• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The King of Fighters XIV |OT| ¡VIVA REY DE DINOSAURIOS!

BadWolf

Member
$1000 pot bonus for XIV at Rumble in the Tundra.

Sheeesh, that's pretty bad. Xiao Hai is still the undisputed king in 98' though, at least from what I heard and remember.

Yeah he seems to do quite well in the older ones. Wonder how things will stack up with XIV, so far Koreans are the most impressive imo.

Kukri's f A is garbage.

It's really not.

- Combos from strong and light attacks
- He is considered in the air when he does it and can go over attacks and fireballs
- Can be used as an anti-air of sorts

It's only real flaw is that it whiffs on crouchers on block but that's not really an issue since Kukri can connect it after three crouching attacks, which should give you more than enough time to hit confirm. His st. HP is also 2 hits and lets you hit confirm.
 

BadWolf

Member
And God I hate it

Only on block.

If you do it after a normal that hits successfully then it will combo on both crouching and standing opponents.

Just hit confirm, it's easy with him. Not many characters can combo easily into a command normal after that many lights and land full combos after, it's a definite plus for him.
 

Relique

Member
There are many things I found really silly here, reminds me of the XIII arcade version :

- You already mentioned Mature EX moves.
- Love Heart crouch C -> double sword -> super / neomax is so braindead easy and so little risk it makes no sense.
- Athena / K' damage is insane for such complete characters with insane zoning tools.
- The Bird !

On the other side of this coin, there are so many low tiers characters with moves not only really weak / impractical + high risk compared to the easy / delirious shit some of the high tiers got, I'm convinced balancing was not done when they launched and they're still working on it. 50 characters is no easy task.

I'm sure I forgot things in that list, but I expect MANY buffs/nerfs along the cast coming sooner than later.

I was already seeing balance problems from the footage we had prelaunch and when I got the game a little early it was very obvious. I pretty much saw a lot dumb stuff coming from a mile away... except Nakoruru because I didn't put any lab time with her and some of her strong properties aren't apparent at first glance. I don't have as much of a problem about some characters being strong than I do with characters being blatantly weak.

Characters like Chang and Choi go without saying. Even some returning characters from 13 had mind boggling changes. Like Clark whose normals got completely gutted and the tools he gained don't work too well in the current metagame.

I feel like that early ET tier list (people said it was Xiao Hai's) is almost spot on and there is a clear theme going on there. All the fireball characters are in the top half and most of the non fireball characters are in the bottom half. I feel like some of the lower tier characters in the list are a bit under rated like Hein who I main. I feel like he is listed too low because he deals well with other no-fireball and no-invincible reversal characters like him. But the higher tiers are pretty much spot on. Anyway, I don't think the problems of this game can be easily fixed with a patch.

As it stands, only half of the roster is seeing play and that is being generous. As time goes on that list will shrink and eventually the characters that are quite good but require a lot of work will probably see less play too. We are already seeing Asia gravitate towards the same 10 characters or so.

I admit I am part of the problem. The bottom line is why would I want to pick Vice who is quite good but requires a lot of work to fight an Athena when I can just pick Robert and have an easier time? Maybe it's a case of L2P but I am above average at kof and there are many opponents who I beat cleanly with the likes of Mai and Robert and King without breaking a sweat, but when I pick Nelson and Clark against their Athena and Nakoruru they start taking games.
 

BadWolf

Member
I feel like that early ET tier list (people said it was Xiao Hai's) is almost spot on and there is a clear theme going on there. All the fireball characters are in the top half and most of the non fireball characters are in the bottom half. I feel like some of the lower tier characters in the list are a bit under rated like Hein who I main. I feel like he is listed too low because he deals well with other no-fireball and no-invincible reversal characters like him. But the higher tiers are pretty much spot on. Anyway, I don't think the problems of this game can be easily fixed with a patch.

That tier list was bogus, it was made by a Japanese player. Via MMCafe's Professor:

That's from Umezono, 3rdStrike Tougeki 2007 finalist and director of the Yatagarasu fighting game series.

He only cared about the top tiers so everything below the halfway mark isn't really thought out, lol.


This read like something Kukri would post.

The best part about winning with him is seeing his win quotes lol.
 

Relique

Member
Ok so i wasnt crazy when i said K' is a stupid character. That tournament solidifies it.

Has anybody seen any good Kukri play? I've tried using him on my team since Day 1 and its just not working out for me, hes solely the reason why I'm losing the vast majority of my matches. You can't really zone with him since his projectiles don't even reach full screen and can be hopped over. Can't play footsies/neutral since his normals are either too slow/short. It's really hard to reliably AA the opponent especially during full jump. I can see where they we're going with him by having a character all about setups but i feel like hes put in a wrong game with how everyone can just hop around with random moves and not get punished for it. I'm really thinking about dropping him but i still want to give him more time.


I think his jumpin normals are not good. Jump HP, HK, and CD all have slow startup which makes it hard to hop with them and convert damage. On top of that they have a lot of pushback, often leaving you too far to get a close stand C even if you hit or get them to block. To make things worse, if you accidentally get the far version of C it can whiff over opponents, leaving you vulnerable. Getting them to block it isn't much better, it's very negative and not special cancellable. His close D has the same issues... low startup, and very negative, and can't be special cancelled. I feel like rarely ever use his heavy normals except the two below.

Far D has great range but is also extremely negative. I use it often but it has to be special cancelled to sand. His crouch D is also very good, only -2 on block but there isn't much you can do from that anyway besides cancel into sand.

Kukri is pretty good but requires a lot of work. The problem is that the character's strength is supposed to be strong mixups but his good normals are better suited for zoning than pressure. So it's hard to get a knockdown to start you off. Most of his normals are very specific or just flat out bad. They are so negative you pretty much have no choice but special cancel them to sand, pushing the opponent away from you.

His light attacks also have very little hit stun which can be a problem online, since the forward A whiffs on crouchers, if you get a low B and try to confirm into forward A it can easily whiff, leaving you very vulnerable. It's also pretty difficult to BC cancel for the same reason of low hitstun.

I feel like succeeding with Kukri needs 2 things:

1) Gotta be patient. He can't get away with mindlessly hopping on the opponent like some characters can. Play the neutral game with his sand Fireball and throw out stand B to stop hops, conditioning the opponent to stand still. If you can bait a jump and backdash early you can anti air them with the fireball before they land. If you can condition the opponent to block your pressure by ending light attacks with sand, you can maybe get away with jumping after them or doing his instant overhead. If you get instant overhead off then you have some decent setups from it. (Safejumps, meaty teleport sand clone, meaty buttons, another overhead.. etc)

2) Gotta be really good with confirming from his low B. Either go into qcf B into super or better yet, the forward A. Getting a close stand C is pretty hard with him, so is getting a clean jumpin. Your best bet is to convert off of lows so you need to confirm those consistently.

Good luck.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
I admit I am part of the problem. The bottom line is why would I want to pick Vice who is quite good but requires a lot of work to fight an Athena when I can just pick Robert and have an easier time? Maybe it's a case of L2P but I am above average at kof and there are many opponents who I beat cleanly with the likes of Mai and Robert and King without breaking a sweat, but when I pick Nelson and Clark against their Athena and Nakoruru they start taking games.

Heeh, I totally understand. I tried to make Banderas work for a while now (and also tried Nelson), but the ammount of work and concentration needed is insane to at least make it even against all the Kings, Love, Athena & cie running rampant, and I have a life too so... ^^

Even K' got a bullshit I haven't seen since the SFIV vanilla era : The "Sagat Special" when you trade with his anti-air and takes a full combo -> super as a result.
 

JTCx

Member
Far D has great range but is also extremely negative. I use it often but it has to be special cancelled to sand. His crouch D is also very good, only -2 on block but there isn't much you can do from that anyway besides cancel into sand.

