• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.

Status
Not open for further replies.

ramuh

Member
No you shouldn't respect those people but would you disrespect those who respect gay people yet hold the same religious belief just because they hold same religious belief. We are referring to respecting nonhateful views not hateful views and tolerating all other views while not respecting them

I think I understand what you are trying to say. I think the line is crossed where we get to the point where we limit our society-at-large acceptance to fit a religious view. There should be respect to one's religious views, but that has a limit. To me that limit is where that religion's beliefs are imposed on the society masses. It's taken forever to deconstruct the Christian fundamentalism's that do impose this kind of belief structure on all (US). I'm saying this as a Christian myself. Allow me to practice religion freely, but I have to respect that criticisms and opposing views are tolerable in the larger society. So are their rights.
 

A6M3

Banned
Im curious about Islam and hope someone can answer a question. How do muslims view homosexuality? Is there any segment of Islam that accepts homosexuals?

I ask because when I see a thread debating Christianity, I always see how people think Christians are vile because of their unwillingness to accept something that's completely natural, which would indicate to me, that if there was some kind of grand deity, that homosexuality was created by this deity.

When I see thrwads about Islam, no one really mentions the views of moderate Muslims in regards to homosexuals. Is it generally more accepted?


Isam is completely against it in fact they will literally kill you in there countries if you are

islam has literally no benefits in society.. just focuses on the destruction against any other religion

maninthemirror doesn't know anything he is talking about.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
I guess I have a different view that if a person holds a belief not harming anyone it should be respect even if you don't hold that belief yourself

You have every right to hold whatever view you want. When you aim to affect the freedom of others in the name of these views is when the problem arises.
 

Alucrid

Banned
Wtf are you talking about. 90% don't act sexually as US police will arrest people for indecent exposure, are you opposed to that arrest too ? By public I meant PUBLIC in the view of everyone

Firstly, it's a direct quote from you. Secondly, that's some weird statistic to pull from your ass. Thirdly, "homosexual acts" doesn't equate to "fucking in public." So I find the idea that we should respect people who "respect" gays...to a point, ridiculous. I don't give that leeway to any denomination and I don't see how you can say it's not hate.
 
I'm against the death penalty FYI.

But this is stupid statement that has nothing to do with the reaction to this event. The US and European responses in the immediate aftermath were pretty much the same. solidarity with the victims, as it is in pretty much every country on earth.

Ok whatever man. I commented on a guy who's stayed virtuous even through a terrible event. I think it's admirable and wish more Americans were against the death penalty and reacted like him.
 
I think I understand what you are trying to say. I think the line is crossed where we get to the point where we limit our society-at-large acceptance to fit a religious view. There should be respect to one's religious views, but that has a limit. To me that limit is where that religion's beliefs are imposed on the society masses. It's taken forever to deconstruct the Christian fundamentalism's that do impose this kind of belief structure on all (US). I'm saying this as a Christian myself. Allow me to practice religion freely, but I have to respect that criticisms and opposing views are tolerable in the larger society. So are there rights.

Let people practice their faith and not practice anything and have have meaningful discussions between differences rather than try to convert the other into their view. Indeed the deeds of individuals would be the factor if anyone does want to change their views because they are impressed by how a person lives in a good way on both sides
 
Firstly, it's a direct quote from you. Secondly, that's some weird statistic to pull from your ass. Thirdly, "homosexual acts" doesn't equate to "fucking in public." So I find the idea that we should respect people who "respect" gays...to a point, ridiculous. I don't give that leeway to any denomination and I don't see how you can say it's not hate.

Islam views homosexual acts as sexual acts not holding hands or kissing in public which might be a cultural taboo but if you want to know what religion thinks an act is, it's sexual acts
 
I guess I have a different view that if a person holds a belief not harming anyone it should be respect even if you don't hold that belief yourself

There isn't only physical harm, but mental harm too. A lot of religious people harm their LGBT children to the point of suicide, it's a huge problem. Respecting someone just because they don't harm others physically is not enough.
 

A6M3

Banned
Islam views homosexual acts as sexual acts not holding hands or kissing in public which might be a cultural taboo but if you want to know what religion thinks an act is, it's sexual acts

that literally is the biggest bs i have heard, they will literally kill you in other Islamic countries for being gay and not even touching each other
 
There isn't only physical harm, but mental harm too. A lot of religious people harm their LGBT children to the point of suicide, it's a huge problem. Respecting someone just because they don't harm others physically is not enough.

