The Bureau: XCOM Declassified is not a standard TPS. You should be excited

F

FloatOn

Member
It still seems like there is quite a bit of confusion on what this game is. Which is understandable from this game's insane development cycle.

On first glance it seems like this game is just another third person shooter set in the XCOM universe. It is not that.

I wasn't entirely sold on this game either until I took 30 minutes to watch the giant bomb feature on it where they sat down with the developers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEh6NnLPUUs

This video is worth your time. If you don't have the time though, let me break it down for you:

- You play as the squad leader. What this means is that you are able to give full detailed commands to your squad mates in battle. From taking cover, to shooting particular enemies or moving to a specific spot on the map. They are fully under your command. The orders you give have just as much weight on the battle field as they do on the turn based strategy version of the game it's just that they play out in real time and with free aiming.

- Permadeath is still in. If your squad mates die they are gone for good and you have to hire out new members. If the squad leader dies it is game over. This idea of permadeath reinforces the idea of tactical play. If you go all run and gun you will die very quickly and those deaths will matter to you.

- There is a pre-XCOM base that acts as a hub. This is where you will interact with NPCs for story elements, view the memorial, select your missions and customize your squad.

- Yes, there is full squad customization. From the way they look to what perks they have as they rank up through gained experience on the battlefield.

- Side missions. Should your squad mates die (and they will) there are smaller side missions, similar to what exists in XCOM proper that serve as a chance for you to rank up your squad again. There are a limited number of these so you are not able to grind it out indefinitely

This all is explained much better in video and it's pretty amazing to see it in motion. So again, watch the quick look.

Put aside any bad feelings from the YOLO trailer and come at this game with an open mind and I think you will be very pleasantly surprised.
 
Yes! I are excite

I've always liked the idea of a proto-XCOM and now that this game has its version of Classic Mode, I will definitely pick this up
 
Magic Mushroom said:
Mass Effect is just you basically spamming powers. This has a lot moe emphasis on squad movement. That and the permadeath adds quiote a bit of tension.
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Sorry to be a downer, but I feel the need to manage expectations on this one. From a previous thread on this game:

Remachinate said:
Based on what? They keep repeating the "tactical action" mantra but they haven't really demonstrated how decision-making really factors into the gameplay.

I just can't get over the fact that the XCOM branding for this game seems to be all about checking boxes rather than capturing the essence of what makes the franchise great. There's agent permadeath, but no opportunity for emergent narrative that makes those deaths impactful. There's research progression, but because you don't direct it there are no meaningful decisions about what to prioritize with your limited resources. There's a technologically advanced enemy, but there's no feeling the odds are against you because three guys in business casual can ability spam their way through hordes of them. And so on. At least in the original version, they recognized that the feeling of tension and the sense of the unknown was what make XCOM engaging, and tried to deliver that via the first-person exploration elements.

I want to like this game, because 2K Marin is at least trying to to make a shooter with more interesting mechanics, but this Mass Effect-clone isn't doing it for me. Maybe the secondary missions we've seen in these previews aren't representative of the depth of the game as a whole, but right now they're not doing a great job of selling it to me.
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I think the "tactical" aspect of this game is greatly oversold. Based on everything I've seen, there's no additional cost to using abilities beyond the cooldown, so what reason is there to *not* spam them? The individual abilities don't even matter, as the designer admitted in one of the videos that there's no "wrong" spec or squad comp for missions. There's more complexity in terms of management than a standard shooter, but I don't know if that necessarily makes the decisions interesting or important, and the lack of larger strategic decisions is troublesome.

I'm not trying to say this will be a bad game, just that people need to expect it to be closer to Mass Effect: The 60s than XCOM: The TPS.
 
Magic Mushroom said:
Mass Effect is just you basically spamming powers. This has a lot moe emphasis on squad movement. That and the permadeath adds quiote a bit of tension.
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Now THAT is soemthing I can get behind ;)

But seriously, I think the game is still getting burned by the whole Xcom in Name Only thing. I'm sure its going to be a pretty fun game, it's a great time and setting that isn't used nearly often enough in video games and I'm sure that they'll pull it off.
 
