You should as it's one of the best pieces of DLC I have ever played.
The Last of Us Part II announced
- Thread starter Greatest Ever
- Start date
You should as it's one of the best pieces of DLC I have ever played.
I don't really have a problem with Ellie having a child, if that's what the character wanted and it isn't the product of rape.
However, I'm more interested in representations of relationships between gay women, sans baby. Especially considering how well ND treated Nate/Elena in UC4.
However, I'm more interested in representations of relationships between gay women, sans baby. Especially considering how well ND treated Nate/Elena in UC4.
That's a fair point.
Toni
Member
Jesus christ no.
She's a lesbian ya'll. And it makes for lazy writing. How this preggo thing has taken over the last 2 pages has me shook.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Is it a misstep to say that someone born into a society that's primary focuses are self preservation and seeing tomorrow's sunrise aren't concerned with stratification (besides Hunters and Fireflies) and people are just drawn to whomever they're attracted to? Ellie was 14yrs old, she's just beginning to forge her own identity. I wouldn't fault the writers if Ellie isn't a mascot or meant to represent any one specific group. She is just herself and not a stand in for something else.
I hope I don't offend and I have no intentions to do so but they should be free to make Ellie however they choose to imo.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Good call. I was wondering who she would play, and that's a strong contender.
But Ellie already has the codycep infection swimming throughout her body. And since the infection is also transmitted through body fluid, wearing a gas mask to protect an incubating fetus from airborne spores seems pretty redundant to me.
Dice//
Banned
Eh. This is the same game that thought cutting open her brain would yield a cure to a disease as well. I find that highly unlikely.
Also surprised by the amount of people discounting a pregnancy plot point because Elie is completely[?] gay.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
She could just be a 14yr old girl who loved someone who happened to be a girl, she could possibly in the future love a guy. Maybe the antiquated concept of being labeled "this" or "that" doesn't apply to her and isn't something she subjects herself to. She just loves whomever she chooses to. That's my take. Ellie doesn't have to be defined in the future by someone she loved in the past...(as a child).
Ellie is a mascot at this point, and she was set up to be that. She occupies a unique space in the gaming landscape as a gay female lead character.
There are believable intepretations of her character that could result in her forming a heterosexual relationship, such as it being for the sake of survival of the species, but I don't see any way the game goes in that direction with a character that has a unique opportunity to represent the gay community. It could happen, but I'm certain it won't.
There are believable intepretations of her character that could result in her forming a heterosexual relationship, such as it being for the sake of survival of the species, but I don't see any way the game goes in that direction with a character that has a unique opportunity to represent the gay community. It could happen, but I'm certain it won't.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Ellie's not a scientist though, so maybe she doesn't know that. Hasn't her brain altered the infection though? That doesn't mean breathing new spores wouldn't affect the fetus. The strain in her body would be different than the one floating around, right? Idk but I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take on it but I'm not a virologist/microbiologist.
I don't think it would be lazy, I can't think of a another main character who is a pregnant. It would be something totally new for games wouldn't it?
Stallion Dan
Member
Lesbians cannot get pregnant?
It's been tackled recently (the protagonist of What Remains of Edith Finch is pregnant, and it was handled remarkably well there) but yeah, it's a mostly untouched topic in games. There's definitely a lot ND could do with the premise. But I don't think they're doin' it.
Toni
Member
That the fact that there is a prominent Lesbian protagonist in a game and the game still manages to sell a ton of units worldwide in today's society and anti-lgbt religions is totally new and refreshing.
I'm absolutely okay with that reality. And since Naughty Dog has successfully managed to break through the mold with Ellie, why scrap that altogether for a fruitless plot that not only takes Ellie backwards as a character, its out character as well.
Naughty Dog should just be content with this new medium they found with Ellie and ride it out, while raking in the profits.
Ellie being lesbian also paves the way to introduce a Gay male character/protagonist, explore bisexuality and/or transgender people, since we don't have many lgbt folks in the boxarts of video games because developers/publishers are afraid to take risks.
Naughty Dog is in a fantastic place right now with Ellie.
It definitely adds a lot more to Ellie's character and gives you more insight on her backstory. Outside of that it's simply boring as fuck to walk through (because that's literally what it is half the time).
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
25 years or so after societal collapse, I'm not sure artificial insemination is going to be a common practice.
And I don't think Ellie is going to get pregos as a plot device.
She's 19, not sure why people have latched on to this idea that this is going to happen.
Zantetsuken
Member
I know it's far out but I'm excited about the multiplayer
Toni
Member
Hence why I'm a little bit creeped out by this tbh.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
There are a lot of unknowns with Ellie's immunity.
Mainly if she is immune or simply a carrier for the virus.
For the sake of the story, I'm going to assume she is simply immune and can't infect others, because then the entire romance thing gets extremely complicated considering any type of bodily fluid could infect others (even just sharing drinks/food)
Yeah, I see your point. I don't disagree, they really do have a great thing with Ellie right now. At the same time I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, Ellie could be pregnant and gay, the human race has to continue somehow, it could also be forced on her. Perhaps that is too much to tackle in a game, I don't know, hypothetically I don't have a problem with the idea.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
so many questions...
You only need a syringe.
A gay woman having a child is more far fetched than fungus zombies, I guess.
Good to know, thanks. I'm not sure what will happen to this account, but I genuinely feel my original ban was unwarranted. I can see how my post could be seen as a little flippant in that thread, but I think at worst it deserved a slap in the wrist by saying "Watch the whole video before making a comment". To be permabanned for it was quite extreme, imo. That led me to believe this board doesn't take kindly to dissenting opinions, and the reaction to my theory in this thread only strengthened that assumption. I can see there are some great posters on this board, and in this thread, but I also feel there's some people that like to dog-pile on users that aren't part of a clique, and junior members are an easy target.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
We don't know if she's a lesbian. She could be bi, and she could have been in a consensual relationship with a man and got pregnant. Or, like another poster said in this thread, she may not define herself by societal labels we use today. She could simply be with people she develops a strong emotional connection with.
More than likely the picture was of Ellie's mom, but I think it could also be Ellie. Like I said earlier, it's not about the concept with Naughty Dog's writing, it's about the execution. On the surface, TLOU Part I doesn't seem like a great story, but it's extremely well told and acted. That translated to a great story. A poster like me on NeoGaf saying "Naughty Dog should make a game about a Dad that loses his daughter in the beginning and later meets up with a young girl that reminds him of his daughter and is also immune to a zombie disease" won't sound very good.
I trust ND -- I don't get how a theory can get people so worked up, and I don't understand why people are creeped out at the notion of Ellie having a kid. It probably won't happen, but I don't consider it out of the realm of possibility.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I want there to be a roll or some type of evasive maneuver to be in factions. The characters are far too stiff and slow to react when getting shot, so they either need to make the movement speed faster, incorporate rolls or both. The closest example I can think of is The Division. Also they need to fix molotovs, their hitboxes are crazy wide and their damage wildly varies and it's unpredictable as to what state you'll be in after getting hit with one.
There should be gear in the game to counter perks as well, like respirators for smoke bombs or flame retardant clothes for flamethrowers/molotovs
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
Lol yes, there is that too.
Maybe it's the product of years of casual research and consumption of media that have LGBT representation (whether they be tasteless or not, because I was a desperate baby queer y'all), but I, admittedly, recoil at the thought of a modern, well-established lesbian character getting pregnant in any way other than artificial insemination. Rape(!!!) is just :/ and having her lay with a dude is another :/ to me, especially speaking as a queer familiar with harmful lesbian stereotypes and cliches in media. Do not even get me started on ignorant individuals who still believe lesbianism is a phase and could be 'cured' via penis.
Idk maybe I just feel slighted by this topic of conversation as a member of the LGBT community, and someone who identifies with the L. I already had to deal with absolutely tasteless representation, give me one that is both healthy and respectful because we need more of those dammit lol. Also give Ellie a super dope girlfriend pretty please, ND. One who could keep up with her sass and level of sarcasm. Also one who could bring her down a peg if need be because being a badass can get to her head.
Also I want to play as Ellie's preggo mom. Imagine the difficulty and all the precautions you have to take because of being pregnant!
Ngl, LGBT topics in the gaming side stress me the fuck out, but I can't stop reading and putting my two cents in rofl.
Ellie doesn't know that Marlene got killed by Joel, Marlene was supposed to protect her and look after her, that's what the mother of Ellie wanted. She will later find out that Joel killed Marlene and she'll kill Joel in the end.
That is why she is so mad in the trailer, she heard Marlene got killed because the fireflies betrayed her.
It was probably mentioned before but eh, I didn't read all the pages 😬
That is why she is so mad in the trailer, she heard Marlene got killed because the fireflies betrayed her.