Read my main post, I specifically mention no actions or acts that hurt a person which I assumed you should have read it as both mentally and physically
 
That's not how this works.

This is why I hate less I guess :p

Love for All, Hatred for None

The French muslims can easily live with their non muslims when muslims calm down and reform the radicalists and non muslims counter with the respect they already show in many cases and even more
 

Next

Member
that literally is the biggest bs i have heard, they will literally kill you in other Islamic countries for being gay and not even touching each other

not the true islam brah, the true islam only thinks it's unnatural and that dick and ass don't fit well together.
 
201501071154402.jpeg

This morning caricature of 24.ae an Arabic online news site.
 

ramuh

Member
Let people practice their faith and not practice anything and have have meaningful discussions between differences rather than try to convert the other into their view. Indeed the deeds of individuals would be the factor if anyone does want to change their views because they are impressed by how a person lives in a good way on both sides

True. I agree totally. If you view the virtuous life that other's live and want to partake, then convert. Isn't that basis of Islam (how it originally started)? Or many other religions? The problem that I see if that a large swath of Islam countries don't accept the same freedoms that most Western countries do. To me that is societal issue that can lead to tragedies like today. Why does a group of crazy Islamist terrorist think it's both rational and justified to attack a group of innocents purely based on some cartoons? Are they in Riyadh or Mosul drawing these cartoons and posting them? No. They are not. I think we have to get to the question and answer of what drives these fractured elements to decide to attack a target that is in a Western country that does fully respect freedom of press, etc.
 

A6M3

Banned
not the true islam brah, the true islam only thinks it's unnatural and that dick and ass don't fit well together.

it is true, look at the facts.... look online.... go there see for yourself, read the koran if you have to,. if they dont kill them they will at least beat them up...
 
This is why I hate less I guess :p

Love for All, Hatred for None

it's good that you feel this way, but unfortunately, other muslim majority countries do not, which leads me to believe that if any country has a muslim majority, it will surely make laws that punishes either apostates or gay people.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
not the true islam brah, the true islam only thinks it's unnatural and that dick and ass don't fit well together.

To be fair to Islam, it's not like Christianity's better in that regard. It's the individuals that make the difference in how we view same sex couples in the U.S. and Europe; not the religion itself which is incredibly intolerant. Being anti-gay is not exclusive to Islam. See Uganda's anti-homosexuality act.
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
I think the Pendulum could use a nice comeback for these fuckers. I have never seen one in action, and who could be more deserving?

Not only did they murder a bunch of people, but they also perpetuated anger towards Moslems around the world.
 

A6M3

Banned
not the true islam brah, the true islam only thinks it's unnatural and that dick and ass don't fit well together.

ive posted this before a while back but here, try to tell me how in hell you can tell me this is peaceful or forgiving...

here are a few, i have a lot more if you like. if you want exact verses of each thing i said let me know, but there are a lot of them in here. remember there are a lot more
dont tell me about interpretations either, there is only so far you can play that card. i did not google these i have saved this on my PC a long time ago

tell me how can you explain these please , please enlighten me.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah..."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.




Islamic Teachings on sex with infants:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"



Islamic Teachings on sex with animals:

"The meat of horses, mules, or donkeys is not recommended. It is strictly forbidden if the animal was sodomized while alive by a man. In that case, the animal must be taken outside the city and sold."

Editor's notes: I wonder if it is OK to sodomize a dead animal? What happens if the buyer brings the poor animal back into the city?

"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."

Editor's note: The poor animal first is sodomized and then killed and burned. What an Islamic justice towards animals? Where are the animal
rights group?

"It is forbidden to consume the excrement of animals or their nasal secretions. But if such are mixed in minute proportions into other foods their consumption is not forbidden."

"If a man (God protect him from it!) fornicates with an animal and ejaculates, ablution is necessary."

Editor's note: It does not say who should have ablution: the animal or the man?

"A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
One of the gunmen has surrendered (Hamyd Mourad). The other two, Cherif Kouachi and Said Kouachi, are on the run.


The police source said Cherif Kouachi had previously been tried on terrorism charges and served 18 months in prison.

He was charged with criminal association related to a terrorist enterprise in 2005. He had been part of an Islamist cell that enlisted French nationals from a mosque in eastern Paris to go to Iraq to fight Americans in Iraq. He was arrested before leaving for Iraq to join militants.

