• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

Status
Not open for further replies.

Veelk

Banned
The trail was obviously a sham, Korra had enough hints before hand and the notion that she was doing this 'just because she felt like it' doesn't add up.

See above posts for more details. There isn't any reason to not think she wouldn't have killed the judge, and she already nearly had when she slammed naga into his car. She's pissed and she's the goddamn avatar, so Korra's gonna smash shit until she gets what she wants. That's literally her character at that point.

As far as the actual trial goes, obviously, the evidence is weak, but that's more of a result of the laws being effectively different and Korra just not being very smart. For one, a relative cannot be forced to testify against a family member like she was here. But really, if Korra had actually thought that the clearly weak evidence was weak, she'd have just said so instead of yelling threats. It's a sham trial, from various angles, but the point I am making is that Korra wasn't thinking from any of them. She wasn't trying to point out how circumstantial the evidence was or even how one of the prisoners admitted to her that her father wasn't part of the coup. There's nothing indicating Korra knew anything.

Also, the judge didn't end up sentencing the parents to death. Just the father to life in prison.
 
She wasn't. She was with them later, but as I said, for her to trust Verrick, it would basically require her to see Unalaq for what he is before he was revealed, on the basis of the word of a guy who openly admitted he'd be willing to start a war to maintain his wealth. If she trusted Unalaq during and post the trial(which she obviously did), then she must have either not heard of Verrick's word, or just didn't believe it. And again, that's perfectly reasonable when even she couldn't find a fault in the trial, so I can't think of any explanation for how she could say the trial was rigged.

And Korra already risked killing him when she nearly ran him off the fucking cliff he was driving. What if he hadn't turned hard enough? He'd have gone tumbling down the mountain side and in all likelihood died. Might as well let Naga maul her. After all, she's Jack Baer now, and we know from well documented research that torture always works, right? But I guess you're right. If she was faking it, no harm done. After all, it's okay to threaten people with your giant vicious polar bear dog as long as it all works out in the end, right?

Yeah, remind me, how does Aang's little letter crisis look in comparison to this?

I think you're starting to put words in my mouth and projecting a little bit or something. I never said it was okay to threaten people, and in fact I think what Korra did was pretty stupid and not okay. That also being said, I've also never been in the middle of a war, so I can't really fault the way someone acts in that kind of scenario when I have no idea how I would either.

Korra needed the information and there was no way she'd let that guy die or kill him, and I know there are people who won't respond to rationale or reasoning. I'm not going to act like I'm above torture when I've never been a situation where it was a possibility. Though I probably wouldn't be able to stomach it.

Do I think Korra should have taken a different turn of action and acted more rationally? Yes. Do I know if I would have acted more rationally? No. And therefore I can't condemn what she did. Her father was in prison, some seriously sinister shit was going down, and she acted on her emotions. That's all there is to take on it.

And no, I never felt Aang hiding the letter was that bad. He was trying to keep his only "family" together and was scared they'd leave. Should he have talked to them about it? Sure. Would I have talked to them about it? I don't know, so I again, I can't condemn him.
 

Veelk

Banned
I think you're starting to put words in my mouth and projecting a little bit or something. I never said it was okay to threaten people, and in fact I think what Korra did was pretty stupid and not okay. That also being said, I've also never been in the middle of a war, so I can't really fault the way someone acts in that kind of scenario when I have no idea how I would either.

Korra needed the information and there was no way she'd let that guy die or kill him, and I know there are people who won't respond to rationale or reasoning. I'm not going to act like I'm above torture when I've never been a situation where it was a possibility. Though I probably wouldn't be able to stomach it.

Do I think Korra should have taken a different turn of action and acted more rationally? Yes. Do I know if I would have acted more rationally? No. And therefore I can't condemn what she did. Her father was in prison, some seriously sinister shit was going down, and she acted on her emotions. That's all there is to take on it.

And no, I never felt Aang hiding the letter was that bad. He was trying to keep his only "family" together and was scared they'd leave. Should he have talked to them about it? Sure. Would I have talked to them about it? I don't know, so I again, I can't condemn him.

I mixed up you and lethe. My bad.

I can agree that that's what was going on. Like you, in that situation, I might do some bad things to ensure the safety and freedom of my loved ones too. But I disagree that it would be good of me to do so. I'd be performing evil and I don't deny that. From that point, I feel we can condemn Korra as having acted immorally. And I think it's giving Korra too much credit to claim she wouldn't have killed him. She already nearly ran him off the cliffside. I realize she needed information, and she'd need him alive for that, but like you said, she wasn't being rationale. It's perfectly within the realm of possibility that she'd have gone "Fuck it. Dinner time, naga" if she didn't get what she wanted.
 

Lethe82

Banned
See above posts for more details. There isn't any reason to not think she wouldn't have killed the judge, and she already nearly had when she slammed naga into his car. She's pissed and she's the goddamn avatar, so Korra's gonna smash shit until she gets what she wants. That's literally her character at that point.

Korra has never followed through with any of her terminal/implied violent threats on defenseless people in the entire series, see Baatar as the final example. You can play a logistical what if game with the road scene and his driving, but that runs contrary to the established tone of the show. This is a show where Tenzins air bending magically knocks enemies away to adjacent roof tops in season 1. Korra is the Avatar, if something had happened to his car she could have easily used her bending to save it. Neither her intent nor the authorial intent of the scene was to show her attempting to place his life in true jeopardy. I know you don't care much about authorial intent but this is not a situation where the author is dead applies, she had plenty of means to save the car were it something happened and she clearly was not intending to strike the car with enough force to run it off the edge.

Also by the simple fact that Korra isn't a killer; she said to the judge 'If you kill these people, I'll kill you' in a moment of shock and anger, but threats and reality are very different things.

As far as the actual trial goes, obviously, the evidence is weak, but that's more of a result of the laws being effectively different and Korra just not being very smart. For one, a relative cannot be forced to testify against a family member like she was here. But really, if Korra had actually thought that the clearly weak evidence was weak, she'd have just said so instead of yelling threats.

Or she realized the evidence was weak and just yelled threats because that's how she was in season 2 a hot head. Keep in mind she had just been told that her father would be killed. Your defense is that the protagonist would simply ignore obvious information that was clearly communicated to her and the viewer prior to the trial, and that doesn't hold up.

It's a sham trial, from various angles, but the point I am making is that Korra wasn't thinking from any of them. She wasn't trying to point out how circumstantial the evidence was or even how one of the prisoners admitted to her that her father wasn't part of the coup. There's nothing indicating Korra knew anything.

She absolutely was, she saw that the evidence to convict her father wasn't enough and believed that strongly enough to simply go to him and say 'I'm going to bust you out', he says no and she agrees not to do anything rash until she sees her mother breaking down, so she goes to the source of the issue the judge, and tries to get information from him. 'It's not about what I want it's about what Naga wants..." is classic threatening to get information 101.

Regardless your original supposition that Korra thought justice had been carried out or that the trial was fair has no basis. She clearly believed that her parents were innocent based on the information she had prior (that's why she yelled it out after all!) and that is why the judges conduct and then sentence provoked such a strong reaction out of her.

EDIT: I will say that it's within the realm of possibility that she could have hurt/killed him out of extreme anger during that time, but it's not likely given her character and the tenor of the show. That is still far different than her having done that thinking everything to do with the trial was on the up and up and you were saying.
 
I mixed up you and lethe. My bad.

I can agree that that's what was going on. Like you, in that situation, I might do some bad things to ensure the safety and freedom of my loved ones too. But I disagree that it would be good of me to do so. I'd be performing evil and I don't deny that. From that point, I feel we can condemn Korra as having acted immorally. And I think it's giving Korra too much credit to claim she wouldn't have killed him. She already nearly ran him off the cliffside. I realize she needed information, and she'd need him alive for that, but like you said, she wasn't being rationale. It's perfectly within the realm of possibility that she'd have gone "Fuck it. Dinner time, naga" if she didn't get what she wanted.

I don't really want to get into a philosophical debate here, because it goes nowhere every single time, but saying something is "immoral" really doesn't mean anything. You're basing it on a scale of good and evil and that scale is different for everyone.

Me personally? I don't think Korra would have killed him. I think she'd beat the shit out of him and leave him on the side of the road battered and bloody, but she wouldn't kill him. I don't think so, anyways.
 

Veelk

Banned
Korra has never followed through with any of her terminal/implied violent threats on defenseless people in the entire series, see Baatar as the final example. You can play a logistical what if game with the road scene and his driving, but that runs contrary to the established tone of the show. This is a show where Tenzins air bending magically knocks enemies away to adjacent roof tops in season 1. Korra is the Avatar, if something had happened to his car she could have easily used her bending to save it. Neither her intent nor the authorial intent of the scene was to show he attempting to place his life in true jeopardy.

Also by the simple fact that Korra isn't a killer; she said to the judge 'If you kill these people, I'll kill you' in a moment of shock and anger, but threats and reality are very different things.

Here, you're playing the "it wouldn't have happened because the author wouldn't have made it happen" game. Korra never followed through on her threats because they always gave in or something interupted her. Bataar is Korra post character development, where she specifically talked how 'back then, I'd have wrekt ur shit boy, but now I'll just blue ball you'. Meaning here, she'd have followed through, if she had to.

But yes, you're right. It wouldn't have happened. If Korra had tried, something would have interrupted her. If the car had swerved off the road, it'd have landed on a magical patch of land where the guy couldn't have been harmed. If Korra had told Naga to rip the guy's face off, Naga's teeth would have spontaneously faded from existence. Because, in this show, the main character of a children's cartoon isn't going to murder anyone.

But that doesn't change that her character, by all indication, seems to have been intent on trying it. She DID attack him recklessly enough that, logistically, he could have died had he just not been lucky enough to swerve to the side. You can't make stuff up of what could have happened to try and prove your point.


Or she realized the evidence was weak and just yelled threats because that's how she was in season 2 a hot head. Your defense is that the protagonist would simply ignore obvious information that was clearly communicated to her and the viewer prior to the trial, and that doesn't hold up.

She absolutely was, she saw that the evidence to convict her father wasn't enough and believed that strongly enough to simply go to him and say 'I'm going to bust you out', he says no and she agrees not to do anything rash until she sees her mother breaking down, so she goes to the source of the issue the judge, and tries to get information from him.

This entire argument is predicated on the idea that Korra is far more intelligent and savvy than anything we've seen indicated. It begs the simple question. If Korra saw how obviously circumstantial this evidence was, why didn't she just point it out? You're saying it's because she's somehow intelligent enough to see how this is bullshit, then later in control of her anger enough that she can easily threaten to run a guy off the road and maul him with her dog but never actually go through with it. But she's somehow too angry to even say "Well, this doesn't work because inteliigent reasons"?

The simpler and (and more consistent throughout the series) explanation for why she can't make that counter is the obvious: She doesn't know how. Korra is just not a thinker. Logic and argument is a foreign nation to her. She knows it's BS because her personal experience, and what frustrates her is that she can't prove it. Because it'd be one thing if she was pointing out how this evidence does not work and the judge was hearing none of it, and another for the oppostion to present flawed evidence and her to jump to rage and anger without even trying to point out how it's BS. Look, this is something she does the entire series. She doesn't make an argument for why Zaheer is wrong, he's just wrong. She doesn't make an argument for why Kuvira is wrong to take Zaofu, she just is. Hell, she couldn't even make a good argument for why Ryu should be an airbender. She didn't have an argument for Amon, and she didn't have an argument for the equalist she meets on her first day in republic city. Korra trusts her intuition whole heartedly, and is baffled at multiple points where her opponents don't fall in her line to her way of thinking just because she told them to. You're saying this is the one instance where she is perfectly aware of the logical flaws of the opponent's case, and doesn't say the exact thing that might get her parents off the hook because she's too angry that her parent's aren't getting off the hook?

I don't really want to get into a philosophical debate here, because it goes nowhere every single time, but saying something is "immoral" really doesn't mean anything. You're basing it on a scale of good and evil and that scale is different for everyone.

Me personally? I don't think Korra would have killed him. I think she'd beat the shit out of him and leave him on the side of the road battered and bloody, but she wouldn't kill him. I don't think so, anyways.
By that logic, no one can ever say anyone ever did anything wrong. There are plenty of ethical theories to choose from, so you're right, but I disagree that it doesn't mean anything.

I'll concede that she would never come in with the intent to kill him. But in her anger, it could easily just slip. That's what anger basically does.

Regardless your original supposition that Korra thought justice had been carried out or that the trial was fair has no basis. She clearly believed that her parents were innocent based on the information she had prior (that's why she yelled it out after all!) and that is why the judges conduct and then sentence provoked such a strong reaction out of her.

No, my original proposition was that she believed it was a fair trial. She knew her parents were innocent because the guy who actually tried to kidnap unalaq said her dad wouldn't go with them and she found her parents in their home the morning after the attempt. My original proposition is that she doesn't believe the trail was rigged. Merely that it was in error. And while that is objectionable as well, my point was that she was willing to risk killing an innocent judge that she has every reason to believe merely upheld justice to the best of his ability.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Here, you're playing the "it wouldn't have happened because the author wouldn't have made it happen" game. Korra never followed through on her threats because they always gave in or something interrupted her. Bataar is Korra post character development, where she specifically talked how 'back then, I'd have wrekt ur shit boy, but now I'll just blue ball you'. Meaning here, she'd have followed through, if she had to.

Or because she backed down.

And she doesn't say anything of the sort unless I missed the scene entirely in my viewings

But yes, you're right. It wouldn't have happened. If Korra had tried, something would have interrupted her. If the car had swerved off the road, it'd have landed on a magical patch of land where the guy couldn't have been harmed. If Korra had told Naga to rip the guy's face off, Naga's teeth would have spontaneously faded from existence. Because, in this show, the main character of a children's cartoon isn't going to murder anyone.

And yet she didn't and none of that happened. Why, because she was never going to kill him, it runs contrary to her established character in seasons 1 and 2, she's not a killer and killing him wouldn't have gotten her anything. While she was angry her goal in going after the dirty judge was based on deduced reasoning and rational thinking, if fueled by a ton of emotion.

But that doesn't change that her character, by all indication, seems to have been intent on trying it. She DID attack him recklessly enough that, logistically, he could have died had he just not been lucky enough to swerve to the side. You can't make stuff up of what could have happened to try and prove your point.

No that's your reading on the situation which runs contrary to her character up to that point, the tone of the show, and authorial intent. She did not chase him down with the intent of killing him. If she had and 'something would have stopped her' then that would have been the point of the scene, and it wasn't.

Unfortunately to a certain degree what the author intends for a scene does matter. No one build that scene with 'Korra is trying to kill him' in mind, that's not the information that's suppose to be being communicated, if they wrote a novelization or none of them would corroborate your interpretation.

There's a reason that she hit the car from the right side and not the left and if the car had started to swerve she could have water/air/earth bended the car to prevent it.

This entire argument is predicated on the idea that Korra is far more intelligent and savvy than anything we've seen indicated.

No your entire argument is predicated on the idea that Korra is stupider than anything we've seen indicated. You're literally saying that Korra is too stupid to absorb key scene information that was said straight to her face prior to the trial. Literally that's your argument; that because she said 'My parents are innocent!' instead of 'Your evidence is bad!' that she did not realize it was bad bad evidence or that trial was a sham when she was being railroaded.

It begs the simple question. If Korra saw how obviously circumstantial this evidence was, why didn't she just point it out? You're saying it's because she's somehow intelligent enough to see how this is bullshit, then later in control of her anger enough that she can easily threaten to run a guy off the road and maul him with her dog but never actually go through with it. But she's somehow too angry to even say "Well, this doesn't work because intelligent reasons"?

One is in the moment in a court room where she is on the spot and stressed to the max, and another is after she has had time to speak to her father, see her mother, and formulate a plan. Different situations different circumstances.

The simpler and (and more consistent throughout the series) explanation is that she can't see the BS. She knows it's BS because her personal experience, and what frustrates her is that she can't prove it. Because it'd be one thing if she was pointing out how this evidence does not work and the judge was hearing none of it, and another for the opposition to present flawed evidence and her to jump to rage and anger without even trying to point out how it's BS.

Of course she can't prove a negative in a kangaroo court. Of course she can see the bullshit, the judges actions run completely contrary to her uncles statement on him, she had rebel members outright stating that her father turned them down, the judge was clearly biased. She doesn't just know it's BS because of personal experience or some such (she has little to know experience in courts fyi), she knows it's BS because of the information before hand.

This all loops back around to how your original condemnation of her is just flat out wrong.

while thinking that the trial of her father's crimes wasn't rigged. As far as she thought, he had administered justice to the best of his ability...she just didn't care

So before she was doing the above and yet now you're saying "She knows it's (the trial) BS because her personal experience". So which is it? ;)

I don't really want to get into a philosophical debate here, because it goes nowhere every single time, but saying something is "immoral" really doesn't mean anything. You're basing it on a scale of good and evil and that scale is different for everyone.

Me personally? I don't think Korra would have killed him. I think she'd beat the shit out of him and leave him on the side of the road battered and bloody, but she wouldn't kill him. I don't think so, anyways.

Yeah the thing is Korra isn't a killer. That just not who her character is, there are killers in both TLA and LOK and she isn't one of them. Like Veek says, "No character in a kids cartoon is going to kill someone".

Also I have nothing against you Veelk, we just obviously disagree on this.
 
By that logic, no one can ever say anyone ever did anything wrong. There are plenty of ethical theories to choose from, so you're right, but I disagree that it doesn't mean anything.
I picked a poor choice of words here. It's not that it doesn't mean anything (obviously it does, it has a definition and usage), it's that I feel it doesn't carry any weight. Kind of like saying something is "overrated" and trying to pass that off as a criticism. Sure it means something, but it carries no weight as a criticism.
I'll concede that she would never come in with the intent to kill him. But in her anger, it could easily just slip. That's what anger basically does.
I'm not disagreeing she might not slip up. She's done it already at this point on separate occasions. I don't think she'd kill him in cold blood, though. Like, just cap him. She'd go berserk mode on him and then be like "fuck what have I done" type thing.

Kinda morbid right now. Are we pre-meditating murder, here?

Yeah the thing is Korra isn't a killer. That just not who her character is, there are killers in both TLA and LOK and she isn't one of them. Like Veek says, "No character in a kids cartoon is going to kill someone".
I'm pretty sure she was going to kill Tarrlok when they fought back in Book 1. She went at him with a lot of fire and knew he probably couldn't defend himself (bloodbend surprise). I'm betting she'd have killed him, intentionally or not.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Yeah that's a fair point, I remember thinking at the time 'uh are you going to kill him here or something?' then again characters in Avatar are absurdly durable, and if memory serves Zuko only got his scar from Ozai basically giving him and up close blast intentionally to do so. I don't think the part at the end (with the fire) would have been fatal considering that, but she was going too far in that scene.
 

Veelk

Banned
Or because she backed down.

And yet she didn't and none of that happened. Why, because she was never going to kill him, it runs contrary to her established character in seasons 1 and 2, she's not a killer and killing him wouldn't have gotten her anything. While she was angry her goal in going after the dirty judge was based on deduced reasoning and a rational approach.

No that's your reading on the situation which runs contrary to her character up to that point, the tone of the show, and authorial intent. She did not chase him down with the intent of killing him.

