JadedWriter
Member
Then what exactly is Su's personality problem? I'm not chasing a psych degree like you are so of course I won't be that accurate at identifying all of the personality disorders as you are.
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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
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Icyflamez96
Member
But I'm talking about from the point of chapter 699/698, to where it is now. Now taking into account the stuff that happened before.
It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. This response that post is a non sequitur.
In terms of a clinical diagnosis? Probably nothing. I'll check up on the exact criteria once I have time, but disorders are usually something that disrupts a functional lifestyle (hence the term 'disorder'), and Su's life is very functional. If anything, Lin might be suffering from depression.
JadedWriter
Member
Ok, that makes more sense since Su actually had no problem sustaining a life that included multiple people and had no problem actually building new human contacts, which Lin clearly had a problem with. Nor did she endlessly hold onto a grudge that inhibited her having a better life. Lin probably just came home and emptied a bottle of Jack Daniels every night.
Yeah. She also seems happy in general. So her life is pretty on track, psychologically speaking.
You know a potential interesting characterization would be? If Lin's focusing on her family issues because they're preferable to the shit she sees as a cop. They never go into what being a cop actually entails. If being a good cop in Republic city is like being a good cop in new York, pretending your biggest problem is your sister and lost love might be preferable.
Infinite Justice
Member
So basically
Lin: "you don't want to know the shit I've seen while on this job," *downs bottle of whiskey*
Icyflamez96
Member
I addressed what you said directly. I don't think he's a well written character all the way through, nor was I saying that. Now his progression from 699 to what he's doing now doesn't seem so unbelievable to me.
I mean, I just want more depth to Lin. It does not have to necessarily be negative like that example, but I have no idea what being a cop means to Lin, as a characterization. Her being sick of the shit she's seen as a cop is just one venue of that.
Sakura sunk real low for someone who was once the Hokage's apprentice, the pupil of another Hokage, and the teammate of yet another one
"Muh Loan" Sakura a poor foster mom with life-destroying anger issues and a "husband" who just abandons her with a kid that might not be hers.
Sakura has to be based off so chick that dumped Kishi or something cause the L he gives her is unreal worse then Mako and Baatar.
Sasuke is now a deadbeat dad and wouldn't even take a recent picture with simp sakura.
All the kids besides Salad are like there parents.
Kishi is not normal, man
a normal writer would have definitely gotten tired of this shit
a 6-month break, and they'd definitely think "eh, might as well go out with a proper bang"
but it's the same shit.
JadedWriter
Member
If that is the case then Mako looks forward to being a cop because it's his way of preventing shit like that. I would guess Lin preferred being alone because she didn't want her work related stress to drag down another relationship like it did with Tenzin? She did bust Su on the job so she might just think being around her is toxic.
I would like to think being a cop is probably what Lin used to bring herself closer to Toph, sort of back fired though. She takes the responsibility very seriously though minus book 2 Lin, but I'm going to assume she enjoys it.
m_shortpants
Member
I have never watched Naruto. Nor read any of the manga.
I feel pure.
I feel pure.
That'd be another good thing. In the Discworld novels, Vimes was a deadbeat cop until the idealistic Carrot joined, who basically motivated him and the rest of the City Watch to straighten up and become decent police officers. Lin would never have to necessarily be a deadbeat, but in teaching Mako, she could have rediscovered or even discovered new things about what it means to be a cop, as it tends to happen when any mentor teaches a student. It would have given Mako, Lin and their relationship depth.
It was, but it's got to be more than that. Lin has to have her own feelings on being a cop, on the hundreds of different aspects of being a cop, how she has lived her life as a cop, etc. It's never that simple.
JadedWriter
Member
It would've provided those two some much needed character growth instead of just making Mako seem like a personality less douche and Lin "Chief cranky pants." Lin does seem like an actual good person without growling, but they very rarely portrayed her that way, minus her rogue cop stint and noble sacrifice in book 1. Sadly they really don't go into what Lin thinks about anything. We know she has problems with Toph, but we don't exactly see what it was about being a cop that made her stick with it, she's done it for decades. You don't do some shit for that long unless you get something out of it unless the pay is that good and she doesn't seem like the person to keep a job because she likes that watercooler chatter. We don't even see her talk to most of her extended family. She spoke to Toph, Su, Opal, that is all. Wouldn't mind a Huan and Lin conversation.
