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[Yoboman]

What I'm gonna say is NOT a popular view but fuck it, here goes:

I think many hard core Gamers suffer shame over their hobby and when a game like this comes along (serious and with presumed importance and meaningfulness) the folks inclined to be ashamed by playing story based video games rush to say, 'See?!? DO YOU SEE?!? Our hobby is not for children! This is serious business and these games are ART and they are MEANINGFUL!!!'

And BECAUSE of this, a lot of games that present themselves as adult and mature and serious get way more of a pass than they should, from both Gamers and the gaming press. A good 90% of the Games lauded for story and character development would be rejected by Hollywood (this view based simply on my subjective comparison of what Hollywood currently offers up in terms of story/character compared to what games offer up) and yet, many of us Gamers claim that Shakespeare himself has returned and he's working at Rockstar or Naughty Dog.

And I take issue with this because I love the medium of games, both what Games are and what they can be. But I feel they will NEVER reach their actual artistic potential if we don't call out the bullshit that- when accepted and praised- actually stunts game development's advancement towards more genuinely mature, adult, emotional, and intellectually meaningful games.

NOTE: I haven't played TLOU2 and it may be simply wonderful. Naughty Dog is prob the very best execution developer in the history of the medium, so I'm sure- if nothing else- it is going to be a FUCKING PHENOMENAL treat to play in that regard. And who knows: this may be the game that CLAIMS to be important and artistic and actually is! My mind is open. And I do like what Druckman has said about killing dogs and killing in general in TLOU2: being something you don't need to do but you've been trained to do so you don't even question it and when you discover you never HAD to do it it makes you question your own person. If that works, that's cool!

However, it is important to make sure- before heaping praise- that we are able to tell if most of us rush in and start shooting w/out thinking BECAUSE:

a- it says something about the human condition
OR
b-because it says something about how we've been trained to play VIDEO GAMES over the years.

If it turns out to be 'b' but the press tells us it's 'a' (because let's face it, 'a' is a better story), therein lies my issue.

Jaffe

Or it could just be that many of us think (referring to the original TLOU) they've crafted an excellent story and characters, packaged with great and visceral gameplay and some really great systems (for 2012 when scavenging and resource management wasn't as widespread as now)

Things can definitely be viewed within their box as elevating their particular niche. Like Logan can be appreciated for what it attempted with comic book movies or Heath Ledgers take on the joker. Or even the narrative superiority that the first God of War brought to the character action genre

 

[scalman]

just enjoy damn games or go home . what a shitty time when so called gamers who spend more time to camplain about everything then to play games. and why those some thinks that anyone whould care about their opinions. it means nothing . empty spot . zero meaning just your opinion, i mean . stop being brainless hordes that follows someones voice.

 

[yodine53]

The game looks good, but it doesn't look as good as the E3 trailer/demo.

This is valid for almost every other game at the market.

 

[scalman]

It doesnt need to look as good that one was premade for showing off stuff. And its still all in game just its not that cinematic lighting and camera angles. That would just not work in real gameplay. Why its so hard to see it and accept it. All do that and i want it be done that way.

 

[davidjaffe]

Or it could just be that many of us think (referring to the original TLOU) they've crafted an excellent story and characters, packaged with great and visceral gameplay and some really great systems (for 2012 when scavenging and resource management wasn't as widespread as now)

Things can definitely be viewed within their box as elevating their particular niche. Like Logan can be appreciated for what it attempted with comic book movies or Heath Ledgers take on the joker. Or even the narrative superiority that the first God of War brought to the character action genre

100%. I'm not suggesting there are not TONS of valid reasons to adore TLOU. You've named but a few.

But I AM suggesting the near religious fervor expressed about this game- and other games- when it comes to story/characters/emotion has not- to me- been genuinely earned. And in not being genuinely earned- IMO- it makes it harder to push game devs to reach the heights that the medium CAN reach because devs are being told- alas- not only have we already arrived but here's a map for other devs to follow if they want to reach the same destination.