Unfortunately to a certain degree what the author intends for a scene does matter. No one build that scene with 'Korra is trying to kill him' in mind, that's not the information that's suppose to be being communicated, if they wrote a novelization or none of them would corroborate your interpretation.

There's a reason that she hit the car from the right side and not the left and if the car had started to swerve she could have water/air/earth bended the car to prevent it.

This style of argument reminds me of the walter white debate. "Oh, he didn't do anything wrong when he poisoned that kid. He's walter white, he knows his chemisty, so obviously he calculated it so that he wouldn't die no matter what".

At the very best case scenerio, she and walter white were willing to recklessly endanger innocents to get what they want. If someone tried something like this in real life and they argued "Oh, I am an expert in X, so they weren't in any real danger", they're ass would be thrown in jail. And really, your argument is that Korra wouldn't have killed him because she hasn't killed before. Most of Korra's threats against people never reach their breaking point for one reason or another. It was never indicated that her method of operation is to threaten death, but never follow through. But even if what your saying is true, Korra has NEVER been as pissed as she was here. There is plenty of room of possibility that she was genuine in her threats.

No your entire argument is predicated on the idea that Korra is stupider than anything we've seen indicated. You're literally saying that Korra is too stupid to absorb information that was said straight to her face prior to the trial. Literally that's your enlargement, that because she said 'My parents are innocent!' instead of 'Your evidence is bad!' that she did not realize it was bad.

One is in the moment in a court room where she is on the spot and stressed to the max, and another is after she has had time to speak to her father, see her mother, and formulate a plan. Different situations different circumstances.

Of course she can't prove a negative in a kangaroo court. Of course she can see the bullshit, the judges actions run completely contrary to her uncles statement on him, she had rebel members outright stating that her father turned them down, the judge was clearly biased. She doesn't just know it's BS because of personal experience or some such (she has little to know experience in courts fyi), she knows it's BS because of the information before hand.

You can't say it's a kangeroo court unless the legitimate defenses have been thrown out for no reason. Presenting a flawed argument, by itself, is not enough. The problem is that no legitimate defense had been offered. Yelling "Your evidence is bad!" would have been just as baseless as "My parents are innocent!". Neither of those are arguments, they're statements. However, "Your evidence is circumstantial. While you can prove X, Y and Z is involved, that does not necessarily prove my father did anything and in fact X over there said my father wasn't involved." THAT would have been an argument. But nothing of the sort is presented. Just her yelling the other person is wrong because they're wrong. That's what she always does. Why should I assume this situation is any different?

And yes, I really do think Korra is just that dumb. Or if dumb is too not nice a word, then she has extraordinary poor reasoning skills. As I mentioned in my edits above, at no point, even once she gets her character development does she make anything resembling a good logical argument whenever she gets into a debate.

Edit: you're wording is also kind of funny. A kangeroo court would be the ONLY place you could 'prove' a negative. Because it's actually logically impossible to do that .

This all loops back around to how your original condemnation of her is just flat out wrong.

So before she was doing the above and yet now you're saying "She knows it's (the trial) BS because her personal experience". So which is it? ;)

Personal experience means she knows a fact, but she doesn't have the reasoning skills to prove it. If you asked her to prove a rock is a rock, a person skilled at reasoning might point to it's hardness, it's texture, etc. all being properties of a rock, and therefore it's likely to be a rock. Korra would just tell you it's a rock. Korra knows her parents are innocent, but when lousy evidence is thrown against them, she can't think of how it can possibly be invalidated. That's what I meant. There's no contradiction there. Perhaps you should reread my previous posts and understand what I am saying more clearly, yeah? 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
Hm...fair point. This could be post-character development Korra talking, but who knows if her threats before were genuine. That said, the fact that we don't have solid proof of her not following through until season 4 should be indicative of how questionable her behavior is. But considering how personal a crisis Korra was in, it's still easily possible she was being genuine in her threats. Korra had never been angrier than then. And the point I'm making is that anger makes you slip. She might have not intended to follow through on any threat, but if she doesn't get what she wants.....I'm pretty sure it's still murder if you go in with the intent to make a threat, never follow through, and then end up following through anyway.
 

Lethe82

Banned
This style of argument reminds me of the walter white debate. "Oh, he didn't do anything wrong when he poisoned that kid. He's walter white, he knows his chemisty, so obviously he calculated it so that he wouldn't die no matter what".

Completely different shows with completely different rules. Also incidentally that is the in universe explanation that Walter White gives.

At the very best case scenario, she and walter white were willing to recklessly endanger innocents to get what they want. If someone tried something like this in real life and they argued "Oh, I am an expert in X, so they weren't in any real danger", they're ass would be thrown in jail.

Projecting our norms onto two fictitious universes is fun. I won't be drawn into a Breaking Bad debate even if you are attempting to use it as a flawed parallel. Principally but not limited to the fact that you are committing a fallacy in equating both Brock and the Judge as equals in so far as being innocents.

The judge was already obviously dirty, and the trial was a sham as you yourself admitted. Ergo the judge was complicit in something underhanded ergo not an innocent. Brock had no such ignoble qualifiers attached.

And really, your argument is that Korra wouldn't have killed him because she hasn't killed before. Korra never didn't kill anyone because she always just wanted to threaten them. Most of Korra's threats against people never reach their breaking point for one reason or another. It was never indicated that her method of operation is to threaten death, but never follow through. But even if what your saying is true, Korra has NEVER been as pissed as she was here. There is plenty of room of possibility that she was genuine in her threats.

Possibility does not equal 'she was intent on trying it', so her intent was to try to murder? That's what you said that I took issue with. I feel like you're dancing with phrasing.

You can't say it's a kangeroo court unless the legitimate defenses have been thrown out for no reason. The problem is that no legitimate defense had been offered.

But both of those are a Kangaroo court, and we saw the judge deliberate gag any attempt at a defense (there did not seem to be prosecutors or the like in the court anyway).

Yelling "Your evidence is bad!" would have been just as baseless as "My parents are innocent!" However, "Your evidence is circumstantial. While you can prove X, Y and Z is involved, that does not necessarily prove my father did anything and in fact X over there said my father wasn't involved." THAT would have been an argument. But nothing of the sort is presented. Just her yelling the other person is wrong because they're wrong.

She was about to say exactly that when she said 'but' and was cut off. She was panicked, angry, and scared for her parents and she flat out sucks at responding well under pressure at this point. So yes, she did try to make that argument but was prevented from doing so, that's the entire point of her being cut off in that scene fyi.

And yes, I really do think Korra is just that dumb. Or if dumb is too not nice a word, then she has extraordinary poor reasoning skills. As I mentioned in my edits above, at no point, even once she gets her character development does she make anything resembling a good logical argument whenever she gets into a debate.

