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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

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Veelk

Banned
You quote Yangchen as proof even though Aang distinctly rejected her opinion?

An immortal spirit is not the same as an enlightened one. Enlightenment does not equal having detachment from life or not valuing it. In fact, it is the exact opposite. Truly enlightened individuals value all life and would never kill another being. Yangchen's opinion was that the avatar must kill sometimes in order to establish order and therefore could never follow this path.

She was wrong.

First off, there are many intepretations of enlightenment. It's one of those ineffable things, as is the value of life. For example, there is one buddhist story where two students work arguing about which should keep a cat. The teacher came in and said whoever speaks a word of zen will can keep the cat. Neither of them do so. So he rips the cat in half as a demonstration of zen, killing it. When i asked how can this be a demonstration of zen, I was pointed out that with reincarnation, the teacher has not truly killed the cat, only allowed a reincarnation to take place. I don't know if I buy quite that, but you can't tell me "This is enlightenment", because according to buddists themselves, there is no singular answer they can give. Like the seemingly cruel teacher, It could be his enlightenment is detachment from life in the heart beat sense but values life in the cosmic sense.

Second, you're saying Yang Chen. Yang Chen the avatar. The avatar is wrong talking about what it means to be the avatar. Look, I love Aang too, but if you're taking this route, then you're saying that all last 4 of the avatars before Aang have been collosal, complete lols worthy epic fails and Aang is the only one that got the dalai lama thing even remotely right.

A nation is not a part of a planet. Nations are human constructs. The existence of a nation is irrelevant to the health of a planet.

This is both right and wrong in different ways.

Okay, first off, tell that nations don't matter to Hei Bai who lost his shit when his forest was gone because of fire nation industrialization. Tell that to Wan Shi Tong who was angered when the fire nation warfare. Or even La and Tui who are explicitly spirits of the water nation. The spirits are highly involved and interested in human politics, what they decide to do as nations involves what happens to the planet and karmic balance and all that, which the spirits are highly interested in.

Secondly. the Nations, in this case, are not the result of just geographics and politics but basic biology. Until colonization, the nations weren't just seperated by land, but by genetic code of people that is intrinsically tied to spirituality. Surely biology is part of the earth, is it not?

Third, you are right that the separation of nations is an illusion, but you're stopping at the illusion that humanity is separated from the planet. Humanity is part of the planet. This is literally made into a plot point in the Swamp episode.

Obviously, the "world" refers to global human society. When people say "Let's work towards world peace"- they are referring to humans learning to live in peace with one another. The world is thrown off balance because humans of the avatar world cannot reconcile their differences.

Aang must take down the Fire Lord because he is a threat to other human nations not because he is polluting the environment. It is the entire theme/point of the series.

...No. I'm sorry, but that's simply wrong. Most of the wars around the globe are about the planet. To achieve world peace, one thing that must be done is a well organized division of land and resources that everyone is satisfied with. To do that, we must be in agreement on what forests to cut, what to preserve, waht to grow, what to burn, who can live on what, where. I mean, hell, global warming is an environmental concern that will cause seriously disruptive shit to people in the future. If we don't stop harming the planet by melting the ice caps, we'll be screwed over ourselves. It all goes back to the theme of seperations being illusions. Like I said before, humanity is part of the planet.

If you want world peace, it is literally impossible to ignore the planet, because that is the thing we all live on. You do the wrong with a piece of land, you fuck up the livelihood of some other group of people. They're going to get rightfully angry about that, and you have a fight on your hands. World peace is broken.

You might want to rewatch the series, because there are a few environmental episodes, especially the with the panda monster. He is specifically angry that the fire nation messed with the forest. How does the avatar quell him? By promising that he will stop the fire lord and help restore nature to it's proper form.

What do you mean "now"? Dalai lama = spirit. The dalai lama is a human being with a divine spirit.

It might have been the original plan but it was thrown out early on because the series' narrative and themes developed in a different direction and the "Planet Spirit" concept did not tie into that.