The police source said one of them had been identified by his identity card, which had been left in the getaway car. (most likely Mourad)

No one needs to apologize for the actions of crazed individuals because that is ludicrous, but since "no Muslim condemns these attacks" always is posted by the uneducated:

Dalil Boubakeur, head of the French Council of the Muslim faith (CFCM), condemned an "immensely barbaric act also against democracy and freedom of the press" and said its perpetrators could not claim to be true Muslims.

Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Sunni Islam's leading centre of learning, called the attack "criminal" and said "Islam denounces any violence".

The Arab League also condemned the attack.


So there you go. Stop posting such idiotic statements.

Source:

Reuters
BBC
 

skybald

Member
it is true, look at the facts.... look online.... go there see for yourself, read the koran if you have to,. if they dont kill them they will at least beat them up...

The Old Testament has similar statements and yet most Christians and Jews do not beat up gays. Islamic violence against gays has more to do work the liberalization of Islam being behind that of the other Abrahamic religions
 
Any new news about the other 2 terrorists? Or is the manhunt still ongoing?

Still ongoing.

Latest info is 18 year old turned himself in but there is confusion as to whether he was actually involved or his ID was left behind in the first getaway vehicle as a false lead for investigators. Some of his classmates have sworn that he was in class with them at the time of the attack. No official word as of yet.
 
To be fair to Islam, it's not like Christianity's better in that regard. It's the individuals that make the difference in how we view same sex couples in the U.S. and Europe; not the religion itself which is incredibly intolerant. Being anti-gay is not exclusive to Islam. See Uganda's anti-homosexuality act.

All Abrahamic religions are homophobic, but I feel it's often forgotten and swept under the rug when people are discussing islam.
 
One of the gunmen has surrendered (Hamyd Mourad). The other two, Cherif Kouachi and Said Kouachi, are on the run.


The police source said Cherif Kouachi had previously been tried on terrorism charges and served 18 months in prison.

He was charged with criminal association related to a terrorist enterprise in 2005. He had been part of an Islamist cell that enlisted French nationals from a mosque in eastern Paris to go to Iraq to fight Americans in Iraq. He was arrested before leaving for Iraq to join militants.



The police source said one of them had been identified by his identity card, which had been left in the getaway car.



Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Sunni Islam's leading centre of learning, called the attack "criminal" and said "Islam denounces any violence".

The Arab League also condemned the attack.


Source:
reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0KG0Y120150108?irpc=932@AA@[Reuters]

If he has had a history of terrorism, why wasn't anyone keeping an eye on him after he was released from prison? WTF?
 

A6M3

Banned
The Old Testament has similar statements and yet most Christians and Jews do not beat up gays. Islamic violence against gays has more to do work the liberalization of Islam being behind that of the other Abrahamic religions

no.... the old testament was before Christ came so those rules don't apply to us fully anymore easy way to explain... yes we still follow it unless it says otherwise in new testament... you have to realize before Christ times it was barbaric living styles. it was there to set a law, like a base. then in new testaments all of them changed to our time, so to say. that is why all (real) Christians don't kill, and the people that are evil and kill never kill in Jesus's name or what ever, they are far from God and are either just plain crazy or stupid and evil af.
 

ramuh

Member
All Abrahamic religions are homophobic, but I feel it's often forgotten and swept under the rug when people are discussing islam.

I don't think it's forgotten or swept under the rug. By looking at countries that have a majority of Abrahamic religion believers in their country, who accepts gays by law and deed (of any degree)? I don't think most or any Islam-majority countries do.
 

skybald

Member
ive posted this before a while back but here, try to tell me how in hell you can tell me this is peaceful or forgiving...

here are a few, i have a lot more if you like. if you want exact verses of each thing i said let me know, but there are a lot of them in here. remember there are a lot more
dont tell me about interpretations either, there is only so far you can play that card. i did not google these i have saved this on my PC a long time ago

tell me how can you explain these please , please enlighten me.



Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah..."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.




Islamic Teachings on sex with infants:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"



Islamic Teachings on sex with animals:

"The meat of horses, mules, or donkeys is not recommended. It is strictly forbidden if the animal was sodomized while alive by a man. In that case, the animal must be taken outside the city and sold."

Editor's notes: I wonder if it is OK to sodomize a dead animal? What happens if the buyer brings the poor animal back into the city?

"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."

Editor's note: The poor animal first is sodomized and then killed and burned. What an Islamic justice towards animals? Where are the animal
rights group?

"It is forbidden to consume the excrement of animals or their nasal secretions. But if such are mixed in minute proportions into other foods their consumption is not forbidden."

"If a man (God protect him from it!) fornicates with an animal and ejaculates, ablution is necessary."

Editor's note: It does not say who should have ablution: the animal or the man?

"A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."
Cool, you know how to read. Now apply some textual criticism and historical context. These passages weren't written in a vacuum, as yours quotes.make it seem
 
Still ongoing.

Latest info is 18 year old turned himself in but there is confusion as to whether he was actually involved or his ID was left behind in the first getaway vehicle as a false lead for investigators. Some of his classmates have sworn that he was in class with them at the time of the attack. No official word as of yet.

Ah gotcha. I've been avoiding all the video, but just saw two gunmen on CNN going into a black sedan. I initially assumed there was a whole bunch of them, cant believe 2 people can cause so much carnage.
 

Next

Member
I don't think it's forgotten or swept under the rug. By looking at countries that have a majority of Abrahamic religion believers in their country, who accepts gays by law and deed (of any degree)? I don't think most or any Islam-majority countries do.

and which throw them off of a roof?
 

A6M3

Banned
Cool, you know how to read. Now apply some textual criticism and historical context. These passages weren't written in a vacuum, as yours quotes.make it seem

yes no problem,

(any, they pretty much all full of these verses) The Koran


and Ayatollah Khomeini teachings
 

yogloo

Member
Islam views man and women as naturally created to procreate and spread and the only way you can per Islam is by getting married and then having children and if you cannot have children then it's unfortunate but the focus should turn on extra loving between the couples as they cannot bear children.

Islam also views that naturally a man has an organ which fits into a female organ whose primary purpose besides peeing is a way to procreate, you know like a female and male connector in electronics, a logical connection

While islam does say that due to homosexuals not being able to procreate and as opposed to above, it views the act of homosexuality as Un natural thus if the end is just for sexual pleasure and never for bearing children through sex, then it views it as wrong, if a homosexual has a predisposition to be homosexual then it is likely something he or she cannot control due to their predisposition and thus you cannot hurt or harm homosexuals or be prejudiced against or act or take actions which harm or hurt homosexuals due to islams willingness to be kind to everyone. Just don't perform homosexual acts in public as that equates to adultery sex in public

What are your opinion on the hadith that prescribes death as the punishment of homosexuality?

Ibn al-Jawzi records Muhammad as cursing sodomites in several hadith, and recommending the death penalty for both the active and passive partners in same-sex acts.[23]

Sunan al-Tirmidhi, compiling his work two centuries after the death of Muhammad, wrote that Muhammad had prescribed the death penalty for both the active and the passive partner: "Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut (Lot), kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done."[1] The overall moral or theological principle is that a person who performs such actions (luti) challenges the harmony of God's creation, and is therefore a revolt against God.[17]

Al-Nuwayri in his Nihaya reports that Muhammad is alleged to have said what he feared most for his community were the practices of the people of Lot (although he seems to have expressed the same idea in regard to wine and female seduction).[22]

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
 

23qwerty

Member
Isam is completely against it in fact they will literally kill you in there countries if you are

islam has literally no benefits in society.. just focuses on the destruction against any other religion

maninthemirror doesn't know anything he is talking about.

c9a.png
 

marrec

Banned
I see. Thanks.
It's even better because it perfectly illustrates that a few are forcing the vast majority to remain trapped behind archaic and outdated political modalities. Islam can't move forward into the 21st century because of these few but also seem to be blissfully unaware.
 

Diablos

Member
RIP to the victims and their families.

While some of those comics were no doubt provoking to a radical group of people known to behave violently in the name of their cause, there's still absolutely no justification for that attacks that took place.

Frankly, the mere discussion of said comics and the artists that created them on the Internet will ensure their criticism of Islamic fundamentalism will never go away. We live in an age where shooting up an office or whatever somewhere isn't going to drown out someone's voice. If anything you make it stronger.
 

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Cool, you know how to read. Now apply some textual criticism and historical context. These passages weren't written in a vacuum, as yours quotes.make it seem

The Constitution and Magna Carta were written with historical and political context.

The Quran was written as a Religious book by Mohammed and his followers.

There is no wiggle room in believing in the Quran or not. Either you believe in the "teachings" of Mohammed and the Quran or you don't.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom