RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Man, I'd forgotten how awkward the controls in SotC are. Still a great game, but this is going to take a while to get used to again. >>
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The ICO and Shadow of the Colossus Collection |OT| Ueda *bow*
- Thread starter alr1ght
- Start date
ScOULaris said:
Did the PAL version do that originally?
And I would agree that it doesn't make it harder, but it does make it more frustrating, like I previously said when I play my PS2, being in the UK it would be PAL, version of the game every year and have never had the trouble with the 15th Colossi like I did.
It wasn't hard, I wasn't getting killed, but it was getting utterly frustrating at points where regardless of how I positioned myself I would spend most of the time making small stabs and slowly whittling down his health because I simply didn't have time for anything bigger while being flicked around.
I would also hardly say it is being blown out of proportion, it is a change to what I otherwise considered a perfectly fine game already and wasn't really needed, and It isn't like the game was very realistic game to begin with and needed a change.
It is just that to me, having played the game tens of times plus already, to then run through every Colossi up to 14 and then 16 like always and then suddenly get frustrated at one for ages is just an annoying change, but it in no way ruins the game for me or anything, it just seems like an unneeded change for this version.
lastinline said:
One of the best sensations I have ever had after getting a single Trophy. In my case, that was amplified by the fact that I don't really know if I was going to succeed or not till the end. You really feel like you mastered the game, even if you copied a walkthrough on Youtube : )
Melfice7 said:
As far as I know you could jump glitch up there, but that was fixed, so now it takes 4-5 run throughs of just killing Colossi or something to have the stamina required to make it all the way.
It also is a lot quicker going through killing Colossi over and over than going around collecting Lizard Tails.
Finished ICO. The art design is just superb. The architecture of the castle is like the 3D castlevania we never got. The ending reminds me of the ending of Symphony of the Night's (shiteous) CGI of the castle disintegrating.
I would love to play this in 3D. I think the art is perfect for it.
I would love to play this in 3D. I think the art is perfect for it.
Melfice7 said:
Maybe, but I think originally it was suppose to be a secret thing you came across yourself and then found ways to get up there, hence the jumping thing you used to be able to do.
The first few times I played through SotC I had no idea there were special Lizards to boost stamina or fruit to eat for health, let alone that you could climb up the side, I guess until the end of the game they didn't think you would know there was something else to find and it would be something to work towards.
From memory the only thing up there that does anything is the fruit that saps your stamina, if there wasn't a trophy for getting up there and eating all the fruit it would otherwise be as hidden as usual.
Totobeni said:the melons ending..it was just a dream
A dream?
Did they actually say that it was a dream, because now that has become the standard ending for the game internationally with the Classics HD, and I don't think I've seen it be mentioned by the developers that it was a dream.
Did they actually say that it was a dream, because now that has become the standard ending for the game internationally with the Classics HD, and I don't think I've seen it be mentioned by the developers that it was a dream.
Unless you meant something else, lol.
Here is the full statement of this vagueness: (spoiler tagged)jett said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31420504&postcount=2692
Acquiescence
Member
Somewhere between the PS2 version and the HD remaster, Shadow Of The Colossus became a HANG-ON-FOR-DEAR-LIFE-ARGH! simulator. Fuck, this shit is so frustrating. The slightest wiggle of a Colossus' hips and Wander is flailing around like John Holmes schlong while doing the helicopter. I mean, just merely holding on was never this strenuous in the original, and it's actually got to the point where it has tainted my fond memories of the game somewhat. Hard time attack is...not going to be an enjoyable experience.
ICO is still beast though.
ICO is still beast though.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
90 mins into Ico for the first time.
Great atmosphere. Great puzzles. Great level design. Great art.
The combat is nearly ruining all of that for me so far. Horrible.
Great atmosphere. Great puzzles. Great level design. Great art.
The combat is nearly ruining all of that for me so far. Horrible.
Foliorum Viridum said:
I played the game for the first time a couple of weeks ago. At first I had the same feelings you're having now about the combat, but I ended up liking the game so much that I just didn't care anymore about the lack of depth of the combat mechanics.
It improves a bit after you get
the sword
It must be said that
you can skip a lot of the combat by running to the next area or taking Yorda next a green door (when she opens it black ghost disappears).
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I'm not going to highlight those for fear of ruining something I wouldn't want ruined.
But my problem with the combat is it distracts from everything else I love about the game, not so much that the mechanics of it are shit (which they are). I just want to explore, climb and solve puzzles. Now I'm being forced to push crates around and hit these enemies that just keep re-spawning for far too long and run across the area every 20 seconds because Yorda is being pulled into a hole. NOTHING about the combat is fun. It doesn't make me feel like I'm protecting Yorda, it's making me wish she was better at dodging them. The times I feel connected to her are when I'm guiding her around the castle and figuring out how I can help her get to the next platform etc.
My heart was literally sinking when I went from one area to the next and there was just more enemies. Not needed at all.
But my problem with the combat is it distracts from everything else I love about the game, not so much that the mechanics of it are shit (which they are). I just want to explore, climb and solve puzzles. Now I'm being forced to push crates around and hit these enemies that just keep re-spawning for far too long and run across the area every 20 seconds because Yorda is being pulled into a hole. NOTHING about the combat is fun. It doesn't make me feel like I'm protecting Yorda, it's making me wish she was better at dodging them. The times I feel connected to her are when I'm guiding her around the castle and figuring out how I can help her get to the next platform etc.
My heart was literally sinking when I went from one area to the next and there was just more enemies. Not needed at all.
Like someone else said before in this thread it makes sense that the combat is a little "clunky" since the character you're using is a 6/7 years old boy who has never fighted before, and it is a very easy way for Ueda to keep you always afraid of losing Yorda. But to be honest I'm totally with you when you said that it can get annoying.
If it is a issue so big that it's ruining your experience, the only thing I could do is suggest you to higlight the last line I wrote in my previous post, a letter at a time. I wrote it in a way so you can decide if you want to know what's next or not (and maybe you're already doing what I mentioned).
If it is a issue so big that it's ruining your experience, the only thing I could do is suggest you to higlight the last line I wrote in my previous post, a letter at a time. I wrote it in a way so you can decide if you want to know what's next or not (and maybe you're already doing what I mentioned).
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
*carefully highlights*
Yeah, I have been running to those doors when I can. It's unfortunate that they aren't everywhere. The combat really stood out as an annoyance in the area where you need to push a crate over a switch to open the door and then have Yorda stand on the other to open the door. There's no way to just run past that - you either have to stand there and fight for 2/3 mins, or try your best to drag around the crate etc as you swing like a madman, move Yorda, push it a bit more, etc etc.
It's not so bad I'll stop playing by any means, but until the combat became so frequent I was understanding why people loved it so much. Now I'm just dreading that every other room I enter will be a horrible combat encounter
However, just running past enemies isn't a solution to the problem. I liked taking it slow, looking at the environments, etc etc. If I have to drag her around enemies a lot it will ruin that atmosphere for me, so I hope that's not going to be the case either.
Yeah, I have been running to those doors when I can. It's unfortunate that they aren't everywhere. The combat really stood out as an annoyance in the area where you need to push a crate over a switch to open the door and then have Yorda stand on the other to open the door. There's no way to just run past that - you either have to stand there and fight for 2/3 mins, or try your best to drag around the crate etc as you swing like a madman, move Yorda, push it a bit more, etc etc.
It's not so bad I'll stop playing by any means, but until the combat became so frequent I was understanding why people loved it so much. Now I'm just dreading that every other room I enter will be a horrible combat encounter
Thank fuck!alr1ghtstart said:
However, just running past enemies isn't a solution to the problem. I liked taking it slow, looking at the environments, etc etc. If I have to drag her around enemies a lot it will ruin that atmosphere for me, so I hope that's not going to be the case either.
bluedeviltron
Member
It wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't so much waiting for animation to fucking stop. The seemingly 10 second long knockdown animation is insanely frustrating.Foliorum Viridum said:
I'm also annoyed with the super long fade in and out from black between rooms and mostly unskippable 'gameplay' cutscenes.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Yeah every time I get knocked down I mash the buttons but I don't think it helps.
It's better than a health bar, because dying in this game via combat would suck, but it definitely makes it more annoying.
It's better than a health bar, because dying in this game via combat would suck, but it definitely makes it more annoying.
I was ignoring Ico because of the combat on PS2 too. But after the first "I need to deal with this shitty combat" reaction this time around I kind of got used to it and in the end it was kind of fun. Just stick with it. It also helped that I got an optional weapon during the game which I stumbled upon because the one time I had to use a guide was exactly where you can find that weapon
Now here's my 2 cents regarding the game in 3D. I would never have thought that 3D adds so much to the game. I just spent 6 hours nonstop finishing the game never taking of my shutter glasses. Some settings are absolutely amazing in 3D, it's really a perfect fit for the game. Only downside is that some parts had horrible ghosting especially towards the end
it got was really bad at times. Some cutscenes also suffer from ghosting while some parts there is literally none at all.
All in all great game, now I wonder if SotC will be just as good in 3D... (haven't played it myself yet either)
near the waterfall, the watermill almost got me going crazy
Now here's my 2 cents regarding the game in 3D. I would never have thought that 3D adds so much to the game. I just spent 6 hours nonstop finishing the game never taking of my shutter glasses. Some settings are absolutely amazing in 3D, it's really a perfect fit for the game. Only downside is that some parts had horrible ghosting especially towards the end
when you're alone in the water
All in all great game, now I wonder if SotC will be just as good in 3D... (haven't played it myself yet either)
alr1ghtstart said:
I'd say that's one of the two combat heavy areas of the game.
Also since you got past it, just for sake of completeness it must be told that there's a way to skip also that encounter:
you can place Yorda on the second switch, run through the door, climb the rope, make the crate fall, place it on the switch, save Yorda just before she disappears and run through the door with her without having to hit the ghosts once.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Ill Saint said:
It's not realistic to assume that a first timer will have enough knowledge of the layouts or want to engage in trial and error, running all over the place looking for an exit while risking Yorda getting snatched up. That's definitely not how the game's atmosphere suggests that one should enjoy oneself.
Foliorum Viridum said:
Try also rotating the left stick rapidly while mashing jump. I don't know if it works, but I was able to at least fool myself into thinking I was getting up faster.
Anyway, if you're 90 minutes in, combat is going to become less frequent and easier pretty soon. I was complaining about exactly the same things as you.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
See that doesn't make sense to me. If I did that way (which is more hassle than just fighting them, I would argue) I'd assume that as soon as I left her to go to the new area she'd be snapped up and I'd fail.Syn23 said:
Not to mention then I'd have to be rushing which isn't the fun way to play this game.
I mean, that might be the right way to speedrun it, but did anyone really play it that way the first time?
Edit: Basically, what the guy above said, haha.
But yeah, it's good to hear this is just one shitty spot. I really was enjoying it until now!
base shagohod
Member
So I just finished SotC and I really get why people love this game. The overall design and atmosphere are amazing, and it's been said a thousand times, but the animations are crazy detailed. Really impressed by all of it.
A couple questions/thoughts:
The eagle flying music on idle at the title screen is so dope. Gonna check out the soundtrack to see how much it's running for these days.. Hopefully not too much.
I loved fighting #13. Felt cool as shit shooting at him then riding up next to him and jumping on his wing. Even better, I just happened to learn how to stand on Agro right before this fight, so I felt like a boss the whole time. So good.
A couple questions/thoughts:
-I get that it's supposed to be for a more emotional response to the story, but why even let me move around as Dormin? Frustrated the fuck out of me. He's supposed to be this powerful demon and he moves like he's injured or something. Is it even possible to take out any of those soldiers before they run away?
-Is the baby supposed to be Ico? Or just the hero reincarnated?
-Is the baby supposed to be Ico? Or just the hero reincarnated?
The eagle flying music on idle at the title screen is so dope. Gonna check out the soundtrack to see how much it's running for these days.. Hopefully not too much.
The source of the control problems in SotC is the camera. The actual movement, combat, and traversal all work fine. But I spent a good chunk of the game just fighting against the camera. In that respect, I think Ico has aged much better than SotC.RurouniZel said:
That answers nothing. If it's not in the game itself, then it's not a valid explanation--no matter who says it. As it stands in the final game, the ending is exactly what it is. No more. No less.jett said:
sixteen-bit
Member
The explosions in Ico are evocative of the ones in ZOE2. Are they just a bunch of 2D circles with varying levels of transparencies?
matics said:
I believe you're supposed to feel as the colossi felt: enormous and powerful, yet helpless to alter what's happening to you. I admit that it's frustrating as hell, but I guess that's the point. You can't really kill any of the soldiers, but you can delay their escape for quite some time.
As for the baby, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be Wander either reincarnated or regressed and "cursed" due to his actions. It makes the ending all the more bittersweet knowing that, even though he can't appreciate it, his actions did accomplish his goal and he now gets to spend his life with the person he was so willing to fight for. Tonally perfect for the game.
As for the baby, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be Wander either reincarnated or regressed and "cursed" due to his actions. It makes the ending all the more bittersweet knowing that, even though he can't appreciate it, his actions did accomplish his goal and he now gets to spend his life with the person he was so willing to fight for. Tonally perfect for the game.
I also think they included that scene so the player could feelCarl said:
what it's like for a colossus trying to fend off quicker little pests like Wander. Something that large is going to have very cumbersome (but powerful) movements compared to the shorter but rapid movements of tinier humans. With one swipe you can knock all of the guards down, but it takes a while to get your supremely large body in position to attack. You can really feel the effort it takes to move all of that mass.
Does that make any sense? I thought it was an incredibly nice touch at the end there.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Just finished SotC, and it was my first time with it.
The last colossus was my least favourite of all of them. The only noteworthy thing about it was it's size, which only made me enjoy it less, as every time you lose your grip and fall, it takes AGES to climb back up.
The ending left me confused about a few things.
A wonderful game, but I'm left with a somewhat sour aftertaste.
The last colossus was my least favourite of all of them. The only noteworthy thing about it was it's size, which only made me enjoy it less, as every time you lose your grip and fall, it takes AGES to climb back up.
The ending left me confused about a few things.
A wonderful game, but I'm left with a somewhat sour aftertaste.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
conman said:
I contend that when people say the controls are bad, they don't meant that the controls are particularly unresponsive. I think they mean that the interaction between the character and the environment geometry is often sloppy. The only reason it's not much of a problem overall is that the game rarely demands speed or precision in traversal. This problem was highlighted for me during the battle with #14. Lots of platforming under dangerous conditions, and I was getting a tad pissed.
You're not wrong about the camera, either, but for me it was rarely a problem once I learned when to use L1.
That fuckin' horse though. Sometimes he won't go fast. Why?