It didn't develop significantly differently enough to make the planet spirit not fit within the narrative, which is why it's still applicable. As I said, if the writers didn't intend that and wanted to make the dalai lama thing the only possible interpretation....tough. They didn't do anything that rules out planet spirit, so that's still in.



Look, I wish I could do the whole 'reply to each part of argument individually' thing more, but it's been a busy day and I still have things to do, so I think we can essentialize our disagreement into this one point: Explain to me how exactly humanity is not a part of the planet. If you can convince me of this one point, one I feel the show itself strongly, and quite evidently, rebels against, then you've won the argument as I see it. Because if it isn't, then you're right, I can't think of why in the world the planet would care why something completely seperate from itself exists in any way. But I feel the show had been fairly determined in pointing out seperations are illusions. And on logical and practical level, it doesn't really make sense to me to say that we do not affect the planet when it is literally everything 99.999% of humanity interacts with. The only exceptions are astronauts who have left the orbit and do shit on the moon and stuff, and even that is only for the duration that they are gone. We come from the earth. When we die, we go back to the earth. In our lives, we destroy and restore the earth in different parts. By changing the earth, we change things for ourselves. The planet is our home. So lets go, give me a good argument on this one point, and you've got it. How isn't it part of us, and we a part of it?
 
Aang wearing a vneck
scust.png

It's Tenzin.... and I fully believe he would rock the Jim Jones v-neck.

 

Trey

Member
Have we ever talked about how much family is represented in this show?

You have mako and Bolin finding their extended family. You got Korra and her drama with her uncle and cousins. You got tenzin's little spat with his siblings, and his kids having a little thing of their own. You have the beifongs and all their drama of course. You have Tarrlok and Amons nonsense.

I guess you can say it's a theme.
 

Veelk

Banned
Have we ever talked about how much family is represented in this show?

You have mako and Bolin finding their extended family. You got Korra and her drama with her uncle and cousins. You got tenzin's little spat with his siblings, and his kids having a little thing of their own. You have the beifongs and all their drama of course. You have Tarrlok and Amons nonsense.

I guess you can say it's a theme.
Yup. It was pretty big in TLA too.
 
That's why Kate was the best for him. Angel loves his blondes and Elisabeth Rohm is one hot ass blonde.



Dat older woman thirst.
BBP892y.gif

F'real tho. I like what her character arc ended up being, especially considering if they had given Angel a romantic interest right away, it would have felt contrived. "Boy I'm all torn up over Buffy oh boy there's a hot blonde I think I love her." I thought they were going there, too, but they didn't and I prefer that. Fun fact: Apparently, there were two episodes (one in a brothel and one in a strip club) in which we were supposed to see Kate. For some reason, the writers thought that having her "fall from grace" was best depicted by making her a stripper and/or prostitute (at a demon brothel, no less). Pretty happy about them not doing that. Really doesn't make sense. Then again she did just disappear. "Gee Angel thanks for saving me from suicide. Welp, bye now. Was discharged from the police force on pretty shitty terms so I can't be a cop again probably (I'm not sure how this works). Never see you or anyone ever again!"
The only reason it's unlikely is because it was written to be that way. That's the entire point of fanfiction, to create more stories where the original could not. I don't understand what the point of fan work is otherwise. I mean, how likely is it that Kuvira had a close relationship with Suyin as a child. Not very, given what we've seen. But the comics drawn are good because they depict something that deepens the relationship they have besides whats shown in the TV show.

Bah. I don't have time today to get into another back and forth. Think as you will, I just don't see the point of that particular philosophy.
Not really. I don't see that relationship coming to fruition in any way, shape, or form at any single stage of the game.
What's wrong with shipping an unlikely ship? For gay people, it's a way for them to engage in a story in a way that sees themselves represented. Sometimes it's just a fun, alternate take on the story.

The problems are people that get way too invested in shipping and attack others who ship competing pairings.

I totally do not support incest and other abusive shippings. That stuff is gross.
That's pretty much what I mean. That and the seriousness of some of it. I suppose that's mainly what I mean. I don't really indulge in fan art or fan fics either. Fan theories are about as close as I get.

I'm not demonizing shipping here. I really think I need to emphasize that. I just don't really care to get into it beyond what I see as a pairing that makes sense. Anything beyond that ends up being a matchmaking game and I'm not one who cares to play that role. Maybe it's poor real life experience with those types of people (those who love to play matchmaker), I don't know. It's just not an interest of mine and I don't care to dabble.
 
BBP892y.gif

F'real tho. I like what her character arc ended up being, especially considering if they had given Angel a romantic interest right away, it would have felt contrived. "Boy I'm all torn up over Buffy oh boy there's a hot blonde I think I love her." I thought they were going there, too, but they didn't and I prefer that. Fun fact: Apparently, there were two episodes (one in a brothel and one in a strip club) in which we were supposed to see Kate. For some reason, the writers thought that having her "fall from grace" was best depicted by making her a stripper and/or prostitute (at a demon brothel, no less). Pretty happy about them not doing that. Really doesn't make sense. Then again she did just disappear. "Gee Angel thanks for saving me from suicide. Welp, bye now. Was discharged from the police force on pretty shitty terms so I can't be a cop again probably (I'm not sure how this works). Never see you or anyone ever again!"
She left mostly cause of time and I'm sure she was getting a bigger paycheck from Law and Order. I'm going to have to rewatch season 5, but I'm pretty sure him and Kate had more chemistry than him and Nina, but I wasn't too mad at that pairing though.
Man after watching Kill La Kill twice since watching this I finally get it. Zhu Li is definitely Inumuta, I guess Varrick is a fitting Nonon, Bolin isn't as smart as Sanegyma (?) Bataar has too much simp status to be Gamagoori though.
 
She left mostly cause of time and I'm sure she was getting a bigger paycheck from Law and Order. I'm going to have to rewatch season 5, but I'm pretty sure him and Kate had more chemistry than him and Nina, but I wasn't too mad at that pairing though.

Well that is why Elizabeth Rohm actually left, yes. It's also why they couldn't bring her back for those scenes.

Nina and Angel weren't seen together much at all. Quite literally three episodes: Unleashed, Smile Time, and Power Play. They didn't really do much with her aside from giving Angel a subplot and showing off how...perky, she was.

Exactly. That's why fanfiction changes the game,so it can come in.
If you have to concoct a gamebreaking scenario in order to make your thing work, then it doesn't work, and I'm not going to entertain it. Go ahead and do it with yourself and all the others who enjoy it, by all means, go. I don't want to ruin your fun. Just don't try to convince me, specifically, that it's likely or how interesting it would be, because in order to make it work, you have to break the game. That's like taking two people and saying that in an alternate reality, they'd be perfect together. Okay, fine (way too many variables, but fine), but it's not and I don't see the point.
 
Well that is why Elizabeth Rohm actually left, yes. It's also why they couldn't bring her back for those scenes.

Nina and Angel weren't seen together much at all. Quite literally three episodes: Unleashed, Smile Time, and Power Play. They didn't really do much with her aside from giving Angel a subplot and showing off how...perky, she was.
Well this explains why I really don't remember much about their interactions. At least Kate and Angel wanted each other...Kate definitely wanted him and Angel was pretty much Angel so that was never going to work out. And he didn't get proper advice regarding his curse from Wes until much later in the show. What's with these guys and blondes? Dexter has the same problem. The only woman I liked from his dating pool was Lilah...Hannah's hot, but his brain shot out of his dick after blowing his load with her. With Angel I only like Kate and Cordelia...pre hair cut Cordelia, my crack ship is him and Faith.
 