Jaffe

 

[scalman]

Tlou had best emotions in game i ever had felt. So this will be next level. But i guess its not for everyone. Some think that gears 5 story is great.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What I'm gonna say is NOT a popular view but fuck it, here goes:

I think many hard core Gamers suffer shame over their hobby and when a game like this comes along (serious and with presumed importance and meaningfulness) the folks inclined to be ashamed by playing story based video games rush to say, 'See?!? DO YOU SEE?!? Our hobby is not for children! This is serious business and these games are ART and they are MEANINGFUL!!!'

And BECAUSE of this, a lot of games that present themselves as adult and mature and serious get way more of a pass than they should, from both Gamers and the gaming press. A good 90% of the Games lauded for story and character development would be rejected by Hollywood (this view based simply on my subjective comparison of what Hollywood currently offers up in terms of story/character compared to what games offer up) and yet, many of us Gamers claim that Shakespeare himself has returned and he's working at Rockstar or Naughty Dog.

And I take issue with this because I love the medium of games, both what Games are and what they can be. But I feel they will NEVER reach their actual artistic potential if we don't call out the bullshit that- when accepted and praised- actually stunts game development's advancement towards more genuinely mature, adult, emotional, and intellectually meaningful games.

NOTE: I haven't played TLOU2 and it may be simply wonderful. Naughty Dog is prob the very best execution developer in the history of the medium, so I'm sure- if nothing else- it is going to be a FUCKING PHENOMENAL treat to play in that regard. And who knows: this may be the game that CLAIMS to be important and artistic and actually is! My mind is open. And I do like what Druckman has said about killing dogs and killing in general in TLOU2: being something you don't need to do but you've been trained to do so you don't even question it and when you discover you never HAD to do it it makes you question your own person. If that works, that's cool!

However, it is important to make sure- before heaping praise- that we are able to tell if most of us rush in and start shooting w/out thinking BECAUSE:

a- it says something about the human condition
OR
b-because it says something about how we've been trained to play VIDEO GAMES over the years.

If it turns out to be 'b' but the press tells us it's 'a' (because let's face it, 'a' is a better story), therein lies my issue.

Jaffe

In reality though, there is a ton of ripe ass shit that comes out of Hollywood too.

They're not always a bastion of Shakespeare either with the myriad of quality ranging from a self induced coma to The Godfather.

 

[davidjaffe]

In reality though, there is a ton of ripe ass shit that comes out of Hollywood too.

They're not always a bastion of Shakespeare either with the myriad of quality ranging from a self induced coma to The Godfather.

Agree. But I was comparing Hollywood's 'best of' as it relates to story/character with gaming's'best of' in the same category.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Agree. But I was comparing Hollywood's 'best of' as it relates to story/character with gaming's'best of' in the same category.

Well that's a given. One has over 100 years of film, and thousands of drama.

Gaming has made some nice strides in such a short time period, and can only get better. I would like to think those who produce, direct, design want to push themselves forward over their last work, regardless of what fans have to say.

 

[yodine53]

I was expecting more excitement by the press, i mean after they saw Cyberpunk's demo at E3 they were like: GAME OF THE GENERATION!! INSANE GRAPHICS!!!!!!! JAW-DROPPING!!!!!!!!! ....
and from this previews they don't seem to have these levels of hype

 

[sendit]

I was expecting more excitement by the press, i mean after they saw Cyberpunk's demo at E3 they were like: GAME OF THE GENERATION!! INSANE GRAPHICS!!!!!!! JAW-DROPPING!!!!!!!!! ....
and from this previews they don't seem to have these levels of hype

Can any game really match Cyberpunk's level of hype? The only game I see doing that is GTA 6.

