Icyflamez96
Member
Yeah but he's one of the more stand out cases to me
The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
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Yeah but he's one of the more stand out cases to me
I know, but that doesn't stop it from being a legitimate complaint. At this point, I think I just refer to my fanfiction version of LoK for a proper sequel to TLA, if I pretend one exists at all.
FeenixRising
Banned
Yea we did. We found out about the story between him and his brother, and how he got Tonraq exiled to the South. He had a pretty clear motive, no matter how stupid sounding it was. "I must release Vaatu to blah blah blah KAIJU BATTLE!!"
I mean, it's much more than we got for Team Z. Just a group of powerful benders that want to kill the Avatar. No back story on how they got together or what exactly drove them to come to the conclusion that the Avatar cycle must stop, just some shit said in passing about Zaheer rescuing P'Li from some war lord and their past attempt to take Korra.
Kuvira falls in this too. "Hey look at me, I hate my mommy, taking over the Earth Kingdom, and turning into Sams Club brand Hitler with a beauty mark and hair."
No, I would catergorize that more as a goal rather than a motive. A goal is what you want to achieve, a motive is why you want to achieve it, and we didn't get anything except "Because it's spiritual, guiz" which is a meaningless term in LoK, so it's no motive at all.
Similarly, the background of the Z team is not motivation of the Z team. Background might inform the audience how they came to form that motivation, but it's not necessary for them to have motivation, which is made explicit: They believe that the world will be better off in a chaotic society where freedom is abundance, because they think Kingdoms and stuff suck because of corrupt rulers.
As for Kuvira, her motive is muddy, like you said.
His purpose was to build things for Kuvira, a random Scientist could have done that. Or have Verick build the blueprints and have Kuvira take them when he was planning on destroying them.
Also, just because something happens like that in real life doesn't make it interesting or compelling for a character to legit whine about it most of the time. I don't care about Baatar's problems because he constantly show that his problem is what defined him.
That and him having no gripes with his fiancee killing/locking up his family.
I there was a dynamic between him her and his family, and random scientist couldn't have done that.
" what did you think was going to happen " is the terminology you used, i'm explaining to you , that its not simply as black and white as you think it is. It happens, it effects people and " they should have expected this " isn't a way to brush off peoples problems. Is my argument.
How you personally treat people with issues, and whether you find it compelling or not is your business.
yeah that was silly
The thing is, this is fiction, and I doubt the writers were going for realism when Baatar Jr randomly laughs like an evil person. It would be different if he was a real person, but Baatar has shown nothing that he deserves better than being laughed at for falling in love with a woman that only hesitated for a few seconds before firing a giant lazor at him.
Even more when he himself had no gripe at firing said lazor at his mom and other family members. That combined with a really flimsy excuse of him living in his dad shadow, which by the looks of it he didn't once try to actually talk about with his family.
People do take things differently and depending on the situation should be treated with care. Baatar Jr situation is not one of them. He is the very definition of someone who needs to get over it. We all had circumstances that we thought were horrible or big, but in retrospects are rather small or we should be focusing on more important things.
What I think 360pages is talking about is that the conflict needs more depth to it. It truly doesn't matter if it's 'realistic' or not if it's not deep enough to matter. A mundane conflict can be made exciting through powerful narrative. An epic one can be boring through a weak narrative.
I not even going to begin to go into that.
I'm going to let that sit.
I like enjoying fiction.
To the bolded, it actually seemed like this was talked about and the kuvera business withe their parents, just off screen. Maybe its just me but it was strongly alluded to kuvera and batar jr had beef with his parents for a while, and there was a whole host of shit said that didn't need to be shown, because isn't that important.
He was willing to build a death bot, and lock up his family.
He's far past the point of getting over it, he needs psychological help. Things are more complicated than just getting over stuff, I know its strange, but people don't just magically get over shit.
It might have been like every villain motivation in that show.
Except his excuse was that his dad was so good at things that he felt he was in the his shadow. You know, compared to Amon's abuse from his father. Or Zaheer's apparently living though a lot of horrible things to reach the conclusion he did.
You can't compare suffering in real life. But this is fiction and I'm going to compare that shit.
I'm not sure what your getting at here. THat because it's frivolous it can't happen? There are teenagers that have killed themselves because their parents won't let them play xbox or whatever. A lot of tragedy is motivated by ultimately petty shit.
Petty shit doesn't make a person shallow, as every person in real life is deep and complex (or nearly so). With fiction, you could have kept all the same actions and motives that Bataar Jr. has, but simply going into them more would have given the character more depth.
Well, this goes back into fiction being far different than real life. Because it wasn't explore, we the viewer only get the first impression. Which is that he did it for really petty reasons, and was willing to hurt everyone but himself and his Fiancee to get it done.
That isn't someone that warrants sympathy.
I disagree, i am sympathetic to whatever psychological disposition that allowed for him to be the way he was. Its sad, that it happened.
Edit: also what Veelk said.