Well this explains why I really don't remember much about their interactions. At least Kate and Angel wanted each other...Kate definitely wanted him and Angel was pretty much Angel so that was never going to work out. And he didn't get proper advice regarding his curse from Wes until much later in the show. What's with these guys and blondes? Dexter has the same problem. The only woman I liked from his dating pool was Lilah...Hannah's hot, but his brain shot out of his dick after blowing his load with her. With Angel I only like Kate and Cordelia...pre hair cut Cordelia, my crack ship is him and Faith.
They straight up joke about Angel's affinity for blondes a shit ton. It's just a character trait. Darla actually shits on his relationship with Buffy by basically saying he went with her instead of Darla because "she was something new."

As for Wes giving Angel advice on the curse...it was a point made several times over the course of the show that perfect happiness is a really rare occurrence. It's just that Angel didn't want to risk it and as long as Angel was miserable he had something to fight for, which fed into the prophecy and why everyone followed him like they did. The whole point of S5 is sort of "We're doing the best we can, right? I mean if we can't win, what's the point?"

It's why I like S5 so much. Scumbag tactics reign highly in that season, and they are glorious.
 

Veelk

Banned
If you have to concoct a gamebreaking scenario in order to make your thing work, then it doesn't work, and I'm not going to entertain it. Go ahead and do it with yourself and all the others who enjoy it, by all means, go. I don't want to ruin your fun. Just don't try to convince me, specifically, that it's likely or how interesting it would be, because in order to make it work, you have to break the game. That's like taking two people and saying that in an alternate reality, they'd be perfect together. Okay, fine (way too many variables, but fine), but it's not and I don't see the point.

If you reject concoction then you reject not just fanfiction, but fiction in general. Even Katara and Aang didn't come out of nowhere, it was build up over a series of situations that lead up to where that final kiss and closing shot of the series was earned. Without those scenes 'concocting' the romance between them, then the romance wouldn't have happened. Fanfiction is just an extension of what already happens in an piece of fiction.
 
If you reject concoction then you reject not just fanfiction, but fiction in general. Even Katara and Aang didn't come out of nowhere, it was build up over a series of situations that lead up to where that final kiss and closing shot of the series was earned. Without those scenes 'concocting' the romance between them, then the romance wouldn't have happened. Fanfiction is just an extension of what already happens in an piece of fiction.
I'm spinning in circles here.

Either way, I thought you were too tired to have another back and forth?
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm spinning in circles here.

Either way, I thought you were too tired to have another back and forth?

Not a multi paragraph one.

But I do agree that we're spinning in circles. What you are saying is akin to saying "I have no problem with consumption, but I don't buy all this 'eating' business you keep talking about" or "Intercourse is all well and good, but I'm not a big fan of sticking my penis in any vagina". It literally makes no sense to me.
 

Veelk

Banned
Depends on how you look at it. He is from the land of fire, so putting it into avatar context, that makes since.

I agree air would make the pic less jarring though.

Wasn't Naruto an immigrant from Whirlpool though? Then it should be water, right?

Edit: Ah, no that was his mom, and his dad was native fire country. So....I guess fire fits.
 
Not a multi paragraph one.

But I do agree that we're spinning in circles. What you are saying is akin to saying "I have no problem with consumption, but I don't buy all this 'eating' business you keep talking about" or "Intercourse is all well and good, but I'm not a big fan of sticking my penis in any vagina". It literally makes no sense to me.

I'm having a really hard time articulating myself, but I think I got it. If you feel like it, bear with me:

Basically, I look at a piece of fiction as its own reality. ATLA and TLoK are set in their own reality, for example. I look at fan fiction and fan speculation differently as well: I see fan fiction as basically changing reality. Rearranging the building blocks, so to speak. I see fan speculation as, well, just that: Speculation. Basically saying "here is how I think this reality will end up being, and why I think this."

When you tell me that Azula and Aang work as fan fiction, what I'm hearing is "These things work if you change everything about them, because otherwise they don't work." It's a really obvious thing to say, and I just kind of discount it. It's like saying "this table can stand, if we change it's design and the materials used."

If you had told me, though, at a certain point in time in the story, that you think Azula and Aang could work and told me why, I'd listen. I'd think you were crazy, but I'd listen regardless.

I'm having a really rough time articulating myself with this, so I'm banking on this not making sense at all. I'm either coming off as a massive douche, a moron, or both.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm having a really hard time articulating myself, but I think I got it. If you feel like it, bear with me:

Basically, I look at a piece of fiction as its own reality. ATLA and TLoK are set in their own reality, for example. I look at fan fiction and fan speculation differently as well: I see fan fiction as basically changing reality. Rearranging the building blocks, so to speak. I see fan speculation as, well, just that: Speculation. Basically saying "here is how I think this reality will end up being, and why I think this."

When you tell me that Azula and Aang work as fan fiction, what I'm hearing is "These things work if you change everything about them, because otherwise they don't work." It's a really obvious thing to say, and I just kind of discount it. It's like saying "this table can stand, if we change it's design and the materials used."

If you had told me, though, at a certain point in time in the story, that you think Azula and Aang could work and told me why, I'd listen. I'd think you were crazy, but I'd listen regardless.

I'm having a really rough time articulating myself with this, so I'm banking on this not making sense at all. I'm either coming off as a massive douche, a moron, or both.

I understand what your getting at, but the mistake you make is that the belief that that's not how it works for normal fiction. For example, using your logic, "Yeah, Zuko could be a member of the Gaang, but you'd have to change a lot of his character." And that's exactly what they did. And it was wonderful, some of the strongest writing in the entire show. What you are talking about is called character development. What you are talking about, the 'rearranging of blocks' is basic fiction writing, fan or original. What, you think that original fiction simply spawned out of thin air, straight out of the author's head, unchanged, unrearranged? No. And I'm sorry to tell you, but fanfiction is pretty much just as 'real' as any fiction. Fiction, by definition, is not reality. But if it's done well enough, we can end Aang/Azula, or Zutara, or Kataang, or Momo/Toph, or Zuko switching sides, or basically anything.
 
I understand what your getting at, but the mistake you make is that the belief that that's not how it works for normal fiction. For example, using your logic, "Yeah, Zuko could be a member of the Gaang, but you'd have to change a lot of his character." And that's exactly what they did. And it was wonderful, some of the strongest writing in the entire show. What you are talking about is called character development. What you are talking about, the 'rearranging of blocks' is basic fiction writing, fan or original. What, you think that original fiction simply spawned out of thin air, straight out of the author's head, unchanged, unrearranged? No. And I'm sorry to tell you, but fanfiction is pretty much just as 'real' as any fiction. Fiction, by definition, is not reality. But if it's done well enough, we can end Aang/Azula, or Zutara, or Kataang, or Momo/Toph, or Zuko switching sides, or basically anything.
This got kinda condescending real quick. I didn't say I think fiction spawned out of thin air, but I think my ultimate point is going to wheel things around to a debate about canon, and I've already seen where that goes and I don't want to go there. So I'm going to leave this here and be on my merry.
 

Veelk

Banned
This got kinda condescending real quick. I didn't say I think fiction spawned out of thin air, but I think my ultimate point is going to wheel things around to a debate about canon, and I've already seen where that goes and I don't want to go there. So I'm going to leave this here and be on my merry.

Well, any condescension on my part was not intended. All the same, I think you're entirely wrong. So this is my last post on the matter to you.

But just so you know, this has nothing to do with canon vs noncanon, this is just a matter of how fiction is produced. Even Kinvara agreed with the point that fiction, fan or otherwise, is the rearrangement of existing ideas. Our only difference is the degree to which the rearrangement merits legitimacy, since established ideas are already constructed for you to a greater degree than original fiction, which has you doing everything from the ground up. (unless your writing anything based on anything else, but that's a different debate)

It's fairly easy to prove this too. Take any character you like, and break down all aspects to their most basic units. For example, Zuko is a dark haired boy with a burn scar over his eye with a complex family and honor issues. Do dark colors exist? Yes? Does hair exist? Yes. Do boys exist? Scars from burning? Eyes? Families? Honor? Issues? Has complexity existed before Zuko came into existance? Therefore, Zuko is the arrangement of existing ideas into a fictional character. But suppose I am a fanfic writer and I want to make Zuko a blond. Well, yes, I am rearranging things, as you said before, but this act is not functionally different than what the original writer did.