That's just not true even though the bar for insightful debate isn't very high in this show. Her stupidest argument was when she debated Kuvira that one time in front of Zaofu though... I mean holy crap writers... what are you smoking instead of fleshing out your dialogue?

Personal experience means she knows a fact, but she doesn't have the reasoning skills to prove it. If you asked her to prove a rock is a rock, a person skilled at reasoning might point to it's hardness, it's texture, etc. She'd just tell you it's a rock because it's a rock. Korra knows her parents are innocent, but when lousy evidence is thrown against them, she can't think of how it can possibly be invalid. That's what I meant. There's no contradiction there. Perhaps you should reread my previous posts and more clearly understand what I am saying more clearly, yeah? 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
I'm just holding you to your words. 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
 
Yeah that's a fair point, I remember thinking at the time 'uh are you going to kill him here or something?' then again characters in Avatar are absurdly durable, and if memory serves Zuko only got his scar from Ozai basically giving him and up close blast intentionally to do so. I don't think the part at the end (with the fire) would have been fatal considering that, but she was going too far in that scene.

I always got the idea that firebenders were more resistant to heat and flame than other benders.

I mean, they create and control fire. They'd have to be. Kind of like how waterbenders are totes fine wearing normal clothes in the goddamn arctic.

Tarrlok was not a firebender, however, and probably would have gotten murked right then and there.
 

Lethe82

Banned
I always got the idea that firebenders were more resistant to heat and flame than other benders.

I mean, they create and control fire. They'd have to be. Kind of like how waterbenders are totes fine wearing normal clothes in the goddamn arctic.

Tarrlok was not a firebender, however, and probably would have gotten murked right then and there.

I wonder if Bryke has a twitter... that seems like a reasonable explanation on your end. Granted I can't recall scenes where non water benders were dressed more fully than water benders. Maybe a good excuse for a rewatch!
 

Veelk

Banned
Completely different shows with completely different rules. Also incidentally that is the in universe explanation that Walter White gives.

Projecting our norms onto two fictitious universes is fun. I won't be drawn into a Breaking Bad debate even if you are attempting to use it as a flawed parallel. Principally but not limited to the fact that you are committing a fallacy in equating both Brock and the Judge as equals in so far as being innocents.

The judge was already obviously dirty, and the trial was a sham as you yourself admitted. Ergo the judge was complicit in something underhanded ergo not an innocent. Brock had no such ignoble qualifiers attached.

I reject the notion that being in a certain genre means you can't have a kind of characterization. I agree that they aren't ever going to let Korra murder someone, but that's not because that's not her character, that's because the writers just don't let that shit pass. If we had another main character who actually was a murderous psychopath, they'd also never kill anyone on a children's TV show, but that doesn't mean their character isn't murderous. They're just constantly inconvenienced from it by circumstance.

And you know I meant perceivably innocent. She had no reason to think the judge was corrupt. Perhaps stupid, but not corrupt.

Possibility does not equal 'she was intent on trying it', so her intent was to try to murder. You're dancing with semantics where it suits you and then back peddling where it suits you.

Again, if you go to a place where you say you are going to do something, planning on not to follow through with it, then follow through with it, then you can't say it wasn't premeditated. That'd be murder. It's how the term is defined. "I think I'm gonna murder him" -> murders him. If something else happened inbetween, that's usually not relevant.

Sorry but both of those are a Kangaroo court, and we saw the judge deliberate gag any attempt at a defense (there did not seem to be prosecutors or the like in the court anyway).

She was about to say exactly that when she said 'but' and was cut off. She was panicked, angry, and scared for her parents and she flat out sucks at responding well under pressure at this point. So yes, she did try to make that argument but was prevented from doing so, that's the entire point of her being cut off in that scene fyi.

What else have you got?

Just that you are literally making things up to try and prove your point. How do you know what she was going to say after "but"? And being interrupted is not the same thing as having a legitimate defense thrown out. The only thing we can say for sure is that a poor prosecution was presented, but no legitimate defense was. That's a very poorly run court, but not a kangeroo one.

Write fanfiction in your own time, not here.

No I'm just holding you to your words. 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
Which would mean something if you seemed to properly understand what those words conveyed instead of trying to trip me up over a contradiction that isn't there. And if we're going to have an emoji war, get your own instead of copying mine. ( ͡ಠ ʖ̯ ͡ಠ)
 
I wonder if Bryke has a twitter... that seems like a reasonable explanation on your end. Granted I can't recall scenes where non water benders were dressed more fully than water benders. Maybe a good excuse for a rewatch!

I dunno. Aang doesn't wear any winter clothing in the North Pole, but apparently airbenders can control their body temperature, so fuck if I know.

Also, in TLoK, Tonraq wakes up in his bed when the North Pole is being attacked by spirits wearing only pants (and I assume a nice pair of underoos). No shirt, shoes, socks, or additional clothing. Just pants.

With an open window. Like, they don't have a central heating system.
 

Veelk

Banned
I dunno. Aang doesn't wear any winter clothing in the North Pole, but apparently airbenders can control their body temperature, so fuck if I know.

Also, in TLoK, Tonraq wakes up in his bed when the North Pole is being attacked by spirits wearing only pants (and I assume a nice pair of underoos). No shirt, shoes, socks, or additional clothing. Just pants.

With an open window. Like, they don't have a central heating system.

Yeah, airbenders would need temperature regulation as much as waterbenders. It's fucking cold on elevated levels. I wonder if earth benders have some kind of temperature resistance too...
 

Lethe82

Banned
I reject the notion that being in a certain genre means you can't have a kind of characterization. I agree that they aren't ever going to let Korra murder someone, but that's not because that's not her character, that's because the writers just don't let that shit pass. If we had another main character who actually was a murderous psychopath, they'd also never kill anyone on a children's TV show, but that doesn't mean their character isn't murderous. They're just constantly inconvenienced from it by circumstance.

Arguably Korra has only once been inconvenienced by circumstance and that was at the beginning of the series. Nowhere else does even arguably attempt to kill someone, angry or not (aside from Vaatulok with spirit bending or whatnot). And my statement was not indicting the idea that a certain genre means you can't have certain kinds of characterization (to a point).

And you know I meant perceivable innocent. She had no reason to think the judge was corrupt. Perhaps stupid, but not corrupt.

Bullshit, we've been over this. All of the actions of the judge put him under suspicion. You don't deliberately shut down any defense and act completely out of character with how you are described without raising suspicion.

Judge behaves completely contrary to stated description

Deliberately suppresses any attempt at a defense

Jumps straight to death sentence

He was only stupid for making it so obvious.

Again, if you go to a place where you say you are going to do something, planning on not to follow through with it, then follow through with it, then you can't say it wasn't premeditated. That'd be murder. It's how the term is defined. "I think I'm gonna murder him" -> murders him. If something else happened in between, that's usually not relevant.

Which is absolutely irrelevant, doesn't address what I said, and is a poor defense. It doesn't address anything except how her actions would be perceived by the courts which is not an argument of what actually happened in the scene, or her intent in the scene. Try again Veelk and actually put some effort in this time.

Lethe82 said:
Possibility does not equal 'she was intent on trying it', so her intent was to try to murder? You're dancing with semantics where it suits you and then back peddling where it suits you.

You said that by all indications (from your reading) she was intent on trying to kill him. Your words.

But that doesn't change that her character, by all indication, seems to have been intent on trying it

Just that you are literally making things up to try and prove your point. How do you know what she was going to say after "but"? And being interrupted is not the same thing as having a legitimate defense thrown out. The only thing we can say for sure is that a poor prosecution was presented, but no legitimate defense was. That's a very poorly run court, but not a kangeroo one.

Write fanfiction in your own time, not here.

You'd have to be stupider than you think Korra is to not understand that she was about to make an argument directly along the reasoning that you presented. Let's review the scene and your statement.

While you can prove X, Y and Z is involved, that does not necessarily prove my father did anything and in fact X over there said my father wasn't involved." THAT would have been an argument. But nothing of the sort is presented. Just her yelling the other person is wrong because they're wrong.

Judge: According to Unalaaqs testimony, you attented a meeting where Verrick tried insight a civil war, is that true?

Korra: ...Yes

Judge: And were these men present at that meeting?

Korra: Well yes- but!

*Korra is cut off*

Go on and find a more likely response to that line of inquiry when Korra said 'but-', or more pointedly, explain how his interruption wasn't clearly communicating to the viewer that the judge was shutting down any attempt at a defense.

You know what he most likely response was? That her father just being there wasn't proof and how he tried to talk people down from action, if not that probably mentioning, I dunno, how the rebels themselves said he wasn't involved.

Trust me bud the only fanfiction here is the one being written in your head. There were no defense lawyers present or prosecutors, it was just the judge. We're clearly meant to see that the trial was quick, unfair, and a sham.

Or are you just going to hide behind the convenient obstrufication of 'well I don't know because she never said it'.

Which would mean something if you seemed to properly understand what those words conveyed instead of trying to trip me up over a contradiction that isn't there. And if we're going to have an emoji war, get your own instead of copying mine. ( ͡ಠ ʖ̯ ͡ಠ)

I don't think your reading comprehension is as high as you think it is. I didn't want the argument to get argumentative, but the whole accusing me of bad reading comp/fanfiction etc... I dunno man.
 

Vylash

Member
this thread just got real


1340645570325.gif
 

Veelk

Banned
Yeah, okay buddy, this conversation is over. It's now clear what this is, and as much time I can spend discussing this series for hundreds of reasons to many different people of various opinions, I've learned to recognize whose existence is not worth acknowledging.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Have a good night Veelk, don't take things too personally this is the internet. :)

EDIT: And if you feel I went too far, sorry! I felt like I was responding off of what was being layed down. No harm intended, hope you have a good sleep.

I know it's something I joke about, a lot actually, but I would like to think Kuvira cared for the guy, but the way they portrayed the whole thing makes it hard to figure out how much though. You can tell Bataar received a lot of guidance and inner strength through his relationship with Kuvira, because he changed a lot through it. He went from some lanky dweeb looking guy to a more muscular person with enough confidence to stand up to his mother and take what he learned from is father and expand upon it.

Kuvira just remained herself it seemed like. She had a strong sense of self that you're really not growing to trample. You would think she could've taken anybody and the outcome would've just stayed the same, only difference being that the Beifong family wouldn't hate her because she took away a member of their family. I don't think Kuvira brain washed Bataar, she just allowed him to actually be himself without Su's will stifling him. I've stated a few times that he most likely grew mentally throughout his journey with her and it explains his devoted attachment to her. It's sort of like, "I saw the world with this woman and she allowed me to grow into my own person. If I stayed here with you Mom, I'd still be the same naive person that would change nothing."

Bataar is probably the person that she spoke to the most while they lived in Zaofu, only thing is they never showed her speaking to anybody. If they wrote the seasons pretty close to each other then they really should have given these two at least one scene with each other just talking about stuff so their relationship would've been grounded more and less like a "from left field" randomness. The way it was for most of the season sort of just seems like a "fuck you" to Su. For all we know Bataar was the only person that actually paid any kind of attention to her. She had respect as the captain of the Metal Guard and she did get a lot of recognition from her accomplishments, but Su never congratulated her for anything and when she wanted to help her in the final battle she received a "heel" command from Su. Man her back story just has too much damn potential. I honestly think it would make for more interesting viewing than what we got. After the Battle for Zaofu we really should've gotten more about her.

These are all good points yeah, I just think that she had to have at least cared about him. I mean making her out to be like Su? Let's not say things we can't take back :p
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm not engaging with you because I avoid doing so with the inflammatory and the willfully ignorant. And I've been in enough Internet debates to see when it's going to end with a big mess of wasted walls of text, nothing learned, and possibly a ban. We don't seem to agree what constitutes as actual evidence and you're rhetoric comes off as too smug to allow you to doubt yourself. And I'm sure you'll disagree with me on that front. Anyone here will tell you I can go on for PAGES carrying an argument if I think the opponent is genuine in their intentions. But this? No, I don't feel you are.
 

Lethe82

Banned
I'm not engaging with you because I avoid doing so with the inflammatory and the willfully ignorant. And I've been in enough Internet debates to see when it's going to end with a big mess of wasted walls of text, nothing learned, and possibly a ban. We don't seem to agree what constitutes as actual evidence and you're rhetoric comes off as too smug to allow you to doubt yourself. And I'm sure you'll disagree with me on that front. Anyone here will tell you I can go on for PAGES carrying an argument if I think the opponent is genuine in their intentions. But this? No, I don't feel you are.

Wasn't there a debate pages back where people talked about what a jerk you come across as in debates and you talked about how that isn't your intent? You might not think that I'm genuine in the same way that other people think you come across poorly at times in debates. I won't deny that my last post kicked it up a notch (and sorry for that), but I assure you, I am genuine, if frustrated.

Anyway

Awesomely edited Asami video
 

Veelk

Banned
Jerk? No, far as I know of, no one called me a jerk or anything. They just said I was tiring and maybe came off as aggressive. I get the vibe that everyone finds my super long threads more exhausting than offensive, but I wanted to make sure, so I preemptively apologized just in case. But that's up to them to verify. All I know is that for all I post, however aggressive it is, I never ever attack the person. Only the argument. Doing the former is just a deceptive tactic to try an anger your opponent into replying back with ad hominems, at which point the debate loses its original point and just becomes about 'beating' the other guy. I ended it because I saw where you were taking it.
 

Lethe82

Banned
I'm not going to do a post debate breakdown where we go on to argue about if it was jerk or aggressive or whatever (I honestly can't remember the term), I am more than will to stop all personal references if you are willing to do the same (from my perspective you opened that door). If not we can just agree to disagree and move on, I don't have anything against you. I think my last post was fairly succinct and an easy place to continue, insults not withstanding.
 

Veelk

Banned
As far as the original debate goes, I never started. And it has nothing to do with personal beef. I know you have nothing against me personally. It's just basic posting courtesy and etiquette. It's politeness and respect. There is no point to having debates without it. But in any case, yes, it is late and I'm long overdue for sleep.
 
Have a good night Veelk, don't take things too personally this is the internet. :)

EDIT: And if you feel I went too far, sorry! I felt like I was responding off of what was being layed down. No harm intended, hope you have a good sleep.



These are all good points yeah, I just think that she had to have at least cared about him. I mean making her out to be like Su? Let's not say things we can't take back :p
I think she felt something for Bataar, she just thought her goal of uniting the entire fucking earth kingdom, and killing the Avatar was more important than Bataar. Bataar did stop being a meek person with Kuvira so I would think being with her did instigate a change in his personality. The guy saw a lot of things with her that he would've never witnessed if he stayed in Zaofu with Su. To be honest she was keeping him from having the same sort of journey that Toph allowed her to have. In fact that's Su in a nutshell. She's kind of like Toph's parents, she just wants to shelter her kids only letting them be exposed to what she allows, she's very controlling. I admit you can't let a kid of 100% or the wind up like teenage Su, but you can't stifle them forever, there's no balance with her.

I'm not the only person that sees a lot of elements of Su in Kuvira:
"Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé,"
And there's this here:
Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé," by same Anon
I know Kuvira had everybody judging her as a villain, but she's not dumb per se and was in the right at times. I just can't see Su as in the right because she's really irrational amongst other things.
 

Kinvara

Member
People seriously thought Korra was going to kill the judge?

Just because Korra is more aggressive than Aang, it doesn't mean she goes around murdering people.

/justmy2cents
 
Who cares about what actually happened in season 2? What's more interesting in discussing what should have happened.

Tarrlok is a nice guy, but a crap leader. Unaloq is a mean guy, but a good leader.

Smart writing would've forced Korra, regardless of her bias towards her father, to negotiate peace between the two. Forcing her to work with someone who was underhanded, but had the best interests of the tribe at heart, would've been heaps more interesting than "LOLDARKAVATAR."

Unaloq, instead of doing a full-on batshit crazy turn into loopyville, could've then prepared Korra to reopen the gate to the spirit world and trained her to restrain Vaatu. When all is said and done, she could say to her uncle "Call off your troops, unite the tribes and allow my father to be your equal partner in leadership, or I'll expose all of your crimes to the people." Semi-reasonable Unaloq from the start of the season would've probably gone along with that.
 

Jacob

Member
People seriously thought Korra was going to kill the judge?

Just because Korra is more aggressive than Aang, it doesn't mean she goes around murdering people.

/justmy2cents

I dunno, she publicly threatened to kill him in the courtroom (which was pretty lolworthy that there were no consequences from the judge or bailiff for that) and then hunted him down and threatened him with her polar bear dog. I think she would have done it if he hadn't blabbed. Korra in S2 had really little regard for even her friends' feelings and property, much less a stranger who she (not entirely unreasonably) classified as an enemy.
 
For now. I saw all that after I woke up and was stunned. Sometimes I feel this is how Veelk handles his debates. He makes sense, but god damn at the destruction.
78a.gif

I was peeking through this thread early this morning when the carnage started getting out of hand (not by choice, Sleepy kinda woke me up by tweeting me early in the morning, I gotta remind her I live in the other side of the world)

I went back to sleep hoping that was the gist of it, then I woke back up to see pure Armageddon .
 

Lethe82

Banned
Fuck that shit, I'm was right. If Veelk wants to continue by all means. XD

I dunno, she publicly threatened to kill him in the courtroom (which was pretty lolworthy that there were no consequences from the judge or bailiff for that) and then hunted him down and threatened him with her polar bear dog. I think she would have done it if he hadn't blabbed. Korra in S2 had really little regard for even her friends' feelings and property, much less a stranger who she (not entirely unreasonably) classified as an enemy.

Well she threatened to kill him in the moment if he put her father and everyone there to death, but he didn't. Even Season 2 Korra doesn't strike me as the 'I'm going to make you afraid with my PolarBear dog and then murder you in cold blood', that and her opening line is pretty straight forward intimidation tactics that you see in movies and other media when people are playing hard to get information.

I think she felt something for Bataar, she just thought her goal of uniting the entire fucking earth kingdom, and killing the Avatar was more important than Bataar. Bataar did stop being a meek person with Kuvira so I would think being with her did instigate a change in his personality. The guy saw a lot of things with her that he would've never witnessed if he stayed in Zaofu with Su. To be honest she was keeping him from having the same sort of journey that Toph allowed her to have. In fact that's Su in a nutshell. She's kind of like Toph's parents, she just wants to shelter her kids only letting them be exposed to what she allows, she's very controlling. I admit you can't let a kid of 100% or the wind up like teenage Su, but you can't stifle them forever, there's no balance with her.

Absolutely, hence why she lasered him when it meant that she might kill Team every good character in the series.

And that is an awesome analysis of Su. She seemed to only want to keep and value family members around as semi static extensions of her own ideal surroundings.

I'm not the only person that sees a lot of elements of Su in Kuvira:
"Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé,"
And there's this here:
Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé," by same Anon
I know Kuvira had everybody judging her as a villain, but she's not dumb per se and was in the right at times. I just can't see Su as in the right because she's really irrational amongst other things.

Will read. Su is the secret villain of book 4 anyway.
 

Kinvara

Member
I dunno, she publicly threatened to kill him in the courtroom (which was pretty lolworthy that there were no consequences from the judge or bailiff for that) and then hunted him down and threatened him with her polar bear dog. I think she would have done it if he hadn't blabbed. Korra in S2 had really little regard for even her friends' feelings and property, much less a stranger who she (not entirely unreasonably) classified as an enemy.

The judge just sentenced her father to be executed. She flipped out and said something outrageous which is what Book 2 Korra does.

But she immediately calmed down after Unalaq got the judge to lessen the sentence.
 
Fuck that shit, I'm was right! XD



Well she threatened to kill him in the moment if he put her father and everyone there to death, but he didn't. Even Season 2 Korra doesn't strike me as the 'I'm going to make you afraid with my PolarBear dog and then murder you in cold blood', that and her opening line is pretty straight forward intimidation tactics that you see in movies and other media when people are playing hard to get information.



Absolutely, hence why she lasered him when it meant that she might kill Team every good character in the series.

And that is an awesome analysis of Su. She seemed to only want to keep and value family members around as semi static extensions of her own ideal surroundings.



Will read. Su is the secret villain of book 4 anyway.
She really is the secret villain of book 4 and she's painted as the "good" character. Her inaction sets off book 4 to begin with. If she actually offered to help in some fashion that would've prevented Kuvira from going off to begin with. Kuvira should've just Godzilla'd her way through her former hometown just to prove a point. Regarding the Water tribe judge. Dude would've benefited from a Kuvira seminar on how to tell when your interrogator is bluffing.
 

Lethe82

Banned
She really is the secret villain of book 4 and she's painted as the "good" character. Her inaction sets off book 4 to begin with. If she actually offered to help in some fashion that would've prevented Kuvira from going off to begin with. Kuvira should've just Godzilla'd her way through her former hometown just to prove a point. Regarding the Water tribe judge. Dude would've benefited from a Kuvira seminar on how to tell when your interrogator is bluffing.

The Su hate rodeo in one tangent I can never actually tired of revisiting. I mean, damn, it's like a never ending fountain of Dark Side. Palpatine is in the corner squawking about letting the hate flow through me, and let me tell you it feels great.

Season 4 really needed two scenes with Korra putting Su in her place, or heck anyone. I wonder if Bryke and co have ever commented on the fan reaction as of yet.

LoK Rant: WHAT IS EVERYONE’S PROBLEM WITH KUVIRA?!

[LoK B4] Anyone else frustrated with Su after hearing about Kuvira's backstory?

What the actual fuck?


"We can't have Zaofu dominance over the Earth Kingdom!"

How about you send out your army to try and stabilize the Earth Kingdom, get people food, save their lives from bandits, and then withdraw after the Earth Kindgoms army proper is able to administer local authority. Aiding in stabilizing the nation and making a smooth transition possible. You didn't seem to have any issues with Prince Wu taking control, so why do your best to let innocent people die and suffer while you have the means to help? Are you worried that you're secretly a terrible person and would end up worse than Kuvira or something?

I actually like Kuvira a lot as a villain and character the on;ly place where I draw the line is when she's stepping on the toes of Korrasami. ;)

She's hot yes, but god damn. No wonder why people think there's some sexual tension between Su and Kuvira. Su goes flying off the handle whenever Kuvira becomes an issue. It's like she's a jilted ex lover.

Well Su is a pretty free spirit, maybe if she was 20 years younger but I can't see her robbing her own cradle.

...

...That's sounds horrible.

EDIT:

I'm not the only person that sees a lot of elements of Su in Kuvira:
"Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé,"
And there's this here:
Kuvira: Su’s ‘Complicated’ Protégé," by same Anon
I know Kuvira had everybody judging her as a villain, but she's not dumb per se and was in the right at times. I just can't see Su as in the right because she's really irrational amongst other things.

Oh sweet this is from the same person who did

"A Portrait of Asami’s Devotion: anon meta analysis of Korrasami"
http://lokgifsandmusings.tumblr.com...ortrait-of-asamis-devotion-anon-meta-analysis

Looking forward to the read. :)
 
The Su hate rodeo in one tangent I can never actually tire of revisiting. I mean, damn, it's like a never ending fountain of Dark Side. Palpatine is in the corner squawking about letting the hate flow through me, and let me tell you it feels great.

Season 4 really needed two scenes with Korra putting Su in her place, or heck anyone. I wonder if Bryke and co have ever commented on the fan reaction as of yet.

LoK Rant: WHAT IS EVERYONE’S PROBLEM WITH KUVIRA?!

[LoK B4] Anyone else frustrated with Su after hearing about Kuvira's backstory?

What the actual fuck?


"We can't have Zaofu dominance over the Earth Kingdom!"

How about you send out your army to try and stabilize the Earth Kingdom, get people food, save their lives from bandits, and then withdraw after the Earth Kindgoms army proper is able to administer local authority. Aiding in stabilizing the nation and making a smooth transition possible. You didn't seem to have any issues with Prince Wu taking control, so why do your best to let innocent people die and suffer while you have the means to help? Are you worried that you're secretly a terrible person and would end up worse than Kuvira or something?

I actually like Kuvira a lot as a villain and character the on;ly place where I draw the line is when she's stepping on the toes of Korrasami. ;)



Well Su is a pretty free spirit, maybe if she was 20 years younger but I can't see her robbing her own cradle.

...

...That's sounds horrible.

EDIT:



Oh sweet this is from the same person who did

"A Portrait of Asami’s Devotion: anon meta analysis of Korrasami"
http://lokgifsandmusings.tumblr.com...ortrait-of-asamis-devotion-anon-meta-analysis

Looking forward to the read. :)
And some people on here wonder why I have a huge problem saying that Su was right in how she handles any situation. Going by teenage Su, Su probably hasn't been in the right since she came out the womb. She probably wouldn't have even helped out in season 3 unless Opal was one of the captives. She treats Kuvira like garbage whenever they're on screen and doesn't even try to see her side to anything. She at least allowed Opal to talk to her and convince her to allow Opal to train at Air Temple Island. Su just shuts Kuvira down like she was a five year old. She should've just given Kuvira to Lin if she was just going to treat Kuvira like a second class citizen. Kuvira would've flourished as a cop for Lin.
 

Jacob

Member
I'm not really one to talk since I've written posts defending and/or stanning for pre-reveal Amon, but at least he had the (questionable) excuse that violence was necessary because he was going up against an entrenched bending-chauvinist establishment. Kuvira had the most powerful force in the Earth Kingdom nearly from the beginning of her campaign to unite it, but she still felt compelled to open concentration camps and persecute foreign nationals. In addition to launching a war of aggression against Republic City over a decades-old sovereignty dispute and against the will of its current inhabitants. These actions make sense from a certain political perspective, but they're a lot harder to portray as sympathetic than the Equalists were, I think.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom