• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Legend of Korra: Book 4 |OT2| ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

Status
Not open for further replies.
Granted I only got a little over halfway on my re-watch of Spirits, but something I forgot was actually how well done the Water Tribe Civil War plot is. Varrick is a damn mastermind, and all for some cash. I know a lot of people only remember the Civil War taking up a small amount of time, but it's actually the basis for everything Mako, Bolin, and Asami are doing. The rest is Harmonic Convergence plot.

Fucking unforeseen props to Spirits

There was no payoff to that plot whatsoever though.

Varrick takes over Future Industries. Okay. He does a bunch of bad shit and ends up getting caught and going to jail.

Then he escapes. Future Industries is fine. Mako is fine. Bolin doesn't seem to be overtly famous. There is absolutely zero impact from that little plotline on the overarching story. It still baffles me to this day. You could take that entire sequence of events out of the season and the end result is identical.

It only existed to give Mako, Asami, and Bolin something to do while Korra did the important stuff. What terrible writing.
 

Toxi

Banned
There was no payoff to that plot whatsoever though.

Varrick takes over Future Industries. Okay. He does a bunch of bad shit and ends up getting caught and going to jail.

Then he escapes. Future Industries is fine. Mako is fine. Bolin doesn't seem to be overtly famous. There is absolutely zero impact from that little plotline on the overarching story. It still baffles me to this day. You could take that entire sequence of events out of the season and the end result is identical.

It only existed to give Mako, Asami, and Bolin something to do while Korra did the important stuff. What terrible writing.
Agreed. It feels completely inconsequential even within season 2; the ultimate payoff was Varrick giving Korra and co. a boat.
 
There was no payoff to that plot whatsoever though.

Varrick takes over Future Industries. Okay. He does a bunch of bad shit and ends up getting caught and going to jail.

Then he escapes. Future Industries is fine. Mako is fine. Bolin doesn't seem to be overtly famous. There is absolutely zero impact from that little plotline on the overarching story. It still baffles me to this day. You could take that entire sequence of events out of the season and the end result is identical.

It only existed to give Mako, Asami, and Bolin something to do while Korra did the important stuff. What terrible writing.

I wouldn't say it has zero impact, and I definitely wouldn't say it was terrible writing. The entire reason for Korra leaving and having to reconnect with Raava is in fact because of what happens during that. I mean, they could have left dangling and just focused on Harmonic Convergence the entire time, but then I think it really would have been terrible.

Besides, it may not have much impact or pay off on that season, but it has huge impacts on the rest of the series. Varrick escapes to Zaofu because of it. If he hadn't done that, he may never have met Kuvira, joined her, and effectively built her a superweapon.
 
Think of the dis-connectivity between the two main plot-lines for season 4. Korra getting better and understanding some underlying message (which unsurprisingly came half-baked, compassion, anyone?). Kuvira doing what she does with a message of modernization and equality determined by her own sense of what these concepts mean. Since she got the Hitler hammer, there was very little to show what was her motivations that was not contradicted by lol!Hitler. Or straight up not told very well or at all.

In the end of this particular season, Korra SHOULD have learn to empathize AND understand the motivations of her opponents. Instead of "I learn about what compassion means", it should be "I understand why she did it" and maybe a line similar as Adolphe Thiers on reforming a empire to a republic, "the form of government that divides France least". What we got is Wu creating a republic on his own volition instead of Korra suggesting it. Just Korra saying that silly compassion line.

Now, in the case of season 2, turn that dis-connectivity up to 11. Right now, I have blocked season 2 so far out of my mind, I can't make a full recollection on this. My apologizes. *might edit it in later if I do a quick rewatch*
From the top of my head here's what I remembered: Water Tribe Civil War, Mustache Villain, Korra wants proper spiritual training because Tenzin is useless, Aang was a bad father and the sibling issues from it, Varrick war profiteering, Korra retreads character development in the spirit world/Avatar lore. Seems like a too many cooks or garbage plate situation.
 

Joeytj

Banned
To be fair, Varrick did end up having an important role in the series, even if we didn't see his impact in Book 2. His and Zhu Li's story in Book 4 and transformation into another member of Team Avatar was more meaningful because of what the antagonist he was in Book 2.