It isn't about sympathy, it's about empathy. Learning what makes people tick or capturing the humanity onto a page is what makes fiction worth reading. I'm not saying that he would have been necessarily sympathetic, but having empathy means that you understand, not just intellectually but emotionally, what would push someone to do something, and fiction allows for these kinds of explorations. He'd still be just as in the wrong as he is now, but you'd understand him better as a person, which can be a scary thing for people. It's about having to open yourself up emotionally to people that are pretty horrible. Terrible in real life, but great in fiction.
BKatastrophe
Member
It could be. You aren't wrong, but that one scene in Book 3, with Bataar and Jr. running through the hall, and Jr. is struggling to carry all of his papers and dropping them all over the place. Bataar not carrying a damn thing, Jr. basically playing assistant. It's quite a big read, but it's a read a lot of people made. That that single moment is our sole window into whatever relationship he with his dad. And even then, you're right in saying there's essentially nothing to glean from it.
He always seemed like he disliked Su far more than Bataar, and that was most likely because of what she did to Kuvira as opposed to anything she did to him. Saying he hated his dad is a reach, because, as it's been pointed out, we don't know the relationship beyond "Bataar designs shit, Jr. builds it." There's nothing there.
JadedWriter
Member
Can't belielve this thread is going to war over Bataar Jr.
So Gorilla Grodd just turned everybody into gorilla's. Apparently Grodd's plans weren't grand enough for Lex so he shot him.
JLU Patriot Act:
Eiling is seriously going to resurrect an old project called "Captain Nazi?" Eiling went all T Virus monster. Lol apparently Speedy has always had the side kick issues judging by his brief cameo in this episode. I always thought it was a Young Justice thing. Eiling just got Talk no Jutsu'd.
So Gorilla Grodd just turned everybody into gorilla's. Apparently Grodd's plans weren't grand enough for Lex so he shot him.
JLU Patriot Act:
Eiling is seriously going to resurrect an old project called "Captain Nazi?" Eiling went all T Virus monster. Lol apparently Speedy has always had the side kick issues judging by his brief cameo in this episode. I always thought it was a Young Justice thing. Eiling just got Talk no Jutsu'd.
JadedWriter
Member
It's the most attention he's ever going to get. I can understand how he's both relevant to the plot yet at the same time irrelevant. He pretty much was Kuvira's source of support, he would do anything for her and once she turned her back on his loyalty her campaign suffered heavily because she lost the support and sense of family that she seemed to always want, yet at the same time, most of his plot relevance just seemed to piggy back off the stuff that Varrick did and it could've just been done by some random scientist.
Icyflamez96
Member
Did we argue over Ikki yet.
It's a waste of energy.
She's Tenzin's best kid.
Icyflamez96
Member
I disagree.
Alright, I think that's everyone!
Alright, I think that's everyone!
BKatastrophe
Member
The fucking Gorilla City episode?!
"That looks like some sort of genetic reconfiguration matrix."
"You're pretty smart, for a homo sapien."
Greatest.
Dialogue.
Ever.
Also yeah, Eiling is a shit bag. What's new?
She really is.
FeenixRising
Banned
BKatastrophe
Member
Infinite Justice
Member
So basically the writing hardly gives us nothing of note. Story of the life of this series tbh smh
fixed.
fixed.
FeenixRising
Banned
We don't know shit about Rohan other than the fact he became a little hell raiser at the end of Season 4
Icyflamez96
Member
nah I like all of them to an extent but ikki is the best
JadedWriter
Member
Any kid is better than Meelo and Jinora. Ikki is the best because she doesn't act like her shit don't stink or just farts all over the place being annoying. Meelo in Season 4 even managed to inherit Book 1 Sokka's sexism. I mean wtf!
BKatastrophe
Member
Which is exactly why he's better than Jinora and Meelo.
That wasn't even the issue. Book 3 wasn't even the issue. B4 was. They did nothing with her. After building her up to be an airbending master for two seasons, and then to do jack shit with it in the fourth. THAT is what the issue was.
Infinite Justice
Member
Oh yea that bullshit lol
JadedWriter
Member
But they still managed to find time for her to get kidnapped again. Great spiritual connection and some spirit vines nab her ass.
Considering what day it really is it looks like Amon is about to take Tarloq on a trip to get high as fuck.Ya'll know what day it is.
FeenixRising
Banned
Ya'll know what day it is.
what's today?
420 blaze it
FeenixRising
Banned
oh... pfft, thought you were talking about something else.
How the hell did 4/20 get designated as the National Weed Smoking Day anyway?
BKatastrophe
Member
It's true, though.
BKatastrophe
Member
One of many reasons why Balance is the worst book.
Icyflamez96
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
JadedWriter
Member
More successful than Team Rocket.
It's like all that hype for her at the end of book 3 amounted to fuck all.
FeenixRising
Banned
Icyflamez96
Member
Pretty sure most people here still think Book 2 is the worst
BKatastrophe
Member
I feel that way. Most others will probably say Spirits is, and that's fine. I understand why, but for me it was B4. Too much of it feels wrong. The pacing, the simple dropping of characters like flies, and a whole lot amounting to fuck all. It feels like a finale season and a set-up season all in one and fails at both, since there's nothing to set-up and it's just a poorly done finale all together. It falls flat.
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