Korra herself is a very incomplete character honestly, she barely has arcs outside seasons 2/4. This would be okay if the story didn't try to keep saying she grew. Honestly, Season 1 could be erased from canon considering it didn't really do much for the over arcing plot of the series.
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The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER
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Korra herself is a very incomplete character honestly, she barely has arcs outside seasons 2/4. This would be okay if the story didn't try to keep saying she grew. Honestly, Season 1 could be erased from canon considering it didn't really do much for the over arcing plot of the series.
That being said Korra really does grow as a character in the last two seasons, I too really could not stand the brash and egotistical brat who would just brute force everything and was just so petulant about getting her way. I think her lowest moment is when she basically almost got the United Republic involved in the Water Nation Civil War because she felt she needed their navy because hey I am the Avatar. People may complain about Korra talking down Kuvira but it was a welcome change to KORRA SMASH that caused so many problems.
Damn I need to rewatch the show. I completely forgot how pissed off I was about her involvement with the civil war.
Oh man, I couldn't stand Korra's character in Books 1 and 2.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Well the entire point of season 1 was that she was cocky and was constantly getting knocked down pegs and getting shown she wasn't as good as she thought she was. And what was wrong with trying to get the United Republic Navy involved? Then Unalaq wouldn't have control of the south and his plan would have completely failed. I don't think you remember season 2 too well.
Also, you like that Korra grew but you don't like that she had to grow from somewhere? That's not how character development works.
The thing is, Korra didn't grow from season 1. She went right back to be ignorant and selfish at the start of Season 2.
Are you serious? Being knocked down a peg doesn't mean much if you keep acting like a petulant child, which is why it took a god damned Greek tragedy to really get her to change. If that was the point of Season 1 then it failed HARD. Let us not forget that Season 1 ended with the phenom getting everything she wanted.. What was wrong with getting the United Republic navy? It is this thing called insurrection, she was basically trying to cajole and manipulate General Iroh into betraying his commending officer because Korra was a brute and sucked at diplomacy. It really was her worst moment and that is saying something. You misunderstand me, I like the fact that Korra became a tolerable and indeed likable character in the latter seasons. She may of had to grow from somewhere but I do not like her beginnings at all.
I keep telling people The Vision of Escaflowne, few regret watching that show. There's also Guardian of the Spirit.
Here's another good piece:
Kuvira looks boss as fuck in those shades!!!
Excellent posts.
Is Escaflowne being streamed anywhere? I don't want to have to hunt down box set of a 1996 anime.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Korra trying to go around Raiko and commandeer the United Navy was a pretty bad move.
m_shortpants
Member
Was Korra that crazy in Book 1 though? I'll give you book 2, she was crazy in there. But in book one I can't really think of anything terribly offensive she does.
Also:
Young Justice S01E17
How is this show so fucking good? I'm setting myself on course for massive disappointment.
Fucking LOL at how no one includes Captain Marvel. I feel so bad for the guy.
I remember this pissing me off tremendously.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
But she did... She accepted that she wasn't as ready to be the Avatar as she needed to be, which is why she's so eager to learn about the spirits from Unalaq.
She doesn't keep acting like that though. In season 2 she still may not be sunshine and rainbows, but she isn't going around the way she was in season 1, she's frustrated at the inactivity of everyone about the civil war and Raiko's isolationist attitude. With getting everything she wanted in the end, well... Yea, it was meant as the ony season, you want the series to end with her crying in the gutter as all her friends spit on her. And I think you continue to misunderstand how character development works because she's meant to start out flawed and you may not like a lot of things about her, that's where the growth comes in, as she changes and becomes something you like. You can't have good progression if she starts being everything you like and ends being everything you like.
But he was wrong. Are we supposed to take Raiko's will as law because he's president? Should Zuko have stuck by his father because he was the fire lord? Should Aang have not tried to challenge the establishment is Ba Sing Se because it wasn't his city?
How are you so far already? I'm on episode 4 and starting to get sucked into it too, even though I told myself I wouldn't.
Certainly not as bad as Season 2 but she is still a bratty little shut in who is pretty insufferable at times, the scary thing is this all makes sense from a chracter standpoint. It isn't bad characterization because Korra was raised as the Avatar in isolation and her personality is the natural result of that upbringing and Season 2 is its logical progression into intolerable hubris mingled in with brutish desperation which gets scaled back but is still present in Season 3 and is a huge factor into her downfall at the end of Season 3 and her 3 year descent into a karmic hell where she learns the hard lessons that she always needed to learn in order to be a good person and a better Avatar. Shit, that is actually kind of genius in its own idiom, doesn't mean I want to watch teenage Korra or Season 2 nutter Korra again.
Yeah I was getting deep into the weeds of my 'head cannon' and forgot. Still though, Korra has been pulling some pretty crazy wtf 'because she can' things out her butt for the entire run, and I figured that at least attempting to tangentially explain some of the oddities would have a purpose.
