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The Joker controversy

Nightrunner

Nightrunner

Member
A non-controversy IMO some folks just get triggered too easily. I was kinda surprised to see sold out seats since Hollywood stuff here doesn't really pack cinemas unless its something like Endgame.
The film itself reminded me of Taxi Driver and Network along with a bit of King of Comedy (especially with regards to the origin story) thrown in though it seems a lot like Scorsese's films from the '70s and early '80s. Overall a good film but very derivative if you're familiar with the movies I mentioned.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
haven't seen the movie yet but checking out a lot of reviews. it sounds great.

one thing i notice is people saying "This film isn't political at all" which is a silly as fuck statement to make, from the sound of the plot. for instance i hear he kills some wall street guys, guess that is not political at all, nope, definitely not saying anything about class, no sirree.

it's like if the politics doesn't line up 1:1 with a 100% degree of accuracy covering all the LGBTQ alphabet it's "Not political". then again these same critics think a lot of absolute nihilist garbage has "good politics" in it.
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
It has political undertones, like the protests by the "have-nots" and the Joker's medicine being cut off because the government stopped funding it. Mostly I thought this movie was about mental health, as you can watch the whole movie and not be able to differentiate between what was real and not real since the Joker is an unreliable narrator throughout the entire movie.
 
E

Explosive Zombie

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
haven't seen the movie yet but checking out a lot of reviews. it sounds great.

one thing i notice is people saying "This film isn't political at all" which is a silly as fuck statement to make, from the sound of the plot. for instance i hear he kills some wall street guys, guess that is not political at all, nope, definitely not saying anything about class, no sirree.

it's like if the politics doesn't line up 1:1 with a 100% degree of accuracy covering all the LGBTQ alphabet it's "Not political". then again these same critics think a lot of absolute nihilist garbage has "good politics" in it.
Click to expand...

The thing is Joker's character
isn't political, he has no political reason for killing the Wall street dudes but him doing so does spark a political movement, especially after a comment Thomas Wayne makes. His hatred of Thomas Wayne is also non-political, he has his own reasons in the film. Though I would argue the stuff to do with his laugh he can't control and the subjectivity of humor is political.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
I’m listening to Chapo talk about it they seem to think there is a lot more there than people are giving it credit for. It sounds like there is a lot of class conscious stuff in the film. He is shown being failed by the system. He has a realistic relationship with a social services worker. TBH I haven’t seen the film yet but all this sounds quite substantitive

Makes sense the SJW media would want to bury that as well, they have an inherent distrust of anything class based. Identity based is all that matters to them, and is used by the corporate media to alienate leftist movements. His identity as a straight white man is the overriding factor, any thing they say can be dismissed because of that. Notice these people deciding there is nothing there, since the identity is incorrect. It is funny to see so many people declare they won’t see it, I’m almost getting AVGN flashbacks. This time with Oscar judges! This film seems to be exposing all these frauds as intellectually checked out and irrational ideologues

Funny how when u look at the 20 or so Marvel films there is zero class consciousness or look at how the system fails people. The heros live in a bubble of layered elitist secret societies. Everyone is super rich and lives in a skyscraper. They only interact with real people if they have to save them. The heroes of the “socialist” left, everyone!
 
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crowbrow

crowbrow

Banned
Just came back from watching it. Wow, what a movie, holy shit. I knew I was going to like it after I read some stuff about it but I wasn't expecting it to exceed my expectations this way. Phoenix needs to get the Oscar, it would be a crime not to give it to him, amazing how he metamorphoses through the whole movie, mentally and physically. Such an intense performance.

The movie is really relevant for today's social and political climate, I think there are lots of layers to dissect there which is strange for a movie about an old comic character who's story is so well known to feel so real and in tune with today's context.

The thing about the Joker's apolitical persona is the irony of it becoming political. That's one of the important messages IMO, even an apolitical position is in itself political. His nihilism becomes political in the grand scheme of things and inspires a sort of revolution. His personal issues, personal as they are and disconnected from a personal political position, become political inside a society and he connects with other people in similar personal situations. Another thing I found interesting is that I think the movie can resonate with very different political groups for different but ultimately similar reasons, from groups on the right to the left the movie talks to a lot of people on many levels. It could even set a sort of common ground in some subjects between people in opposite sides of the political spectrum.

A truly remarkable film.
 
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Madevil

Madevil

Member
crowbrow said:
Just came back from watching it. Wow, what a movie, holy shit. I knew I was going to like it after I read some stuff about it but I wasn't expecting it to exceed my expectations this way. Phoenix needs to get the Oscar, it would be a crime not to give it to him, amazing how he metamorphoses through the whole movie, mentally and physically. Such an intense performance.

The movie is really relevant for today's social and political climate, I think there are lots of layers to dissect there which is strange for a movie about an old comic character who's story is so well known to feel so real and in tune with today's context.

The thing about the Joker's apolitical persona is the irony of it becoming political. That's one of the important messages IMO, even an apolitical position is in itself political. His nihilism becomes political in the grand scheme of things and inspires a sort of revolution. His personal issues, personal as they are and disconnected from a personal political position, become political inside a society and he connects with other people in similar personal situations. Another thing I found interesting is that I think the movie can resonate with very different political groups for different but ultimately similar reasons, from groups on the right to the left the movie talks to a lot of people on many levels. It could even set a sort of common ground in some subjects between people in opposite sides of the political spectrum.

A truly remarkable film.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the thing about this whole manufactured shitshow. The Joker has always been defined as pretty much a nihilist/chaotic force. He doesn't have any regard for humanity. Dude doesn't have much of a regard for himself other than staying around to create mayhem.

Good post dude.
 
sol_bad

sol_bad

Member
TheContact said:
It has political undertones, like the protests by the "have-nots" and the Joker's medicine being cut off because the government stopped funding it. Mostly I thought this movie was about mental health, as you can watch the whole movie and not be able to differentiate between what was real and not real since the Joker is an unreliable narrator throughout the entire movie.
Click to expand...

Yep, absolutely not political in my mind, the political part of the story is just an undercurrent. No meat to it's bones what so ever.
 
womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
A bigger controversy is how the hell is the Joker a middle-aged man when Bruce Wayne is only a child?

How's a 40-year-old Bruce going to fight a 80-year-old+ Joker?
 
HeresJohnny

HeresJohnny

Member
Most of the controversy was ginned up by the press cautioning (wishing) that there would be violence at the showings. You could almost feel their disappointment when there wasn't any.
 
A.Romero

A.Romero

Member
womfalcs3 said:
A bigger controversy is how the hell is the Joker a middle-aged man when Bruce Wayne is only a child?

How's a 40-year-old Bruce going to fight a 80-year-old+ Joker?
Click to expand...

Big omission just so they could do an unnecessary cameo. I think Batman's joker is another person. I think they did something like that with Gotham.
 
sol_bad

sol_bad

Member
womfalcs3 said:
A bigger controversy is how the hell is the Joker a middle-aged man when Bruce Wayne is only a child?

How's a 40-year-old Bruce going to fight a 80-year-old+ Joker?
Click to expand...

It's not really a Joker film, only in name. Change the names of the Wayne's and then what remaining is DC inspired.
 
Kev Kev

Kev Kev

Member
LTTP but i just saw the movie a couple nights ago and i thought it was great. watched a second time last night. it felt very much in the atmosphere of the dark knight. more so than even TDKR felt. phoenix was amazing as always. knew he was going to crush it.

that being said... watching things unfold towards the end, with the city on fire and the riots, really made me wonder about how many of these these george floyd protestors/rioters were inspired by it. i still dont believe any film should be held responsible for things like that, and im tickled to read that they didnt let press into the premiere bc they knew they would be typic up some bullshit takedown the next day (seriously, fuck yes to whoever made that decision at WB, it may be one of the only good decisions you guys made lol but it was a good one)

does the math add up? i dunno lets take a look

1.) joker is psycho and wants to watch the world burn
2.) woke left are psychos and want to watch their own cities burn

yep, adds up. close enough at least

in all seriousness though, anyone who is crazy enough to take inspiration from a fictional character to commit atrocities was crazy to begin with. its insane in and of itself to try and convince people that a film/movie/character/video game is responsible for bad people doing bad shit, but we see the media and politicians doing it all the time, and its almost always for their own personal gain. those people are the real psychos. they are the ones that like to stir up everyone into a frenzy and incite a riot. fuck those people.

also, i really hope we see phoenix back as the joker. he was really good and i wanna see what else he can do with the character.
 
S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
Overhyped crap that ripped off taxi driver, which is overhyped distasteful crap.

The Joker effect is that shite can be peddled to enough people that any old phlumpf is seen as good
 
Kev Kev

Kev Kev

Member
Boswollocks said:
Overhyped crap that ripped off taxi driver, which is overhyped distasteful crap.

The Joker effect is that shite can be peddled to enough people that any old phlumpf is seen as good
Click to expand...
ive never seen taxi driver but i keep hearing people say this. guess i will have to check that film out too.

is it just the "psycho guys kills talk show host on national television" or are the similarities somewhere else? i literally have never even heard of the movie
 
S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
Kev Kev said:
ive never seen taxi driver but i keep hearing people say this. guess i will have to check that film out too.

is it just the "psycho guys kills talk show host on national television" or are the similarities somewhere else? i literally have never even heard of the movie
Click to expand...
Taxi driver has promise but is largely shite. Some interesting characters that never do anything, with an ending which is also farcical in its presentation. I found Jodie Fosters character disturbing.

I see Taxi Driver and Joker sharing similarities because they're both built up to be amazing films which in reality, viewed through the lense of objectivity, are both crap.

Fwiw, I watched Joker one night and Taxi Driver (first time) the following night
 
Kev Kev

Kev Kev

Member
The Bloody-Nine said:
Taxi Driver is boring as fuck. I've never seen Joker as I saw people comparing the two.
Click to expand...
i could definitely see people saying joker was boring. in fact, i shut it off half way through the first time i tried to watch it. but i was also really tired and stoned so i kept passing out lol. but still, a less boring movie may have kept me awake

for me, joker was great bc of the whole package, but it is a bit slow at first. at any rate, i wouldnt call joker a slow burn, but it definitely keeps ramping up all the way to the end. part of it is im also excited about pheonix returning to the role of joker and being in some more DC movies. maybe him and pattinson can start something cool
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Kev Kev said:
LTTP but i just saw the movie a couple nights ago and i thought it was great. watched a second time last night. it felt very much in the atmosphere of the dark knight. more so than even TDKR felt. phoenix was amazing as always. knew he was going to crush it.

that being said... watching things unfold towards the end, with the city on fire and the riots, really made me wonder about how many of these these george floyd protestors/rioters were inspired by it. i still dont believe any film should be held responsible for things like that, and im tickled to read that they didnt let press into the premiere bc they knew they would be typic up some bullshit takedown the next day (seriously, fuck yes to whoever made that decision at WB, it may be one of the only good decisions you guys made lol but it was a good one)

does the math add up? i dunno lets take a look

1.) joker is psycho and wants to watch the world burn
2.) woke left are psychos and want to watch their own cities burn

yep, adds up. close enough at least

in all seriousness though, anyone who is crazy enough to take inspiration from a fictional character to commit atrocities was crazy to begin with. its insane in and of itself to try and convince people that a film/movie/character/video game is responsible for bad people doing bad shit, but we see the media and politicians doing it all the time, and its almost always for their own personal gain. those people are the real psychos. they are the ones that like to stir up everyone into a frenzy and incite a riot. fuck those people.

also, i really hope we see phoenix back as the joker. he was really good and i wanna see what else he can do with the character.
Click to expand...
No. It's the same tortured fantasy "what if" logic that makes some liberals think that this movie was going to lead to some kind of white nationalism incel riot.
 
Cutty Flam

Cutty Flam

Banned
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