Train of Midnight
Banned
Icyflamez96
Member
LMAO
I watched some of it when my local kids channel started their own version of Toonami. Stopped watching TV for a while and when I caught a random episode one night, my response was "wtf am I watching".
JadedWriter
Member
I'm convinced if Bolin and Korra hooked up then this is what them and their kids would be doing in front of the mirror forever.
I saw an ep on Amazon Prime several months ago, the dub is shit so I just stopped watching it. I'll try again one day but now...fuck no. How you enjoying Outlaw Star?
FeenixRising
Banned
I mean damn.
I hated Sakura from the jump... I never liked her.
But damn, Imma need her to win just once man.... just one time.
And I said Mako was carrying around an L the size of Mount Everest.... Sakura's L is the size of Olympus Mons.
The romance of Naruto is kinda fucked in general. Characters get crushes on other characters and basically keep them forever. Only Naruto himself got over it, but even he was implied to have been in genuine love with Sakura, even though he admitted he only liked her because Sasuke did and there wasn't a major shift in their relationship other than Sakura gaining more respect for Naruto's power.
Like, people cheer for Hinata, but she's no better than Sakura, just luckier she decided to like a nicer guy and was more likable in terms of personality and spank material. Romance in Naruto is abysmal, despite Kishimoto having a lot of chances for pretty good relationship development. Hinata gaining inspiration from Naruto to become a better person would be great if she fucking told him about it, and that in itself would be extremely meaningful to Naruto who sought to have people acknowledge him. But that never happens.
Sakura really does have it the worst though. Kishi basically defines her by her love for Sasuke, without even justifying that love. It doesn't matter that he is rude to her, that he emotionally abuses her, that he tried to fucking kill her without regret, she will always love him. And this is the result, he is still treating her like shit, and she just takes it.
On a more positive note, this AMV is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5VRe7Sgmkg
Like, people cheer for Hinata, but she's no better than Sakura, just luckier she decided to like a nicer guy and was more likable in terms of personality and spank material. Romance in Naruto is abysmal, despite Kishimoto having a lot of chances for pretty good relationship development. Hinata gaining inspiration from Naruto to become a better person would be great if she fucking told him about it, and that in itself would be extremely meaningful to Naruto who sought to have people acknowledge him. But that never happens.
Sakura really does have it the worst though. Kishi basically defines her by her love for Sasuke, without even justifying that love. It doesn't matter that he is rude to her, that he emotionally abuses her, that he tried to fucking kill her without regret, she will always love him. And this is the result, he is still treating her like shit, and she just takes it.
On a more positive note, this AMV is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5VRe7Sgmkg
JadedWriter
Member
Sakura sounds like a fucking doormat and Sasuke sounds like a far worse husband than Vegeta...in fact I can't even lump them together since Vegeta actually legit loves Bulma (his "you smacked my bitch up power up" against Beerus) and he raised and cares for Trunks. Holy shit, I hope nobody is using Naruto as some sort of relationship training manual.
FeenixRising
Banned
Yaaasssss
Anyhow.
Here's the thing that bugged me.
Invasion of Pein - Hinata pretty much sacrifices herself in a somewhat vain attempt to save Naruto. Tells him she loves him then goes off and fight Pein by herself and ends up getting murked.
You would think they would capitalize on that.
NOPE. It was like nothing happened the next day... Naruto was still thirstin Sakura and Hinata was still in the background being shy
They literally waited until the series was over to remember "oh yea, she tried coming to his rescue that one time"
On Narcissism:
With A, I wouldn't say that Su suffers with either impairments of identity or self direction. She does what she wants, but she's remarkably humble about things and definitely stable. And she is clearly capable of empathy and intimacy so those don't apply, though I guess it could be argued she needs to make an effort to empathize with Opal's situation, but this is more likely just an ordinary mistake. As far as her pathological traits go, Antagonism was part of her life as a teenager, but less so as an adult, so it might fall under being part of her developmental stage. Grandiosity I think is the only one that definitely applies, Su is a RIDICULOUS woman, with her numerous accomplishments like building her own city, and sometimes feels entitled to certain things, like Lin's forgiveness. The only time she holds firm to a certain belief being superior is when discussing politics. Her being the center of attention seems unintentional, but she is a big figure regardless, so it might be a subconcious machination. Notice how being controlling isn't part of the diagnostic criteria.