Do this with any character you like. You'll ever find a singular trait that has not appeared elsewhere. Originality isn't 'creation', it is arrangement. All the individual elements of Zuko appeared elsewhere, but Zuko is still an original character because that particular arrangement of elements that make up Zuko have never been seen anywhere else.
 
Well, any condescension on my part was not intended. All the same, I think you're entirely wrong. But it is probably a good idea we end this. Suffice to say, I think you are entirely wrong, and I'll gladly make a post explaining myself in more depth sometime in the future when I have more time.

But just so you know, this has nothing to do with canon vs noncanon. Even Kinvara agreed with the point that fiction, fan or otherwise, is the rearrangement of existing ideas. Our only difference is the degree to which the rearrangement merits legitimacy, since established ideas are already constructed for you to a greater degree than original fiction, which has you doing everything from the ground up.

frozen-anna-cold-cold-cold.gif
 

Veelk

Banned

I edited it. Not everything I write comes out perfect, jeez. :/

You could say I had to rearrange my original content, to make it work. So if it helps, you can consider the above post fanfiction of that original post.

Edit: Or...is it that you are referring to condensation and me thinking your wrong bit? I don't think less of you for your position, but that doesn't mean I have agree with it at all. I can still think your entirely wrong. If you think I have some obligation to give a position credence when I don't think it deserves any to not be condescending, then I can't do that, sorry.
 
I edited it. Not everything I write comes out perfect, jeez. :/

You could say I had to rearrange my original content, to make it work. So if it helps, you can consider the above post fanfiction of that original post.

Edit: Or...is it that you are referring to condensation and me thinking your wrong bit? I don't think less of you for your position, but that doesn't mean I have agree with it at all. I can still think your entirely wrong. If you think I have some obligation to give a position credence when I don't think it deserves any to not be condescending, then I can't do that, sorry.

That last post was just fucking with you.

I also enjoy using that gif and I don't have enough reasons to use it.
 
so this is basically a canon argument then

hmmmmm :p
Only thing missing is the talk about eggs benedict.
Can anybody? Even if I were to ever argue with you I'd probably eventually go "fuck this shit" and hit the bed.
Veelk is M. Bison confirmed.

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It's easier to break into Shadowloo than it is to have a concise argument with him.
He will be missed. He was a really good and stand up person that didn't really deserve some of the stuff that happened to him. I hope he can right his ship and live the life that he wants to live.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Someone made an alternate ending to Korra Season 4. I kind of prefer it if only because it fleshes out the development Korra has gone through as a character and reaffirms the place she is at now even more strongly. It ommits KorrAsami, but as an ending I feel that being this Korra centric is better. Still love me my Korra and Asami though, and I still like it as a part of the ending to be sure, but as a capstone this is pretty nice.

The person who made it is a Mako/Korra shipper but eh, I like everything after it just implying that.

except the song played over everything

http://vimeo.com/117340816
 
Someone made an alternate ending to Korra Season 4. I kind of prefer it if only because it fleshes out the development Korra has gone through as a character and reaffirms the place she is at now even more strongly. It ommits KorrAsami, but as an ending I feel that being this Korra centric is better. Still love me my Korra and Asami though, and I still like it as a part of the ending to be sure, but as a capstone this is pretty nice.

The person who made it is a Mako/Korra shipper but eh, I like everything after it just implying that.

except the song played over everything

http://vimeo.com/117340816

Omg tenzinorra

Nah I'm just kidding. I liked it. Showing flashbacks like that seems a bit cliched but it could have worked.

I just wonder if Bryke could have ended it without any romance.
 

Daemul

Member
Someone made an alternate ending to Korra Season 4. I kind of prefer it if only because it fleshes out the development Korra has gone through as a character and reaffirms the place she is at now even more strongly. It ommits KorrAsami, but as an ending I feel that being this Korra centric is better. Still love me my Korra and Asami though, and I still like it as a part of the ending to be sure, but as a capstone this is pretty nice.

