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[Lord Error]

The plot thickens. Your move, Lord Error.

Columns right at the beginning is one place where I definitely noticed vertical aliasing too. I have to say however that I could see it just as well in 720p, I don't think it was improved all that much tbh. However, I'd say vertical shimmer is very notably improved / practically eliminated in 1080p mode.

It's not a big deal either way to me, these are all just nitpicky observations. I'm sure that after 5 minutes of playing I'd forget all about this, as soon as I stop looking for it. It's just that I was actively looking for it when I first started the game.

Ah, I've also noticed that there's some improvements in terms of assets compared to PS2 original. The black tentacles after you kill the colossus are more numerous and smoother looking now. Unless this is something that was enhanced in the EU version of the game, compared to US one I was playing on PS2.

 

[Haint]

the 3D range is dynamic, sometime flat, sometime good, never the max range of GoW (but GoW is singular)

What's the reason behind capping the depth so low Quaz? Is it a technical performance related issue, or are they just assuming everyone will crank it to 11 and expose their 3DTV's horrible performance (i.e. crosstalk)?

 

[ScOULaris]

Seriously though... has anyone completed Hard Time Attack in this version yet? With the changes that BluePoint made to Wander's grip physics, I can't see myself beating #3 or #15 HTA anytime soon. It makes me sad, and I kind of hope for a patch.

 

[Yoshichan]

Seriously though... has anyone completed Hard Time Attack in this version yet? With the changes that BluePoint made to Wander's grip physics, I can't see myself beating #3 or #15 HTA anytime soon. It makes me sad, and I kind of hope for a patch.

The patch isn't gonna happen :lol

I only gave hard trials 3 hours of work and managed to down pretty much every colossi except for 13 and 16. And this was because I ran out of time :lol

edit: 15 is super easy once you know how to grab his knee during the first couple of seconds.

 

[Lord Error]

I've only killed 1st colossus, but I haven't noticed any difference in grip. I do however suspect that physics engine has received some kind of overhaul in the release or it's running at much higher sampling rate than before or something, as the controls are uncannily smoother compared to PS2 version.

 

[Outtrigger888]

What's the reason behind capping the depth so low Quaz? Is it a technical performance related issue, or are they just assuming everyone will crank it to 11 and expose their 3DTV's horrible performance (i.e. crosstalk)?

I have the 3d depth set to max and there's no cross talk. The particles and dust the colossi kick up come off the screen. And looking up zooming the camera at the colossi from the ground has great depth. The 5th colossi looked amazing though, some of the best 3d I've seen. Especially when he starts flapping.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I recently read that the Japanese version of this game has the grip from the original version. Can anyone verify this?

 

[forrest]

Columns right at the beginning is one place where I definitely noticed vertical aliasing too. I have to say however that I could see it just as well in 720p, I don't think it was improved all that much tbh. However, I'd say vertical shimmer is very notably improved / practically eliminated in 1080p mode.

It's not a big deal either way to me, these are all just nitpicky observations. I'm sure that after 5 minutes of playing I'd forget all about this, as soon as I stop looking for it. It's just that I was actively looking for it when I first started the game.

Ah, I've also noticed that there's some improvements in terms of assets compared to PS2 original. The black tentacles after you kill the colossus are more numerous and smoother looking now. Unless this is something that was enhanced in the EU version of the game, compared to US one I was playing on PS2.

Well...

Hehe, just kidding! I agree, all very nit picky and quickly forgotten! I mean, we have to have something to discuss besides all of the gushing!

 

[Deified Data]

Just realized

Spoiler

those things on Pelagia's head are teeth. Where's the top part of his head? Brr...

 

[Betta Lines]

I recently read that the Japanese version of this game has the grip from the original version. Can anyone verify this?

What's up with the grip on the HD version?

 

[TheJollyCorner]

http://baka-neko.fr/gb/index.php?page=article&id=37

totally missed any discussion that may have come from this... and I can't read French...

are people speculating that this is

Spoiler

Chirico-inspired version of The Last Guardian location(s)?

or am I missing something much more obvious? :/

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

What's up with the grip on the HD version?

Wander gets thrown around a lot more easily in the PAL version, which they based the games in the collection off of (although apparently climbing is actually less responsive in the collection than in the PAL version).

 

[Neuromancer]

Wander looks like a grown up version of the kid from About A Boy.

 

[mattp]

Wander gets thrown around a lot more easily in the PAL version, which they based the games in the collection off of (although apparently climbing is actually less responsive in the collection than in the PAL version).

this is a thing? is there any source for this stuff

i thought it felt a little harder when i was playing yesterday

 

[xxracerxx]

Wander looks like a grown up version of the kid from About A Boy.

 

[Salaadin]

totally missed any discussion that may have come from this... and I can't read French...

are people speculating that this is

Spoiler

Chirico-inspired version of The Last Guardian location(s)?

or am I missing something much more obvious? :/

Pretty much what that article says. Rough translation is:

"I do not see these places in Shadow of the Colossus. So I think it is a little teaser of The Last Guardian, next game from Team ICO. Deeply!"

Regarding Wander being thrown around more easily, Im not really getting that feeling. Im 5 Colossi in and only fell once (on #3) but that was more or less the case the first time I played the game too and had to manage with the small grip bar.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

this is a thing? is there any source for this stuff

i thought it felt a little harder when i was playing yesterday

Yeah, a lot of people in this thread and on other forums have verified it. At the very least it's not the same as the original NTSC version, but I'm not sure if it really is changed from the PAL version or not.

 

[Neuromancer]

He has the same weird eyebrows.

 

[snap0212]

Playing ICO for the first time and I think I already don't like it. I'm about 30 minutes into the game and from what I've played I've come to the conclusion that the game just controls horribly. Does the combat ever get satisfying in any way or am I stuck with this unresponsive mess the whole time through? I want to explore the world and enjoy it but ever time a monster shows up I think "Ugh, this is controls horribly". Any tips?

 

[mattp]

Playing ICO for the first time and I think I already don't like it. I'm about 30 minutes into the game and from what I've played I've come to the conclusion that the game just controls horribly. Does the combat ever get satisfying in any way or am I stuck with this unresponsive mess the whole time through? I want to explore the world and enjoy it but ever time a monster shows up I think "Ugh, this is controls horribly". Any tips?

keep going is my only advice

both times i've played the game and felt iffy about it in the first hour or so, and then it just clicks and becomes fucking AWESOME

 

[snap0212]

keep going is my only advice

both times i've played the game and felt iffy about it in the first hour or so, and then it just clicks and becomes fucking AWESOME

So it doesn't really get better but I'll get used to the fact that it controls horribly? I'll give it another try obviously but you see so few negative comments about these games that I just thought I must have done something wrong.

 

[xxracerxx]

So it doesn't really get better but I'll get used to the fact that it controls horribly? I'll give it another try obviously but you see so few negative comments about these games that I just thought I must have done something wrong.

Are you trying to use the right stick for camera control?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Playing ICO for the first time and I think I already don't like it. I'm about 30 minutes into the game and from what I've played I've come to the conclusion that the game just controls horribly. Does the combat ever get satisfying in any way or am I stuck with this unresponsive mess the whole time through? I want to explore the world and enjoy it but ever time a monster shows up I think "Ugh, this is controls horribly". Any tips?

Combat DOES get better, but it never gets good. You'll get a sword after a couple of hours. It kills in 4 hits, which greatly reduces the frustration, though it doesn't change the combat's fundamental clunkiness. It makes it easier and less stressful for the rest of the game. There's even a secret weapon that kills in 2 hits that you can get maybe an hour later, or less if you're fast. You can google "ico mace" if you're not too worried about seeing minor puzzle/location spoilers.

I strongly recommend you persevere if you are enjoying everything else about the game.

 

[mattp]

i dont really know what controls horribly about it
there's only 3 things you can even do. run, hold the girls hand or pick shit up

edit: oh yeah combat haha
i still stand by my opinion that its sort of frustrating on purpose. they're just trying to get you to care about protecting yorda

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

i dont really know what controls horribly about it
there's only 3 things you can even do. run, hold the girls hand or pick shit up

The fighting feels shitty (to some people). You don't have to defend every little thing about these games. It's a common criticism that while they are artistically beautiful the actual mechanics are *sometimes* less than perfect.

 

[SkylineRKR]

So, I've beaten ICO and it was great. Same feeling when I beat SotC on Ps2; nothing to complain about the ending. Simply perfect.

The regular combat is the weak spot of this game, and the game wouldn't need it. The biggest difficulty is in the puzzles and some platform work anyway. ICO's combat not being received well is probably a major reason why Ueda didn't add standard mobs into SotC. And I think it was a great choice; they would just pale in comparison to the giats.

I can now continue SotC HD, showdown with Colossus 6.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

I seem to remember running away from most of "the combat" in Ico. I thought that was the game's intent. Did that get tweaked too?

