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[Swipeyowifelike]

Am I really reading people not agreeing with a characters actions as being plot holes? I think folks hear a critic say certain things, quickly glance at urban dictionary for a definition and just run with it.

 

[Nautilus]

So not 2 years regardless of how pathetic I am? Really WTF are you saying?

That you were trying desperately to say "But it was 1,5 years!!!" in a very pathetic way when in reality its just so close to two years that its easier to say two years.(Or go ahead, keep saying that it did 10 million in 23 months)

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Am I really reading people not agreeing with a characters actions as being plot holes? I think folks hear a critic say certain things, quickly glance at urban dictionary for a definition and just run with it.

A smart action a day keeps the plot holes away

 

[Hezekiah]

I'm talking about disc sales and i'm using price search engines like idealo or geizkragen. Amazon is actually never the cheapest place for games.

Yes but Amazon sells far higher volumes of games than other retailers so is more meaningful.

And far more games are sold digitally than physically.

So if we're talking about average prices of games, the Amazon and the Playstation Store are much more relevant here

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

He didn't even get shot in the head lol. The bullet sraped the side of his face. Hence the scar

He lost his eye. It wasn't a last action hero situation.

That you were trying desperately to say "But it was 1,5 years!!!" in a very pathetic way when in reality its just so close to two years that its easier to say two years.(Or go ahead, keep saying that it did 10 million in 23 months)

How does a person say it hasn't been 2 years in a pathetic way? I'm guessing not realizing it wasn't 2 is the real show of strength. 10 mil is 10 mil baby!! Deal with that.

 

[Majormaxxx]

It's been a while since I've played TloU but IIRC, the ending was that Ellie had to be sacrificed so that a cure can be developed and the rest of humanity can be saved. I think that is what is called "For the greater good" and I think saving humanity over it was worth it, no matter how harsh it is.

When it comes to your child - biological or not, there is no greater good. That is what is unique about being a parent. You can sacrifice yourself for the greater good. But your child?

 

[Nautilus]

He lost his eye. It wasn't a last action hero situation.

How does a person say it hasn't been 2 years in a pathetic way? I'm guessing not realizing it wasn't 2 is the real show of strength. 10 mil is 10 mil baby!! Deal with that.

 

[Clear]

In the same game it shows that Joel is the same distristing man as he has been in the first game.It wasn't a characterization, it was just a plain old mistake, a plot hole.They couldn't find anything more believable and said fuck it.

And I did just told you why plot holes are inherently bad.They are mistakes done by the story teller that takes the player away from the immersion.Some are worse than others, but nobody say "this game has plot holes" like its a good thing.Its you who didn't like my answer, but that's on you.

Joel isn't the one who "fucks up", if anyone its Tommy because he gives away their identities. They near blindly flee in a Blizzard with a character who they've already had to give a degree of trust to in order to survive an onslaught of infected.

You can criticize the setup for being somewhat contrived, but the character work isn't at fault. In fact this whole notion that they did anything destructive to Joel's personality/motivations is laughable when the game basically closes with a flashback where he literally states that given the chance for a do-over, he'd do the exact same thing again. That his story ending is more Jesse James being assassinated by the coward Robert Ford than Davey Crockett at the Alamo fits with the fatalistic world view of the franchise.

Its kinda funny to me, because this issue is very much a "speech you hate isn't hate speech" type of deal, only one running in the opposite direction politically to the usual.

 

[Rykan]

When it comes to your child - biological or not, there is no greater good. That is what is unique about being a parent. You can sacrifice yourself for the greater good. But your child?

But that is the purely emotional response to that situation. I don't think that is the rational response to a situation where one life can save all of humanity.

 

[Wohc]

Yes but Amazon sells far higher volumes of games than other retailers so is more meaningful.

And far more games are sold digitally than physically.

So if we're talking about average prices of games, the Amazon and the Playstation Store are much more relevant here

Where people buy doesn't change the fact that the price drops and that'S what e was talking about. If people are stupid and pay 50-80 instead of 30, that's their fault.

 

[Majormaxxx]

But that is the purely emotional response to that situation. I don't think that is the rational response to a situation where one life can save all of humanity.

What is the value of all of humanity if you lose the most valuable to you? You cannot be purely rational and say 1 life < more than 1 life. We are not robots.

 

[assurdum]

Why the Ellie face with some expressions sometimes is really weird and ugly ? Same absurdity in the sequel Jeesh.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Why the Ellie face in some expressions sometimes is really weird and ugly as the sequel? Jeesh.