The person who made it is a Mako/Korra shipper but eh, I like everything after it just implying that.

except the song played over everything

http://vimeo.com/117340816

tumblr_n7zzpd30aZ1qzdfwko1_400.gif


It's alright. It still has the issue of most other characters not getting some form of closure, only worse because this time Asami joins the long list of characters who didn't get closure.
 
Depends on how you look at it. He is from the land of fire, so putting it into avatar context, that makes since.

I agree air would make the pic less jarring though.

Wasn't Naruto an immigrant from Whirlpool though? Then it should be water, right?

Edit: Ah, no that was his mom, and his dad was native fire country. So....I guess fire fits.

I guess it works, then.

Man, I have no clue what's gonna fill the void of both of those properties for me.
 

Lethe82

Banned
tumblr_n7zzpd30aZ1qzdfwko1_400.gif


It's alright. It still has the issue of most other characters not getting some form of closure, only worse because this time Asami joins the long list of characters who didn't get closure.

Would things have been better had (with the vanilla ending) we seen a scene with Bolin and Opal being happy etc? I sort of feel like lot of the side characters more or less resolved and completed their personal arcs.

That being said:

Mako: The scene with him should have had him acknowledging what a jerk he was when he was younger, how he learned to like himself and be content with who he is unlike when he was younger (so he no longer felt the need to jump at every girl that showed interest as validation) and he's in a good place (maybe have him realize that he gets deep personal satisfaction from helping others, and how seeing Wu mature in part because of him helped him to realize this). Apologize for everything back then, give some hint about what he plans to do next (maybe rejoin the police, helping to keep people safe while the city is being rebuilt) say how he's glad that he and Korra are still friends after everything, and then do the part where he says 'I'll have your back no matter what'.

Would have been a better conversation imo.

Bolin really came into his own in the 11th hour of the series. Even the part where he simply says to Mako "Ok, but for the record I do not approve" was such a demonstration of his out of nowhere growth in season 4.
 

Kinvara

Member
First off, there are many intepretations of enlightenment. It's one of those ineffable things, as is the value of life. For example, there is one buddhist story where two students work arguing about which should keep a cat. The teacher came in and said whoever speaks a word of zen will can keep the cat. Neither of them do so. So he rips the cat in half as a demonstration of zen, killing it. When i asked how can this be a demonstration of zen, I was pointed out that with reincarnation, the teacher has not truly killed the cat, only allowed a reincarnation to take place. I don't know if I buy quite that, but you can't tell me "This is enlightenment", because according to buddists themselves, there is no singular answer they can give. Like the seemingly cruel teacher, It could be his enlightenment is detachment from life in the heart beat sense but values life in the cosmic sense.

Second, you're saying Yang Chen. Yang Chen the avatar. The avatar is wrong talking about what it means to be the avatar. Look, I love Aang too, but if you're taking this route, then you're saying that all last 4 of the avatars before Aang have been collosal, complete lols worthy epic fails and Aang is the only one that got the dalai lama thing even remotely right.

That isn't the full version of the story and the killing of the cat may have been a metaphorical one but that's beside point.

In Yangchen's time, she must have experienced events that led to her to have to kill. We don't know the details of her time as avatar. She had to sacrifice her personal enlightenment/principles in order to fulfill her duties. It might have been the only option even if it wasn't that doesn't make her or the others shit avatars.

But it's clear that her way/opinion of being the avatar isn't the only way to go about bringing world peace.

The nations were irrelevant. The spirits were angry at humans and their actions- not at a particular nation. It's clear they view the human conflict between nations as petty/irrelevant and spirits only care when the humans take advantage of them or hurt them. Humanity is a part of the planet and I never argued otherwise? But whether humans die or go extinct is irrelevant to the health of the planet. Conflicts between humans even more so. If humans kill each other all off, the world will still exist and might even be better for it. Conflicts over resources arise when people don't care about others. And want to keep everything for themselves.