As I've said before, a lot what happened in Book 2 was very consequential for the series and actually very interesting, but the execution was just... confusing at best. I want to re-watch the series as a whole again, just to see how it all fits, although Book 1 is honestly very much a standalone season. Serves only to introduce the characters, since most of their development is eliminated in Book 2.
 
To be fair, Varrick did end up having an important role in the series, even if we didn't see his impact in Book 2. His and Zhu Li's story in Book 4 and transformation into another member of Team Avatar was more meaningful because of what the antagonist he was in Book 2.

As I've said before, a lot what happened in Book 2 was very consequential for the series and actually very interesting, but the execution was just... confusing at best. I want to re-watch the series as a whole again, just to see how it all fits, although Book 1 is honestly very much a standalone season. Serves only to introduce the characters, since most of their development is eliminated in Book 2.

Both Air and Spirits are very much standalone, but both affect each other. Air is the base for where the characters are at in Spirits, which becomes the base for the plot surrounding Change which flows directly into Balance.
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
Implied eh?
tumblr_nhdnqu8Iz11qm8wf8o1_1280.gif

By the same person who did the other 2 animations. This may or may not be... too much.

g84rLK6.gif
 
SO I'm left hungry for new animation, now that Korra has ended. There was a lot of discussion about Sword Art Online, so I decided to try.

tumblr_nctgkaWGoK1sdv4s4o2_250.gif


tumblr_nctgkaWGoK1sdv4s4o1_250.gif



NOPE.
Seriously, Fuck this anime so hard.
I should just marathon all of Avatar...
 

Daemul

Member
Watch me.
tumblr_inline_ndo27plRfK1rdv606.gif


Haha, these are excellent.

You know, I thought a lot of guys would be into Korrasami, at least like me for the totally immature reasons.

Before the finale I was, since I never thought it would actually happen, so I could let my imagination run wild. When I did see it happen it pretty much flipped a switch in my head, Korrasami was actually a thing and I had to start taking it seriously lol
 
One of these days you guys are going to take it too far.


Anyway, I thought the Civil War plot was a mess. The entire episode without Korra was just a slog for me.
 

Omikaru

Member
One of these days you guys are going to take it too far.


Anyway, I thought the Civil War plot was a mess. The entire episode without Korra was just a slog for me.

All of Book 2 was a mess. Felt like a first draft with just nonsensical plot being hammered in as best as it could.

Korra had a lot of problems with being too crammed, but Book 2 is pretty much a cavalcade of issues on top of that. I totally believe Bryke when they say its production was hellish.
 

Lethe82

Banned
Good point.

I kind of wish that TLOK was set far later in the timeline to the point where technology posed a significant threat to benders.

Amon could have been a brilliant nonbender that used a machine to take someone's bending away.

Spirtuality/bending being forgotten in an age obsessed with scientific advancement which would lead to backlash from people like Unalaq.

I think that TLoK did show technology as a real threat to benders, they just never followed up on it all that well. Even in season 1 those mech suits were handling some of the best benders on the planet, and trained equalist fighters were able to put up a fight against benders.
 

Afrocious

Member
What do you folks think of the idea of Netflix picking up Avatar from Nick?

I read an interesting op ed on Forbes suggesting such.

I'd definitely support it. Both Nick and Netflix would benefit of the former sold the rights to the latter.

I'd also be more than willing see Bryke do work on a Netflix Avatar.

Also, how is binge watching either series? I've always watched each episode as they aired. Would Avatar be suited for a whole strain season releases once a year?
 
What do you folks think of the idea of Netflix picking up Avatar from Nick?

I read an interesting op ed on Forbes suggesting such.

I'd definitely support it. Both Nick and Netflix would benefit of the former sold the rights to the latter.

I'd also be more than willing see Bryke do work on a Netflix Avatar.
I don't think that Nick would sell the rights unfortunately. It would be mutually beneficial if the property was licensed to Netflix to produce themselves with Nick still retaining IP ownership. Then again Viacom and Netflix haven't been playing nice lately, at least in the US. Amazon would be a more likely choice.
 