Thats pretty much what my neutral game revolves around. Straight up far D into sand projectile or cr.D into sand. Occasional hop back B for air to air. I try to use st. B for anti air since that move obviously looks like it was meant for that, but characters like K' and King dont care.

The way I deal with jump-ins is QCB+LK (has invincibility post start up) and his teleports (especially against long jumps). His teleports are great for this since he not only gets out of the way clean but leaves a sand image behind which the opponent can land into so you can start your own pressure immediately.

Are you sure its post invincibility on start up? I've been beat a few times out of it when trading air to air.

His st. HP is also 2 hits and lets you hit confirm.

His st. HP is really wonky at times he needs to be straight up close for it to hit twice or else the last hit will just whiff.
 

BadWolf

Member
Are you sure its post invincibility on start up? I've been beat a few times out of it when trading air to air.

Yup, there is a window there during the flip.

It's invincibility post start up btw, as in it has i-frames later and not on start up.

His st. HP is really wonky at times he needs to be straight up close for it to hit twice or else the last hit will just whiff.

I don't really use it outside of obvious punishes. My go to normal for combos after jumpins and in the neutral is cr. HP. It has solid range, is cancelable and combos after jump-ins. It may have less range than st. D but it's faster on start up and great for punishes. Cancel into sand and use those two hits to confirm into super every time.
 
Yup, there is a window there during the flip.

It's invincibility post start up btw, as in it has i-frames later and not on start up.



I don't really use it outside of obvious punishes. My go to normal for combos after jumpins and in the neutral is cr. HP. It has solid range, is cancelable and combos after jump-ins. It may have less range than st. D but it's faster on start up and great for punishes. Cancel into sand and use those two hits to confirm into super every time.

I feel like Kukri could be this game's Duo Lon. That is, he's a character that doesn't seem incredibly difficult or good at first glance, but at high-levels he's a good anti-top tier pick and can play super solid.
 

BadWolf

Member
Been playing Chin the past few days, being super strong in XIII aside he was very cool there with a great move set. It's very unfortunate that he lost the ducking, quickie punches, stance cancels etc. in XIV, they really added that extra flavor of drunken boxingness to his play. His overhead has been nerfed to heck and back now as well.

On the plus side he still hits like a truck, very high damage output, and his counters make people think twice about spamming stuff like burn knuckles and other safe silliness. The roll is still good at dealing with fireballs too. His EX roll has been nerfed in terms of its XIII use but it does have a new function now and can still lead to big damage. Having his shoulder super be available without drinks is a huge plus.

His far standing HP is still cancelable but the range feels reduced, like I do it and expect it to hit but often whiff. His far standing HK still isn't cancelable but it has better range than HP so I use it more often for pokes now. The new standing LK seems like a decent anti-air normal and hits at an angle which his XIII normals didn't cover.

I feel like Kukri could be this game's Duo Lon. That is, he's a character that doesn't seem incredibly difficult or good at first glance, but at high-levels he's a good anti-top tier pick and can play super solid.

Agreed, he has some really great tools both with and without meter. He can be very tricky and counter things that give others trouble.

Overall so far mostly old familiars that people can easily learn quickly are dominating (and Nakoruru), not enough time has passed for people to get good with the new characters yet. Heck, even Shun'ei who is clearly very strong and has Shen damage isn't really having much of a showing.

Let's not forget that it wasn't until Madkof won Evo with Chin, Kim and Duolon that people actually noticed those characters in XIII.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Took me way too long to make.

JDeRnOv.gif
 

Kuksune

Member
Mai is finally released in DOA and she's really fun to play with.
She has some normals that can be canceled into 214p, 214p+k, 236p or 236k.
 
GGs Khalil. Probably not very fun for you since I'm a total scrub. I got a lot to learn still.



The learning curve is definitely pretty steep. The fundamentals are still completely lost on me and the only character I do "well" with is King because I rely on her specials to cover up that fact.

Is there any extensive frame data list out on this game yet? I feel like if I could start learning what button(s) I could or should push under certain circumstances that would help a little.

It's all good. I'm still learning too actually.
 

Amedo310

Member
Terry has a wonky hitbox that places him in abnormal situations at the corner. If he gets under the opponent while they are high up in the air and he gets under the opponent from a jump himself, he will either have his has back to the opponent for a split second or end up at the corner himself. All of these situations will be shown in videos, which were done in training mode with Iori set to jump constantly at the corner. I have three examples of Terry's hitbox. These situations aren't really practical, but something to be aware of Terry does something like the stuff in the video during a match.

Example 1, Terry's jump lands under Iori without attacking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acqibdRGfc8

Example 2, Terry's jump lands under Iori after attacking with jump CD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYhFdNUqU0Y

Example 3, Terry's jump lands under Iori after attacking with jump D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhkCedYcifw
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Any suggestions for a 'mid. character. Currently working off Andy on point, and Roberto of the excellent moustache as Anchor, but can't seem to find anyone who really sits well in that middle position, and benefits from having 1250 gauge/1-2bar combos.
 

BadWolf

Member
Any suggestions for a 'mid. character. Currently working off Andy on point, and Roberto of the excellent moustache as Anchor, but can't seem to find anyone who really sits well in that middle position, and benefits from having 1250 gauge/1-2bar combos.

You can put whoever you want in there really, most of the cast, if not all, will work well in that position.

If you want good damage output for 1-2 bars then look into Chin, Vice, Shun'ei, Ramon, Zarina, Luong, Ralf etc.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Online experience has been pretty bad for me. Every free match is across the planet so only random ranked is left.

On 100 matches I only had 10 in full speed. Slo-mo is the rest. I'm actually praising the netcode because it's a miracle anything works when I'm probably connected to someone in Chile. It's just the experience is shit.


Tier whoring to max, most matches are Nakorurus, Athenas, K, Roberts and Lovehearts.
Everyone and their granny has Robert or Nakoruru in their team. And when I somehow beat them - ragequit.
Rage quitting to neomax levels. It's ridiculous. Beat opponent's 2 chars and toss a coin if they gonna ragequit next. Do they want to beat MK9 players (who had thousands of ragequits at one point.)?
There are also bugs(because of ragequits?) when the game freezes mid match and it takes even 6+ minutes to detect that the connection was broken also can happen when loading next character, those 4 dots will swirl forever. The best thing is that if you don't wanna wait forever and restart, the game gives penalties to you.

I don't know if there is much sense playing this online for an EU player.

I think I'll have some fun offline because the game is crazy fun, and I'll wrap it up. Maybe when ppl from Europe actually buy the game it's gonna be worth to come back.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Unlike Capcom, SNK's probably gonna have this patched within a month or so.
Doesn't Capcom fix gameplay-related glitches ASAP? They got on the Ibuki whiffed air grab glitch rather quickly. It's only balance patches that are annual. But if you're referring to patches outside of gameplay, then yeah, Capcom takes their sweet time.

Either way, I'm sure SNK will get on this.
 

Xevren

Member
I don't know what the fuck happened but since the firmware update the online has felt like ass. Connecting to rooms is awful, and when I finally get connected it's just been insanely laggy. Sucks.
 
So I had settled on a team of iori/terry/k' with Geese thrown in sometimes depending on who I wanted to play. I haven't played in about 2 weeks due to other games taking up my time and I come back to read that k' is busted and like his XIII arcade iteration. Feels bad man.

Have there been any rumblings as to what nerfs he will be getting. I haven't seen much footage of him and I hate playing characters that are deemed OP from the fact they always get nerfed pretty hard in these games. Also cananyone link some of his shenanigans? I haven't seen any of his powerful tools in use.
 
I don't know what the fuck happened but since the firmware update the online has felt like ass. Connecting to rooms is awful, and when I finally get connected it's just been insanely laggy. Sucks.

had the same problem yesterday. played mostly laggers in ranked. but maybe it's just the dwindling player base in my case, connecting me to people further away.
 

