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Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.

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C

ComputerMKII

Banned
Funky Papa said:
I was about to post that link.

Russian counterterrorist tactics can be summed in "IDGAF, LOL".
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This is why the Chechens impress me. Russian troops are some of the meanest, baddest motherfuckers on Earth. They'd kill terrorists and their hostages indiscriminately. Think about it. You do not want to mess with those guys.

Then, there's the Chechens, who actually rebel against them and perpetrate terror attacks. They ain't afraid of anything.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
ComputerMKII said:
This is why the Chechens impress me. Russian troops are some of the meanest, baddest motherfuckers on Earth. They'd kill terrorists and their hostages indiscriminately. Think about it. You do not want to mess with those guys.

Then, there's the Chechens, who actually rebel against them and perpetrate terror attacks. They ain't afraid of anything.
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Well, they are Islamists. They'll get their reward in heaven. That's a powerful motivation, specially when Chechenya is kind of hell on earth for a good chunk of the population.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Picture from second shooting in eastern Paris:

B66HcL0CIAAyD3N.jpg:large
 
C

Chariot

Member
Funky Papa said:
Well, they are Islamists. They'll get their reward in heaven. That's a powerful motivation, specially when Chechenya is kind of hell on earth for a good chunk of the population.
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Yep, that is what makes a lot of religious extremists so dangerous: they don't fear death, on the contrary they embrace it. An enemy that isn't afraid to die is terrible.
 
J

Joni

Member
captainnapalm said:
I see that these two brothers were allowed to travel to and from France to go fight in Syria, while having criminal records and being known to intelligence agencies.
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They don't travel to Syria. They travel to Turkey. They disappear there. We either forbid them to leave the country which we can't, or we try and stop them which can't work all the time.
 
X

Xando

Member
Special forces are probably starting to wear thin. I wonder if they'll get help from the millitary/european neighbors.
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
......dunno what to say really. This is why there is strong anti-immigration feelings in circles around Europe and other Western nations. The minority ruin it for the majority, indicents like these arent the norm but the more people you let in the more chances you have of letting in more radicals. Wonder how this will all pan out after th fact.

Imcidents like this could potentially cause this sort of scenario to occur more often as radicals become bolder and their resolves hardened by the success of idiots like these guys.
 
C

Chariot

Member
Alx said:
It was probably their plan to act at different places simultaneously to add confusion.
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I don't know, it looks more like a desperate struggle to me. Time plays against them as additional special forces get deployed. I really hope there is no bigger plan in the making that required them to get the focus of the europaen forces.
VE3TRO said:
Confirmed to be the brothers or another pair?
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I think the brothers are confirmed.
 
K

Koren

Member
captainnapalm said:
I see that these two brothers were allowed to travel to and from France to go fight in Syria, while having criminal records and being known to intelligence agencies.

How is it that so many European muslims seem to have free reign to get radicalised and travel all over the place, get criminal records, go fight in Middle Eastern wars, return to Europe when they want and get their hands on serious weaponry, all under the noses of Western intelligence, who know who they are?

A similar situation came to light in Australia recently, where Muslims were getting radicalised in networks in Australia, traveling to the Middle East to fight in wars, and returning back to Australia.

I hope these questions get asked.
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That's interesting questions, but as far as I know, it's not the case here, actually.


About your questions, the main issue is that by international law, you can't create a situation where a man doesn't have a nationality anyone. You can put them in jail when they return (and french law allow this... and it's done sometimes, depending on the cases), but they're too many to debrief properly all people coming back or to put them all in jail.

And preventing them to leave is nearly impossible (most take a flight to a perfectly fine country and reach Syria or other war zones from there).

It's really a complex issue, and I fear there's not an easy solution for this.
 
E

E-phonk

Banned
Joni said:
They don't travel to Syria. They travel to Turkey. They disappear there. We either forbid them to leave the country which we can't, or we try and stop them which can't work all the time.
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This. Indeed. It's a very complicated issue.

Mohonky said:
......dunno what to say really. This is why there is strong anti-immigration feelings in circles around Europe and other Western nations. The minority ruin it for the majority, indicents like these arent the norm but the more people you let in the more chances you have of letting in more radicals. Wonder how this will all pan out after th fact.
Click to expand...

These guys were born in france, used to have girlfriends, smoked weed, had a hip hop band etc - they radicalised within the french/european system
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Mohonky said:
......dunno what to say really. This is why there is strong anti-immigration feelings in circles around Europe and other Western nations. The minority ruin it for the majority, indicents like these arent the norm but the more people you let in the more chances you have of letting in more radicals. Wonder how this will all pan out after th fact.

Imcidents like this could potentially cause this sort of scenario to occur more often as radicals become bolder and their resolves hardened by the success of idiots like these guys.
Click to expand...

But what do you do when the terrorists are born in France more than 30 years ago? And probably the only citizenship they have is the French one? How would that be helped by different immigration laws?
 
C

Chariot

Member
abzyshaid said:
what if all this is to distract the police away from the two shooters
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Then it would be a terrible plan. The police won't take the forces that siege the brothers from there to travel back to Paris to get the other man. I guess local police is holding out there until maybe german special forces arrive.
 
X

Xando

Member
Tugatrix said:
Military maybe, other european polices nope there are not those kinds of deals only on military level
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Atleast here in germany we have 2 police departments for hostage rescue/counter terrorism (GSG9 and SEK) and multiple millitary units (KSK). I guess they are already on standby and only waiting for french request.
 
K

Koren

Member
VE3TRO said:
Confirmed to be the brothers or another pair?
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The brothers that did the attack on Charlie Hebdo are surrounded in a building at 50km north-east of Paris.

There was two other guys that use guns in the south of Paris yesterday morning, killing a young policewoman. If I'm not mistaken one has been arrested shortly after, the other one is the one currently in a kosher market *inside* Paris.

And it seems that they're all accointances, coming from the same "cell".

Take everything with a grain of salt, it's a bit difficult to follow.


There was also a jogger hit by automatic fire in another place yesterday, I think, and I don't know if it's related.
 
P

potam

Banned
God the news is so bad, and they seem so unaware.

"I know it's dangerous to speculate about situations like this...but let's do that anyways."
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
France has more than enough GIGN and RAID officials to work this out. German special forces are probably on alert just in case something bigger and unexpected happens.
 
R

Renzoku

Banned
KingSnake said:
But what do you do when the terrorists are born in France more than 30 years ago? And probably the only citizenship they have is the French one? How would that be helped by different immigration laws?
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The problem is Islam. It's the same thread that connects all these shitbags.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
Joni said:
They don't travel to Syria. They travel to Turkey. They disappear there. We either forbid them to leave the country which we can't, or we try and stop them which can't work all the time.
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Well, legislative work was done last year to have the legal means to prevent someone from traveling. But that's a temporary and individual measure that requires due procedure. TBH, we reasonably can't do more without starting to seriously hamper on freedom.

Renzoku said:
The problem is Islam. It's the same thread that connects all these shitbags.
Click to expand...
They're asking for solutions, not a problem.
 
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