All in all, Su just seems like a normal person. High achieving, with blind spots, but no personality disorder.
I know. I honestly don't know which relationship is more fucked up, Sasuke and Sakura, or Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto is just as dedicated to being his friend, even as Sasuke tries to murder him and everyone he knows like 10 times over. Imagine the friendship between Goku and Vegeta from DBZ abridged, except not played as a joke.
With A, I wouldn't say that Su suffers with either impairments of identity or self direction. She does what she wants, but she's remarkably humble about things and definitely stable. And she is clearly capable of empathy and intimacy so those don't apply, though I guess it could be argued she needs to make an effort to empathize with Opal's situation, but this is more likely just an ordinary mistake. As far as her pathological traits go, Antagonism was part of her life as a teenager, but less so as an adult, so it might fall under being part of her developmental stage. Grandiosity I think is the only one that definitely applies, Su is a RIDICULOUS woman, with her numerous accomplishments like building her own city, and sometimes feels entitled to certain things, like Lin's forgiveness. The only time she holds firm to a certain belief being superior is when discussing politics. Her being the center of attention seems unintentional, but she is a big figure regardless, so it might be a subconcious machination. Notice how being controlling isn't part of the diagnostic criteria.
All in all, Su just seems like a normal person. High achieving, with blind spots, but no personality disorder.
I know. I honestly don't know which relationship is more fucked up, Sasuke and Sakura, or Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto is just as dedicated to being his friend, even as Sasuke tries to murder him and everyone he knows like 10 times over. Imagine the friendship between Goku and Vegeta from DBZ abridged, except not played as a joke.
Outlaw Star is great, it's kind of like a goofier Cowboy Bebop with some Gurren Lagann mixed in. I'm halfway through right now and really impressed with the show so far. The characters are pretty good too, I like how Gene doesn't give a shit and goes all out whenever he gets into trouble. The only character I'm not feeling is Melfina, she seems pretty useless for the most part.
JadedWriter
Member
Ok so Su just has personality issues, though she's not an attention whore, I can live with that. Whole cast has glaring personality problems though they're not insane, not even Eska. Are the fight scenes in Naruto at least good? I mean why is it so god damn popular and won't just...end?
Melfina exists to pilot the ship. I always saw Gene as a less badass Spike. He's the weakest combatant of the crew, but I love me some Aisha and Suzaku.
Who doesn't have personality issues?
And no, you don't even get that. You had something going on in early naruto where it was more about strategy and tactics, but as it progressed in Part 2, it just became DBZ Ki blast, power pissing contest. Which is one of the biggest disappoint parts of it because I LOVED how tactical Naruto was in the beginning.
JadedWriter
Member
So pretty much Bleach and Naruto are worse than DBZ?
I mean, in what regard? They all suck in such variety!
Naruto started good and was a slow descent into awfulness. Is it the single worst piece of fiction ever? I don't know, things like My Immortal might edge it out. Bleach might even edge it out, especially in the later sagas. But nothing hurt as much as seeing Naruto fall into the sewage.
Bleach is just...incomprehensible. It started off with a kinda boring "monster of the week", and then had a rather compelling long arc that seemed to set up a pretty compelling world. But then you realize it's all surface level and the writer has no idea what to do with them once the initial fight is done, and the power system became quite nonsensical. And then the plot became so, and characters...honestly, I stopped after the full bringer arc, but from what I hear, people literally don't understand wtf Bleach is trying to say anymore. Naruto was bad, but atleast it was comprehensible.
DBZ is always going to have DB, which automatically elevates it to greater heights. And DBZ abridged is actually a really good retelling of the story. I feel it never got to the nonsense that Bleach and Naruto went to until GT reared it's ugly head, but yeah, it was very flawed in trying to keep it's powers balanced and it's characters deep. But it had way more redeeming value than either Naruto or Bleach.
Arakawa-sama, Silver Spoon is great and all, but plz make another shonen
JadedWriter
Member
Man after reading that I don't regret not watching Bleach. Granted it took me a bit to grasp FMA but at least that's actually good. Last good Shonen for me was YYH and Kenshin. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is at least self aware dumb fun and it's good that way.
Infinite Justice
Member
i get ya its just that usually going to a bottle means some rough shit happened.
got this pic from the manga thread which might be from that movie but look at this compared to what happened (and its without the whole "is salad actually not her daughter?" implications)
I kinda feel bad now :/
I hope everyone who hasn't read Naruto now understands the utter contempt I have for how the series ended up. I don't understand, but Kishimoto went from being pretty damn good for a shonen writer to someone who doesn't understand basic narrative. It's the worst. Even in the face of competition that's technically more badly written, it's the worst.
Icyflamez96
Member
The story got so garbage but why is it so damn fun for me to follow
Infinite Justice
Member
i'm there with you.
and this is coming from someone who placed it above One Piece in regards to the 'Big Three" rankings for a good amount time there (until OP fucking went places).
i'm there with you.
and this is coming from someone who placed it above One Piece in regards to the 'Big Three" rankings for a good amount time there (until OP fucking went places).
Speaking of OP, this weeks chapter is exactly the kind of shit that drives me up the wall. Gear 4th is apparently has the hardest tactile of any of Luffy's techniques, but apparently is still lacking in density enough for Luffy to be bouncing despite all he inhaled was plain air. And somehow this technique allows him to pull in body into his own bone structure. And somehow Haki, which is supposed to nullify DF powers, keeps his body rubbery WHILE hardening it? How can something be rubbery and elastic while still being hard as iron? Plus it carries over the Gear 3rd problem of how Luffy blows air into his body through his thumb (or why it doesn't blow out if there is apparently a hole in it. Or why it doesn't blow out if he's cut from his fights). Or how inflating oneself with air is supposed to increase power at all when the body still holds the same density and you're just filling it with...air. You're basically making yourself a giant balloon, which seems like it'd be weaker.
But I know, "lol, OP physics" Well, this is why OP fights are so uncompelling for me from a tactical perspective, they're complete nonsense rules over what is and is not effective. The techniques are purely a matter of aesthetics, and OP's aesthetics are extremely ugly to me.
Icyflamez96
Member
Man I don't even take it that seriously. Actually that's probably one of the reasons why I still enjoy it as much as I do.
As I recall how he got over the Haki nullying the ability was the part he stretched wasn't the part he actually hits with. Ergo, he doesn't stretch the hand coated in metal, but the forarm throwing the punch.
As for Balloon bone, I assumed that Luffy's punches are just naturally strong, and covering a wider range without increasing the density was enough.
Overall, it's weird, since I tend to enjoy One Piece fights more than most other animated or manga series. Even over Avatar battles. (My problem with Avatar is that while the fights look amazing, not a lot of tactics go into battle. It's very kinetic, but not a lot of thought actually go into a lot of fights.)
As for Balloon bone, I assumed that Luffy's punches are just naturally strong, and covering a wider range without increasing the density was enough.
Overall, it's weird, since I tend to enjoy One Piece fights more than most other animated or manga series. Even over Avatar battles. (My problem with Avatar is that while the fights look amazing, not a lot of tactics go into battle. It's very kinetic, but not a lot of thought actually go into a lot of fights.)
To this day, I don't know what "Don't take it seriously" is supposed to mean except "disregard your standards." Naruto is a narrative. Narratives can work or they can fail. It fails. I understand not really caring if a narrative fails or not in some cases, but that's not 'not taking it seriously', that's just being indifferent. And given I have history with Naruto, I can't be indifferent.
But his entire arm is coated in Haki. The only way this makes sense is that the visual indicator of Haki isn't an actual visual indicator.
A wider range is with the same energy is a less effective hit. That's why we use metal rather than sticks or sticks instead of wiffle bats. The denser the material is, the more damage it will do. if you don't have more density, it's just not doing any more damage unless you put in more energy into it.
Patently untrue. A lot of thought goes into Avatar fights. It's not as artificially choreographed with the calling out of attacks, but one of the reasons TLA is as good as it is is the consideration that goes into fights. I'd even place LoK fights over OP's because while they have much less thought, it has less bullshit in it too.
Icyflamez96
Member
Well yeah i'm not sure what else its supposed to mean.
I've said it many times before and I'll say it again, I stopped expect genuine quality from Naruto ages ago. I just find the characters/story and the fandom fun to follow.
That's dumb. You should never do that.
Edit: Not take things seriously, I mean.
There is a difference between giving up standards and just accepting they aren't reached. You're doing the latter, I just argue against the former, which is what I take 'not take it seriously' to mean. Take things VERY seriously, while also doing what you enjoy. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Edit: Not take things seriously, I mean.
There is a difference between giving up standards and just accepting they aren't reached. You're doing the latter, I just argue against the former, which is what I take 'not take it seriously' to mean. Take things VERY seriously, while also doing what you enjoy. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Well, it's kind of like comparing Fate/Zero and Fate Stay/Night to JoJo.
Some battles in Fate/Zero look amazing, breath taking and a lot of thought went into how the fighters move. But outside of a few moments fights are an instant blur.
While in JoJo an entire ep could go into figuring out a Stand/Ability. Everything has a rule, and how the main characters use that rule and their abilities to defeat the foe is what makes it interesting.
An example from Part 4 of JoJo is the main character can hell things to the point that it could be considered mini time alternation. As long as something is not dead he can revert it back to a state of function. (Ergo he can punch a hole in his mom and take out a parasite and heal her without her even noticing)
You might thing this is limited until you see how he uses it. Like reverting a crate into small trees or punching the concrete and carrying a piece of it with him. Then using his ability to let the piece of concrete fling him back to the place where he first created it.
I guess it really depends on ones suspension of disbelief and what is someone is looking in a fight.
Some battles in Fate/Zero look amazing, breath taking and a lot of thought went into how the fighters move. But outside of a few moments fights are an instant blur.
While in JoJo an entire ep could go into figuring out a Stand/Ability. Everything has a rule, and how the main characters use that rule and their abilities to defeat the foe is what makes it interesting.
An example from Part 4 of JoJo is the main character can hell things to the point that it could be considered mini time alternation. As long as something is not dead he can revert it back to a state of function. (Ergo he can punch a hole in his mom and take out a parasite and heal her without her even noticing)
You might thing this is limited until you see how he uses it. Like reverting a crate into small trees or punching the concrete and carrying a piece of it with him. Then using his ability to let the piece of concrete fling him back to the place where he first created it.
I guess it really depends on ones suspension of disbelief and what is someone is looking in a fight.
JadedWriter
Member
It's a different kind of fighting than the shonen "my technique specifically does this, which I can use to do this" vs just naturalistic martial arts movement. The latter is very different from the former, but certainly not thoughtless.
I like both, but I hate OP's because it goes "It works like this" and I go "No, that wouldn't fucking work that at all!" If you're going to make it tactical, then make be intelligent about it. So I can't get into any OP fights. They're too bullshit to admire for tactics, but not visually fantastic enough to like just for the aesthetic.
FeenixRising
Banned
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm having fun following a series, it gives me something to look forward to being excited about every now and then, even though I admit it's terribly written.
The bottom line is, if i'm having fun with something, then that's the main thing that matters. I'm not saying it's wrong for you to have been hurt by the franchise's downfall (I mean, I have too). I was supper disappointed with part 2 and stopped keeping up with it a while ago, but ended up getting back into it in 2013 after getting over how bad it got out of curiosity and found myself having fun with the whole thing.
I couldn't believe how good it felt to be reading a new chapter at 12:00 again when I read chapter 1 of the spinoff series tbh. I'm just not that salty about it anymore.
The bottom line is, if i'm having fun with something, then that's the main thing that matters. I'm not saying it's wrong for you to have been hurt by the franchise's downfall (I mean, I have too). I was supper disappointed with part 2 and stopped keeping up with it a while ago, but ended up getting back into it in 2013 after getting over how bad it got out of curiosity and found myself having fun with the whole thing.
I couldn't believe how good it felt to be reading a new chapter at 12:00 again when I read chapter 1 of the spinoff series tbh. I'm just not that salty about it anymore.
JadedWriter
Member
Again, I feel you don't actually read what I write. I am not objecting to what you are describing here and saying I understand it. I even engage with it. It's just not what I would call "not taking it seriously". You do take it seriously because you acknowledge it is badly written. You would not know that if you didn't. You just enjoy it in spite of that. Which I totally get (not for naruto, but other series).
Yup. Now you get it.
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