I think that TLoK did show technology as a real threat to benders, they just never followed up on it all that well. Even in season 1 those mech suits were handling some of the best benders on the planet, and trained equalist fighters were able to put up a fight against benders.
I actually don't think the Equalist fighters were much of a threat after the first fight Korra had with them. Would also depend on the actual hand to hand abilities of the bender. Lin wiped the floor with a lot of them, so I would assume Suyin and Kuvira would be able to beat them as well. Tenzin as well did a good job fighting them and once Korra knew what they were capable of she adapted her fighting style pretty well to them. They were only a threat afterwards because of their use of technology and their numbers. I believe even the mech suits went down with proper planning and team work.
 

Afrocious

Member
I don't think that Nick would sell the rights unfortunately. It would be mutually beneficial if the property was licensed to Netflix to produce themselves with Nick still retaining IP ownership. Then again Viacom and Netflix haven't been playing nice lately, at least in the US. Amazon would be a more likely choice.

Nick retaining the IP wouldn't be a bad compromise depending on how much say so the company would have in the development of a show produced on Netflix.
 

Hamlet

Member
I don't think that Nick would sell the rights unfortunately. It would be mutually beneficial if the property was licensed to Netflix to produce themselves with Nick still retaining IP ownership. Then again Viacom and Netflix haven't been playing nice lately, at least in the US. Amazon would be a more likely choice.

Yeah Nick are known to usually sit on their IP's rather than selling them. Plus doesn't Viacom have an exclusive deal multi year deal with Amazon or something so as you said it would most likely pop up on Amazon if an online series was to be created. Which is not that bad an option as Amazon's recent original shows have been getting really good of late and I would be quite curious to see how a avatar show not restricted by the 7+ rating would be like.
Also not having Nick mess with the show is always a positive.
 

Lethe82

Banned
If that's the case most of their tech took about an episode for them to figure out how to defeat. Would explain why the newer mech suits that Kuvira used ran off electricity.

To be fair they were going up against some of the better benders in the world, and the Avatar, they did perfectly fine in the basement when they were 6 mechs versus 8 benders including Tenzin and Korra.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQhJj7r29o8

And the march of progress was relentless, the models in Season 4 were much improved.
 
To be fair they were going up against some of the better benders in the world, and the Avatar, they did perfectly fine in the basement when they were 6 mechs versus 8 benders including Tenzin and Korra.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQhJj7r29o8

And the march of progress was relentless, the models in Season 4 were much improved.
In that basement they had numbers, spacing working for them and Korra didn't even have access to water down there. Why she never carried around a water canteen like Katara or Unalaq did I'll never understand. As far as I'm concerned it was pretty much 6 mechs vs 3 benders. The metal police are just the special forces members from an episode of 24 as far as I'm concerned. Technological progress was going at light speed in Korra though. Technology was always bound to catch up and surpass benders though.
 
SO I'm left hungry for new animation, now that Korra has ended. There was a lot of discussion about Sword Art Online, so I decided to try.

NOPE.
Seriously, Fuck this anime so hard.
I should just marathon all of Avatar...

I must be one of the few people to genuinely like that show lol
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
SO I'm left hungry for new animation, now that Korra has ended. There was a lot of discussion about Sword Art Online, so I decided to try.

tumblr_nctgkaWGoK1sdv4s4o2_250.gif


tumblr_nctgkaWGoK1sdv4s4o1_250.gif



NOPE.
Seriously, Fuck this anime so hard.
I should just marathon all of Avatar...

Ah, somebody should have pressed you to watch Log Horizon instead.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
I heard SAO is shit. What's Log Horizon like? Maybe Baroness should watch Horizon In the Middle of Nowhere?

I do not know what that show is like, but Log Horizon I do know. Some people will call Log Hoirzon, Sword Art Online only good, but that is only part of it. This show actually gets what it means to be trapped in a MMORPG world, if you have played MMORPGS, this anime will remind you of those and maky you want to play again, I have seen this occur. Still, you come for that and you stay for the brilliant characterization and world building as this series asks this question. What would happen if we cast what is basically David Xanatos as the protagonist? Do I have your attention yet?
 