I think they changed it in some scenes to make it resemble part 2.

 

[Business]

Am I really reading people not agreeing with a characters actions as being plot holes? I think folks hear a critic say certain things, quickly glance at urban dictionary for a definition and just run with it.

 

[assurdum]

I think they changed it in some scenes to make it resemble part 2.

I guess they tried to change the Ellie face just to make it more similar to the actress but good Lord sometimes is so off.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

 

[Nautilus]

Joel isn't the one who "fucks up", if anyone its Tommy because he gives away their identities. They near blindly flee in a Blizzard with a character who they've already had to give a degree of trust to in order to survive an onslaught of infected.

You can criticize the setup for being somewhat contrived, but the character work isn't at fault. In fact this whole notion that they did anything destructive to Joel's personality/motivations is laughable when the game basically closes with a flashback where he literally states that given the chance for a do-over, he'd do the exact same thing again. That his story ending is more Jesse James being assassinated by the coward Robert Ford than Davey Crockett at the Alamo fits with the fatalistic world view of the franchise.

Its kinda funny to me, because this issue is very much a "speech you hate isn't hate speech" type of deal, only one running in the opposite direction politically to the usual.

You obviously had to blame politics when that particular plot hole has nothing to do with politics lol

But you do you. That is clearly bad writing, so if you can't see that, I don't think you ever will, no matter how much evidence is thrown your way.

 

[Majormaxxx]

I guess they tried to change the Ellie face just to make it more similar to the actress but God Lord sometimes is so off.

to me, it looks less classically attractive - meaning less symmetry and proportionality.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

 

[Nautilus]

 

[assurdum]

to me, it looks less classically attractive - meaning less symmetry and proportionality.

Nah, go to check the actress. She is more similar now. They did the same with Elena but the reverse (because the actress was definitely more attractive than Elena in the first Uncharted). Probably is something relative to the face animations capture.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Nah, go to check the actress. She is more similar now. They did the same with Elena but the reverse (because the actress was definitely more attractive than Elena in the first Uncharted). Probably is something relative to the face animations capture.

Everybody had a goofy ass face in the first Uncharted in hindsight. Nate looking like he did all the Molly with them bug eyes .

 

[Clear]

You obviously had to blame politics when that particular plot hole has nothing to do with politics lol

But you do you. That is clearly bad writing, so if you can't see that, I don't think you ever will, no matter how much evidence is thrown your way.

As someone who's written professionally, I'm pretty happy with my assessment and the criteria I used to derive it. There is no additional evidence to consider.

Also, it'd be disingenuous not to take note of the fact that the backlash against the game was highly politicized from the start, and it colours a lot of the criticism.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

As someone who's written professionally, I'm pretty happy with my assessment and the criteria I used to derive it. There is no additional evidence to consider.

Also, it'd be disingenuous not to take note of the fact that the backlash against the game was highly politicized from the start, and it colours a lot of the criticism.

Did you really find the setup for the meet and eventual reveal contrived? I remember it being setup, especially with the dueling perspectives.

 

[Nautilus]

As someone who's written professionally, I'm pretty happy with my assessment and the criteria I used to derive it. There is no additional evidence to consider.

Also, it'd be disingenuous not to take note of the fact that the backlash against the game was highly politicized from the start, and it colours a lot of the criticism.

Says you.Clearly the majority don't think like that, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be taking place even now, two years after the fact.

And sure, it was highly politicized, but that's because the game is filled with political topics that the devs themselves introduced into the game.So skipping them is simply impossible. So those topics don't colour the criticism, its part of why most hate the gane, because it's an intrinsic part of the game.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Says you.Clearly the majority don't think like that, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be taking place even now, two years after the fact.

And sure, it was highly politicized, but that's because the game is filled with political topics that the devs themselves introduced into the game.So skipping them is simply impossible. So those topics don't colour the criticism, its part of why most hate the gane, because it's an intrinsic part of the game.

How do you get a majority, one way or another, feels a certain way because a discussion is taking place? Flat earth is a thing that's discussed and for a long time.

 

[THEAP99]

I assume factions 2 is next gen only then? Sounds like it's going to be beefy

 

[Nautilus]

How do you get a majority, one way or another, feels a certain way because a discussion is taking place? Flat earth is a thing that's discussed and for a long time.

How do you not get that is a majority, given the lower than expected performance and people still saying the game is shit even 2 years after the release?

 

[Clear]

Did you really find the setup for the meet and eventual reveal contrived? I remember it being setup, especially with the dueling perspectives.

Its contrived in the sense that its based on tragic coincidence, which is a hard sell at the start of a story as opposed to its end. Its built to and foreshadowed well, but being basically the cold open to the body of the plot I'm not sure if it hits as convincingly as it should.

I've gone back and forth mentally over the merits and demerits of the game's structure over the course of way too many discussions of the matter, and my feeling is that while I respect what they chose its not the way I'd have gone. Which I fully accept maybe would have turned out less well because there's always stuff I haven't fully considered due to not having seen the full story play out in that order.

That being said, the objective truth is that we are still discussing this two years on - which when all's said and done is I suspect what was intended. TLOU2 is a confronting and divisive game, and that's a rarity in the AAA space.

 

[mortal]

Wow even after all this time, TLOU2 still grinds the gears of some people.

Not only has it sold well & is critically acclaimed, it still generates pages and pages of heated discourse well after its release.

 

[arvfab]

Says you.Clearly the majority don't think like that, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be taking place even now, two years after the fact.

And sure, it was highly politicized, but that's because the game is filled with political topics that the devs themselves introduced into the game.So skipping them is simply impossible. So those topics don't colour the criticism, its part of why most hate the gane, because it's an intrinsic part of the game.

Rarely read such amount of bullshit in so little amount of words.

 

[Hezekiah]

Where people buy doesn't change the fact that the price drops and that'S what e was talking about. If people are stupid and pay 50-80 instead of 30, that's their fault.

I think you're missing the point. This is what I was replying to:

Plus, sony games crater so fast in price that these empty figures dont really have much meaning these days if 80% of the copies after the first 3 months are sold at 10 bucks

That post is wrong, this only happens for games which flop or have terrible word of mouth (Cyberpunk, Avengers, BF2042 etc, hardly ever for Sony games) because the majority of games are sold digitally, or at massive retailers like Amazon at or close to full price, and relatively speaking very few gamers are buying games from the retailers you mentioned because most people either havent even heard of them, and because Amazon is like 100 times bigger

 

[Nautilus]

Rarely read such amount of bullshit in so little amount of words.

I understand you.I just had the same feeling reading your reply.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Its contrived in the sense that its based on tragic coincidence, which is a hard sell at the start of a story as opposed to its end. Its built to and foreshadowed well, but being basically the cold open to the body of the plot I'm not sure if it hits as convincingly as it should.

I've gone back and forth mentally over the merits and demerits of the game's structure over the course of way too many discussions of the matter, and my feeling is that while I respect what they chose its not the way I'd have gone. Which I fully accept maybe would have turned out less well because there's always stuff I haven't fully considered due to not having seen the full story play out in that order.

That being said, the objective truth is that we are still discussing this two years on - which when all's said and done is I suspect what was intended. TLOU2 is a confronting and divisive game, and that's a rarity in the AAA space.

I get exactly you putting down. Maybe the only reason the coincidence worked for me was because it was a sequel and not really the beginning in my eye. The structure of it all was a bit jarring, but it worked for me. I think a traditional narrative structure would have been detrimental even if more palatable.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel isn't the one who "fucks up", if anyone its Tommy because he gives away their identities. They near blindly flee in a Blizzard with a character who they've already had to give a degree of trust to in order to survive an onslaught of infected.

You can criticize the setup for being somewhat contrived, but the character work isn't at fault. In fact this whole notion that they did anything destructive to Joel's personality/motivations is laughable when the game basically closes with a flashback where he literally states that given the chance for a do-over, he'd do the exact same thing again. That his story ending is more Jesse James being assassinated by the coward Robert Ford than Davey Crockett at the Alamo fits with the fatalistic world view of the franchise.

Eh, it still questionable that Tommy would give out their names like that when he now knows of Joel's past. And letting yourself be surrounded by armed strangers in a room before at least finding out more what that they're doing so close to their hometown strikes me as dumb when they're supposed to be patrol guards.

Joel acting in character at the end doesn't mean he also did at the beginning.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

How do you not get that is a majority, given the lower than expected performance and people still saying the game is shit even 2 years after the release?

Which people? Sauce?

 

[Helghan]

It won't be a MP game mode. It will be a full, separate standalone AAA MP game. So no.

So people are getting refunds then? You bought a $70 game with the promise of a MP game mode in it... Now they just decide that MP will be a separate game and cost you money. And we should just accept that? You can't make this shit up

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Eh, it still questionable that Tommy would give out their names like that when he now knows of Joel's past. And letting yourself be surrounded by armed strangers in a room before at least finding out more what that they're doing so close to their hometown strikes me as dumb when they're supposed to be patrol guards.

Joel acting in character at the end doesn't mean he also did at the beginning.

They each gave their names, but why should it matter? They helped and was ready for a psycho revenge muscle shark was on the hunt. The why so close was discussed, mistakes were made.none of these characters are meant to be infallible.

 

[Nautilus]

Which people? Sauce?

Human beings.You know, the ones you work and live with. Not aliens and green people like Druckmann.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

How do you not get that is a majority, given the lower than expected performance and people still saying the game is shit even 2 years after the release?

 

[DForce]

Lol first of all, you replied to me once, and never asked me to list any plot holes, so let's exist in reality to start with.

Well to no surprise, your points are rather predictable and you don't know what a plot hole is.

Secondly, I have to seriously question anyone who suggests that the game has "no plot holes", because that tells me that you don't actually have a clue what that term means.
Plot hole: an inconsistency in the narrative or character development of a story... You're really going to try and act like TLOU2 has NO inconsistencies in the story?
Examples of types of plot holes include: unbelievable storylines, unbelievable character actions, characters changing personalities without warning, deus ex machina events, continuity errors, logic holes, narrative holes, etc.... are you REALLY suggesting that none of these things exist in TLOU2?

No, you're just throwing definitions out there. Fictional stories are not based on reality. The entire concept of The Last of Us is in fact "unbelievable" from a real world logical standpoint.

These are all things that took attentive players out of the story...

Ok, so literally the ENTIRE sequence between when Abby and Owen arrive in Jackson and when Abby kills Joel, that is one gigantic string of deus ex machina events, as in it a series of wildly convenient story points that taken on the whole, are not believable.

I'm not sure if you know this, but most stories have conveniences, even your favorite movies. In The Last of Us Part II, Ellie was able to perform surgery (unbelievable, mind you) and magically runs into David who has medicine for Joel.

Again, this is not a plot hole.

It's established that there were Ex-fireflies living in Jackson because they picked a few ex-fireflies at the gate of the community. Eugue was also living in Jackson, too.

Now you may call that a plot hole, but you don't realize that Joel didn't go by a name, he was called, "The smuggler." Abby knew about Joel's name because she was with her father when the conversation took place with Marlene about Joel and Ellie.

As far as we know, the only people who knew about Joel are only a handful of people, not every single member of the Fireflies.

Continued below...

No matter what the defense brigade says, Joel and Tommy instantly giving away their names and location is a character plot hole, based on what we know of the characters in the first game. And NO, there's ZERO evidence that Joel has become more relaxed and complacent in Jackson, quite the opposite in fact. Several times, it is mentioned that Joel considers the patrols to be dangerous still. He has no illusion of safety. I have seen that ridiculous excuse used many times.

We know Joel's name was given to Henry and Sam. I know, you're going to say that Henry was with a kid but that doesn't change the fact that he was willing to follow him to an unknown location.

But looking at the scenario again, Joel didn't give his name, it was Tommy. Tommy gave Abby her name well before Tommy knew she had "friends."

Joel wouldn't be able to lie about his name when finally realizes that he was surrounded by other people.

Knowing Joel specially mentions Tommy's name in battle with the infected, Abby likely already knew Tommy's name before he gave it to her.

Tommy surving a gunshot to the back of the head, with no medical care around for over 1000 miles? Please don't defend THAT crap! Let alone Ellie and Dina being concussed/ has an arrow through the shoulder. Asinine decision to not explain any of that.

You're talking about non life threatening injuries.

Tommy wasn't shot in the back of the head, he was shot through the side of his face, which penetrated his eye. That's where the scar is located and not the back of his head.

But if you want to get technical, Joel's injury in TLOU 1 would have likely been fatal. The amount of blood that he lost and where the injury took place (even removing the metal rod) would kill him in just hours.

An arrow through the shoulder is not fatal.
A concussion is not fatal
A dislocated arm is not fatal.
Many people throughout history lost an eye in battle. It would be extremely painful but not fatal.

Abby leaving Ellie and Tommy alive is a plot hole, because it is a rather unbelievable event.

That's like saying every villain letting a superhero live is a plot hole.
You don't look at all villains as murders, you look at them based on their nature and their beliefs.

Thanos didn't kill Tony Stark in Infinity War because he respected him. Thanos wasn't a typical "villain" he was fighting for a cause that he believed was right.

The Joker had many opportunities to kill Batman but he didn't. If you don't know why he does this then research this.

In Abby's case, she is not a murderer or a villain, nor is she even portrayed as one.

Abby wanted revenge for killing Joel while Ellie and Tommy were seen as innocent. Similarly, Dina didn't want to do anything to Leah because she didn't kill Joel. She just wanted to question her. If you think it's unbelievable that they would let Tommy and Ellie go then go look up how many people were murdered and then let bystanders/witnesses live.

Abby leaving them all alive the second time, even more unbelievable.

She wanted to kill them, but she would've lost favor with Lev.

Ellie leaving Abby alive at the end, after killing hundreds of people, traveling over 3000 miles via multiple trips, saying the whole time "she better not be dead, so I can kill her"... and then at the very end , let's her live? Massive character plot hole there.

This is what happens when you don't follow the story.

Ellie arrives in Seattle looking for Abby. That's her primary goal.

What happens when she gets there?

She's in the middle of a war between the Seraphites and the Wolves.

They're ordered to kill everyone on sight.

This point is discussed RIGHT AFTER Dina and Ellie have their first encounter with the W.L.F. Dina wonders why they're trying to kill them and Dina asks Ellie what if they were refugees or something.

This means she's only killing them because she has to survive.

There's not a single moment leading up to that where Ellie feels remorse for anything regarding Abby.

It makes no sense for her to have a 2 second flashback and just let Abby go. That isn't an earned ending, as I said before. They needed to write a lot more scenes to support that type of ending. They betrayed their own writing.

Ellie's perception changes at the end of Day 2 when she finds out why they killed Joel.

Does Ellie know why they killed Joel before going to Seattle? No.
Does she find out why after talking to Nora? Yes.

If you take the time to read Ellie's journal, she questions her decision and her intentions. The moment where Ellie says, "I made her talk" wouldn't have no substance if it didn't question her motives while going after Abby.

But Ellie kills Abby's friends?

Look at the conversation she has with them and how the events changed. She has no intentions of killing Nora, Mel, and Owen. She just wanted to know where Abby was located.

Ellie didn't continue to go after Abby because she wanted to "kill her" she was driven by guilt. This is why Dina says, "You don't owe Tommy anything."

She doesn't say Joel, she says, "Tommy." Dina knew Ellie wanted to go because of guilt, and not really for revenge.

If you believe she magically changed her mind at the end, then you clearly missed so many things in the story that happened prior to that.

Ellie just happening to find every single person that was with Abby in a city the size of Seattle... unbelievable.

The W.L.F were out looking for Tresspassers.

Tommy arrived earlier and that means they were already on the lookout.

Jordan found Ellie and Dina.

Ellie found Nora who gave up Abby's location and that's where Mel and Owen were located.

Ellie and Dina playing drums about ten feet away from clickers... ridiculous scene that made no sense except as a "music comes into the story late" moment.

10 feet away? That doesn't happen. Clickers are outside of the synagogue. Infected are in the courthouse or in hidden areas within the large area.

How about Abby turning entirely on her "family", just to propel the story along? There's literally no reason she could not have just convinced Issac to let the kids stay since they were outcasts. She was supposedly his top soldier, right? That was a convenience plot line that makes no sense if you stop and think.

That's not what happened.

If you noticed the small detail while playing as Abby, she says, "Shit! Shit!" after killing a W.L.F soldier. This indicates that she doesn't want to do this but she has to in order to survive.

This is also not her turning against her "family." Again, you have to recognize the character's intentions.

Abby cares for Owen and went against Isaac order's to find him. She went AWOL to save him. When she was "arrested" and then escaped, Abby knew she was a fugitive.


A man was trying to murder his father for no reason, and that father killed his son to protect his life, that doesn't mean the father turned against his son, it means he was trying to protect his life.

Abby didn't want to kill her "family," her hand was simply forced into survival.

So there's way more than 3 that I have given you. There's more than that, but I haven't played the game in 2 years so it isn't fresh in my head. Debate them if you want, I've heard all the tired excuses hundreds of times. The defenses for the writing are always laughable, and rely solely on ad homimems and pointing to "awards" and metacritic scores as their "proof".

I heard these points before and they're easily debunked. If you think this game is filled with plot holes then I would use the same logic with some of your favorite movies and video game stories. You just don't understand the story as well as you think.

 

[Amiga]

What do you mean by executive intervention?

"The report states that many devs including studio heads were not happy with this arrangement and simply left. Days Gone Directors Jeff Ross And John Garvin have both left Bend Studio in December 2020 and perhaps, Sony's strict decisions are one of the reasons for their departure. "
https://www.altchar.com/game-news/b...tes that many,the reasons for their departure.

 

[mortal]

You bought a $70 game with the promise of a MP

Wait what? TLOU2 wasn't $70. I don't even think everyone that bought it even paid $60 for it.
I also don't recall either Naughty Dog or Sony ever promising players Factions 2 upon their purchase of TLOU2.
Most assumed it would be a similar model to TLOU1 and Factions MP mode, but they ultimately had bigger plans for it.

Nautilus Why do you have such a beef with these games? lol

 

[Clear]

Eh, it still questionable that Tommy would give out their names like that when he now knows of Joel's past. And letting yourself be surrounded by armed strangers in a room before at least finding out more what that they're doing so close to their hometown strikes me as dumb when they're supposed to be patrol guards.

Joel acting in character at the end doesn't mean he also did at the beginning.

Its kinda covered by the rapidity of how the situation escalates. Also it'd be bad writing not to factor in the relative normalcy and stability of life in Jackson not changing these characters. Death from exposure would be just a big a concern as being attacked by clickers or bandits, and there's also personal circumstance to factor in. Its perfectly in character for Joel to be more concerned for (or at least about) Ellie than himself and everything happens in this especially fraught period in their relationship - so there's always an element of distraction.

The issue of contrivance that I highlighted earlier isn't that Joel fucks up and gets killed, its that Ellie is around to witness his execution at Abby's hands. That could happen off-screen and still function as an inciting event, but the way its set-up as this brutal tableau is in order to justify Ellie's descent into demon-hood or whatever!

The mistake is making out this whole situation is about Joel and his fate, when its really about Ellie and her emotions and mindset. As a character Joel will have long accepted that his life is likely to end sudden and bloody. Expecting him to be some sort of infallible hero figure is entirely unjustified based on the events of the previous game where he makes multiple mistakes and mainly survives out of sheer dumb luck.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

So people are getting refunds then? You bought a $70 game with the promise of a MP game mode in it... Now they just decide that MP will be a separate game and cost you money. And we should just accept that? You can't make this shit up

Was it sold as a game including MP? Was this not know before the game released?

 

[Ulysses 31]

They each gave their names, but why should it matter? They helped and was ready for a psycho revenge muscle shark was on the hunt. The why so close was discussed, mistakes were made.none of these characters are meant to be infallible.

It matters because it's not really in character (IMO) for people who survived that long after the apocalypse and have a community to protect from falling into ruin like the outside world.

The scene could've been re-written where they're more cautious but still end up being overpowered. In that scenario they do act more rationally for the situation and don't get taken out so easily. It would come across more as tragic fate rather than temping it like they were doing in the final game.

 

[Topher]

So people are getting refunds then? You bought a $70 game with the promise of a MP game mode in it... Now they just decide that MP will be a separate game and cost you money. And we should just accept that? You can't make this shit up

False statement. No one bought this game with "the promise of a MP game mode in it". Naughty Dog said the game would not include an online mode almost a year before the game released.

Was it sold as a game including MP? Was this not know before the game released?

Yes, it was known. TLOU 2 haters are resorting to revising history now.

 

[kyliethicc]

Meanwhile - there are no other story games people discuss THIS much years after release.

Great works of art, Parts 1 and 2.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

It matter because it's not really in character (IMO) for people who survived that long after the apocalypse and have a community to protect from falling into ruin like the outside world.

The scene could've been re-written where they're more caution but still end up being overpowered. In that scenario they do act more rationally for the situation and don't get taken out so easily. It would come across more as tragic fate rather than temping it like they were doing in the final game.

Is it not character of random people or the actual characters being discussed? They have a community to protect, but there also welcoming new comers. The rewrite you talk of just fills something that was perfectly filled. The fate is tragic already and fate was tempted doing a patrol in that weather. How would your scenario even come to any names being mentioned?

 

[Nautilus]