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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011

H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Best way to kill any Bokoblin outside of a small room is to run, L-target, jump and air slash, than fatal blow. They usually never even see it coming.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
As was suggested earlier in the thread, I found that the easiest way to fight Bokoblins is to raise your shield and then attack where their weapon isn't. The shield blocks their line of sight, so they won't quickly block you, and you can usually get in three solid hits - enough to kill them - in no time at all.
 
0

06nbarnhill

Member
Branduil said:
I don't really see the complaints about the first two dungeons.

Dungeon #1: better than the first dungeons in OoT and TP.

Dungeon #2: better than the second dungeons in OoT and TP.

You can make a case for the first two dungeons in WW being better, though I think that's debatable. MM has the best first two dungeons, but that's not exactly comparable. In any case they're hardly a step down from the usual Zelda greatness.
Click to expand...

Not going to comment on Dungeon 2 since just starting it.

However.......TP's first dungeon was massive and satisfying. SS's first is an intro half dungeon. Imo TP's first is miles ahead.

(I know its taboo to ever say anything good about TP....but at this point in the game 10 hours in....spending a lot of time just exploring skyloft and doing quests/gathering....I prefer TP's dungeons, characters (esp midna), and world more.)
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Kaijima said:
On the subject of subjectivity and padding in this game, I could offer this.

People are quick to call anything they find uninteresting "padding". I do wonder what definition of padding they have.

I define padding as Donkey Kong 64; creating collectibles for the sake of making busy work and a time sink to distract players from the fact that the game is lacking legitimate content.

It seems most of the various side quests and such in SS relate to tangible rewards - like improving gear. You may or may not find that boring to do, but I wouldn't call it "padding". It's a specific reward with a challenge attached to it. The Silent Realm stuff reminds me of the Dark Aether sequences in Metroid Prime 2... some people called that "padding" as well, but it was stuff that did advance the exploration and theme. The fact that the activity was split into several iterations across the game was thematic and not arbitrary (in both games).

I think what bothers some, is when someone calls a game mechanic that they merely don't like inherently bad, or pointless.
Click to expand...

So wrong.

Games like Donkey Kong 64 are designed for collecting. Here's the world: now find golden bananas, bananas, coins, blueprints etc. If you're expecting anything other than collecting, you're playing the wrong game. It is not padding, because that's what the whole game is about.

In games like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, I'm not here to go on collectathons. Previous Zeldas have never had collectathons like this. Between dungeons, they take a familiar area, change the colors on you, and tell you to find 20 of x. That is padding.

In Majora's Mask, between dungeons, I navigated my way through the Deku Palace, followed the soul of a dead Goron, learned a song to make a baby stop crying, found zora eggs (see! It's okay to do it once and when it's introducing new areas in the game!)... and the list goes on. There was no padding in Ocarina or Majora. Not sure what happened with TP and SS.
 
R

Roto13

Member
I'm avoiding spoilers so I haven't read anything in this thread, so forgive me if this is the kind of question that's answered ten times per page. :p But this happened. I just finished the second dungeon.

I was dicking around in the air and flew up as high as I could and dropped off my bird and started falling towards a (particularly low) random island. As I got closer, some colourful birds appeared. I steered towards them and grabbed onto them and we formed a skydiving circle. They flew away before I hit the ground. I tried it again and this time called my bird before they let go, and they just flew off in every direction again. Do those things do anything, or are they just a fun little easter egg?
 
B

Branduil

Member
06nbarnhill said:
Not going to comment on Dungeon 2 since just starting it.

However.......TP's first dungeon was massive and satisfying. SS's first is an intro half dungeon. Imo TP's first is miles ahead.

(I know its taboo to every say anything good about TP....but at this point in the game 10 hours in....spending a lot of time just exploring skyloft and doing quests/gathering....I prefer TP's dungeons, characters (esp midna), and world more.)
Click to expand...

TP has some of the best dungeons in the series, but I never felt like the first one was one of them. It's longer, yes, but
I had more fun in the Skyview Temple with the boss fights, the Beetle, etc.

The first temple in TP had lame boss fights.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Temple 3 was fun, but nothing special imo. Also the boss was maybe the easiest yet... Didn't take a single hit. I almost expected the dungeon to continue after the disappointing bossfight... Temples are super linear.

The story section after the temple was epic.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Branduil said:
I don't really see the complaints about the first two dungeons.

Dungeon #1: better than the first dungeons in OoT and TP.

Dungeon #2: better than the second dungeons in OoT and TP.

You can make a case for the first two dungeons in WW being better, though I think that's debatable. MM has the best first two dungeons, but that's not exactly comparable. In any case they're hardly a step down from the usual Zelda greatness.
Click to expand...

Definitely. I'm not understanding where all the hate for the first two dungeons is coming from. They were pretty good for what they were, I think.
 
H

Hero

Member
Anth0ny said:
So wrong.

Games like Donkey Kong 64 are designed for collecting. Here's the world: now find golden bananas, bananas, coins, blueprints etc. If you're expecting anything other than collecting, you're playing the wrong game. It is not padding, because that's what the whole game is about.

In games like Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, I'm not here to go on collectathons. Previous Zeldas have never had collectathons like this. Between dungeons, they take a familiar area, change the colors on you, and tell you to find 20 of x. That is padding.

In Majora's Mask, between dungeons, I navigated my way through the Deku Palace, followed the soul of a dead Goron, learned a song to make a baby stop crying, found zora eggs (see! It's okay to do it once and when it's introducing new areas in the game!)... and the list goes on. There was no padding in Ocarina or Majora. Not sure what happened with TP and SS.
Click to expand...

Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? If you even played Skyward Sword you would know it's 15 of something and only takes about 10 minutes each time if you're even a half competent video game player. The only "collect-a-thon" in the game that is legitimately a complaint is the tadpole mission.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Hero said:
Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? If you even played Skyward Sword you would know it's 15 of something and only takes about 10 minutes each time if you're even a half competent video game player. The only "collect-a-thon" in the game that is legitimately a complaint is the tadpole mission.
Click to expand...

10 boring minutes

times

4, and then we get the tadpoles which took far more than 10 minutes

It's still padding whether you liked it or not. Honestly, I didn't hate it, I just expect more from team Zelda. Especially after 5 years.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
The second one certainly wasn't boring.

Hitting the Waking Water next to the cart made me nearly jump out of my skin, and after a frantic search for another tear (since the one I was at required pushing the cart) I had to scramble back to the starting circle with nearly every Guardian on my ass. I actually ran out of stamina and just barely crawled over the line right as they were behind me and about to swing.

That and DUSK RELICS GIVE ME
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Woot, did the
desert
trial on first attempt, so definitely not 10 minutes. Wasn't so bad after all. Worried about the next one if it's much harder but oh well, I'll find out soon enough. New item get and new places to go to is what matters now, loving this game so much ^_^
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
game text scroll speed needs to be way faster that is for sure.

gripes:
skyloft is nice and the areas below are nice but the flying is worthless. it is simply a stupidly slow hub. if the flying was directly integrated (meaning you could fly anywhere and skydive anywhere it would be awesome)

forced linear gameplay. areas cut off for exploration so that you achieve one specific conversation or task before hand is just ridiculous. this is a by product of bad game design that forces devs to hold hands so that players dont get lost about what to do next. solution? dont force them to do very specific arbitrary things for progression.
 
M

Majora

Member
I genuinely don't class those areas you guys are talking about as padding. Padding is that awful 20-30 minute collectathon. Anyone who's gotten that far will know what I'm talking about. It's mindless tedium. The difference with those other areas where you collect stuff is that you have to engage with what's going on, use your knowledge of the area to be efficient, watch your time. I enjoyed every one of them, they're tense and short. It's the mechanics that are added that stop them bring mindless collect-em-ups like DK64 or the tear collecting in TP. And the area reuse is deliberate. They would be unfair if they were brand new areas.

Anyway, dungeon 7 is very clever. Took me a while to figure out what was going on.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
In the pre-dungeon 2 area...

I'm trying to get the 4th key piece. I figure I need to "bowl" to get it, but even when I curve my shot, it still doesn't reach the rocks in time.
 
S

Slurpy2k20

Member
zoukka said:
Temple 3 was fun, but nothing special imo. Also the boss was maybe the easiest yet... Didn't take a single hit. I almost expected the dungeon to continue after the disappointing bossfight... Temples are super linear.

The story section after the temple was epic.
Click to expand...

The next boss will humble you.
 
H

Hero

Member
Anth0ny said:
10 boring minutes

times

4, and then we get the tadpoles which took far more than 10 minutes

It's still padding whether you liked it or not. Honestly, I didn't hate it, I just expect more from team Zelda. Especially after 5 years.
Click to expand...

It's padding to you because you seemingly have a really extreme definition of padding. Considering it made sense for the storyline and it was challenging in the aspect that you had a time limitation and it was possible to fail I don't consider it padding. The tadpole thing is the only padding I consider legitimate since it was stupid in every context and took up far too much time.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Some quick thoughts about certain items/gadgets obtained throughout the game...

I can't help but be disappointed by the dual clawshots and gust bellows.
The clawshots lost the ability to lower the chain which limits its potential puzzle use and it gains nothing in return, still better than a single hook/claw shot at least.
The Gust Bellows felt lacking after the Gust Jar, Deku leaf and even that fan thing from spirit tracks that have similar functions, a shame since the Gust Jar is one of my favourite items. Like the Clawshots the Gust Bellows don't really gain much over its similar predecessors, it's used for blowing certain switches like the deku leaf and removing dirt like the gust jar but not much else. Feels more like the duller parts of Luigi's Mansion at times.

On a more positive note this game is the only zelda where i've actually enjoyed using the bombs and slingshot (bar the FSA powered up versions of said items). Rolling bombs is the games most unsung great new approaches to an item, plus you can blow up those big Chu-Chus in one hit with them which is useful when the electric ones start popping up. The slingshots arcing shots and scattershot upgrade are nice and it takes a while to get replaced by the bow meaning you actually get a fair bit of use from it.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
I'm kinda stuck, pre-dungeon 3:
Trying to activate the power to go in the mining facility so I can get to the temple of time, did the first generator and the second one is inside a room, Fii tells me I need a power source of some sort to open the door and get in the room with the switch, what Am I supposed to do?
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
ivysaur12 said:
In the pre-dungeon 2 area...

I'm trying to get the 4th key piece. I figure I need to "bowl" to get it, but even when I curve my shot, it still doesn't reach the rocks in time.
Click to expand...

That part confused me, too. You're going about it the wrong way. That rock is an exit, not an entrance.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Anth0ny said:
So wrong.

Games like Donkey Kong 64 are designed for collecting. Here's the world: now find golden bananas, bananas, coins, blueprints etc. If you're expecting anything other than collecting, you're playing the wrong game. It is not padding, because that's what the whole game is about.
Click to expand...

Donkey Kong 64 is the standard bearer for pointless padded collectathons that don't even belong in games about collecting - to the point Rare themselves mocked it (and their other padded collectathon games) in that Banjo-In-A-Car game.

The sequences in question in SS are, to be entirely fair, similar in some concept to the tears of light in TP. Though another facet of this is that whether something turns into unnecessary padding can depend on where you place it in the game and the context.

People hate the tear collecting in TP because it dragged out the wolf stuff even further, starting from the very beginning of the game too, and long over stayed its welcome.

The Silent Realm stuff in this game, while similar in a broad category, is brief and spaced out as moments along the timeline in a very long game. It's also a play mechanic of its own, which I feel is important. It's not just stopping normal progression and saying "go pick up these 20 widgets in a scavenger hunt without so much as an interesting play mechanic to reward you for the effort." The whole concept behind the Silent sections is its own gameplay mode.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Theonik said:
I'm kinda stuck, pre-dungeon 3:
Trying to activate the power to go in the mining facility, did the first generator and the second one is inside a room, Fii tells me I need a power source of some sort to open the door and get in the room with the switch, what Am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...

Hint:
There are things in the room that hurt Link if he touches them, so use them without touching them.

More obvious directions:
Use the beetle to get the baby-hermits to the wall switch. Stand on the switch, get them inside the little box-area, and voila.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Kaijima said:
Donkey Kong 64 is the standard bearer for pointless padded collectathons that don't even belong in games about collecting - to the point Rare themselves mocked it (and their other padded collectathon games) in that Banjo-In-A-Car game.

The sequences in question in SS are, to be entirely fair, similar in some concept to the tears of light in TP. Though another facet of this is that whether something turns into unnecessary padding can depend on where you place it in the game and the context.

People hate the tear collecting in TP because it dragged out the wolf stuff even further, starting from the very beginning of the game too, and long over stayed its welcome.

The Silent Realm stuff in this game, while similar in a broad category, is brief and spaced out as moments along the timeline in a very long game. It's also a play mechanic of its own, which I feel is important. It's not just stopping normal progression and saying "go pick up these 20 widgets in a scavenger hunt without so much as an interesting play mechanic to reward you for the effort." The whole concept behind the Silent sections is its own gameplay mode.
Click to expand...

meh

I'll admit
the speed of the statues caught me off the guard the first time I accidentally stepped in water, but when I realized they chill the fuck out as soon as I touched another tear... the segments stopped doing anything for me.

And I still disagree with what you say about Donkey Kong 64. I had a blast with that game. I loved the worlds and the gameplay (N64-era Rare ain't nothing to fuck with), so I wanted to explore and collect as much as possible. But there is no way in hell I'm winning this argument, GAF fucking hates that game.

Again, I point it back to Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time. They managed to do fun things between dungeons, without resorting to taking an area previously explored, changing the colors, and making you collect things.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Oh, one thing I didn't like is the game automatically throwing me out of a dungeon or whatever after achieving something... I had spotted some blessed butterflies there, damnit! I'm not gonna go through the dungeon again just for that so you made me lose them! Why not just do the good ol portal to the surface thing, allowing you to stay there and enter when you want... Still, I'm glad all the issues I have with it are so minor ^_^
 
Xane

Xane

Member
Neoriceisgood said:
QUESTION ABOUT MEDALS

Does the cursed medal prevent you from using other medals as well? This isn't clear to me.
Click to expand...

What? You don't "use" the medals, all their effects are passive. The only negative effect of the Cursed Medal is that you can't open your Adventure Pouch anymore. Any passive bonus is still active (Fairies too, I think).
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
When I was a kid, I collected everything in Donkey Kong 64.

Let me say that again, in case you didn't catch that.

I collected EVERYTHING IN DONKEY KONG 64

Every colored banana, every Golden banana, every blueprint, banana medal, banana fairy, potion, battle crown, Rare/Nintendo coin, boss key, and maxed out the orange grenades, crystal coconuts, ammo for the various monkeys, ammo for the instruments, etc. EVERYTHING. I stood outside DK Isle and was like, "FUCK YOU RARE I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING YOU ASKED"

To this day, I have no idea why young ViewtifulJC was so bored and compelled to do this. Flash forward ten years and you ask me to stop what I'm doing to collect Dohickeys for arbtrary plot reasons for 10 minutes, I'm annoyed. And DK64 was just...that's all it was, ya know? The series reached the peak between platforming and collecting with DKC2, then it gave you TOO much crap in DKC3 but the platforming engine was still there. Now, with DK64, that didn't even have that. It just tosses more and more junk for you to find. And I did. ALL OF IT.

FUCK Donkey Kong 64 for everything its done to me.

*ahem* THAT said, the
Silent Realm
thing uh...wasn't that bad! I thought "collectathon" + "stealth" was gonna be the worst thing on Earth, so it helped to have low expectations.
 
V

vas_a_morir

Banned
You know what? I used to always collect 100% of items in those 3d Mario 64-style collectathons... but that game made me walk away without collecting what felt like half the stuff there was to collect. That game was annoying even back then for me. After Banjo-Kazooie, it was a sub-par effort.
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
Anth0ny said:
meh

I'll admit
the speed of the statues caught me off the guard the first time I accidentally stepped in water, but when I realized they chill the fuck out as soon as I touched another tear... the segments stopped doing anything for me.

And I still disagree with what you say about Donkey Kong 64. I had a blast with that game. I loved the worlds and the gameplay (N64-era Rare ain't nothing to fuck with), so I wanted to explore and collect as much as possible. But there is no way in hell I'm winning this argument, GAF fucking hates that game.

Again, I point it back to Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time. They managed to do fun things between dungeons, without resorting to taking an area previously explored, changing the colors, and making you collect things.
Click to expand...

I'll agree one or two certain areas of the game felt like padding but I didn't feel the Silent Realm was it at all. Personally speaking, I much prefer SS' overworld style. There is so much you can do and collect in the game. Having to go back through an area doesn't fell like a chore to me because there is a lot of other things I have to do as well. On top of that the area usually gets repopulated with new enemies and other areas are accessible that you previously couldn't access as well as warp statues all over the place. Unlike Ocarina and Majora which had a fair amount of dead space and when having to travel through the same areas there was typically not as much to do.

People constantly reference the Metroid series(In particular Metroid Prime and Super Metroid) with this style of traversal but to be completely honest this system is much better. In the Metroid games there was very little to do once you completed a room, the same enemies constantly respawned and there wasn't really an easy way to avoid massive amounts of backtracking. I love the Metroid series but I'm often befuddled at the holy grail Metroid Prime is held on for those simple reasons..

I also really don't understand how one could knock the Silent Realm but defend DK64 in the same post.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
When I was a kid, I collected everything in Donkey Kong 64.

Let me say that again, in case you didn't catch that.

I collected EVERYTHING IN DONKEY KONG 64
Click to expand...

Hey at least we got an extra ending out of it though right? clearly worth the effort.
I could never do it again!
I still think JFG did it worse by requiring all the tribals to actually finish the game, I collected everything in all of those Rare N64 games but JFG will remain uncompleted.

Now to tie things back into Zelda
the silent realm is pretty good
, it does what TP/PH/ST wanted to do with stealth and tears, it's good that they got there in the end even if I had to suffer for it in the past 3 games.
 
V

vas_a_morir

Banned
Nocturnowl said:
Hey at least we got an extra ending out of it though right? clearly worth the effort.
I could never do it again!
I still think JFG did it worse by requiring all the tribals to actually finish the game, I collected everything in all of those Rare N64 games but JFG will remain uncompleted.

Now to tie things back into Zelda
the silent realm is pretty good
, it does what TP/PH/ST wanted to do with stealth and tears, it's good that they got there in the end even if I had to suffer for it in the past 3 games.
Click to expand...

What does JFG stand for?
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Going to talk a bit of sacrilege.

They missed their perfect opportunity to give Link some dialogue.

When Demise curses them and their descendants, Link could have done a badass "and we will alwyas defeat you" line. Would have been epic.
 
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