NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Efficiency and not wasting money are a bad thing now? And doing it efficiently is “getting away with it”? Wow.
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TGG Studio (Yakuza) says they are surprised more studios don't reuse assets to release games faster
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I'm sure a lot of publishers would but it seems largely unique to them because of the carefree nature of the Yakuza world where anything goes and it's neverending saga.
I think a middleground is best (FromSoft, Atlus games, FF7 Rebirth to name some):
-reuse roughly the same tech but just update it
-evolve some of the systems created in a previous game
-carry over old assets/models and improve them
-retain the development team/structure between entries
-don't make games that are pristine where every detail is AAAA and using lots of pointless RT for the sake of it
-outsource the grunt work but keep a lot of it in-house for QC especially artistic decisions
I think a middleground is best (FromSoft, Atlus games, FF7 Rebirth to name some):
-reuse roughly the same tech but just update it
-evolve some of the systems created in a previous game
-carry over old assets/models and improve them
-retain the development team/structure between entries
-don't make games that are pristine where every detail is AAAA and using lots of pointless RT for the sake of it
-outsource the grunt work but keep a lot of it in-house for QC especially artistic decisions
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Johnny Holiday
Banned
This is why if you've played one Yakuza game, you've played them all.
FeralEcho
Member
In a perfect world yeah.well...the idea is that by reused asset, lot of development time would be reduced and the extra additional time gained from it would be poured into optimization instead (hopefully)
Yukuza reusing city: "wow you so smart"
Kratos boards boat the same way: "this is DLC bro"
tomato shrub
Member
I def want more developers to make more standalone DLC or cut DLC and make midquels. Bring back Majora's Mask style experimental titles based on old assets.
Kumomeme
Member
also with Remake, lot of staff is come from KH3 which is most of them already used to UE4. this cut a lot of learning time for the engine. also since the engine was widely used, it also something was already familliar with outside developers.I'm sure a lot of publishers would but it seems largely unique to them because of the carefree nature of the Yakuza world where anything goes and it's neverending saga.
I think a middleground is best (FromSoft, Atlus games, FF7 Rebirth to name some):
-reuse roughly the same tech but just update it
-evolve some of the systems created in a previous game
-carry over old assets/models and improve them
-retain the development team/structure between entries
-don't make games that are pristine where every detail is AAAA and using lots of pointless RT for the sake of it
-outsource the grunt work but keep a lot of it in-house for QC especially artistic decisions
compared to Crystal Tools fiasco with FF13 and XIV 1.0, they definitely learn alot(in hard way) and applied it with FFVII remake development especially since lot of people from FF13 trilogy are involved with it.
there is whole different level of the scale and content they achieved with Rebirth in less than 4 years compared to 5 years of FF13 for example.
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lame gag1990
Member
Their characters, stories, cities and gameplay are so rich, I couldn't care less if they re-use assets here and there. I wouldn't imagine they're huge budget games either.
Fabieter
Member
It's still quality content in like a dragon most of the time. Stories, mini games, side quest are always unique and interesting. Some western games suck with the stuff listed while still reusing everything.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Reading is hard. As ive said i didnt excuse them for reusing so much shit but if it gets worse then yeah no thanks.
Reusing 90% of content from game to game is "efficiency" now? Wow. I thought it's called shameless milking, but I'm not an expert in japanese culture.
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Team Andromeda
Member
It's nice for a few games, but the Yakuza team does it way too much before they look to move to a new location.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Exactly. Ragnarok reuses some animations and gets railed while other games reuse entire maps and are praised for being efficient.
Wild double standards.
Whats wild is that Yukuza reuses both animations and entire maps. They even say so in the article.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Quixel Megascans is a thing so it’s not like all assets are made from scratch anymore.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Spot on really. Only dopes complained that the NY in Spider-Man 2 was "reused", as if they were going to rebuilt New York again from scratch for no reason. Meanwhile Yakuza's been using the same Kamurocho assets for... how long?
And then people are surprised when Insomniac can bang out AAA stuff at the rate they do?
And then people are surprised when Insomniac can bang out AAA stuff at the rate they do?
Well difference is that even reusing the city spiderman still cost like 5 Yakuza games. And took two times more time to develop. If you need 5-6 years and 100s of millions to develop a game which is reused a huge part of content from the previous game then it's a big problem.
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AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
This is where the race to have Hollywood level graphics and animation gets us. Yakuza's always looked and felt like a PS2 game but made in the modern era (and that's a big part of its charm). Spider-Man 2 sure is extremely flashy but it's not as memorable as my time with Y0.
Big Baller
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Thats why I dislike most Yakuza games. The world/cities are a joke.
Comandr
Member
Some extremely polarizing opinions in here.
The Yakuza games mainly take place in a continuous timeline. In fact I don’t know of two games that take place at the same time.
I love coming back to Kamurocho or Sotenbori. I really enjoy seeing how the places have changed over time, see new stuff, run into familiar faces. It really makes the world of Yakuza feel grounded. Like this is an actual world I'm visiting.
Furthermore, considering for most of the games, the story follows one guy through his life, why wouldn’t he be mostly in one place? Kiryu’s had his life uprooted several times and ended up in different cities in plausible ways. I think it’s handled very well.
This is one of the most exciting parts of the games for me. Hell, I’d even love to go back to Onimichi sometime and see the boys.
I think a lot of the silly reused animations are charming. “Haah?!” If you know, you know.
The Yakuza games mainly take place in a continuous timeline. In fact I don’t know of two games that take place at the same time.
I love coming back to Kamurocho or Sotenbori. I really enjoy seeing how the places have changed over time, see new stuff, run into familiar faces. It really makes the world of Yakuza feel grounded. Like this is an actual world I'm visiting.
Furthermore, considering for most of the games, the story follows one guy through his life, why wouldn’t he be mostly in one place? Kiryu’s had his life uprooted several times and ended up in different cities in plausible ways. I think it’s handled very well.
This is one of the most exciting parts of the games for me. Hell, I’d even love to go back to Onimichi sometime and see the boys.
I think a lot of the silly reused animations are charming. “Haah?!” If you know, you know.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
And I wonder the same, then you see manchildren "catch" a single car model in social media the was used for another game and the other ones start calling out devs for triggering an apocalypse.
Imo devs should just reuse as much as possible and eat the complaints, then make these things gets used to assets reuse, since it makes more economical sense.
Imo devs should just reuse as much as possible and eat the complaints, then make these things gets used to assets reuse, since it makes more economical sense.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Well, I have no double standard and can tell you I would really like both to reuse as much as they can't, not that movie productions create every single item they use from zero, they just go shopping
Define "worse" in this case, entire maps, minigames, etc, are lifted from previous games and slightly altered to adjust for the time difference (usually to mark how a place has changed in a year). Games that are set during the same period are pretty much unchanged, this new Pirate game for example seems to have the same Hawaii map as Infinite Money as it's set along side that games events.
Fbh
Member
I'm generally a big supporter of the idea of recycling assets and animations in favor of a faster and cheaper development.
That said, even as a fan, I think the Yakuza franchise has always been too extreme with their recycling and I was pretty close to becoming burned out on it until the much needed change with Yakuza 7. Like one of the reasons I waited several years before playing Judgment was because I was really underwhelmed when I found out it was yet another game set in Kamurocho and it was basically the same gameplay as Yakuza but with a few detective gimmicks (and awful tailing missions).
Neither Gaf nor the gaming audience in general is a hivemind.
The people praising devs like Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio and FROM for their recycling of assets probably aren't the same as the ones whining about Kratos having the same boat boarding animation.
That said, even as a fan, I think the Yakuza franchise has always been too extreme with their recycling and I was pretty close to becoming burned out on it until the much needed change with Yakuza 7. Like one of the reasons I waited several years before playing Judgment was because I was really underwhelmed when I found out it was yet another game set in Kamurocho and it was basically the same gameplay as Yakuza but with a few detective gimmicks (and awful tailing missions).
Neither Gaf nor the gaming audience in general is a hivemind.
The people praising devs like Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio and FROM for their recycling of assets probably aren't the same as the ones whining about Kratos having the same boat boarding animation.
Isa
Member
I agree but disagree lol. On one hand the overall premise is the same, but 1-7 are quite different to me, with 7&8 being wonderfully new in a direction I really love. Not to say the action stuff is bad though.
For me I love the more connected feel the world has in Like a Dragon. Things change over time, meeting familiar and new faces, fun minigames and stories that can both touch and bring to tears or big laughter. The writing is usually great, with very good cutscenes and action which is very satisfying. And I get it, having some assets set already with maybe a few tweaks here and there to factor in time and story changes means more effort can be put into other assets such as story, acting, cutscenes and direction. Also the minigames, some of which are huge side stories in themselves, which arguably could be used in standalone spinoffs.
LordBlodgett
Member
Absolutely agree. It's the stories and the writing in the Yakuza world's that make them so fun. I don't mind them reusing assets at all.
Ponderling
Member
As long as it's done correctly e.g. Majora's Mask.
tommib
Banned
All in with this. It’s also the From Software model. Elden Ring is using animations that go back to Demon’s Souls. So fucking what.
I remember the trolling cry babies when Ragnarok was released and how the “lazy devs” were reusing boat animations.
The Yakuza games have absolutely fantastic narratives in a world that is reused with minor upgrades. If it helps with pumping them out quicker, keep doing it. Give us more Yakuza.
I remember the trolling cry babies when Ragnarok was released and how the “lazy devs” were reusing boat animations.
The Yakuza games have absolutely fantastic narratives in a world that is reused with minor upgrades. If it helps with pumping them out quicker, keep doing it. Give us more Yakuza.
VanCityGamer
Member
Not a fan of the setup. The same location over and over gets very tiresome.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Kamurocho is just as much of a central character as Kiryu or Majima. It's always nice to revisit with new iterations to see the familiar things improved over time and to see how they've expanded it. Thematically it makes sense since you're generally playing as someone whose a well established character in that region.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Because some mothafuckas always trying to ice skate uphill.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Yakuza can’t win game of the year, but I was luckily and fortunate enough to play zero-6.
Soltype
Member
It's good and bad, if you play them in rapid succession you're going to get burnt out but if you play them every couple years it's not too bad. I just hope they can flesh out the cities at this point, they laid the groundwork, just make them more dense and I'll be happy.
That's certainly something they've done, including with the Judgement games, this isn't like GTA where majority of the buildings are just outside boxes, I've seen Sotenbori go from more of a dive district to a flashy district, apartment blocks come and go, interiors for various buildings, rooftop access, etc. If we include 0 then we've seen an entire part of the city go from a slum district to a skyscraper, we've seen a park land area once overrun with the homeless gangs flattened, turned into a construction site and eventually completed into a high rise flashy commercial block.
It's smart to reuse, even with the Spider-Man games, how much has New York changed in two years? It makes sense to reuse the majority of it and touch up any areas you want to improve and then alter things for story purpose.
ReyBrujo
Member
Soltype
Member
Yeah they definitely been adding over the years, I recently played through the series again and sometimes you forget how much they've added over the years. I honestly don't mind them reusing the same cities if it means I get to go into every building someday.
CityHunter1981
Member
Reusing assets is totally fine as long as they use the saved time and money to work on new stuff. I mean look at Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, they could reuse a lot of stuff, but used the time to create tons of new content.
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