It was probably mentioned before but eh, I didn't read all the pages 😬
I'd say there's a fair amount of evidence now suggesting it's more than just an easter egg. First, you have Neil teasing something about it in this GI interview
https://youtu.be/fhkbieUxlvs?t=446
Then the pic he posted on twitter of his co-writer on twitter.
https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/852983947629805568
If you look closer you can see a baby prop lying behind the horse.
I'm 95% sure that the girl in the poster is Ellie's Mum though.
ohhh good find...I also think it'll be about her mom.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I mean, there is authorial intent, and then there is literally having an entire DLC that was released on valentines day that ends with a romantic kiss and a tragic ending where two young teens choose to live out the rest of their short lives together. With a cruel irony that Ellie is damned to continue to live on her life possibly witnessing her first love go mad and lose all control in front of her, while she is completely fine and has to leave her (or kill her).
All of that with the fact they are both the same gender and is the only actual romantic knowledge we have of Ellie and Riley.
Art is made with contemporary issues in mind, and a lot of the characters in TLoU were designed to try and warp and invert those conventions. The inclusion of these are not an accident and are the point.
In the game Ellie is Ellie, but Ellie outside of the game can always be a mascot for more diverse main characters in gaming. Ellie isn't going to be fighting for equal rights in TLoU, but her inclusion into the LGBT list of characters is an important one because of the critical and commercial success of the first game and what it means for publishers in the future when confronted with game concepts and having to go to "market research" to decide what to push and what to kill off.
I really, really don't understand why people afraid to say, "Ellie is gay". There is no evidence she is bi, no evidence she is straight, and an entire DLC and major character arcs/points that show she is gay. It's almost insulting that there has to be some type of hold out in her, like "Whoa whoa, hold the boat, we don't know if she is like 100% gay, she might like the dick!"
Of course, there is nothing wrong with bi characters, but the drama surrounding Ellie's character has always been that of, "she still might want to fuck guys, you never know!", type of attitude, and not of one that is actually trying to support the inclusion of an actual bi character (that isn't there for pure sexual fantasy like the Asari in Mass Effect).
You don't need social labels to only be sexually interested in a specific gender.
Imagine if we had Left Behind but with some random boy instead of a girl. Game ends with Ellie making out with him and with the same tragic ending. Then while talking about the game, a bunch of people come into the thread and go, "You never know, she could be bi!". They would be laughed out of the thread because it's so random and the story suggests nothing of it.
WTF? People like this exist? Ugh.
I fully agree with you, and I hope ND succeed. I would love to see Ellie with a sassy girlfriend.
In terms of Ellie being pregnant, I could see it being from artificial insemination or rape (gross). The fireflies (or someone) find out about it and take the baby to see if he/she is immune. It would certainly cause Ellie to go on the murderous rampage hinted at in the trailer. Its pretty dark though.
I actually don't think it will happen, but something big has to happen to Ellie (and not Joel) to cause her to seek revenge.
Lesbians having children make me literally shook, bro.
In the post apocalyptic world 19 is the new 30.
People don't really have the luxury of waiting anymore.
If she does have a kid I bet she's just a surrogate for a family that couldn't get pregnant and after the baby is born the parents are killed and the child snatched.
EdReedFan20
Member
Last week I was watching Giant Bomb play PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds and Dan or Brad said it would be neat if the MP in TLOU2 was in the style of PUBG (or other similar games). I have to say, I think that would be awesome. 1: I think it would be fun. 2: I think it would be a way for ND to experiment with open world. However, I doubt it will happen, as I assume to make something like that work well, too much time would need to be focused on it. But, if they could do it, I would love it.
Yeah, I really don't think 19 is particularly young in these circumstances. Throughout history girls were married off as soon as they were able to have children, they could be 12-13 years old.
EdReedFan20
Member
If Ellie does give birth to a child in the game (which I doubt happens), this is especially true, because the more children that are born immune, the more exponentially the number of immune people will increase. Just think: If Ellie has 2-3 kids, and those 2-3 kids eventually have 2-3 themselves, and so and and so forth, the number of people that can be turned into infected will drop. It would be a slow process. But each child born would be one less person for an infected to infect. The child would need to have intense protection from nefarious groups, though.
As for that last bit, for a plotline, I do think it would be neat (if Ellie does have an immune child) if word gets out that the child is immune. The baby would then need to be protected from groups wanting it for themselves. Maybe something a bit like Children of Men.
That would be kind of amazing, and suitably bleak. It could also have elements of a Handmaids tale, its not a stretch to imagine a post apocalyptic society revolving around procreation, especially if it involved immunity.