I do not know what that show is like, but Log Horizon I do know. Some people will call Log Hoirzon, Sword Art Online only good, but that is only part of it. This show actually gets what it means to be trapped in a MMORPG world, if you have played MMORPGS, this anime will remind you of those and maky you want to play again, I have seen this occur. Still, you come for that and you stay for the brilliant characterization and world building as this series asks this question. What would happen if we cast what is basically David Xanatos as the protagonist? Do I have your attention yet?
Xanatos is a hilariously uber prepped villain, so that premise sounds interesting. Interesting enough art style. I'll see if I can find the time for it. Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere is fantasy, but the story of it isn't that great. It's sort of a fantasy futuristic medieval fashion with a story that I really just can't remember. It involves trying to find the lost emotions of this doll that's the reincarnation of this woman he used to like. The main character reminds me of the blonde dude from Ouran High School Host club. High taste this thing is not.
 

Lethe82

Banned
In that basement they had numbers, spacing working for them and Korra didn't even have access to water down there. Why she never carried around a water canteen like Katara or Unalaq did I'll never understand. As far as I'm concerned it was pretty much 6 mechs vs 3 benders. The metal police are just the special forces members from an episode of 24 as far as I'm concerned. Technological progress was going at light speed in Korra though. Technology was always bound to catch up and surpass benders though.

Eh, I still think that even the season 1 tech level of the equalists was a significant threat, not everyone is some top tier bender like the majority of the cast, and given the right organizational structure and tactics they could have pacified the major threats before things really kicked into high gear. I mean they attempted to poorly but what can you do. The Benders basically needed the UN to come in and save their asses from a local uprising.
 
Eh, I still think that even the season 1 tech level of the equalists was a significant threat, not everyone is some top tier bender like the majority of the cast, and given the right organizational structure and tactics they could have pacified the major threats before things really kicked into high gear. I mean they attempted to poorly but what can you do. The Benders basically needed the UN to come in and save their asses from a local uprising.
This I'm not doubting. The Equalists had superiority in numbers and they seized the city through guerrilla ambushes and cutting of the head of logistics by capturing the senators. This gave time for their main forces to come in. Even when the UN came they were initially out matched by the Equalist air forces. It took a lot to pacify the Equalists and having Amon unravel was the biggest key in having that happen. If Amon was actually still important or had they not based their organization around the ideals of a phony than that Equalists would've been a threat for awhile.
 

Lethe82

Banned
So I get the sense now that you mean 'threat' sort of as in the various X-Men stories and alternate futures where Sentinels were basically putting benders into hiding or on the run, kind of thing. Is that more what you were meaning?

I wish they had at least carried forward the ideological schism and conflict that the Equalists presented. It was completely ignored following Book 1.

EDIT: Haha yeah pretty much all of this.

Very disappointing indeed. The concept of how powerless a non-bender can be compared to a bender was one of the best and logical questions to pursue right after watching A:TLA.

At first it annoyed me how privileged some benders were about their powers, especially Korra at the end of Book 1, but I think I can see where they come from as far as the spiritualism goes.

I do think it would've been completely baller for a character to give up their powers for a reason bigger than them, or for someone like in a show I have mentioned countless time in this thread but won't repeat due to spoilers.

Yeah, that's the thing. This is why I often bring up how AtLA has the beginning stages of the writing problems that prove to be Legend of Korra's largest issues.

Ultimately, the bender-nonbender "conflict" is basically about power. The driving force of the entire Avatar franchise is understanding and utilizing power. Bending is power, the Avatar is power. But neither show, not even AtLA, really respected the concept of power.

AtLA addresses head on the very topic that would go on to become LoK's season one theme: how benders are much, much more powerful than non-benders. And Sokka's conclusion in the episode is solely contained to his perspective, and doesn't at all speak to the wider situation of the power a bender wields in comparison to his or her nonbending peers.