 

[Neuromancer]

Ico isn't about the combat.

Also most many times you can run through to the next section, or have Yorda open a magic door which zaps all the enemies.

This is a kid with a wooden stick, it's intentionally not supposed to be God of War.

 

[TheExodu5]

I'm assuming SotC must have gotten a lot of praise for its soundtrack, right? It's phenomenal. Definitely one of the best I've ever heard.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I seem to remember running away from most of "the combat" in Ico. I thought that was the game's intent. Did that get tweaked too?

People keep saying you can avoid most of it, but I just didn't find that to be true. The idea of navigating any area that involved Yorda jumping or climbing seems far too risky, making fighting them head-on the preferable alternative. By the time you're halfway through the game, engaging in combat is far less risky than avoiding it unless there's a magic gate nearby.

Ico isn't about the combat.

Also most times you can run through to the next section, or have Yorda open a magic door which zaps all the enemies.

This is a kid with a wooden stick, it's intentionally not supposed to be God of War.

It is, of course, a false dichotomy to say those who dislike the combat must have been expecting God of War. The combat (for the first couple of hours) is clumsy and unfun regardless of the point of comparison, IMO.

 

[snap0212]

Are you trying to use the right stick for camera control?

Yeah, but I haven't been in a situation where I really needed to control the camera (yet).

Combat DOES get better, but it never gets good. You'll get a sword after a couple of hours. It kills in 4 hits, which greatly reduces the frustration, though it doesn't change the combat's fundamental clunkiness. It makes it easier and less stressful for the rest of the game. There's even a secret weapon that kills in 2 hits that you can get maybe an hour later, or less if you're fast. You can google "ico mace" if you're not too worried about seeing minor puzzle/location spoilers.

I strongly recommend you persevere if you are enjoying everything else about the game.

Ah, okay. Knowing it gets (at least a bit) better is a very, very good thing. I won't google the secret weapon but I'll make sure to check it out on my second playthrough. Thanks.

 

[Neuromancer]

It is, of course, a false dichotomy to say those who dislike the combat must have been expecting God of War. The combat (for the first couple of hours) is clumsy and unfun regardless of the point of comparison, IMO.

I never said that; I did however think I made a good point, couched in jest.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Ah, okay. Knowing it gets (at least a bit) better is a very, very good thing. I won't google the secret weapon but I'll make sure to check it out on my second playthrough. Thanks.

It sounds like a small difference, but killing enemies faster really changed the entire thing for me.

I never said that; I did however think I made a good point, couched in jest.

What was your point, if not that the combat wasn't intended to be deep and well developed and therefore... immune to criticism?

I agree with you that Ico is very much NOT about the combat. That doesn't excuse it from criticism, especially as it's clearly the weakest link in the game's otherwise lovely design.

 

[snap0212]

Ico isn't about the combat.

Also most many times you can run through to the next section, or have Yorda open a magic door which zaps all the enemies.

This is a kid with a wooden stick, it's intentionally not supposed to be God of War.

I didn't expect God of War, but I do expect that a game has good combat if it requires me to fight. I do get that you're not supposed to feel like a badass who can just mow everyone down, but the developers implemented enemies that I'm supposed to fight and I have a horrible experience doing that. I want to love the game because everything else seems amazing. It's just this one little thing that bugs me, but if it gets better later on, I'm 100% happy.

 

[Erasus]

Started ICO and got up to the first save point.

Looks great up rezzed like this, first time playing too.

Reading this thread it sounds like I am in for a treat

 

[Neuromancer]

What was your point, if not that the combat wasn't intended to be deep and well developed and therefore... immune to criticism?

I agree with you that Ico is very much NOT about the combat. That doesn't excuse it from criticism, especially as it's clearly the weakest link in the game's otherwise lovely design.

My point is you're playing a kid who is literally using a wooden stick to defend himself. It's not supposed to be easy, or graceful, or look cinematic, like it would in a game where you played a warrior (hence my GoW remark.) I believe the combat was designed intentionally to feel the way that it does.

I didn't expect God of War, but I do expect that a game has good combat if it requires me to fight. I do get that you're not supposed to feel like a badass who can just mow everyone down, but the developers implemented enemies that I'm supposed to fight and I have a horrible experience doing that. I want to love the game because everything else seems amazing. It's just this one little thing that bugs me, but if it gets better later on, I'm 100% happy.

Well you do get a

Spoiler

sword

later on which I believe makes killing the shadow dudes easier.

 

[Bebpo]

How do you have a horrible experience?