Amedo310

Member
So I had settled on a team of iori/terry/k' with Geese thrown in sometimes depending on who I wanted to play. I haven't played in about 2 weeks due to other games taking up my time and I come back to read that k' is busted and like his XIII arcade iteration. Feels bad man.

Have there been any rumblings as to what nerfs he will be getting. I haven't seen much footage of him and I hate playing characters that are deemed OP from the fact they always get nerfed pretty hard in these games. Also cananyone link some of his shenanigans? I haven't seen any of his powerful tools in use.

1. Narrow spike being -1 or -2 on block.
2. Easy damage for less resources and off random narrow spike or second shell.

I think they should focus more on some system mechanic bugs like corner ones and the old mvc3 socd bug.
 

BadWolf

Member
Some frame data for K', Terry, Athena, Nakoruru, Love Heart and Robert is now available.

Tried Meitenkun and will probably have to stop playing him, people are quitting way too much on me because of him lol.

Also played Sylvie, so fun and wacky. Combos are simple and she has nice hit confirms. Her electric projectile has been very effective for me so far. Bypass seems good with her too. Kinda wish her anti-air did more damage.

Joe's zoning game seems on point, his normals seem solid and fast. His slash kick looks unsafe but can still be effective due its speed and when combined with his slow tornado. He does good damage outside of max mode, though you have to be careful with his command normals during combos. His far st. D is a great poke now but the range on his st. CD feels reduced. Don't know if it's just me but I wasn't able to cancel the command normal slide into mash punches like in XIII when I tried it quickly.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Some frame data for K', Terry, Athena, Nakoruru, Love Heart and Robert is now available.

Tried Meitenkun and will probably have to stop playing him, people are quitting way too much on me because of him lol.

Also played Sylvie, so fun and wacky. Combos are simple and she has nice hit confirms. Her electric projectile has been very effective for me so far. Bypass seems good with her too.

Joe's zoning game seems on point, his normals seem solid and fast. His slash kick looks unsafe but can still be effective due its speed and when combined with his slow tornado. He does good damage outside of max mode, though you have to be careful with his command normals during combos. His command normal slide feels nerfed compared to XIII.

Sweet post.

I can just add tiny bit to Joe: For the most part forget about doing full hk, b+lk, f+lk combos, f+lk whiffs crouchers. b+lk hits crouchers and can be comboed from eg. cr.lk,st.lk, b+lk or cr.lk cr.lp, b+lk. H.Slash kick combos after b+lk.
 

BadWolf

Member
Sweet post.

I can just add tiny bit to Joe: For the most part forget about doing full hk, b+lk, f+lk combos, f+lk whiffs crouchers. b+lk hits crouchers and can be comboed from eg. cr.lk,st.lk, b+lk or cr.lk cr.lp, b+lk. H.Slash kick combos after b+lk.

Yeah good point, this is very important if you are going to play Joe. Most of the combos you see in his combo vids involve the two command normals together but those only work on standing opponents.

His back+LK does hit crouchers so there's at least that but you still have to be careful of using it in block strings because it can whiff due to push back on block when they crouch. So gotta make sure to test your strings on crouch blocking opponents as well, especially with jump-ins.

Too bad they put limitations on using these command normals together, they make his combos look pretty cool.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Yeah good point, this is very important if you are going to play Joe. Most of the combos you see in his combo vids involve the two command normals but those only work on standing opponents.

His back+LK does hit crouchers so there's at least that but you still have to be careful of using it in block strings because it can whiff due to push back on block when they crouch. So gotta make sure to test your strings on crouch blocking opponents as well, especially with jump-ins.

Too bad they put limitations on using these command normals together, they make his combos look pretty cool.

Agreed. Hope they buff Joe in a patch. (If SNK has budget for a patch.)
 

Xevren

Member
I hope it will fix the connection bars so filtering can be useful. I also could have sworn that they said that rage quitters would be punished hard before the release of the game...
 
Top Bottom