 

[rashbeep]

I was expecting more excitement by the press, i mean after they saw Cyberpunk's demo at E3 they were like: GAME OF THE GENERATION!! INSANE GRAPHICS!!!!!!! JAW-DROPPING!!!!!!!!! ....
and from this previews they don't seem to have these levels of hype

that game almost seems unbelievable with the detail/scale/interactivity that it is promising

im still a little skeptical

 

[yodine53]

Can any game really match Cyberpunk's level of hype? The only game I see doing that is GTA 6.

We are talking about the last of us, the game that beated GTA V for most GoTY awards -from the press AND the people-. It's not like it can't surpass that level of hype

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Any advice on which ones to watch? Spoilers and all that. This is so unexpected! I was sleepy five seconds ago and now I'm WIDE AWAKE!

 

[davidjaffe]

Well that's a given. One has over 100 years of film, and thousands of drama.

Gaming has made some nice strides in such a short time period, and can only get better. I would like to think those who produce, direct, design want to push themselves forward over their last work, regardless of what fans have to say.

Sure but games have been around for 5000+ years. The idea that before Pong, games were incapable of story telling and eliciting deep emotion is potentially telling. I bring this up to suggest games have had a very long time to show how they are also capable of story telling/emotion and yet, nothing amazing as of yet (at least as far as most of humanity is concerned). This makes me think applying interactivity to something automatically brings the audience out of the head space one must be in to experience the same emotional zap one gets from linear media. But this is starting to sound like another thread ...

 

[GribbleGrunger]

She's still wearing that gas mask ... Remember the pic of the pregnant woman wearing a gas mask and most people said it couldn't be Ellie because she doesn't need to wear one?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sure but games have been around for 5000+ years. The idea that before Pong, games were incapable of story telling and eliciting deep emotion is potentially telling. I bring this up to suggest games have had a very long time to show how they are also capable of story telling/emotion and yet, nothing amazing as of yet (at least as far as most of humanity is concerned). This makes me think applying interactivity to something automatically brings the audience out of the head space one must be in to experience the same emotional zap one gets from linear media. But this is starting to sound like another thread ...

I can see where you're coming from. Now I know this is going to be anecdotal, but I also think it depends on the person. I have a very close friend of mine who works on both TWD and Fear. She is also on the show.

She has been excited all week for this info and has been texting me nonstop about it. She is day 0 on the Ellie Edition version. She loves the characters Ellie/Joel and the first game did impact her in an emotion way. Maybe it is due to her craft as an artist/actress and parent, that she can connect with the characters on a different level?

Me personally, I enjoyed the game. It did not impact me emotionally like it did her, but I appreciated the great acting and subtlety in even the side characters development and backstory.

I think we're so used to cheese and B to C tier plots and acting, that games like this do stand out like diamonds in the rough (in the medium).

 

[DForce]

She's still wearing that gas mask ... Remember the pic of the pregnant woman wearing a gas mask and most people said it couldn't be Ellie because she doesn't need to wear one?

It was said during an interview that she doesn't need it. People still don't know that she's immune.

She put acid over her bite more and then covered it with a tattoo.

 

[bitbydeath]

What I'm gonna say is NOT a popular view but fuck it, here goes:

I think many hard core Gamers suffer shame over their hobby and when a game like this comes along (serious and with presumed importance and meaningfulness) the folks inclined to be ashamed by playing story based video games rush to say, 'See?!? DO YOU SEE?!? Our hobby is not for children! This is serious business and these games are ART and they are MEANINGFUL!!!'

And BECAUSE of this, a lot of games that present themselves as adult and mature and serious get way more of a pass than they should, from both Gamers and the gaming press. A good 90% of the Games lauded for story and character development would be rejected by Hollywood (this view based simply on my subjective comparison of what Hollywood currently offers up in terms of story/character compared to what games offer up) and yet, many of us Gamers claim that Shakespeare himself has returned and he's working at Rockstar or Naughty Dog.

And I take issue with this because I love the medium of games, both what Games are and what they can be. But I feel they will NEVER reach their actual artistic potential if we don't call out the bullshit that- when accepted and praised- actually stunts game development's advancement towards more genuinely mature, adult, emotional, and intellectually meaningful games.

NOTE: I haven't played TLOU2 and it may be simply wonderful. Naughty Dog is prob the very best execution developer in the history of the medium, so I'm sure- if nothing else- it is going to be a FUCKING PHENOMENAL treat to play in that regard. And who knows: this may be the game that CLAIMS to be important and artistic and actually is! My mind is open. And I do like what Druckman has said about killing dogs and killing in general in TLOU2: being something you don't need to do but you've been trained to do so you don't even question it and when you discover you never HAD to do it it makes you question your own person. If that works, that's cool!

However, it is important to make sure- before heaping praise- that we are able to tell if most of us rush in and start shooting w/out thinking BECAUSE:

a- it says something about the human condition
OR
b-because it says something about how we've been trained to play VIDEO GAMES over the years.

If it turns out to be 'b' but the press tells us it's 'a' (because let's face it, 'a' is a better story), therein lies my issue.

Jaffe

It's most certainly B as few people would ever do A in real life.

Even the stories you hear of wars past had many soldiers not wanting to partake in the conflict even going as far as intentionally shooting away from the enemies so they would cause no harm to others.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It was said during an interview that she doesn't need it. People still don't know that she's immune.

She put acid over her bite more and then covered it with a tattoo.

Yeah, as I've said, I think her love interest will become her enemy. They kissed ... it's been mentioned twice now, and the infection is spread through bites (mouth). Her lover will think Ellie put her life at risk.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

So you can't explain.

I will, because I can actually tell what's happening.


It's clear that the game was not downgraded.

People don't realize that clothing can appear less detailed based on the lighting.

Bottom Left and Right are taken from gameplay footage released today.


Others are taken from E3 2018 gameplay trailer.

The only spot where Ellie's clothing appears the most detailed is in the top middle.

This is likely from you exploring the area and it has different lighting.

Again, it's clear that your clothing reacts different in light.


Compare the Trailer released Tuesday to the E3 gameplay trailer with the guy in the raincoat. The scenes are very similar and they look the same. Of course, may not be the same extra, but very similar.







Then you have a woman in a raincoat fighting near fire.



Compare that to the gameplay trailer released Tuesday.

Yes, same level of detail.


Finally you have knight time in the forest.


From Tuesday


From E3


Not the exact same spot, but the same enviorment.


No proof of a graphical downgrade.

I can't believe this has to be explained but thank you for doing it anyway.

In any case, the graphics look good in all of the screenshots.

 

[comshoplesce]

can we join all threads together into 1?

 

[plushyp]

Is there any video containing just the new footage and no cuts to people discussing the game or talking about it in the background?

 

[sol_bad]

They showed the press 2-3 hours of the game and it's only a fraction of what's in the full game?
Geez, how big is this game going to be? Haven't watched all the video yet but are they going to surprise us with an open world or something?

 

[sendit]

They showed the press 2-3 hours of the game and it's only a fraction of what's in the full game?
Geez, how big is this game going to be? Haven't watched all the video yet but are they going to surprise us with an open world or something?

Agreed. A fraction can mean 1/2. I'm going to go with 4-6 hours for the final game.

 

[Aggelos]

Naughty Dog Wants to Ensure The Last of Us Part 2 Runs Well on Vanilla PS4

As we've entered a new era of "premium" versions of consoles, big games have suffered. Triple-A games in particular have struggled under straddling multiple ...

www.usgamer.net

 

[FranXico]

Naughty Dog Wants to Ensure The Last of Us Part 2 Runs Well on Vanilla PS4

As we've entered a new era of "premium" versions of consoles, big games have suffered. Triple-A games in particular have struggled under straddling multiple ...

www.usgamer.net

So, it's going to perform terribly on base units.

Spoiler

Dammit!

 

[Hage Kamo]

 

[Terenty]

Rdr 2 looks better fact

 

[Hideous Snake]

What I'm gonna say is NOT a popular view but fuck it, here goes:

I think many hard core Gamers suffer shame over their hobby and when a game like this comes along (serious and with presumed importance and meaningfulness) the folks inclined to be ashamed by playing story based video games rush to say, 'See?!? DO YOU SEE?!? Our hobby is not for children! This is serious business and these games are ART and they are MEANINGFUL!!!'

And BECAUSE of this, a lot of games that present themselves as adult and mature and serious get way more of a pass than they should, from both Gamers and the gaming press. A good 90% of the Games lauded for story and character development would be rejected by Hollywood (this view based simply on my subjective comparison of what Hollywood currently offers up in terms of story/character compared to what games offer up) and yet, many of us Gamers claim that Shakespeare himself has returned and he's working at Rockstar or Naughty Dog.

And I take issue with this because I love the medium of games, both what Games are and what they can be. But I feel they will NEVER reach their actual artistic potential if we don't call out the bullshit that- when accepted and praised- actually stunts game development's advancement towards more genuinely mature, adult, emotional, and intellectually meaningful games.

NOTE: I haven't played TLOU2 and it may be simply wonderful. Naughty Dog is prob the very best execution developer in the history of the medium, so I'm sure- if nothing else- it is going to be a FUCKING PHENOMENAL treat to play in that regard. And who knows: this may be the game that CLAIMS to be important and artistic and actually is! My mind is open. And I do like what Druckman has said about killing dogs and killing in general in TLOU2: being something you don't need to do but you've been trained to do so you don't even question it and when you discover you never HAD to do it it makes you question your own person. If that works, that's cool!

However, it is important to make sure- before heaping praise- that we are able to tell if most of us rush in and start shooting w/out thinking BECAUSE:

a- it says something about the human condition
OR
b-because it says something about how we've been trained to play VIDEO GAMES over the years.

If it turns out to be 'b' but the press tells us it's 'a' (because let's face it, 'a' is a better story), therein lies my issue.

Jaffe

Oh my god. One of my all-time favourites wrote a post! JAFFEEEEE I LOVE YOU MAN

I also agree with the whole post

 

[Paulxo87]

The graphics are the same as the e3 2018 demo. I did not think so AT FIRST. That is until the "inside the demo" video came out. The video quality of the gameplay clips is a good deal greater than all the other shit that released that day. The e3 demo was more scripted however.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I have great respect for Jaffe, he made great things for the industry, and often we are on the same side of the fence (I think). But he also has an ego, and as far as I can tell his best work so far dates pretty far back (God of War, part of God of War 3 I believe), this piece of work also had great narrative back then.

To me is nothing more than a retired athlete that has become sports commentator, I think I get what he means by "taking the medium forward, to its full potential", most story heavy games have such bad writing that I think they would gain a lot by simply having an intro... no cut scenes, or maybe some voiceless transitions, then something at the end (like the base explode and you fly away on an helicopter), that would certain have made the recent Tomp Raider games better.

But as he said, Naughty Dog is probably the best games studio, now or possibly ever, so if anyone can pull this off it's them.

Rdr 2 looks better fact

Your opinion is fact, this is how good you are!

Seriously, this is what I thought when I saw the latest reveal, I never played RDR2, probably never will... I hate games that don't handle as well as they should and this seemed to be the main complaint about this one.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[K.N.W.]

NVM, I was wrong

 

[Shin]

 

[Gamernyc78]

Rdr 2 looks better fact

Looks at the ppl tht liked this comment and like clockwork In your dreams. Either way best looking games this gen are Horizon, God of War and Uncharted 4/Lost Legacy still puts vistas and character models of other ganes to shame. RDR 2:for what it's doing is still a contender as well.