I might be messing up some details but:
Book 1:
Air Bending out of nowhere after having her powers cut off
Suddenly getting her full powers back, achieving the Avatar State AND Spirit Bending, say what you will about her past lives coming to say hi, that even happening on top of the air bending moment should have suggested some oddity about her.
Book 2:
Giant Blue self (using only her own spirit???) that goes toe to toe with Unalaq after losing Rava and her connection to the past lives
Book 3:
Obviously nothing on the scale of books 1 and 2, but her feats in the Avatar state while poisoned could still be brought.
Book 4:
Have not completed, I'm sure she did some crazy 'because I can' things in the finale though.
Even simply saying that Korra has an ability to tap into the primal (spiritual?) forces of the cosmos that seems to be unique to her might be sufficient for how she have managed to recover from and bypass what were supposedly hard locks on her abilities. It could also play part of a role in why she has struggled with her spiritual side so often, the two are in some way conflicting. I wouldn't want Korra to get a free pass on her difficulties with that side of being the avatar though, I quite liked that she seemed far more unbalanced than Ang. But again, if that explanation was used, its resolution would play into the theme of 'balance'.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Just add that to the pile of things people complain about in Korra but not The Last Airbender
m_shortpants
Member
The spirit cannon landing in the spirit wilds in such a way that when Korra enters it's pointing directly at her is a deus ex machina. So much so that Veelk changed his avatar lol.
As Mr Fahrenheit also points out, the rock that opens Aang's chakra is a really bad example as well.
See I still disagree with it being a DEM. It makes sense in its own right, and doesn't seem so out of place like random airbending or Jinora's Light/kaiju Korra (as much as I love it). Plus, it's not like it was the sole factor into stopping Kuvira.
m_shortpants
Member
It was still far too convenient. That's the very definition of a DEM.
Eh. I'd say the Chekhov's Gun was the bigger issue when it comes to convenience.
I'm confused. Deus Ex Machinas refer to implausible or randomly divine concepts or events occuring solely to resolve a situation.
I'm not seeing how Kuvira throwing her giant gun into the woods, and her picking up said gun to shoot Korra is a DEM. If anything, it's a literal example of Chekhov's Gun.
I'm not seeing how Kuvira throwing her giant gun into the woods, and her picking up said gun to shoot Korra is a DEM. If anything, it's a literal example of Chekhov's Gun.
AlfonzoPalutena
Member
Wow! I really like your idea as well! My narrative did suffer a bit from sticking to existing Korra characters. In my head I thought it would be cool to do more buildup towards the Red Lotus, as this amazing organization with lots of silent influence on the world. Then, when Korra finally topples the top guys (Ghazan, Ming Hua, P'li, and Unalaq), she finds that they were small fish compared to what lies ahead (UnaVatuu).
I guess I was hesitant to branch out from the existing content because I had no idea what I would create. I like that you addressed side characters, I was going to but it was too much of a headache.
Ideally Asami and Hiroshi's relationship, Tenzin's family drama, Lin's family drama, and Jinora's spiritual arc would all be fleshed out as the "B-Plot" in each season.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Most people don't actually understand the meaning of the term. Really, Korra's airbending at the end of season 1 wasn't deus ex machina either because where it came from is explainable within the rules of the story.
How was it not? I don't recall it being explained.
You're going to have to explain how the rules of the story offered an explanation.
The best explanation I can think of (spit balling here) is her pathways to air bend weren't open at the time, so Amon couldn't detect/lock it along with everything else, and when she tried really hard to bend in a moment of desperation all of her energy forced her air pathway open.
This was the product of my ass, use it well.
I think this was the official reasoning behind it. It's shit but it's not a dem.
m_shortpants
Member
Pretty sure this was the explanation Katara or someone gave.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Season 3 is the only case of a Korra finale not having any Deus ex machina in place.
In Season 1, Korra spontaneously is able to use airbending despite never being capable of it the entire season and having all her bending locked away. Not only that, but Deus Ex Aang himself shows up and restores all of Korra's bending problem free without any buildup whatsoever.
In Season 2, Jinora somehow gains unexplained spirtiual powers. She then is able to pretty much help pretty much anyone out and then intervenes in the final fight by making Unalaq vulnerable to Korra and death.
Season 4 has a mild case of it when Korra energybends the spirit blast from the spirit gun in order to shield her and Kuvira when she never showed the ability to do so beforehand in the entire Kuvira mech fight.
In Season 1, Korra spontaneously is able to use airbending despite never being capable of it the entire season and having all her bending locked away. Not only that, but Deus Ex Aang himself shows up and restores all of Korra's bending problem free without any buildup whatsoever.
In Season 2, Jinora somehow gains unexplained spirtiual powers. She then is able to pretty much help pretty much anyone out and then intervenes in the final fight by making Unalaq vulnerable to Korra and death.
Season 4 has a mild case of it when Korra energybends the spirit blast from the spirit gun in order to shield her and Kuvira when she never showed the ability to do so beforehand in the entire Kuvira mech fight.
Hm, maybe I subconsciously remembered. Still no better reason to rewatch season 1! I really don't recall any explanation within season 1.
