HolyBaikal
Banned
:/
Well that was uncalled for.
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The Japanese studios I grew up loving are all dead to me now and I'm sad
- Thread starter Moofers
- Start date
Well that was uncalled for.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
Platinum Games OP.
Believe.
Believe.
in the defence of sega, shifting a majority of their retail output to smaller titles (the cave, castle of illusion, rereleases, et al), focussing on a few core franchises, and understanding pc is a good way to have evergreen sales with cheap/almost costless distribution more or less turned their finances around in the space of a single year, which is phenomenal and allowed them to rescue atlus and relic from the wreckages of other companies
yeah it sucks that we didn't get yakuza 5 overseas, or that a lot of great ips are dormant, but it ensures sega's survival and lowers the chances of them getting sold by sammy in the coming years
yeah it sucks that we didn't get yakuza 5 overseas, or that a lot of great ips are dormant, but it ensures sega's survival and lowers the chances of them getting sold by sammy in the coming years
revolverjgw
Member
And it feels like it`s only going to get worse as games get even more expensive and complex to develop. I`m worried that mid-budget games like The Evil WIthin are going to be very few and far between this gen.
Host Samurai
Member
Capcom died with Clover. Things would still be good if Capcom didn't run them out and gave them full creative control. I would guarantee that if a new Okami came out on on home consoles that it would be a hit.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
This too. Nintendo have also started stagnating however the difference between Nintendo and the other Japanaese devs mentioned is that even if the they released the same franchises they were good games.
Look what SE has done to FF with 13 and KH. Look what Capcom has done with Megaman, Resident Evil and Breath of Fire.
To be fair, FF XIII sold several million. Not to mention Skyrim is pretty much the most popular RPG and its entire existence is a timesink.
The new Sega is pretty bad compared to Genesis to Dreamcast/early Xbox era Sega. They were once a truly creative company that took actual risks with IPs. Leaving the console business and getting in bed with Sammy pretty much all but killed them, shutting down devs like Smilebit, churning out awful Sonic games for years. The Sega of today sucks. People complain about Rare all the time but Sega's downward spiral into mediocrity was far sadder to watch as a Sega fan who's been there since the Master System.
Trust me, OP... I know EXACTLY how you feel. So much so that the only games I play are pretty much Japanese games. There's the odd Western or European title I'll play but I don't get hyped the same way I do about a Japanese game.
Cherish what console experience you can get from the Japanese games they are making and that are being localized. That's what I'm doing.
Cherish what console experience you can get from the Japanese games they are making and that are being localized. That's what I'm doing.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Sega has Yakuza and PSO.....oh and Miku
I do hope SCEJ can increase their output this gen with al the talk of new management etc.
DrROBschiz
Member
Man... The games that SEGA chooses to localize or remake just baffle my brain
They clearly have no interest in catering to their hardcore audience thats for sure
They own Atlus.
Warning : doing that if you're European might lead to some nasty side-effects, Proceed with caution.
And, errmm... "Zelda trailer we got 10 years ago"... like, that 10s tech demo that was just OoT with "better looking" graphics? Ok.
Back in the PSOne days, Konami was my favorite company without a doubt. I owned everything, all of the expensive MSX2 (SD Snatcher, MG:SS, Akumajou Dracula, you name it) games, imports of pretty much all of their PSOne/Saturn output etc. They were at their creative best. sometime near the end of the PS2 lifespan, they transitioned into the DDR/MGS factory. This generation, they're the MGS/hand-off-our-storied-game-to-less-than-competent-Western-dev Factory. People say Capcom has fell fast and hard but at least they have Street Fighter. Konami has nothing for me.
Ah, I think I understand what you mean better. Western console development is pretty awful, but yeah PC development and the indie scene have kept it alive.
Really, traditional game development got way too expensive and risky. This seriously impacted both the east and the west. When people realized you could make the big bucks on mobile, a lot of people migrated there. Hopefully this "half-step" generation of consoles can help developers catch up... but I really doubt it.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People are just getting older and seeing first-hand the effects of time. Things shift. Games aren't made by faceless companies - but by the people working at those companies. People retire, change, or move on to other companies. Management changes too - much of Japan's management culture in the game industry seemed incapable of grasping changes to the game market that set in during generation 7.
Whenever one falls another rises. Square is a different company, but Atlus has moved up. And the Tales team at Namco steadily improves.
The irony seems to be that Nintendo is an example of "be careful what you wish for". Sure, they haven't treated series like Starfox or F-Zero well. But by and large they *have* stayed the same as they always where, kept making the same games they always did, and didn't change with the times. And look how much criticism they get for "making the same stuff over and over".
Besides this, Capcom's "milking" of fighting games has always been misunderstood by casual players. They don't get that fighting game updates are made for the hardcore who want them (generally speaking). All companies are the same this way with fighting games, especially Arc System Works.
Whenever one falls another rises. Square is a different company, but Atlus has moved up. And the Tales team at Namco steadily improves.
The irony seems to be that Nintendo is an example of "be careful what you wish for". Sure, they haven't treated series like Starfox or F-Zero well. But by and large they *have* stayed the same as they always where, kept making the same games they always did, and didn't change with the times. And look how much criticism they get for "making the same stuff over and over".
Besides this, Capcom's "milking" of fighting games has always been misunderstood by casual players. They don't get that fighting game updates are made for the hardcore who want them (generally speaking). All companies are the same this way with fighting games, especially Arc System Works.
Wiz
Member
Isn't Namco's IP doing generally well? Tales of, Dark Souls, Tekken, Soul Calibur, The Shonen games, etc.
Dark Octave
Banned
Sad thread.
In my day it was Capcom, Konami, Squaresoft, Enix, Sunsoft, Hudson, Tecmo and a million more that I can't think of right now.
From that list Capcom is the only one that I would say is doing anything someone like me would care about. SquareEnix what ised to be my favorite company has totally let me down last gen amd thos one is looking to be worse woth their horrible outputs of Final Fantasy and their push for mobile.
In my day it was Capcom, Konami, Squaresoft, Enix, Sunsoft, Hudson, Tecmo and a million more that I can't think of right now.
From that list Capcom is the only one that I would say is doing anything someone like me would care about. SquareEnix what ised to be my favorite company has totally let me down last gen amd thos one is looking to be worse woth their horrible outputs of Final Fantasy and their push for mobile.
H_Prestige
Banned
From Software is the only japanese developer who knows what the hell they're doing.
Used to be a big fan of Square and Nintendo. Now they're useless.
Used to be a big fan of Square and Nintendo. Now they're useless.
I dunno, From Software are only doing what Nintendo are doing. Updating on the same formula they're renowned for.
Atlus rises? Come on now. They rose so high that they were bought by Sega? A company that is an example of falling so far? Hmm...
From Software just found a way to make King's Field work.
Shame the same cannot be said for Armored Core. But it's easy to forget that that is from From too...
Chill Penguin
Member
For a while there i thought i just grew out of gaming, but then i realized that i'm just not into western games. I love the creativity and imagination that oozes from japanese games but is largely missing from western games that opt for the more realistic and gritty premises.
There are so many critically acclaimed games that i tried this gen that i just couldn't get into. Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, GTA, CoD, BF, Mass Effect, Batman, etc. These games just feel painfully dull to me, and i long for the days when Capcom, Konami, Namco, and Square were the top dogs, because i'm just not a fan of devs like Ubisoft, Rockstar, and Activision.
There are so many critically acclaimed games that i tried this gen that i just couldn't get into. Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, GTA, CoD, BF, Mass Effect, Batman, etc. These games just feel painfully dull to me, and i long for the days when Capcom, Konami, Namco, and Square were the top dogs, because i'm just not a fan of devs like Ubisoft, Rockstar, and Activision.
King's Field works, and the Soul's games aren't like King's Field.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
1991?
Hard to disagree with too much of the OP. As others have said, Atlus, From, Platinum and of course Nintendo are still keeping the flag flying, but otherwise it's a grim scene.
What happened? My theories / guesses:
1. As games became more complex - both visually and narratively - the cultural differences between Japan and the West that were hidden behind a simple sprite and short dialogue became more and more obvious, and started turning off more and more fans in the west.
From FFX onwards I've felt like I have to endure character designs and dialogue in almost all JRPGs, rather than actually enjoying them. Eventually I pretty much stopped playing the genre in its entirety.
I always used to wonder - 'What if a talented Japanese dev made a game that was utterly seeped in Western/Euro culture, to the point that you couldn't tell it was made in Japan?' Well, FromSoftware answered that question this generation and became one of the most successful and beloved dev houses out there. Add it all up and seems obvious to me that culture is a problem.
2. As games became more complex - in terms of gameplay - they started to fall out of the mainstream in Japan. It's simple phone games that rule the roost now, but I feel like this has been a long time coming - the average Japanese person checked out of complex gaming some years ago, and traditional Japanese game devs have struggled with that reduced audience etc. To compensate it seems like a lot of them decided that rather than trying to rope everyone back in, that they'd focus on niche audiences like otaku. These games are almost impossible to sell outside of that niche, and almost impossible to localise as there aren't a huge amount of Japanophile western otaku.
3. The rise of the AAA anualised mega-game made by western devs who understand the western mass-market mainstream gamer in an instinctual way that Japanese devs simply don't. These games dominate the market to such an extent that the slice of the pie in the West that Japanese devs can reach is actually smaller than ever, and I don't think those devs are equipped to compete in those areas with CoD or Assassin's Creed.
When their top IPs fail to sell like these games, they think there's a problem with those IPs, but the truth is that only two or three Western IPs are capable of selling like this, and it shouldn't be a goal for anyone. Budget responsibly, and accept the limitations of your IP. But don't simply shelve a popular IP because you're looking for the next CoD, WoW or P&D.
4. Due to the rigid corporate structure of Japanese companies, it seems (to my eyes) that they handled to transition to next-gen far worse than Western devs. They seem to react to market changes very slowly, and I can't think of any other reason why. They also often seem very out of touch with what their fan-base wants, or what the market in general would respond to. Again, I think that this is a function of having older, out-of-touch people making unchallenged decisions at the top of the chain.
All of that is idle speculation from someone who has never even been to Japan, so it's probably worthless. But that's what it looks like to a complete outsider who used to play Japanese games almost exclusively. There are quite obviously a bunch of difficult problems there, but there shouldn't be despair. If you keep making good games for an audience that actually exists, then you will sell copies. There's still plenty of talent in Japan.
What happened? My theories / guesses:
1. As games became more complex - both visually and narratively - the cultural differences between Japan and the West that were hidden behind a simple sprite and short dialogue became more and more obvious, and started turning off more and more fans in the west.
From FFX onwards I've felt like I have to endure character designs and dialogue in almost all JRPGs, rather than actually enjoying them. Eventually I pretty much stopped playing the genre in its entirety.
I always used to wonder - 'What if a talented Japanese dev made a game that was utterly seeped in Western/Euro culture, to the point that you couldn't tell it was made in Japan?' Well, FromSoftware answered that question this generation and became one of the most successful and beloved dev houses out there. Add it all up and seems obvious to me that culture is a problem.
2. As games became more complex - in terms of gameplay - they started to fall out of the mainstream in Japan. It's simple phone games that rule the roost now, but I feel like this has been a long time coming - the average Japanese person checked out of complex gaming some years ago, and traditional Japanese game devs have struggled with that reduced audience etc. To compensate it seems like a lot of them decided that rather than trying to rope everyone back in, that they'd focus on niche audiences like otaku. These games are almost impossible to sell outside of that niche, and almost impossible to localise as there aren't a huge amount of Japanophile western otaku.
3. The rise of the AAA anualised mega-game made by western devs who understand the western mass-market mainstream gamer in an instinctual way that Japanese devs simply don't. These games dominate the market to such an extent that the slice of the pie in the West that Japanese devs can reach is actually smaller than ever, and I don't think those devs are equipped to compete in those areas with CoD or Assassin's Creed.
When their top IPs fail to sell like these games, they think there's a problem with those IPs, but the truth is that only two or three Western IPs are capable of selling like this, and it shouldn't be a goal for anyone. Budget responsibly, and accept the limitations of your IP. But don't simply shelve a popular IP because you're looking for the next CoD, WoW or P&D.
4. Due to the rigid corporate structure of Japanese companies, it seems (to my eyes) that they handled to transition to next-gen far worse than Western devs. They seem to react to market changes very slowly, and I can't think of any other reason why. They also often seem very out of touch with what their fan-base wants, or what the market in general would respond to. Again, I think that this is a function of having older, out-of-touch people making unchallenged decisions at the top of the chain.
All of that is idle speculation from someone who has never even been to Japan, so it's probably worthless. But that's what it looks like to a complete outsider who used to play Japanese games almost exclusively. There are quite obviously a bunch of difficult problems there, but there shouldn't be despair. If you keep making good games for an audience that actually exists, then you will sell copies. There's still plenty of talent in Japan.
capcom was one of my favorites back on the SNES and PS1.
now?
the destroyed one of may favorite franchises. (resident evil)
konami only does MGS and i am not a fan of the direction since mgs4.
didnt like peace walker and am not lookong forward to mgs5.
namco had tekken and ace combat. both are f2p and crap now.
man, i LOVE Ace Combat. the PS2 games are 3 of the best games ever for me.
but they wanted the COD audience and made the POS Assault Horizent..
Square had so many awesome games/franchises.
now the only do final fantasy and it is crap.
played ff 13 for 10 hours and stopped.
didnt care for 13-2 and LR and to be honest, I'm not hyped at all for FF 15.
looks like FF13 mixed with Uncharted..
nintendo is even more kiddy than they were with the SNES..
CecilRousso
Member
They suffer because they have stuck with the same old game series for to long. There is no plan b for these companies. Let old series like Megaman and Sonic rest, at least for a while, and create something new, that isn't F2P or social.
Can I upvote this thread? Lots of truth in here.
However, I fail to understand how Atlus is being hailed as one of the last remaining hopes while the company is actually bankrupt - if I remember correctly, at least. Edit: So I hear they are bought by Sega. I hope they keep pushing creative games.
But yeah, Atlus presented great spirit and inspiration (publishing FromSoftware's 3D Dot Game Heroes, oh my!) and it is really sad to see so many IPs going downhill.
Konami, where are Gradius, Contra? I dare not ask for Silent Hill...
Remarkably, no mention of Sony Japan Studios here so far. They are not putting out a lot, but the quality was pretty great overall. At least that's something, huh?
I really wish the new console gen will help japanese devs get their act together with "dat time to triangle". And looking at Skyrim, no, HD towns are no longer an excuse
Lots of truth in here.However, I fail to understand how Atlus is being hailed as one of the last remaining hopes while the company is actually bankrupt - if I remember correctly, at least. Edit: So I hear they are bought by Sega. I hope they keep pushing creative games.
But yeah, Atlus presented great spirit and inspiration (publishing FromSoftware's 3D Dot Game Heroes, oh my!) and it is really sad to see so many IPs going downhill.
Konami, where are Gradius, Contra? I dare not ask for Silent Hill...
Remarkably, no mention of Sony Japan Studios here so far. They are not putting out a lot, but the quality was pretty great overall. At least that's something, huh?
I really wish the new console gen will help japanese devs get their act together with "dat time to triangle". And looking at Skyrim, no, HD towns are no longer an excuse
Prophane33
Member
While Square ruined the awesomeness of Enix, at least my favorite company, Koei, is doing strong with Tecmo. They haven't taken a hit on either quantity or quality of their games.
As a huge Namco nut I haven't exactly liked the way they have been treating their key franchises after the Bandai merger (and don't get me started on all these "premium" and/or "TV" sound editions they've been pushing out lately), Ridge Racer is ruined, but it looks like the new F2P Ace Combat might actually be pretty damn good. I feel like Tekken is only barely hanging on (Tekken 5 was the last one I really enjoyed), but maybe I'm in the minority there. I do wish the Bandai side didn't seem to be making all the decisions these days (e.g. too many licensed games), then again I do tend to buy anything with the word Gundam in the title.
As far as Konami goes...yeah, they've seen better days. These days they are the PES/ Metal Gear/Jikkyou Power Pro Baseball. All three are great franchises, but I would love to see some more diversity. What happened to Enthusia? It was a neat little Gran Turismo contender and I would have loved to see where it went as a franchise.
Capcom has long been dead to me.
Sega has seen better days, but I'm still loyal to them (outside of Sonic games). I'll continue to buy Hatsune Miku stuff and probably picking up Yakuza Restoration soon-ish.
Also, while not a publisher, Artdink needs to get to making some more weirdness. FROM seems to be doing well. and I've never cared for Atlus (outside of some racing games they made back in the 32-bit era).
As a huge Namco nut I haven't exactly liked the way they have been treating their key franchises after the Bandai merger (and don't get me started on all these "premium" and/or "TV" sound editions they've been pushing out lately), Ridge Racer is ruined, but it looks like the new F2P Ace Combat might actually be pretty damn good. I feel like Tekken is only barely hanging on (Tekken 5 was the last one I really enjoyed), but maybe I'm in the minority there. I do wish the Bandai side didn't seem to be making all the decisions these days (e.g. too many licensed games), then again I do tend to buy anything with the word Gundam in the title.
As far as Konami goes...yeah, they've seen better days. These days they are the PES/ Metal Gear/Jikkyou Power Pro Baseball. All three are great franchises, but I would love to see some more diversity. What happened to Enthusia? It was a neat little Gran Turismo contender and I would have loved to see where it went as a franchise.
Capcom has long been dead to me.
Sega has seen better days, but I'm still loyal to them (outside of Sonic games). I'll continue to buy Hatsune Miku stuff and probably picking up Yakuza Restoration soon-ish.
Also, while not a publisher, Artdink needs to get to making some more weirdness. FROM seems to be doing well. and I've never cared for Atlus (outside of some racing games they made back in the 32-bit era).
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Megaman? I think the problem capcom has is how they don't know what to do with all their amazing IP.
Can I upvote this thread?
However, I fail to understand how Atlus is being hailed as one of the last remaining hopes while the company is actually bankrupt - if I remember correctly, at least.
But yeah, Atlus presented great spirit and inspiration (3D Dot Game Heroes, oh my!) and it is really sad to see so many IPs going downhill.
Konami, where are Gradius, Contra? I dare not ask for Silent Hill...
Remarkably, no mention of Sony Japan Studios here so far. They are not putting out a lot, but the quality was pretty great overall. At least that's something, huh?
I really wish the new console gen will help japanese devs get their act together with "dat time to triangle". And looking at Skyrim, no, HD towns are no longer an excuse
From Software made 3D Dot Game Heroes, not Atlus. Also, it was the company that owned Atlus that went under, Atlus was sold to Sega.
Prophane33
Member
Hell yes Koei is still alive. They merged with Tecmo but their quantity and quality has not dropped.
The Souls series is only five years old though.
You should check out their older games, Shadow Tower Abyss, for example, if the Souls series was your first contact with From. Different perspective, mechanics etc. but similar approach.
I think you're being too optimistic.
Capcom, Konami and Square-Enix are terrible these days. I give them maybe two years to improve before I write them off completely.
You mean the GC tech demo? The most generic and predictable look for a Zelda game ever?
I hope we never get it.
Asura's Wrath, Dragon's Dogma, Street Fighter 4, Resident Evil 5 (haven't played 6 yet) Devil May Cry 4 (excellent combat) are all great games so Capcom hasn't been all that bad to me this gen.
I also enjoyed FFXIII and XIII-2 (haven't played LR yet) and Birth by Sleep and Crisis Core on PSP were amazing. With FFXV and KHIII in the works, SE is still on my good side.
Konami's was the biggest downfall I think.
I also enjoyed FFXIII and XIII-2 (haven't played LR yet) and Birth by Sleep and Crisis Core on PSP were amazing. With FFXV and KHIII in the works, SE is still on my good side.
Konami's was the biggest downfall I think.