 

[Humdinger]

Yeah, getting tired of kil kill kill kill cutscene kil kill kill kill cutscene kill kill kill kill cutscene games, esp when the gfx are too realistic. Makes me feel bad, lol.

This new hate-fuelled Ellie though, idk if i am going to want to spend time with her, lol. Hopefully not a miserable git like post apocalypse joel.

I'm feeling the same. I've heard Druckman say the game is about how violence affects us -- affects Ellie in particular, but by extension the player. To focus on that theme, he has to amplify the violence and put it front and center.

I'll play the game eventually, because I enjoyed the first, but descriptions of the second leave me uninspired. I'm not interested in a game focused on "the effects of violence" and a character driven by anger and revenge. I play games for enjoyment, and that just doesn't sound enjoyable to me.

 

[ethomaz]

That is one of these games you don't need previews or reviews.

Just buy it day one

 

[ethomaz]

I'm feeling the same. I've heard Druckman say the game is about how violence affects us -- affects Ellie in particular, but by extension the player. To focus on that theme, he has to amplify the violence and put it front and center.

I'll play the game eventually, because I enjoyed the first, but descriptions of the second leave me uninspired. I'm not interested in a game focused on "the effects of violence" and a character driven by anger and revenge. I play games for enjoyment, and that just doesn't sound enjoyable to me.

She was raised by Joel so there is no way to her not be violent and brutal.
What you describe in bold is exactly what was the first game.

 

[OmegaSpear]

I just watched IGN's preview of the game. Buying this game day 1

 

[Gamernyc78]

She was raised by Joel so there is no way to her not be violent and brutal.
What you describe in bold is exactly what was the first game.

Wtf does he want? Ellie to throw flowers and lillies at the zombies and give them hugs smh

 

[Humdinger]

She was raised by Joel so there is no way to her not be violent and brutal.
What you describe in bold is exactly what was the first game.

No, that's not accurate. The game had violence, of course (most games do), but the effect of violence was not the focus of the game's story. Nor was hatred and revenge the primary motive.

 

[MasterDerico]

The Woke of Us.
I'll pass this badly.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The Woke of Us.
I'll pass this badly.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

The Woke of Us.

Can you elaborate on this, genuinely curious as to why you're using the term in relation to this game.

 

[Hobbygaming]

100%. I'm not suggesting there are not TONS of valid reasons to adore TLOU. You've named but a few.

But I AM suggesting the near religious fervor expressed about this game- and other games- when it comes to story/characters/emotion has not- to me- been genuinely earned. And in not being genuinely earned- IMO- it makes it harder to push game devs to reach the heights that the medium CAN reach because devs are being told- alas- not only have we already arrived but here's a map for other devs to follow if they want to reach the same destination.

Jaffe

I put TLOU's story and character development up there with the best of them, including movies and the gameplay is great too

 

[pr0cs]

I'm excited for the game but will probably pass to play on the next Gen box.
I hate how loud my PS4 is now and I can't help but think the next Gen console will run the game much better (hopefully Sony doesn't cheap out and releases a free update to the game for the ps5 with more bells and whistles)

 

[Hobbygaming]

Can you elaborate on this, genuinely curious as to why you're using the term in relation to this game.

When you have a game like TLOU Part II that doesn't seem to have many flaws, people have to find other reasons to try to downplay it

 

[MasterDerico]

Can you elaborate on this, genuinely curious as to why you're using the term in relation to this game.

Leftist/feminist agenda on E3 made me throw up.

Agenda.

The day that everything flow normally, i wont care, but don't try to force me.

I don't like the series too much, so im fine!

Nothing more to say! (Not personal)

 

[Hobbygaming]

They showed the press 2-3 hours of the game and it's only a fraction of what's in the full game?
Geez, how big is this game going to be? Haven't watched all the video yet but are they going to surprise us with an open world or something?

At least 20-30 hours. The areas are wider than the previous game too