Maybe you should rewatch the series as those environmental episodes are sub-plots in comparison to the larger theme/plot.

You're placing the burden of proof on me to try a prove a negative.

Your interpretation is a severe distortion of the main plot/theme of the series. You're free to think that way, I suppose. But you're trying to force A:TLA into conforming into your own ideas as to what it should be.
 

Veelk

Banned
That isn't the full version of the story and the killing of the cat may have been a metaphorical one but that's beside point.

In Yangchen's time, she must have experienced events that led to her to have to kill. We don't know the details of her time as avatar. She had to sacrifice her personal enlightenment/principles in order to fulfill her duties. It might have been the only option even if it wasn't that doesn't make her or the others shit avatars.

But it's clear that her way/opinion of being the avatar isn't the only way to go about bringing world peace.

The nations were irrelevant. The spirits were angry at humans and their actions- not at a particular nation. It's clear they view the human conflict between nations as petty/irrelevant and spirits only care when the humans take advantage of them or hurt them. Humanity is a part of the planet and I never argued otherwise? But whether humans die or go extinct is irrelevant to the health of the planet. Conflicts between humans even more so. If humans kill each other all off, the world will still exist and might even be better for it. Conflicts over resources arise when people don't care about others. And want to keep everything for themselves.

Maybe you should rewatch the series as those environmental episodes are sub-plots in comparison to the larger theme/plot.

You're placing the burden of proof on me to try a prove a negative.

Your interpretation is a severe distortion of the main plot/theme of the series. You're free to think that way, I suppose. But you're trying to force A:TLA into conforming into your own ideas as to what it should be.

Frankly, I think the same about what your doing.

When I say provide a reason for why it's not the case, I'm not asking you to prove a negative, what I mean is you have to invalidate the case I have built for why the humanity IS a part of the earth. Because I feel I've provided a pretty good explanation for how the actions of nations affect the earth, and you're only counter to that is "Nuh-uh" without really providing a reason for why my reasons don't work. If the planet cares about the life that's on it, what excludes humanity from that care? If it does cares about 'humans and their actions" then by extension they HAVE to care about the nations, because that's how humanity defines itself and decides what actions it takes as a society. There would be no 'petty/irrelevent war' if it weren't for the fact that fire nations humans had certain beliefs about governance.

Your disagreement with me relies on arguing that the planet is indifferent to the biggest source of impact on it's global ecosystem.
 

Lethe82

Banned
More Ron and April.... I mean Lin and Mako from Makanidotdot.

I love these.

That isn't the full version of the story and the killing of the cat may have been a metaphorical one but that's beside point.

In Yangchen's time, she must have experienced events that led to her to have to kill. We don't know the details of her time as avatar. She had to sacrifice her personal enlightenment/principles in order to fulfill her duties. It might have been the only option even if it wasn't that doesn't make her or the others shit avatars.

But it's clear that her way/opinion of being the avatar isn't the only way to go about bringing world peace.

The thing about the other Avatars (as we all saw them) is that they were all individuals shaped by their own experiences who did things differently from one another, only Yang Chen was telling Aang "You really have to kill this dude, sorry", who by her own admission did not achieve enlightenment (as she saw it, but then again consider that Aang might not have even been having this internal conflict had he been born under another nations tutelage).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol040QSq_kk

Roku was lenient and showed restrained. "You must be decisive"
Kyoshi did whatever she felt right and was brutal. "Only justice will bring peace"
Kuruk was a passive non-interventionist. "actively shape your own destiny and the destiny of the world"

All the other Avatars were just giving him their perspectives based on the environments of their lifetime. Aang ultimately fulfilled everything the other Avatars said he should do, in light of them being able to retrospectively look back on their own lives.
 
Oh good thing that was quoted or else I would have completely missed that. Hope Azula continues on the right track. Maybe one day he'll become one of those upbeat motivational speakers with tragic backstories who speak at school assemblies.
 
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