1. Stand 5 feet from Yorda with your back turned away from her
2. Wait for enemies to drop down right next to her
3. Turn and run forward while hitting square x 3-4 times to knock them down
4. Run up to knocked down enemy and hit them 3-4 times as they get up (don't even need this step later on)
5. Done

Ico has like the most simple, easy and quick combat in any action game. So the few times you actually do need to fight it shouldn't be a chore at all. Yes, the enemies run away when you run at them, they're like the ghosts from Mario, you need to turn away from them and let them get close. But it's not like they can fight back or hurt you, even if you get knocked down you can get up and knock any enemy off of Yorda before they're gone if you make sure to STAY AT HER SIDE.

This also goes for Yorda issues. The point of the game is to STAY AT HER SIDE. Carry her around with you wherever you go and if you start going away and enemies appear GO BACK AND GRAB HER. You should never be leaving her somewhere and using the R1 "call over" command outside of ladders.

 

[alr1ght]

The only situation anyone should have any trouble combat wise is the the level with the

Spoiler

big block up above the door

. Yorda can sometimes get nabbed and they take her to the top or bottom of the stairs. If you get knocked down, you're out for 3-4 seconds and she can easily get sucked in.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I'm assuming SotC must have gotten a lot of praise for its soundtrack, right? It's phenomenal. Definitely one of the best I've ever heard.

Yes. It is by far my favorite OST. I listen to it more than I listen to "regular" artists and albums for the last 6 years.

 

[snap0212]

Well you do get a

Spoiler

sword

later on which I believe makes killing the shadow dudes easier.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Deified Data]

Yes. It is by far my favorite OST. I listen to it more than I listen to "regular" artists and albums for the last 6 years.

Same. Videogame soundtracks in general have become my preferred listening choice.

 

[yggdrasil]

totally missed any discussion that may have come from this... and I can't read French...

are people speculating that this is

Spoiler

Chirico-inspired version of The Last Guardian location(s)?

or am I missing something much more obvious? :/

I'm pretty sure those locations are from Shadow of the Colossus. A Save Shrine and fruit tree (with a fruit on the ground) can clearly be seen. There's a wide expanse of sea to the west of the structure, so the image can be taken as a stylized map of the Icoverse.

 

[Betta Lines]

I'm assuming SotC must have gotten a lot of praise for its soundtrack, right? It's phenomenal. Definitely one of the best I've ever heard.

It really is. Are they using the same guy for TLG? That recent footage had a very different style in terms of score...

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Same. Videogame soundtracks in general have become my preferred listening choice.

Exactly. So much more enjoyment from osts for me.

 

[schlew]

Is there any way once you're already in either SOTC or Ico to exit out to that initial menu and play the other title? I can't seem to find a way and the manual mentions nothing on the subject as far as I can tell.

 

[Scapegoat]

How related are the two games storywise? Would I be any worse off if I played SotC first?

 

[Yoshichan]

Fuck it. Replaying SotC on hard again just because this game is too good!

 

[Deleted member 30609]

How related are the two games storywise? Would I be any worse off if I played SotC first?

On one hand, you'd be totally fine. That's how I did it. On the other, play Ico first.

 

[semiconscious]

My point is you're playing a kid who is literally using a wooden stick to defend himself. It's not supposed to be easy, or graceful, or look cinematic, like it would in a game where you played a warrior (hence my GoW remark.) I believe the combat was designed intentionally to feel the way that it does.

agreed. combat's clunky? that might be because you're playing as a young boy with little to no combat experience. it's supposed to feel clunky. which, of course, makes the combat that much more difficult/frustrating - iow, as it actually would be if you were a boy fighting off spirits with a 2x4...

this isn't an 'excuse' - it's an extremely logical explanation...

 

[Figboy79]

I guess if the worst things people can complain about concerning Ico and SOTC are the controls for Ico's combat, and Agro, then it's still sitting high in my book.

In the case of Ico, he's a 10 year old boy (roughly), he's not Dante or Kratos. There's no target lock on or Square, Square, Triangle combos here.

I mean, he can climb and hang like no 10 year old I've ever known, but still, it's the nature of the universe. I always found his awkward flailing charming. When it comes to combat, I think the only frustration I ever felt was how long it would take him to get back up after being knocked down, not how he fights in general.

I don't really have many complaints to level at the game (Yorda is kind of frustratingly stubborn/slow witted sometimes, and Agro is iffy as well, but I like how it felt like I was fighting against a living creature, not controlling a car in horse form), but the total package is just so damn beautifully realized, that I don't hold it against them.