Ellie could even have her eggs harvested against her will, i'm picturing the scene from Alien resurrection and all of Ripley clones. I would fully expect to see some fucked up experiments going on.
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
This, so fucking much. It's something that is not entirely uncommon in real life for lesbian folks as well. I've had similar sentiments directed toward me and my gay friends; it is absolutely exasperating, and yes, I do take offense.
Some people have taken my stance on the matter as biphobic, and it pisses me off from time to time. Biphobia is most certainly an issue that plagues the LGBT community, and one that desperately needs to be addressed. But there's a whole lot of difference between having a problem with the harmful stereotype/cliche of making a well-established lesbian character shacking it up with a dude because she suddenly likes the D, and apprehension/hate toward real bi-identifying folks because of their chance of ending up with the opposite sex.
I ultimately end up side-eyeing some straight dudes when they insistently express their skepticism over lesbians not being interested in men. Like, HMMMMMMMM lol. Video games and real life don't have to cater to your every needs peeps.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I don't think anyone here is afraid to say that Ellie is gay but the fact remains that she's only lived a brief period of time and we don't no how she will develop in terms of her sexuality or mentality. Could Ellie in fact be gay/lesbian, whatever? Sure, but no one supporting the theory of Ellie being pregnant is saying that she isn't. I think we're simply saying the theory could work for "reasons". If anything I think more people opposed to her being pregnant are so concerned for representation that they fail to see that people do change and grow throughout their lives so to say that a fan theory is asinine because it disregards the fact that a 14yr old girl loved another girl and therefore couldn't love a man in my eyes is dumb.
I don't believe Ellie is a stagnant character who doesn't or won't change, I think the world of TLoU is the ultimate impetus in making people adapt to an entirely different way of life. I just think that in Ellie's eyes she probably doesn't identify as anything because I don't think that would be a concept she acknowledges or concerns herself with because she's focused on survival. I think we're looking at this from the perspective of the modern day when the world of TLoU is vastly different and these things aren't relevant. When you're living day in, day out fearing for your life, potentially eating other people, living in squalor and under oppressive military rule who gives a shit if you're gay or not?
My point is, I think Ellie loves whomever she chooses to and doesn't restrict the people she's attracted to based on a association that comes from a concept that may no longer exist in her time. I understand someone would likely be laughed out if the thread because they asserting something that everyone else found stupid or unfounded but all I'm saying is and I could be wrong but it seems shortsighted to assume Ellie is solely gay because of her and Riley's relationship. She could very well be bisexual. It was an all girl school and she forged a strong bond with a single person, if it were a dude I'd argue she'd kiss him too. We're too preoccupied with telling people who and what Ellie is when I don't believe she has a clear handle or idea of who she herself is yet.
Sounds like Juno, which would be ironic.
What are you basing this on?
Dice//
Banned
I'm definitely curious to see what they do with Elie in the second game. Be it her having a new lover, pregnancy, or even just general character growth.
I definitely wouldn't be "afraid" to say Elie is gay, hell, I'd love to see if they follow through more than just one kiss in one DLC episode.
Curious what the writer's have in store, certainly this discussion leaves a lot up for grabs.
I definitely wouldn't be "afraid" to say Elie is gay, hell, I'd love to see if they follow through more than just one kiss in one DLC episode.
Curious what the writer's have in store, certainly this discussion leaves a lot up for grabs.
dancegrenade
Member
You niggas are kinda weird.
EdReedFan20
Member
You know, if any of this (involving Ellie giving birth to an immune child) actually happens, that would surely paint Joel's actions at the end of the first game in a new light. His actions, while purely selfish, would unintentionally potentially save humanity.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
PSY・S;236019760 said:
I'm speculating. I don't think it's any different than people saying a 14yr old girl kissing another is a lesbian for life. I think a lot of people have an experience like that but they don't necessarily become homophilic.
Vindicated at last! The last line of the game will be 'I told you so'.
Yeah but what part of her character and arc makes you think that? There's reason to believe she's gay but I don't know what's compelling you to think she definitely isn't firmly lesbian. She might not be well educated on sexuality but could know for sure that she's only attracted to girls/women.
hairygreenpeas
Neo Member
I suppose I could understand where the poster is coming from, as I did struggle wih my own sexuality during my pre-teens before eventually accepting that I can only be attracted to ladies.PSY・S;236021755 said:
At the same time, had Ellie been a dude, would we be having this in-depth of a conversation about a video game character's sexuality? I have started to notice that this sort of skepticism has mainly been applied to female characters - or just women in general. I happen to think it speaks volumes about our current society.