Fezan said:
So game will be like mass effect just in xcom universe ?
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From all the videos I've seen of this game, there is WAYYY more pausing and issuing orders in this game than there's ever been in Mass Effect.

I'll check this game out just because I love Xcom, but I have a heavy feeling that most who play it (aka Xcom fans--don't see anyone else really interested in this atm) will end up just wanting to play regular Xcom instead.
 
Remachinate said:
Sorry to be a downer, but I feel the need to manage expectations on this one. From a previous thread on this game:

I think the "tactical" aspect of this game is greatly oversold. Based on everything I've seen, there's no additional cost to using abilities beyond the cooldown, so what reason is there to *not* spam them? The individual abilities don't even matter, as the designer admitted in one of the videos that there's no "wrong" spec or squad comp for missions. There's more complexity in terms of management than a standard shooter, but I don't know if that necessarily makes the decisions interesting or important, and the lack of larger strategic decisions is troublesome.

I'm not trying to say this will be a bad game, just that people need to expect it to be closer to Mass Effect: The 60s than XCOM: The TPS.
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I think the statement of "no wrong spec" is only to encourage experimentation. It seems as though you can customize your squad with a variety of perks so I think I will enjoy the freedom in picking what abilities I find most useful.

As for spamming abilities this is all really dependent on what those abilities are and how effective they may or may not against certain enemies.

The tactical angle they are pushing is largely rooted in the permadeath nature of squad management. It seems you will need to be careful when playing this game just as you are careful in playing the turn based strategy game. This isn't Mass Effect where if your squad dies you just restart the mission with your fully leveled guys again, there is consequence to the mistakes you make.
 
I have zero interest in it in large part because of the settings and time period. This isn't Xcom, it's a poorly conceived retcon. I suspect it'll be a disaster as much as I hate to say it because I really like 2K Marin.
 
Oh I am so excited. I was worried that it would look terrible after all the changing during development, (from FPS to TPS and all that) but it actually looks great.
 
I'd even buy Mario if Mario was fighting Mutons and Sectoids with a laser rifle. So I'd definitely buy this.

It actually does look pretty good. Right now they have only been demoing it on babby difficultly for the press, but I am hoping that the veteran/commander difficulties have a lot of awful spots (read: require resourcefulness) and inevitable permadeath of some squad members.
 
GotchaForce said:
When that GB video first hit I was sold. Wish it had some sorta multiplayer though.
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yeah, it would be kind of cool to have a friend play as one of the squad mates but I think the idea of this game is to make you, the single player, feel like you are the one in control here. The true leader of the cause and all that.
 
I am on the fence. I really like the idea ( the setting, that is ), but I'm not sold on the gameplay yet. I'll probably wait for user impressions and reviews before I make a decision.
 
hwalker84 said:
Just pre-ordered.
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RealityExists said:
I think the statement of "no wrong spec" is only to encourage experimentation. It seems as though you can customize your squad with a variety of perks so I think I will enjoy the freedom in picking what abilities I find most useful.
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Sure, I'm sure I'll enjoy customizing my squad to fit my preferred playstyle, but that's more about personalization than the game requiring a synergic composition.

RealityExists said:
As for spamming abilities this is all really dependent on what those abilities are and how effective they may or may not against certain enemies.
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I don't think it does. Yes, you don't use an armor-removing ability on an enemy with no armor, but I don't think that qualifies as a tactical decision. It'd be much more interesting if abilities had limited uses per run, or using an ability caused an agent to be less effective in other areas. That requires more consideration of the right approach to an engagement than "I'll use all abilities that can affect this enemy".

RealityExists said:
The tactical angle they are pushing is largely rooted in the permadeath nature of squad management. It seems you will need to be careful when playing this game just as you are careful in playing the turn based strategy game. This isn't Mass Effect where if your squad dies you just restart the mission with your fully leveled guys again, there is consequence to the mistakes you make.
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Requiring you to be careful isn't the same as requiring you to be tactical, and I'm not convinced that the game involves more than positioning your guys in cover to keep them from dying while you spam cool abilities.
 
Remachinate said:
Sure, I'm sure I'll enjoy customizing my squad to fit my preferred playstyle, but that's more about personalization than the game requiring a synergic composition.

Yes, you don't use an armor-removing ability on an enemy with no armor, but I don't think that qualifies as a tactical decision. It'd be much more interesting if abilities had limited uses per run, or using an ability caused an agent to be less effective in other areas. That requires more consideration of the right approach to an engagement than "I'll use all abilities that can affect this enemy".

Requiring you to be careful isn't the same as requiring you to be tactical, and I'm not convinced that the game involves more than positioning your guys in cover to keep them from dying while you spam cool abilities.
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This is largely semantics. It seems like your main complaint is that this game isn't as tactical as you would like.

Everything we have seen has been press demos that are meant to look easy. I'm sure on the normal to hard difficulties you will be required to make some pretty tough tactical decisions. Or not. Time will tell on it.

The main purpose of this thread was to clarify that this game isn't a linear A to B third person shooter in a XCOM skin.
 
RealityExists said:
This is largely semantics. It seems like your main complaint is that this game isn't as tactical as you would like.

Everything we have seen has been press demos that are meant to look easy. I'm sure on the normal to hard difficulties you will be required to make some pretty tough tactical decisions. Or not. Time will tell on it.

The main purpose of this thread was to clarify that this game isn't a linear A to B third person shooter in a XCOM skin.
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It's not semantics--being careful is simply not making mistakes in carrying out an approach, while being tactical involves consideration in choosing the right approach.

But you're right, I feel the marketing for this game is misleading. It's been sold as an XCOM game, with an emphasis of supposedly being true to the series mechanically, and my review of the promotional materials has found it wanting from a tactical aspect. It can still be a good game for what it actually is, but people should be aware that may be a lot closer to a Mass Effect shootfest than you are making it out be.

Xater said:
While it looks like they improved the concept a lot I still find it hard to care with a real XCOM existing. I am going to be excited for Enemy Within over there ok?
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Now that's something to be excited for.
 
While it looks like they improved the concept a lot I still find it hard to care with a real XCOM existing. I am going to be excited for Enemy Within over there ok?
 
Xater said:
While it looks like they improved the concept a lot I still find it hard to care with a real XCOM existing. I am going to be excited for Enemy Within over there ok?
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That's fine. I really enjoy Enemy Unknown and anything more in that style of play is certainly welcome but a squad based tactical shooter in an interesting setting is appealing too.

There are not enough games in this particular style as people in this thread are recalling back to Freedom Fighters which is now 10 years old.
 
Xater said:
While it looks like they improved the concept a lot I still find it hard to care with a real XCOM existing. I am going to be excited for Enemy Within over there ok?
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Why? You've no doubt played "real" X-COM already, it's been out for quite some time. Why not be excited for another game in the same universe with similar mechanics? I played an absurd amount of Enemy Unknown and loved every second of it, but I'm far more interested in a tactical third person shooter the likes of which we haven't seen since GRAW.
 
Grimsen said:
This game looks okay, but let's not get crazy here. Enemy Within is going to kick its ass.
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Enemy Within is probably just an expansion, which is cool by me but this is something totally fresh for XCOM and I am behind it 100%

It will be the thinking man's third person shooter. I am totally sure of this.
 
So many stuff coming out in August for PC :( Spelunky, Guacamelee!, Rayman Legends, Castlevania, this... I think I'm going to have to wait for a sale or at least a couple of months or else I'll be in the streets by the end of the month. But this definitely looks like a good game.
 
I couldn't get into XCOM Enemy Unknown because my PS3 glitched out on the mission where you rescue a doctor (?) really early in the game trying to get to the extraction point.

Looking forward to trying to get into this.
 
I don't see what's to be excited about. the tactical thing when you freeze time down looks clunky as hell. why not a proper tactical screen like brother in arms?
 
game looks awesome! I'll probably get it. But I thought xcom was supposed to be made by a council and all countries/continents were a part of it, not just america..
 
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