It's women's tennis, everyone could win a slam. Well, if Serena let's them.
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The 2016 Australian Open |OT| 18th January - 31st January
- Thread starter LuuKyK
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It's women's tennis, everyone could win a slam. Well, if Serena let's them.
Kotetsu534
Member
Nasty stuff here. Radwanska did not luck her way into being a top 10 player for years despite being physically inferior. Her record is comparable to a male player like Berdych or Ferrer (i.e. bad records against the elite players, several deep runs in Slams including at least one RU, consistently near the top of the rankings, some lesser titles when the draw breaks for them, outside chance at a Slam, tons of respect from their peers), but funnily nobody accuses them of luck. Sure she got lucky today (which she acknowledged afterwards) because her opponent's fitness gave out, but using that to attack her entire career is plain nasty (and probably sexist too).
lol God no
You want even more brainless bashers?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm still not entirely sure how Goffin sneaked into the top 16. He's horrendously overranked, shouldn't even really be inside the top 20. It's not quite Monaco levels of WTF are you doing there, but close.
I can't take another Russian wave of heavy hitters. We need more Agas, more Kerbers, more Navarros. People with defensive skills.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Kerber and Aga, yes, Navarro, no. Aga and Kerber are intelligent defense (well, Kerber mostly), Navarro is just a physical wall.
I like the angles she can produce + she knows when to get to the net.
Radwanska got lucky winning all of her 18 titles, no skill was required for that.
Frankly I sometimes have the same thought about some guys on the ATP Tour. In general it's admitted that you can play good tennis without being a total physical freak, but I sometimes wonder if some players from both tours wouldn't benefit from serious conditionning/weight lifting programs. A guy like Murray, for example, did a really solid work a few years ago and it made him a better player overall. The difficulty is that every hour spent in the gym is not a tennis hour, and every other activity present risks of injury/fatigue, which can affect the rankings.
Also I still don't get people talking about "overranked" players, players not deserving their "lucky" achievements, while talking about guys and girls in the top 10, 20. Watching only the elite 24/7 is making a lot of people a disservice, because they don't realize these very players would beat everybody else on the planet 6-0 6-0 without even trying. There can be big differences between players even at the top, but it's not enough to say the guys who lose are bad. It's far from that.
tycoonheart
Member
Murray comparuaion is accurate I'd say.
There was no reason for that match to go 5 sets. Wayyy too many unforced errors from Novak. Simon wasn't doing anything but trying to keep the ball in play.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think the lower down the rankings you go, the smaller the points gap between ranks, the higher the likelihood that a good run where a top guy falls out early pushes your ranking up in a way that does not reflect your skill level. I'm not going to say Goffin is a bad player - pretty obviously not, anyone in the top 100 is objectively good at tennis by any metric - but I feel pretty comfortable saying he has no business in the top 16. His largest batch of points (320) is from the Davis Cup, where Belgium had, let's be honest, an incredibly lucky run from the perspective of Goffin where lots of strong singles player were eliminated because of doubles losses. He has 75 points alone from beating Edmund, who wasn't even in the top 100 at the time. Sans Davis Cup he would be outside the top 20, which is a more accurate reflection of where his play is.
Well he was in the 4th round of the AO right now, that's the 16 best players during this tournament, no ? And to get there he defeated the 20th player in the world. You get the points where you can, that's part of the game.
You can try and adapt the reasoning to almost every player. Raonic 14th ? Overranked : he only has his serve, he doesn't know how to play, he just bahes the ball and hopes for a winner. Simon 15th ? He's a poor-man's Murray, he just pushes the ball. Boring matches, no power, etc. Paire, 19th ? He has no mental, he just lost to the 300th player in the world ! Bautista Agut 21th ? Where's the last time he defeated someone above his ranking (outside of Cilic who is overranked too !) ? I could go on. Goffin is maybe not the most exciting or physical player in the top 20, but he won matches to get these points. He didn't get them by mistake.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, you're exaggerating. Raonic is underranked and is going to rise, Simon is probably ranked correctly, Paire probably is overranked and will probably fall, Bautista Agut is probably ranked correctly. Those are all sensible and meaningful statements to make.