The writers of AtLA explicitly looked this particular plot point in the eye, and ignored it in the exact same manner that LoK did. By the end of Book Fire, benders are flying and shooting one hundred foot tall flames out of their hands, while Sokka's moonsword (the physical takeaway of him making peace with his nonbender status) goes spiraling away uselessly during a life and death confrontation. Master Piandao takes out a few dudes while Jeong Jeong takes out an entire battalion.

They even bring Sokka back as a flashback in the LoK to talk about all the awesome and crazy shit benders can do, right before a guy solos an entire room of the most powerful people in the world without lifting a finger.

It's all the same thing. I would have preferred they not bring the issue up at all if they were going to blatantly ignore its thematic feasibility. It's easiest to swallow in AtLA because it wasn't a developed thought, and the characters in that series were so rock solid that there's a lot of good to fall back on. But the LoK made power (inequality in particular) its major theme, and tossed it in the bushes; all without having great characters to cushion the fall.

This particular misstep is a franchise staple.

It's even worse when you think about the fact that it's never brought up again in the entire show. You'd think you would still come across mistreatment of non-benders and such but they either get airbending or are totally cool that everyone around them have superpowers and they're the rest of the world's bitch.

A large appeal of the show is seeing cool shit done with bending, so you can't honestly take that away. But exploring the idea of power under this particular context (literal superhumans) would have been grand. Comics have been chipping away at this topic - mostly without success - for decades.

Yep. While I love Season 3, Korra would have been a much more interesting show if the nonbender dilemma was actually treated with the respect and attention such a plot point deserves.

It would've been a rather simple thing to do to roll all the elements of the show into a clear resolution that makes sense with respect to the established universe, especially with energybending. Then you look at Zaheer, a nonbender who attains bending, and the dots line up even more.

So many ways they could have went with this topic that would have benefited the plot and especially Korra's characterization. Themes like inheritance, duty, and dealing with change are bolstered as a bonus.
 
I wish they had at least carried forward the ideological schism and conflict that the Equalists presented. It was completely ignored following Book 1.
They just became ranting tea drinking mercenary beatnicks after Book 1. The only thing with the Sentinels is that they were putting people in death camps that even had the potential to be mutants. If the Equalists were going to start behaving like that then they weren't operating to really benefit anyone. When they took Republic City they were also putting the lives of nonbenders at risk as well. Yes the bending council really did treat nonbenders like second class citizens, but had they not been corrupt or highly influenced by crooked Tarlock the system could've actually worked better had they incorporated a non bender or two in the the decision process. Eventually they scrapped the council and elected Raiko, but half the time that mans decision making was fucked beyond repair. I'm probably way off the topic with this, but the all or one method they chose to use as a governing structure never exactly fixed either problem, just gave rise to various different ones.
 

Lethe82

Banned
I do need to get the game even if it doesn't look all that impressive. Nick responded to Platinum by saying 'OK, you have no manpower, no budget, and no time to make the game, GO!'.
 
The Equalists are in the game. I haven't finished it so I don't know how it plays out. But they didn't just vanish after Amon went down.

Well
it doesn't really go anywhere interesting with it tbh. Even the main villain makes fun of how easy they were to persuade to help him.
 
I do need to get the game even if it doesn't look all that impressive. Nick responded to Platinum by saying 'OK, you have no manpower, no budget, and no time to make the game, GO!'.

It turned out pretty well in my opinion. I'd give it a C+. For the price you can't go wrong.
 

Daemul

Member
One of these days you guys are going to take it too far.

This place is actually extremely restrained compared to what I've seen from other forums lol. In other forums I go to, namely sports related one's where mods are very lenient(lol), you would be seeing a lot more explicit stuff from posters, usually pictures of very scantily dressed women.

There was one point where on one of the forums, the admin had to start reigning some posters in, because the site was close to being listed as one of an adult nature by Google. Even though no one actually posted porn like material(we did, surprisingly, control ourselves lol), the images that were posted were seen as explicit enough to be not suitable for all ages.

KorraGAF won't reach that point. I hope lol.

Why is Korrasami less frowned upon than Kuvorra?

I personally don't mind Kuvorra, but for some people, since Korra and Asami are an official couple, shipping them with anyone else rubs them the wrong way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom