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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
- Thread starter Toa TAK
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JadedWriter
Member
They get paid with the honor of working for Kuvira. Probably get goose stepped on out of compensation.
I saw that this morning. I want a shirt with KUVIRA on it!
FeenixRising
Banned
If that's the case I'm surprised Toa isn't first in line with a job application
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm gonna snag it. My only peeve right now is that sleeve size on a 3XL is 10", but the sleeve size on a 4XL is 9". Otherwise the 4XL would literally be just perfect.
It's bothersome, being me. Only when it comes to clothing, though.
It never existed
Are you kidding?
I wish the music from books 2, 3, and 4 had official releases.
FeenixRising
Banned
The Book 1 soundtrack did so well on Amazon, too. I think it was a top seller for awhile. But at least Jeremy Zuckerman put some tracks up on his Soundcloud account.
We all do. But we still have to hold out. We have to have faith.
Just because Bryke can't tell a coherent story, doesn't mean that Jeremy Zuckerman's potential to release a score should suffer.
m_shortpants
Member
This thread only has a couple of topics that get repeated every now and then in irregular cycles
Release soundtracks Nick pls
Bryke suck
Character development sucked
Squandered potential
Tears
Kuvira sucks
Z Team is awesome
Amon is the best villian ever
Mako and L's
Su sucks
Everything sucks
Haha, clever post there.
JadedWriter
Member
Come one, come all, watch Toa get tap danced on like a hardwood floor. First 15 get a free ticket.
Kuvira doesn't suck, though.
FeenixRising
Banned
m_shortpants
Member
Season 2 is better than season 4.
Come at me.
Come at me.
I liked seeing Aang again
BKatastrophe
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
Better at having forgettable villains
JadedWriter
Member
Dat giraffe neck.
m_shortpants
Member
Eh. Kuvira was really disappointing. They kept suggesting there would be more to her character than metal Hitler, and then they had a 2 second exposition in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.
Unalaq had the same problem, but at least they didn't even attempt to have him justify his actions, he was just evil. That's better than the quarter assed attempt with Kuvira in my books.
BKatastrophe
Member
That really an argument you want to get in to?
Really?
Kuvira vs. Unalaq: Who is more forgetful?
Megalomanical dictator, or megalomaniacal crazy guy? What a competition.
FeenixRising
Banned
That's where you and I are just going to have to disagree. At least Kuvira tried to justify her actions... Unalaq just screamed typical 80s flick villian. Oh... I'm just going to destroy the world cuz lulz
If you want to go there, all the villains outside Amon weren't all that great. Amon himself was pretty "meh" but everyone likes to fanboy him because he came in last at the race to the bottom.
Yes. I said it.
m_shortpants
Member
Well, I'm just saying both Unalaq and Kuvira are shitty villians, that's all. And in my opinion the half passed attempt to show her motivations fell flat. Unalaq is more or less the same, but I think the spirit / vaatu premise was at least more interesting than Metal Hitler and goofy looking robot.
JadedWriter
Member
Kuvira at the very least was interesting enough to inspire people to fill in her back story. Nobody gives two fucks for Unalaq. He was a simple dick that wanted a hentai spirit inside of him, that's all.
Maybe later. I got to go study right now.
The BB/BCS fanbase I always found wierdly dichonomous. There are a lot of good posts in it, but most people seem to fall on one side of a character or another. X is an asshole says one, no X is completely justified says another. The best thing about Gilligan's writing is his ability to combine two polar opposite aspects into an inseperable blend within a character, and most analysis of characters favor one aspect while, if not ignoring, then kind of abstracting or generalizing the other too much.
For example,
I call Chuck a dickhole for what he did, and he is, but I can also sympathize with that he probably had conflicted feelings regarding it. He doesn't hate his brother, he just doesn't believe in him, and that probably tears him up inside almost as much as it did Jimmy.
Icyflamez96
Member
Season 1 and 2 have the best soundtrack. I got so tired of the Red Lotus theme after a while.
SilentMatthew
Member
Unalaq is such a oddity among Korra's villains. It is very easy to spin the wheels of propaganda for the causes of Korra's other antagonists. They were providing answers for problems of the common people. Where the systems which they live in failed to provide one. And they, as products of these systems, knew first-hand their failures and flaws. As such, what right does the Avatar have to intervene on behalf of the ones that control the system and provide "stability" in all but names alone? Her concerns are not align with concerns of the majority, only with the powerful, the ones that have a voice. Unalaq is very hard to spin in that direction. A propagandist's nightmare if there was one.
FeenixRising
Banned
Welp.... the imagery going on in my head now.
JadedWriter
Member
Unalaq is water tribe Ozai. Most Korra villains were just simple every day people that lived like most normal people and suffered. Unalaq was a rich kid with a spirit fetish that fucked over his brother. Even the Red Lotus couldn't give him meaning.
