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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011

The Lamp

Member
As far as complexity goes, I think they are tied really, just different approaches to a dungeon design.

I'm just so happy TP is getting some praise now, about time!

EDIT: Also I disagree about the first 3 dungeons in TP being better, in all honesty I think they are about equal. (lakebed tample was outstanding though).

Lakebed doesn't hold a candle to OoT or MM water temple. It was really easy and just involved hitting some switches to fill up the main room. At least it was gorgeous and gave the clawshot some love, though. The final boss was all kinds of wonderful, however.

I for one like Wind Waker's temples more than TP, even though they were unbearably easy, just because they tried new things (and I'm weird, I liked the stealth in Forsaken Fortress) and even let you double-team a dungeon with a second character.
 

Mistle

Member
[Nintex];32962423 said:
Nope, SS and TP are two totally different games with different goals in mind and in that sense I expect Zelda Wii U to be quite different from these two as well.
True, but it's also a similar situation to many people declaring love for WW only after playing TP, when these two games are also very different.
 

ASIS

Member
Lakebed doesn't hold a candle to OoT or MM water temple. It was really easy and just involved hitting some switches to fill up the main room. At least it was gorgeous and gave the clawshot some love, though. The final boss was all kinds of wonderful, however.

I for one like Wind Waker's temples more than TP, even though they were unbearably easy, just because they tried new things (and I'm weird, I liked the stealth in Forsaken Fortress) and even let you double-team a dungeon with a second character.

It wasn't very easy, especially navigating your way through the first instant you walk in the dungeon (you have like what? 4 doors?). It was insanely fun. Absolutely incredible artstyle, amazing boss and mini boss.

Nah that dungeon was boss.
 

[Nintex]

Member
It's fine, I just want to know exactly where you stand. And yes, with every game I played I always thought "if they only made this". Zelda is no different I guess.

BTW, you guys know how the Zelda cycle runs right? Well I think it's hitting me in a very weird order. When TP came out I realized that MM was actually my favorite game.. now that SS is out.. WW is beginning to top it :/

They're all great games so the Zelda cycle usually depends on what Zelda you're currently playing. When I'm dowsing for shit I feel like I'd rather have an epic fight as a build-up to a temple(TP, Arbiters Ground) than a fetch quest. When I'm bringing back bugs to Agitha in TP I think of all the great Majora's Mask quests that made me care. When I'm driving my train along the tracks in Spirit Tracks I start to wonder why I can't just set sail to where I want to go and explore interesting new places.
 
Lakebed doesn't hold a candle to OoT or MM water temple. It was really easy and just involved hitting some switches to fill up the main room. At least it was gorgeous and gave the clawshot some love, though. The final boss was all kinds of wonderful, however.

I for one like Wind Waker's temples more than TP, even though they were unbearably easy, just because they tried new things (and I'm weird, I liked the stealth in Forsaken Fortress) and even let you double-team a dungeon with a second character.

Very much disagree with MM's water temple. It was an interesting concept but not that much fun to play, imo. You're also comparing TP's 3rd dungeon to OoT's 6th dungeon. Imo, SS' water dungeon is the best 3D one yet and blows the others out of the water.
 

The Lamp

Member
It wasn't very easy, especially navigating your way through the first instant you walk in the dungeon (you have like what? 4 doors?). It was insanely fun. Absolutely incredible artstyle, amazing boss and mini boss.

Nah that dungeon was boss.


You have 4 doors and 3 of them you can't go through or go very far with....lol. It was very linear.
 

ASIS

Member
[Nintex];32962540 said:
They're all great games so the Zelda cycle usually depends on what Zelda you're currently playing. When I'm dowsing for shit I feel like I'd rather have an epic fight as a build-up to a temple(TP, Arbiters Ground) than a fetch quest. When I'm bringing back bugs to Agitha in TP I think of all the great Majora's Mask quests that made me care. When I'm driving my train along the tracks in Spirit Tracks I start to wonder why I can't just set sail to where I want to go and explore interesting new places.

Boss fights are god tier in this game though.

specifically the last two fights. My god they were orgasmic.
 

teeny

Member
On another note, I feel that the Zelda Team need to take a leaf out of the Galaxy team's book. The galaxy games were Mario distilled to its essence and rebuilt. They picked things that made sense to the game they were trying to make, and experimented with the rest.

Zelda has always had a certain level of bloat, included only because they are series staples. They also feel like they could always do a lot more, to whatever capacity, and I think that may be down to the team not really settling on what to put into the game.

I remember reading how the fishing hole in Ocarina was made outside of the design scope, and then popped in later when they realised it was really fun. Sure, fishing has been in Zelda before Ocarina, but they let a developer do that, and it added another minigame to the title. Can that even happen in the Zelda team's current environment? Can a developer dick about and add something in because it is fun? Probably not - the team seems too preoccupied with thinking too much.

I would really love a "reset" topdown 3DS title that acts the same way Super Mario 3D Land does for the franchise. ie, it acts as the missing link between ALttP and Ocarina.
 
Those arseholes drained all but one heart of my health first time I found them. I thought my shield wouldn't be able to protect me from their electricity. FML

If you have one of the iron shields, then no they won't. Otherwise, yeah. It's really satisfying to come back with a different kind and then kick their ass.
 

ASIS

Member
You have 4 doors and 3 of them you can't go through or go very far with....lol. It was very linear.

Yeah I know, but it didn't feel linear at all when i actually played it the first time.

---

And WTF is the water dungeon supposed to be in SS? If you're thinking about that dungeon I'm sorry I just don't see it. To me I felt like it was a mesh between Buddha and satan rather than water :p
 

zethren

Banned
That bit made me wtf and laugh at the same time. Not expected in a Zelda game. The slowed, creeping text made it.

Hahaha, yeah I loved that little textual detail. This game is doing a nicely convincing job of portraying youthful love. I also really like this iteration of Link so far. Going back to brown hair is nice (pretty sure I know why too, don't know if it's considered spoiler though), and his personality is interesting when it shows through.

Music is awesome, visuals are really fun, and I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying the controls. Just about done with the tutorial stuff I think, and really enjoying it so far.
 

The Lamp

Member
Arguing about this just reminds me how much I love this series in general. I love them all!
except Spirit Tracks
<3 Even though they're all so different. I replay them every once in a while and they all feel so different from each other yet I know what to expect.

I think I'm going to remember SS for how interesting it made exploration and combat above all else.
 

ASIS

Member
Arguing about this just reminds me how much I love this series in general. I love them all!
except Spirit Tracks
<3 Even though they're all so different. I replay them every once in a while and they all feel so different from each other yet I know what to expect.

I think I'm going to remember SS for how interesting it made exploration and combat above all else.

ST was one of the finest games of its year as well as one of the best in the DS library.

COME AT ME GAF! Trash PH all you want, ST, though, I loved.
 

[Nintex]

Member
It's fine, I just want to know exactly where you stand. And yes, with every game I played I always thought "if they only made this". Zelda is no different I guess.

BTW, you guys know how the Zelda cycle runs right? Well I think it's hitting me in a very weird order. When TP came out I realized that MM was actually my favorite game.. now that SS is out.. WW is beginning to top it :/

On another note, I feel that the Zelda Team need to take a leaf out of the Galaxy team's book. The galaxy games were Mario distilled to its essence and rebuilt. They picked things that made sense to the game they were trying to make, and experimented with the rest.

Zelda has always had a certain level of bloat, included only because they are series staples. They also feel like they could always do a lot more, to whatever capacity, and I think that may be down to the team not really settling on what to put into the game.

I remember reading how the fishing hole in Ocarina was made outside of the design scope, and then popped in later when they realised it was really fun. Sure, fishing has been in Zelda before Ocarina, but they let a developer do that, and it added another minigame to the title. Can that even happen in the Zelda team's current environment? Can a developer dick about and add something in because it is fun? Probably not - the team seems too preoccupied with thinking too much.

I would really love a "reset" topdown 3DS title that acts the same way Super Mario 3D Land does for the franchise. ie, it acts as the missing link between ALttP and Ocarina.

Read the Iwata Asks on this game, they even have a tool so that planners and designers can just put in stuff themselves without the need of a programmer. This also explains why the landmass doesn't feel 'natural' I think. They talk about this rather shortly but the landmass designers would have to keep up with the changes the design team made. They had to redo or add a bunch of stuff because a designer had been busy putting in fun elements. That's also the reason why the game is so dense, little got lost in the debugging process.

The problem with this Zelda is that all these elements just don't feel connected. The area's were made by seperate teams and they've done a great job putting it together but some things still don't fit. To me the first province is what a 2D Zelda would be like in 3D, the second province is pretty much Twilight Princess with a new coat of paint and the third province is where the magic happens and many new ideas were added as well as revisited from previous games. Skyloft pretty much steps in to make up for the lack of towns and sidequests in the world. The risk with this approach is however that the game tends to get boring at times. The pacing is off in some places because the sidequest or character that would've added some variety is stuck in Skyloft in the sequence of sidequests. At the same time the sidequests aren't that interesting because the locales don't change much. It's a design decision that left me stunned.
 
i feel like im the only one that never succumbed to the "zelda cycle". loved wind waker when it came out, loved twilight princess, and now skyward sword, even though im only 3 dungeons in, i can say its my favorite zelda game ever

ive never disliked a zelda game, each has been incredible for me. i just like some better than the rest. i would probably put SS on top, with OoT and links awakening below for nostalgia purposes. minish cap was also surprisngly amazing


Oh man

I just finished dungeon 3

Oh man

dude,
theres no time to admire it!!!
 

Cosmozone

Member
At the first third(?) of the third dungeon now. Finally good dungeon music again since OoT. I'm not so fond about those cling-clang-clong ambient themes. Took me a while (and hearts) to figure out how to take out the
lasers
. That's a feature I continue to like very much. Enemy types are small little puzzles on their own.

That pre-dungeon area was huge (and has a great key mechanic). It's a pretty big change, making all those areas feel like a dungeon themselves. I'm enjoying it but I think I don't want that in the long term. Next Zelda should have a traditional overworld again (minus the tunnels between areas).

I don't have many troubles with motion controls. Tight rope walking was the easiest thing ever.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
i feel like im the only one that never succumbed to the "zelda cycle". loved wind waker when it came out, loved twilight princess, and now skyward sword, even though im only 3 dungeons in, i can say its my favorite zelda game ever

ive never disliked a zelda game, each has been incredible for me. i just like some better than the rest. i would probably put SS on top, with OoT and links awakening below for nostalgia purposes. minish cap was also surprisngly amazing




dude,
theres no time to admire it!!!

I think people get too hung up on ranking all the titles immediately after beating a new one. It takes time to have it all sink in, replays etc. also contribute. The only zelda game I pretty much didn't like was Majora's Mask, when I first tried it. Coming off the coattails of OoT, I was immediately like WTF is this? The time mechanic was so weird to me, I had to turn it back right after I beat the first dungeon, saw that the boss was back and thought the game somehow forgot I cleared it, stuff like that. I missed a lot of masks due to not doing much in the town unless needed, eventually beat it after getting stuck on Majora for awhile. It wasn't until WW was about to come out that I replayed OoT + MM, and I actually fell in love the next time through. Got 100% for the first time. Now MM is not only my favorite zelda, but my favorite game of all time.

3DS remake plz
 
If you're referring to the
Silent Realm
, it really isn't stealth at all. More of a time trial, if anything.

And the (post-6th dungeon)
Eldin Volcano portion is barely stealth. There's, like, two parts when you have to walk past Bokoblins (and getting spotted just hurts you a little and doesn't cause you to get recaptured or do the whole portion over again) then you start getting items back and it's neat because it's like a little dungeon.
 
If you're referring to the
Silent Realm
, it really isn't stealth at all. More of a time trial, if anything.

I liked the silent realm, I am on the song note for the volcano, after the third slient realm I felt that was enough stealth for Zelda game but there be more!

And the (post-6th dungeon)
Eldin Volcano portion is barely stealth. There's, like, two parts when you have to walk past Bokoblins (and getting spotted just hurts you a little and doesn't cause you to get recaptured or do the whole portion over again) then you start getting items back and it's neat because it's like a little dungeon.

Thought it would be longer once that mole person said don't be seen I felt I was done for the day and turned it off
 
It was why I found Ghirahim so difficult my first time playing through the game (on my second right now). I was able to beat him with no fairies and no shield (mine had broken within the dungeon. The timing delay between nunchuck shake and shield bash was bizarre and a single hit from an enemy caused far too much a loss in shield life) with some crazy timing, backflipping, and strafing. I thought it was the hardest boss in a Zelda ever. I was getting beyond frustrated as none of my swipes of my sword would do as I wanted (caveat: I'm a lefty). At that point in the game I hadn't figured out how to quickly swipe certain directions. I still can't get thrust to work most of the time (Lizalfos are such a bitch). I swear the battle that I successfully rid of him took 20 minutes.

so yo can beat him without a shield? Cause i want to try it again today. Yesterday i tried three times without the shield and thought i needed it. First part of the fight was easy as hell. In the second part i can hit him quite a few times when i stay close to him so he can't run at me. But sometimes i lose track of him and he'll get his chance.

Anyway, i'll probably beat him like that if i try a couple of times, but i just want to know if i CAN beat him without a shield. Maybe there is a third stage in the fight...
 

leroidys

Member
ST was one of the finest games of its year as well as one of the best in the DS library.

COME AT ME GAF! Trash PH all you want, ST, though, I loved.

Rispekt. ST is a brilliant game that is just plain fun. Unfortunately it is marred by the worst overworld/travel system in any zelda game ever. I still love it though.
 
Right before the 3rd dungeon boss. I'm honestly surprised there's so much backlash. This game is incredible and might end up as my game of the generation.
 
I want to first say I do love this game but I am going to describe what I feel is off with this game by using everything before and during dungeon 6. I am sure I am probably just repeating what some of you have said so sorry if I do.

Before dungeon 6 you basically do the spirit realm which was fantastic. A new area opens up but this area is super small. You see a blocked door with a frog statue with its toungue out. Zelda verterans should already have an idea of what they need to do the second they see this, its obvious, it wants water. Well the game puts a sign in front of the frog that literally spells out that you need to put water on it. It is not necessary, any chance for somewhat of a puzzle is gone. When you reach the last frog clearly you need to get more water, now instead of figuring out what you need to do on your own the game tells you exactly what you need to do as well. Then you get a true fetch quest where they literally tell you to go some place and there is nothing to do there except talk to the dragon and then they send you back. Thankfully there is that fun as hell escort up the mountain, great use of the bow in that section.

Dungeon 6 has issues as well, specifically with the new dungeon item. Here is a mini game like addition where you enter an almost bomberman like game but the puzzles never get more complicated than simply hitting a switch to open a gate. Maybe there are two swiches, wow how hard. They mix it up with the millipede enemy which is nice but that is not enough. There is so much potential with puzzles they could come up with using that mode, I think back at older Zelda games and they would have come up with puzzles that would have you stumped. But not this game, its all as simple as can be. The rest of the dungeon is all basic stuff, no interesting thought provoking puzzles. Again there is a moment where the game spells out exactly what you need to do, a sign tells you to fall into the statue with the eyes closed, the game gives you a choice to fall into one and if you choose wrong guess what happens, NOTHING. Not even an alternate path filled with enemies as punishment for choosing wrong, nope. So much of this game feels like they need to cater the lowest common denominator.

Lets contrast that with the 6th dungeon in TP, the tower. There is a perfectly executed dungeon with a central concept that is used to it's full potential. You start off climbing the tower solving basic puzzles and fighting all sorts of enemies. You get to the top, get your new item that allows you to control statues and all of a sudden the tower is transformed into a puzzle filled gauntlet as you have to lead you statue down. Each floor builds and builds in complexity. It's never too hard but it doesn't insult your intelligence like SS does at times.

I still love the game, the gameplay, level design and variety is top notch. When compared to other games it blows most of them away, for example there is not one cave in Skyrim or one building in Batman as complex and varied as any dungeon in SS. But when compared to other Zelda games, it seems a bit lacking. This one seems to be at WW level for me.
 

ASIS

Member
[Nintex];32962806 said:
Read the Iwata Asks on this game, they even have a tool so that planners and designers can just put in stuff themselves without the need of a programmer. This also explains why the landmass doesn't feel 'natural' I think. They talk about this rather shortly but the landmass designers would have to keep up with the changes the design team made. They had to redo or add a bunch of stuff because a designer had been busy putting in fun elements. That's also the reason why the game is so dense, little got lost in the debugging process.

The problem with this Zelda is that all these elements just don't feel connected. The area's were made by seperate teams and they've done a great job putting it together but some things still don't fit. To me the first province is what a 2D Zelda would be like in 3D, the second province is pretty much Twilight Princess with a new coat of paint and the third province is where the magic happens and many new ideas were added as well as revisited from previous games. Skyloft pretty much steps in to make up for the lack of towns and sidequests in the world. The risk with this approach is however that the game tends to get boring at times. The pacing is off in some places because the sidequest or character that would've added some variety is stuck in Skyloft in the sequence of sidequests. At the same time the sidequests aren't that interesting because the locales don't change much. It's a design decision that left me stunned.

I never felt the world being incoherent actually. Each of the areas provided something unique and I really enjoyed that. And the side quests are really fun to do this time around. If you never told me that the areas were done by different devlopers (...how?) I would have never known.

This also brings up another question I wanted to ask. Do Zelda games start with a creator's vision in mind or is it just a collection of different ideas thrown around?
 

Ydahs

Member
Played an hour, just
flew my Loftwing for the first time.

I like the starting. It's a good introduction to both Skyloft and the main characters. Helps set the mood and ease you into it. Far from being boring.

I love the sword controls. I don't think I've had a swing be interpreted incorrectly so far. I made sure to go through a few rounds with the sword training to get a good feel for it. How people claim it works only 80% of the time is beyond me.

Cannot wait to sink more time into it and get onto more difficult enemies.

edit: looks good on my HDTV too. Some jaggies here and there, but the artstyle really shines through.
 

Kjellson

Member
What cover are y'all using for the CD on iTunes? I need one.
Maybe someone who is good at Photoshop could make something with this to make it look less like a photo?

tumblr_luyw89MYsi1qlqhveo1_1321806744_cover.png


That's how the cover looks in the European editions btw.
 
So I'm replaying through Skyward Sword
via Hero Mode,
and I couldn't help but notice this.
0CBIPl.jpg

What are those?
This is right after you enter Faron Woods for the first time, but the second time you see the Kikwi.
Excuse the poor picture, I don't have a capture device and had to use my cellular device.

No one, knows? not a single soul?
EDIT: I've checked direct feeds of multiple lets plays and this isn't there. Can someone check on
Hero Mode
cause now I'm worried my TV is messed up.
 

MarkusRJR

Member
Got the game on sale for $40 and just played 2 hours of it.

The cursor is really weird. Maybe that's just because I'm used to the IR-based cursor, but this is slow and clunky in comparison. It tends to drift around a lot too, and constantly loses it's centre every 5 minutes. My gamer ocd was kicking in... it was as if I was in an endless field of grass in a Zelda game but there were a few random pieces cut. I kept going to check to see if it drifted and fixed it accordingly. This is going to be slowing my game progress down. It's kind of depressing

That aside, I don't really notice any other control related problems. I've never had a missed swing with the sword. The only thing that was maybe troublesome was the loftwing controls. They felt like they drifted a bit, just like the annoying cursor. :/

The game itself is pretty interesting though, and it somehow looks gorgeous on my 48" HDTV.
 

Meohsix

Member
why doesn't amazon have the guide for sale?
i got a $15 credit from amazon for ordering the controller bundle and id like to put it towards the guide but its not available :(
 

olimpia84

Member
why doesn't amazon have the guide for sale?
i got a $15 credit from amazon for ordering the controller bundle and id like to put it towards the guide but its not available :(

You got $15? I only got $10 along with $2 worth of MP3 downloads. Meh
 

The Lamp

Member
Accidentally clicked on the spoiler thread and started casually reading responses. Thankfully it only took a few words in one post before I frantically scrolled up and noticed it wasn't OT speculation....it was spoiler thread spoilers lol.

I'm still in the 3rd dungeon. Damn this is soooo good. I love the
time and sand
gimmick.
 

cajunator

Banned
After 4 dungeons, my all time Zelda list is as follows:

SS > WW >> MM > OOT >>>LTTP >>>>>>>Zelda I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zelda II.
So yes I'm basically saying this has definitely passed Wind Waker as my favorite Zelda ever. I just smile like an idiot every time I'm playing it. I love it so much.
 

watershed

Banned
Maybe because I've been playing the game everyday since launch or because I've hit an uninteresting section but at the moment I don't have the motivation to play the game even though I'm pretty sure I'm near the end. I'm after the 6th dungeon
doing the music notes collecting part
. For those who have beat the game how hard were the final bosses? I just want to be able to gauge how much more effort I'll need to exert. For reference relating to the boss fight of the 6th dungeon
Ghirahim was a breeze, I didn't have any issues at all
 

kiryogi

Banned
I want to first say I do love this game but I am going to describe what I feel is off with this game by using everything before and during dungeon 6. I am sure I am probably just repeating what some of you have said so sorry if I do.

Before dungeon 6 you basically do the spirit realm which was fantastic. A new area opens up but this area is super small. You see a blocked door with a frog statue with its toungue out. Zelda verterans should already have an idea of what they need to do the second they see this, its obvious, it wants water. Well the game puts a sign in front of the frog that literally spells out that you need to put water on it. It is not necessary, any chance for somewhat of a puzzle is gone. When you reach the last frog clearly you need to get more water, now instead of figuring out what you need to do on your own the game tells you exactly what you need to do as well. Then you get a true fetch quest where they literally tell you to go some place and there is nothing to do there except talk to the dragon and then they send you back. Thankfully there is that fun as hell escort up the mountain, great use of the bow in that section.

Dungeon 6 has issues as well, specifically with the new dungeon item. Here is a mini game like addition where you enter an almost bomberman like game but the puzzles never get more complicated than simply hitting a switch to open a gate. Maybe there are two swiches, wow how hard. They mix it up with the millipede enemy which is nice but that is not enough. There is so much potential with puzzles they could come up with using that mode, I think back at older Zelda games and they would have come up with puzzles that would have you stumped. But not this game, its all as simple as can be. The rest of the dungeon is all basic stuff, no interesting thought provoking puzzles. Again there is a moment where the game spells out exactly what you need to do, a sign tells you to fall into the statue with the eyes closed, the game gives you a choice to fall into one and if you choose wrong guess what happens, NOTHING. Not even an alternate path filled with enemies as punishment for choosing wrong, nope. So much of this game feels like they need to cater the lowest common denominator.

Lets contrast that with the 6th dungeon in TP, the tower. There is a perfectly executed dungeon with a central concept that is used to it's full potential. You start off climbing the tower solving basic puzzles and fighting all sorts of enemies. You get to the top, get your new item that allows you to control statues and all of a sudden the tower is transformed into a puzzle filled gauntlet as you have to lead you statue down. Each floor builds and builds in complexity. It's never too hard but it doesn't insult your intelligence like SS does at times.

I still love the game, the gameplay, level design and variety is top notch. When compared to other games it blows most of them away, for example there is not one cave in Skyrim or one building in Batman as complex and varied as any dungeon in SS. But when compared to other Zelda games, it seems a bit lacking. This one seems to be at WW level for me.
This echoes my real complaint with SS. The dungeon designs are really creative and dynamic. They even have great foundations for the puzzles. But they end up really simple and linear to resolve. That's the thing that kills me about SS, is that there's never really any challenge, nor is it ever too complex. The closest this game has gotten to sort of wowing me in that regard was the
final dungeon
. But even that wasn't too hard, but definitely presenting the need for a little more thinking and navigation.

I sort of wish the
hero mode was a proper master quest with the dungeons/spoilers remixed. That would have been awesome
 

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
Maybe because I've been playing the game everyday since launch or because I've hit an uninteresting section but at the moment I don't have the motivation to play the game even though I'm pretty sure I'm near the end. I'm after the 6th dungeon
doing the music notes collecting part
. For those who have beat the game how hard were the final bosses? I just want to be able to gauge how much more effort I'll need to exert. For reference relating to the boss fight of the 6th dungeon
Ghirahim was a breeze, I didn't have any issues at all
Harder than that.

Should I fully upgrade the
Sacred
shield?
I did, I'd say it's worth it.
 

peakish

Member
Got through the third temple. Great game. They still manage to vary the enemy types enough for combat to feel varied. The puzzles are fun to do even if they're a bit easy, with that said I've been stuck on a couple which again is more than I could ever say about WW and TP. Oh and I've had to use potions a few times as well.

If I have a complaint it's perhaps about the pacing having been a bit slow in the pre-dungeon areas, especially the third which had way too much beetle use (didn't help that the temple itself was a bit eh). I do like these areas but they're perhaps a bit limited.

But anyway, what I'm in love with overall is that things finally feel fresh again. New cool races, a good amount of new and interesting mechanics, new types of puzzles, ditching some of the boring staples of the series like beginning with three hearts and the god damn compass, and a lot more. Sometimes I'm reminded of how I felt back when I played ALLTP and OOT.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Well, I beat it. I think I'd settle on a 7.5 score, about equal to Spirit Tracks in my mind which I liked, but didn't adore.

I just want to highlight something. Prior to the game, we discussed a sort of Metroidvania type interconnected world where you kept returning to areas with new abilities and then unlocked new areas. I love the idea. But this game has literally three different forms of revisiting the same area, even if one is more constricted than the other, and it just drags on and on and often becomes the BAD type of backtracking.

I'll just use pre-4th dungeon stuff to highlight the difference.

GOOD backtracking:

You got a
Water Scale
! Now you can
swim under the water to access the Deku Tree!

BAD backtracking

You need to
prove yourself in this lame time trial fetch quest! All you do is go around this area you've been to now, like, THREE or FOUR times combing already, where virtually nothing is changed except there are statues that chase you!

GOOD backtracking:

You go back to
the Water Dragon and open up a previously inaccessible dungeon in the Faron area!

BAD backtracking

Holy fuck I have to
go back through the Water Temple, with virtually no differences except new enemies? For a bottle of water? REALLY? This is sub-Corruption quality, sub-shovelware dev levels of padding.

To me, this illustrates the core problem the game has outside of the unreliable controls and handholding issues. They need to cut all the fat wherein you're getting abilities so you could START backtracking, and implement it into the standard traversal the first time. For example, if you complete a dungeon you should GAIN the ability to let you backtrack immediately... through use of your tools, or whatever. You should not have all this needless and frankly unfun fat that is just between me and getting to areas I haven't seen yet. It's one thing if you're going to REALLY mix it up, it's quite another if you're going to be lazy about it and just have the same area with new enemies.

peakish said:
the god damn compass

They didn't ditch it; they just provided the illusion they did by calling it "dowsing" and adding a lame extra step to the process. They actually devolved the streamlining.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
It actually makes me sort of sad that you didn't get to enjoy the game as much as you want Amirox. And I don't mean that in a condescending way at all.
 

Amir0x

Banned
It actually makes me sort of sad that you didn't get to enjoy the game as much as you want Amirox. And I don't mean that in a condescending way at all.

I am not sad I purchased it. It's the first Zelda ever that didn't live up to the expectations I had, so that's new... but in that respect, it's also a fascinating experience because I am seeing now Nintendo has a lot to learn as they join the HD generation. I don't think a lot of this stuff will be as forgivable with Wii U, and so I hope they learn from their mistakes and make a better product. It has some of the BEST ideas in the series, sadly tempered by a lot of fluff and polish issues.
 

peakish

Member
They didn't ditch it; they just provided the illusion they did by calling it "dowsing" and adding a lame extra step to the process. They actually devolved the streamlining.

Dousing is a bad mechanic, but it's not the compass. Yeah, now you know which floor the boss is on, lucky!

Btw, another thing they've finally fixed are fairies. They're not as common and less useful than potions which is great since there's been no reason to use anything else since like ALLTP or OOT. I think seeing them change some of this stuff bodes well for future games, even if they don't get all new mechanics right.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Rispekt. ST is a brilliant game that is just plain fun. Unfortunately it is marred by the worst overworld/travel system in any zelda game ever. I still love it though.

I agree with this. ST is super fun and well designed... except for the overworld. It's story is a bit blah, but it had one of the better Zeldas.
 
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