If a rewatch thread does happen, how does it work? Is there a set timeframe to watch each episode and then discuss it (like a week per ep?).
*Spits out water*
This should be cannon.
EDIT: Nope! too epic to leave it at that. With the context of sending it to Mako, I've never seen a bigger smug face of 'fuck you' complete and total planetary annihilation in my life. The very essence of "Hey remember when you had both of us and ruined it three times over? Yeah, this is mine now.
If a rewatch thread does happen, how does it work? Is there a set timeframe to watch each episode and then discuss it (like a week per ep?).
Now, imagine the moment Asami mails this to Mako weeks or months after the ending.
*Spits out water*
This should be cannon.
EDIT: Nope! too epic to leave it at that. With the context of sending it to Mako, I've never seen a bigger smug face of 'fuck you' complete and total planetary annihilation in my life. The very essence of "Hey remember when you had both of us and ruined it three times over? Yeah, this is mine now.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
It isn't explicitly stated in the moment, but looking back at what we know with Aang (and with what he straight up says) the Avatar is able to tap into deeply hidden potential in moments of extreme duress (as he did more than once when he went into the avatar state and used bending he otherwise couldn't) so you could assume it's related to the Avatar state in some capacity, but since she wasn't fully there yet she didn't go all the way in, just enough to unlock her airbending abilities. If you call it a DEM then you're essentially calling the avatar's entire being a DEM, it may seem that way, but that's the established lore, so by definition it isn't.
Edit: I should also add that over explaining things is bad story telling because you end up with things like midichlorians and no one is having a good time. What happened in the end is in line with the established rules, so it shouldn't go much beyond that so you don't get caught trying to explain magic kug fu in great detail.
That's what I was thinking too, but we never saw Korra do spiritbending on anything spirit related aside from restoring powers to people back in 1 or using water back in 2, unless I'm not remembering more.
That bold part is a bit of a stretch.
I'd probably buy it if Korra went fully into the Avatar State when about to lose her powers, but having to assume she only slightly tapped into it is a big leap for me if nothing prior has been hinted at to say such a thing could happen.
If Katara did say something about it explaining it, then I can buy it, but I'll definitely have to rewatch Book 1.
williamsan
Member
I think the spirit cannon's blast kind of resembled Unavaatu's chest beam a little bit, in idea if not fashion. Like, just straight up spirit energy. But I don't think parallels were meant to be drawn there, I think they wanted us to think that the spirit cannon was this, "never before seen" level of power in the Avatar universe.
I think Korra's stopping the spirit cannon was a DEM, but it viscerally felt ok to me for some reason. No red flags or anything.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
It really isn't, we've been shown that you can fade in and out of the Avatar state, and it was still when Korra wasn't at all in tune with the Spirits, so that moment was her starting to push through but she wasn't quite able to go full on yet.
m_shortpants
Member
Young Justice does character growth sooooo well.
Going into the avatar state is marked with the glowing white eyes. Korra's airbending didn't have anything to do with the Avatar State at all, or any sort of tapping into it.
I'm not seeing any facts, and the assumptions are a stretch from what's provided within Book 1 unless there's some quotes or scenes I'm forgetting. I'm fairly sure I would remember something like this though.
Re-watching the scene this is what Katara said in the Book 1 finale after trying to heal Korra.
Unless I missed something?
Dang that Aang scene is so hokey.
"I've tried everything in my power. I cannot restore Korra's bending.
I'm sorry, there's nothing else I can do. Korra can still airbend, but her connection to the other elements has been severed."
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Uh no, it's pretty well supported by the context clues. After that she has full, upfront contact with her past lives, something she never had before, that moment was certainly her starting to make contact with her Avatar spirit, she just didn't go full Avatar State. It was subtle. You know, the thing everyone is praising Bryke for in the couple of minutes they spent building up Korrasami.
Is that all she said? That's...nothing :/.
But we're talking about how Korra got airbending, which occurred way before that scene.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Yes. I am. Scenes don't exist in seperate realities from one another.
The mighty power of Korrasami ha.
No, but one did happen before the other, and I'm not seeing how Aang's explanation applies to Korra's new Airbending powers. It applied to her finally connecting to her spiritual side to tap into her previous lives finally.
I mean, we could fill in the blanks to come up with a reason why and how gained the ability to airbend when she did, but those very blanks are what make her gaining airbending at that exact point an inexplicable deus ex machina.
Anyone else have input on Korra's airbending? I'm obviously lost.
Yep that is all of Katara's dialogue in Endgame. Not much really ¯\_(ツ
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Korra in extreme duress > starts reaching deep trying to tap into her avatar powers she hasn't had before > can't quite get into the avatar state but still makes the connection enough to unlock her ability to use airbending (the same way Aang was fire/water/earth bending when he had no idea how to do that, albeit in full avatar state) > some small time later she has complete contact with her past lives, which she never did before > this comes back around to prove that what happened was indeed her getting in contact with the powers of the Avatar which unlocked her airbending to save her when she couldn't get all the way into the avatar state
It isn't filling in the blanks, it's pretty much all there and lines up with the established rules of the show.
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