Yes, Goffin won matches to get these points... but he has 75 points from beating Edmund alone, and 360 (slam QF-worth) from beating menagerie of rather poor players. The players he had to win get these points were, on average, a lot worse than the players similarly ranked people had to beat to get their points. That's what it means to say someone is underranked. It's just nonsense to say that people can't get lucky draws from time to time - remember Janowicz in Wimbledon semifinal after beating Kubot?
Let me put it another way: I feel pretty confident that Goffin's rank is to going down, not up, this year, and not because he's playing worse, but because his play would not merit his current ranking under ordinary circumstances in the first place. I'm not calling him out because I don't like his style of play - I'm not exactly keen on Ferrer's but god does he deserve his ranking - I'm calling him out because he is noticeably weak compared to the other players ranked in his immediate vicinity.
You should begin to know me enough to guess that I was exaggerating voluntarily to show that you can adapt this kind of reasoning to other players, I just wrote what I often read in the thread (and what I often disagree with
). To me, even if usually I'm not even thinking about it, you have the ranking you have. It's not written in stone, it's constantly changing, but if you manage to be at a certain place during several months, it means something. Maybe Goffin will go down, but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be there.
Goffin was 14th in the world in july 2015, so just after one Davis Cup match, if I calculate correctly, another thing to think about. I guess I can agree with you on the fact that he maybe hasn't the game to be a top 15-20 during a whole career, but he definitely can peak at this level for a time. And it wouldn't be undeserved.
Also, while we're arguing over Goffin (lol) :
https://twitter.com/traread/status/690790023629697026
YoshiStrife
Member
Well, caught the last game of 2nd set and all of 3rd set because Eurosport is too fucking shit to screen the full Aga v Friedsam match. Fuck you, Eurosport.
My heart was going all through that final set, but always felt Aga was still in it at 5-2 down. Was a huge shame to see the cramp kick in for Friedsam, but fair do's to her valiant effort.
It's still painful to watch Aga's weak 2nd serve get punished so often, and I wish she could up that side of her game. Since her 1st serve has dramatically improved of late, I hope she will start to up her 2nd serve at some point in the near future.
Totally disagree with the comments against Aga's game. Yes, I'm a fan, but it's refreshing and inspiring to see such crafty and beautiful tennis being played from a naturally small body frame in an era of hard hitters (which I find more and more frustratingly boring), and still managing to compete with the best of them. She hasn't fluked her way to her 18 career titles with this style of play, and it's testament to her that she has the mental strength to stay right up there, despite the physical disadvantages she possesses. It's a joy to see the power players being taken for a ride, running around on Aga's leash, outwitted and goaded into UEs. No, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it works, it's wonderful. Few players have the concentration, energy and ingenuity Aga has, and it's lovely to see this style of tennis still up there at the highest levels of the game.
I still believe it's possible for Aga to get a GS, but even if she doesn't, at least she's done everything she could with the tools she has at her disposal. She can't transform herself into a power player, but I'm glad she's there doing something out of the norm in today's game and providing entertaining tennis (even if that means topsy-turvy matches).
Into the QFs!
My heart was going all through that final set, but always felt Aga was still in it at 5-2 down. Was a huge shame to see the cramp kick in for Friedsam, but fair do's to her valiant effort.
It's still painful to watch Aga's weak 2nd serve get punished so often, and I wish she could up that side of her game. Since her 1st serve has dramatically improved of late, I hope she will start to up her 2nd serve at some point in the near future.
Totally disagree with the comments against Aga's game. Yes, I'm a fan, but it's refreshing and inspiring to see such crafty and beautiful tennis being played from a naturally small body frame in an era of hard hitters (which I find more and more frustratingly boring), and still managing to compete with the best of them. She hasn't fluked her way to her 18 career titles with this style of play, and it's testament to her that she has the mental strength to stay right up there, despite the physical disadvantages she possesses. It's a joy to see the power players being taken for a ride, running around on Aga's leash, outwitted and goaded into UEs. No, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it works, it's wonderful. Few players have the concentration, energy and ingenuity Aga has, and it's lovely to see this style of tennis still up there at the highest levels of the game.
I still believe it's possible for Aga to get a GS, but even if she doesn't, at least she's done everything she could with the tools she has at her disposal. She can't transform herself into a power player, but I'm glad she's there doing something out of the norm in today's game and providing entertaining tennis (even if that means topsy-turvy matches).
Into the QFs!
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Tomic is going to get humiliated tonight. He has absolutely nothing to hurt Murray with. These Australian millenials spend so much time talking trash as they watch their natural resources get pillaged by China.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think he might take a set in a tiebreak or 7-5 or some such. Tomic's serve has been steadily improving. He could probably break inside the very bottom of the top ten if he sorted his woeful fitness out; it's embarrassing for a professional athlete.
That pic of Kyrgios.
Thats just as he walked onto the court.
Not excusing the behaviour but yeah its not as bad as they're making it out to be.
I can see Australia is going to have a very Andy Murray relationship with Kyrgios.
Shit even Djokovic copped it from the Australian crowd until he was winning all the time.
Thats just as he walked onto the court.
Not excusing the behaviour but yeah its not as bad as they're making it out to be.
I can see Australia is going to have a very Andy Murray relationship with Kyrgios.
Shit even Djokovic copped it from the Australian crowd until he was winning all the time.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I really wish he was better, I love flat ball hitters. His second serve is also awful.
I think Raonic has a decent chance to get past WaWa tonight since Stan's RoS is a big weakness.
Back in 2011, Simon took Federer to 5 sets, too.
Simon, Murray, Monfils, and every other pusher turns their opponents' games to complete shit 99% of the time. It's just what they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w55PGD6JqUM
Where did this backhand suddenly come from, holy shit
Dude was absolutely merciless throughout the whole match
Where did this backhand suddenly come from, holy shit
Dude was absolutely merciless throughout the whole match
perfectchaos007
Member
Azarenka really likes the NFL apparently. Especially the Broncos and the Carolina Panthers
YoshiStrife
Member
Hopefully Kerber does the miraculous and stuffs her.
perfectchaos007
Member
Raonic playing well so far. Lets see if he can keep it up
BigJonsson
Member
He is the man on fire
Gotdatmoney
Member
Raonic's net game has improved a lot since his earlier days. Doesn't look so lost and unsure.
Sax Russel
Banned
This is the greatest thing I've seen all day.
BigJonsson
Member
lol ballhead
BigJonsson
Member
Oh man
He's playing a hell of a match. Assuming he moves on, wonder how far he can go. He's 0-2 against Monfils, but actually has a decent head to head against Murray (tied at 3 all). Would be pretty nuts if he made the final.
Ooh, just got a little interesting.
perfectchaos007
Member
Momentum all with Wawrinka now. I think Wawrinka is going to come back and pull this out.
BigJonsson
Member
Old Raonic is showing
perfectchaos007
Member
Raonic checking out. Stan is probably taking this 5th set
Yeah, this is just not the right trend for himStan's adjusted his play to offset Milos' adjusted game plan, and Milos is making too many errors when he slips into the old game plan as points grow longer. I expect the fifth to be a fairly quick affair.
Disappointing given how strong he started and how long he stuck out in the third (that 11th game was just plan unfortunate), but in the grand scheme of things: injuries last season created a rankings deficit that brought a tough fourth round challenge, and he's played well overall. Nothing to be ashamed of, all disappointments aside.
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