Ozai is worthy of more commentary than Unalaq.. He's actually worse, if we're talking propoganda, since he is very open about how he doesn't care about the fire nation and only uses it to wield power, while Unalaq wanted to actually benefit the world by restoring spirituality to it. But the difference is that Ozai is actually well written in his sociopathic tendencies while Unalaq is just dumb and nonsensical. We had 4 seasons of the show and I am still not sure what they mean when they say "Spirituality", so his motives will never be truly communicable. Ozai's are and are set in a context that gives interesting political commentary and character drama.
As far as Unalaq goes, I think it just comes back to the core problem of LoK: Korra never engages the villain, or engages very poorly, when the battlefield isn't a physical one, which makes for poor drama. Unalaq is particularly bad because, as stated above, no one even knows what 'problem' he was trying to fix that spirituality would solve. Fighting for equal treatment, rebelling against fascism, and inducing order to a chaotic state are believable campaigns. "The world is not spiritual anymore which makes spirits go batshit crazy so I am going to spiritualize the shit out of it" doesn't work when we don't know what it means to be spiritual. It would if they detailed it like TLA did, but they didn't.
JadedWriter
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
They were talking about it in BCT, but I don't own a Wii U so I really couldn't care. But what about that is making people melt down?
It has a bit of everything.
-People complaining about the art-style and fan service and writing it off.
-People complaining about those who right it off.
-People talking about its too anime
-People complaining about the complainers saying that those who complain are saying Nintendo is doomed.
-People lumping those who are cautious/wait and see about the whole thing in with the people who write it off.
I mean I was just talking about how I don't like the art-style and the fan service but I was still interested in it. And people were saying I shouldn't write it off, make judgement and just because I like the Persona series I should have no problem with the fan service (I don't like the fan service in Persona and I found it more gratuitous here).
And during it one guy brought up three anime that he thought saved the industry, I made a comment about how I found it faulty (I don't like the ones he brought up). And people were acting like I wrote off the entire genre, I should have been a bit more clear with my comment.
BKatastrophe
Member
Man, Unalaq doesn't even want to help the world by restoring spirituality. He just wants the power he gets from Vaatu. That's pretty much it. People always say Unalaq is a confusing villain, because his means and the end clash with his motives. Because he talks about how Wan was "evil" because he sealed Vaatu away. That it wasn't true balance, which leads people to believe he's trying to restore the spirits. The problem is that the shit he does is so scummy and unbelievably shitty, that it's hard to believe.
Now, a way you could interpret that is that he believed that spirits were superior to humans, and wanted to rule over the humans. Essentially doing the complete reverse of the current state of the world. However, he does this by completely twisting spirits to his end, disregarding them as equal beings.
It's baffling, right? None of it seems to make sense, right? He tries to pass himself off as attempting to "restore order" in the world, but just ends up bringing more chaos. He uses spirits and people as means to an end, and disregards everything around him. It all just clashes. Now, you could argue that he's just plain crazy. It makes sense, and not necessarily an incorrect interpretation at all. My interpretation, however?
He's just a megalomaniac. From day one, all he wanted was power, and when that power wasn't enough (becoming the ruler of the Water Tribes), he sought out more. The Dark Avatar was his ultimate endgame because it's the ultimate power. Fusing yourself with one of the greatest spirits in the known world? Having power equal to the Avatar? Why not! Everything he says about trying to be righteous and restoring order? A lie. Blatant lies. All he wants his power, and everything he does is to achieve that end. The spirits weren't going crazy, he was manipulating them, because he's a huge asshole. Makes way more sense this way, in my opinion. Granted, it doesn't make him any more compelling, but it removes the complaint people have of him being confusing and not making sense.
Now, a way you could interpret that is that he believed that spirits were superior to humans, and wanted to rule over the humans. Essentially doing the complete reverse of the current state of the world. However, he does this by completely twisting spirits to his end, disregarding them as equal beings.
It's baffling, right? None of it seems to make sense, right? He tries to pass himself off as attempting to "restore order" in the world, but just ends up bringing more chaos. He uses spirits and people as means to an end, and disregards everything around him. It all just clashes. Now, you could argue that he's just plain crazy. It makes sense, and not necessarily an incorrect interpretation at all. My interpretation, however?
He's just a megalomaniac. From day one, all he wanted was power, and when that power wasn't enough (becoming the ruler of the Water Tribes), he sought out more. The Dark Avatar was his ultimate endgame because it's the ultimate power. Fusing yourself with one of the greatest spirits in the known world? Having power equal to the Avatar? Why not! Everything he says about trying to be righteous and restoring order? A lie. Blatant lies. All he wants his power, and everything he does is to achieve that end. The spirits weren't going crazy, he was manipulating them, because he's a huge asshole. Makes way more sense this way, in my opinion. Granted, it doesn't make him any more compelling, but it removes the complaint people have of him being confusing and not making sense.
BKatastrophe
Member
Book 2 had some super sick waterbending. Love that.
Yeah, even with Viz the bending in season 2 still looked great along with alot of other things.
People though....
This isn't how the show framed it. When Toph tried to teach Korra a lesson, she included Unalaq in her group of how all 4 villains in the show wanted to enforce ideals that were good, but corrupted through them. Amon's equality, Zaheer's freedom, and Kuvira's order are supposed to be analogous to Unalaq's spirituality.
He obviously was power hungry, but if that's the case, fusing with Vaatu makes little sense. Vaatu wants to destroy everything. Power is defined by the relation of one thing to another. If everything is destroyed, Unalaq has no one to be more powerful than. He would be a singularity, simultaneously the most powerful and least powerful being in the universe because he would be the ONLY being. His desire to fuse with Vaatu only makes sense if he genuinely believed it would bring 'spirituality' and improve the world, like Zaheer thought chaos would.
He also talks about the nobility of it all to the very end, so if he's lying about that, he's also lying to himself...which is perfectly possible, I suppose, but it's bizarre and doesn't seem to be what the show supports. Your argument seems to be that 'he was just a sociopath', another way of saying he was 'just evil'. Problem is that sociopaths, while power hungry and self interested, are also generally rational. Hyper rational, in fact. I could go on for quite a bit of how Ozai was a fully realized person while also being a sociopath by talking about how he was a product of imperialistic environment, or how he raised his kids or how he conducted his government. He was a monster, but he was well written because he wasn't JUST a monster. With Unalaq...what can you say about him if you just reduce him to this prick that wants to fuck the world over to the extent that he would even destroy himself because "powar!" The characterization of him being an asshole is insufficient. He also needs to be....really stupid.
BKatastrophe
Member
All Toph said was that Unalaq brought back the spirits. I don't remember her saying he wanted to. Even then, saying he wanted to makes complete sense, since he had to open the portals to do so. I mean, his ultimate goal required him to open the portals and thus allow spirits into the world, and in fact him bringing them back doesn't matter anyway, because it was ultimately Korra's decision to leave the portals open.
Vaatu never seemed to want to destroy everything, but he just didn't give a fuck. He wanted everything to go nuts and he definitely didn't like humans. I always took it has him taking over Unalaq, and then getting rid of humans.
Unalaq wants that power, and he ultimately doesn't care about the cost of it. He just wants it. Like someone who wants all the candy, but doesn't realize that if they eat all of it, they're gonna get diabetes. Or bank robbers, who don't care who gets hurt as long as they get the money. There are plenty of examples that are similar.
Like I said, it doesn't make Unalaq any more compelling, but I never realized that it could be interpreted any other way. I never thought he was compelling or fully-realized, and I'm not going to argue that point. It's a completely uphill battle for me, and I'm not going to fight it.
The bank robber analogy is slightly off. It's more like he's so focused on getting money, he doesn't think about how that he's never going to spend it since he has no way to launder it. Getting it is what solely occupies his mind.
In that sense, I'm saying it makes Unalaq's character not just uncompelling, but....stupid. Vaatu wants to bring about pure destruction of others, but what does that gain Unalaq? He places himself under the power of a spirit and, from the wiki, brings about '10,000 years of darkness', though I don't think Vaatu would stop at year 10001. What else would the spirit of destruction want besides complete and utter destruction? What kind of power does that gain Unalaq? Senseless destruction and suffering of others is not what power is about, it's about dominance and control. Destruction is just one way to fulfill that, but then he's got other issues, like what the hell is he going to do in a destroyed world.
And not even the most impulsive and violent of sociopaths want to destroy everything in their sight, and the most impulsive sociopaths can't really maintain a political career for this long. Power is about dominance, and they need something that is not themselves to dominate. Saying 'he's just evil, he wants power and doesn't care about ANYTHING else' doesn't mean his character makes any more sense unless you also include that he is extraordinarily stupid.
Edit: Toph phrasing that sentence that particular way doesn't negate that she was talking about what I described. "They took their ideologies too far" she says right after, implying that unalaq bringing back the spirits was part of his ideology.
m_shortpants
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
uhh.... you started it
BKatastrophe
Member
Just real quick, something that needs to be cleared up: Is Vaatu stated to be the "spirit of destruction"? I always recall it being chaos as his big push.
And Unalaq bringing back the spirits was a required goal of his, and so in a way it's part of his ideals. If his ideal is "power" and assumed to be nothing more.
Toph's speech always bothered me. Like, how the fuck does she know what Unalaq's up to? He's in the poles, and her vines don't reach that far. I can understand Zaheer and Amon, but Unalaq? Always bugged me.
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