Togglesworlh
Banned
What? You're sent out to find the Kikwis. How is that not a fetch quest?
Whether or not it's enjoyable is up to the individual, but it is objectively a fetch quest.
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
What? You're sent out to find the Kikwis. How is that not a fetch quest?
Whether or not it's enjoyable is up to the individual, but it is objectively a fetch quest.
JordanLMiller
Member
Finished it earlier today. It's hard to compare this to TP. I think overall they feel really different. Anyway, a few thoughts:
-I liked upgrading items since collecting only rupees got old in the other games. Those annoying pop-ups whenever you restarted up the game needed to have an option to be turned off.
-The characters were really good. I liked Zelda and especially Groose! Fi could've used a little more personality... On the other hand, I thought Ghirahim was a really good villain, felt like Zant done correctly.
-I really wish a normal overworld was back. I don't like boats and trains and birds. That said, the beacon thing needs to be in every Zelda from now on. So much easier to set a destination and not get lost!
-Stamina bar was cool, wish it lasted longer because I still like to roll everywhere.
-Controls were good when they worked, but I feel like a lot of the increased difficulty in this game came from my remote becoming uncalibrated midfight. For example, I couldn't always do a stab properly or charge my sword by holding it straight up during battle. Also, final boss spoilers:
Also, maybe it's just me but I felt even the control stick seemed a bit imprecise. They need to take some lessons from the way movement was handled in SMG.
-The ending also seemed a bit abrupt. In OoT and MM I really liked seeing what became of everyone after the game was over. I kind of missed that here...
-Music was pretty good. I like more "hummable" pieces though and some dungeon music seemed to have a little too much of an ambient vibe for my liking.
-Boss Rush is a negative in my book. Stop putting this in!! It's just useless filler padding the length.
-One of my favorite moments in the game:
Even though those impressions probably seem like I'm picking on the game, it's only because I love this series so much. Happy 25th Zelda
-I liked upgrading items since collecting only rupees got old in the other games. Those annoying pop-ups whenever you restarted up the game needed to have an option to be turned off.
-The characters were really good. I liked Zelda and especially Groose! Fi could've used a little more personality... On the other hand, I thought Ghirahim was a really good villain, felt like Zant done correctly.
-I really wish a normal overworld was back. I don't like boats and trains and birds. That said, the beacon thing needs to be in every Zelda from now on. So much easier to set a destination and not get lost!
-Stamina bar was cool, wish it lasted longer because I still like to roll everywhere.
-Controls were good when they worked, but I feel like a lot of the increased difficulty in this game came from my remote becoming uncalibrated midfight. For example, I couldn't always do a stab properly or charge my sword by holding it straight up during battle. Also, final boss spoilers:
I think it should've been made more clear you could absorb the lightning into your sword during the second half of the fight. I died a few times before I figured it out.
-The ending also seemed a bit abrupt. In OoT and MM I really liked seeing what became of everyone after the game was over. I kind of missed that here...
-Music was pretty good. I like more "hummable" pieces though and some dungeon music seemed to have a little too much of an ambient vibe for my liking.
-Boss Rush is a negative in my book. Stop putting this in!! It's just useless filler padding the length.
-One of my favorite moments in the game:
Climbing up the rope in the basement of the Ancient Cistern towards the light being chased by zombie moblins. So awesome... I loved that whole area of the dungeon.
Even though those impressions probably seem like I'm picking on the game, it's only because I love this series so much. Happy 25th Zelda
No, I understand that it's objectively one. But it's not what I thought people meant by fetch quests.
For instance, What I consider fetchquests are the pre dungeon four segment. And collect-a-thons (and this game does have those).
The Kikwis and stuff are a very different kind of fetch quest and I just never thought of it when people here were complaining about it.
And if people were really bothered by these so called fetch quests all together then how on earth did you even enjoy this game?
Holy crap now really everything is starting to make sense, why people feel the pacing is completely off in this game, how it always drags, etc. For the first time I actually at least understand where these complaints are coming from.
No wonder this game is causing such polarizing results.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
See, the Kikwi hunt would only be an annoying fetchquest to me if it involved re-traversing an area you had already explored.
But if the fetchquest definition is expanded to include any time you go and find something at someone's request even if it involves experiencing brand new content then hell, 30% of all game content is fetchquests (another 65% is "kill everything")
But if the fetchquest definition is expanded to include any time you go and find something at someone's request even if it involves experiencing brand new content then hell, 30% of all game content is fetchquests (another 65% is "kill everything")
Hobbestetrician
Member
This. There are two kinds of quests in games: Kill Quests and Fetch Quests, or some combination of the two. After playing 80+ hours of Skyrim, I can safely say I was either fetching/stealing/delivering something for someone or going some place and killing everything.
I am curious as to what your other 5% would be.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Eh, sometimes you get more interesting stuff when devs decide to actually implement puzzle solving or in depth dialogue systems in RPGs or stuff like that.
Hobbestetrician
Member
Makes sense. I remember a stretch in Fallout: New Vegas where I realized I had my gun holstered for several hours, not firing a single shot, just navigating quests with dialogue options and choices. When I realized how long it had been I was able to reflect on how interesting and fun those hours had been.
When people complained of fetch quests, I thought they meant the few quests where you literally went from point A to B then back to A, without doing anything new/inventive. The Kikwi's and (most) other predungeon segments require you to explore new areas, overcome obstacles, fight enemies and solve puzzles. The elements of Zelda. It's kind of like progressing and looking for a small keys in a dungeon. But because SS presents it to you as "find these 5 things to progress", and with the *option* to dowse, then people get the illusion of it being a "pointless fetch quest". Which it's not. This is further emphasised by taking place predungeon, which Zelda fans and come to expect not to include dungeon elements. But SS does. SS isn't all about "getting to the next dungeon", and I feel that's the main goal of a lot of players.
I too am starting to understand why this game is so polarising. I'm kind of getting the feeling that many gaf readers, who are easily influenced by opinions, were set out to hate any part of SS that required you to collect something before they even played the game. Thus resulting is warped views between gameplay and fetch quests.
It's ok if people don't like it, that's completely fine, but it's kind of like playing Monkey Island and saying "man, there's way too many puzzles..."
I would qualify tasks that are largely puzzle driven as something very different from either of those, and I feel like SS is rather lacking in those. Where it has them the game goes extremely easy on you and tends to just tell you the solution even if you accidentally fail it once.
Puzzles and exploration mysteries have progressively been more and more replaced by Fetch Quests in Zelda games since, I'd say, after Link's Awakening.
It's always convenient to label anyone who disagrees with you as unreasonable before they even open their mouths. Maybe the reason you never understood before (and I'd argue still don't) is because you assumed they were stupid sheeple who can't have valid opinions.
Now, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and answer the substance and ignore the blanket ad hominem: How the game presents these segments is very very important. The game leaves you no incentive or reason to NOT dowse. You aren't rewarded for it, and if you don't you're basically berated by Fi. And there is a qualitative difference between "How do I get to the next dungeon? I'll go explore and see if I can *figure out* how to find the entrance" and "Fi told me to go here and find these and then that the entrance would be over there and open if I did this." I think it's baffling that anyone can't see that.
And no, it's like playing a Monkey Island where the narrator is constantly telling you what to do and then complaining that there aren't enough puzzles.
I think the difference of opinion is far more likely to arise from what you consider to be the definitive era of Zelda. If you grew up on TLoZ, LAdventure, LttP you probably find the fetch quests annoying and hand-holdy. If you grew up on OoT and so have had a little helper telling you where to go the whole time and progressively more fetch-quests defining the progression of the games, you're likely to not find this stuff too bothersome. Obviously there'll be exceptions either way, but this is how I see it.
I was asked why I didn't think finding Kikwi's was a fetch quest. I answered. I didn't invalidate anybody's opinion, just established mine.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
But how were most of Skyward Sword's fetch quests non-exploratory? Finding the Kikwis, finding the pieces of the Key, and finding the power generators were all exploratory, and later quests like the stealth section and the tadtones all changed the rules of how you interacted with the environment. There really only are one or two sections where the game literally says "run through this identical content a second time to grab something at the end"
I've said this like five times now. Because the game does not give you any reason to actually explore. You're encouraged to dowse and discouraged from not dowsing and you can do them all without paying any attention to your surroundings. And dowsing literally points *exactly* at what you're looking for (unlike, since they'll probably be brought up, the map marks in Link to the Past).
Calling that exploring is like calling driving with an interactive map to your friend's house exploring. Are you really going to notice anything around you?
Calling that exploring is like calling driving with an interactive map to your friend's house exploring. Are you really going to notice anything around you?
This sentence: "I'm kind of getting the feeling that many gaf readers, who are easily influenced by opinions.." is badly typed. I didn't mean that gaf readers as a whole are easily influenced, I'm saying that it's possible that some of them have been. I'm not using this theory as a whole argument, but I think it's ok to say that reading over and over all the complaints about Skyward Sword having fetch quests, then playing the game yourself, would result in the "fetch quests" standing out a lot more to the player and being more obtrusive. Obviously this isn't the case for everybody though.
And since you edited your previous post..
I can see that there are many parts of the game where Fi's annoyance is very true. But I honestly don't think these pre-dungeon parts were one of them. Yes, Fi unnecessarily told me to go find them and that I could dowse. I literally just tapped C and I wasn't asked to dowse again. Nor did Fi interrupt me. I just went on exploring and doing usual Zelda-like gameplay to find the Kikwi's or parts of keys or whatever. And when it came to finding the last one or two, it didn't hurt to dowse so I knew the general direction. I enjoyed the exploration without dowsing, it was fun and the enjoyment of it was easily rewarding enough for me. It didn't seem to be for you, I'm not disputing that. My point from the very beginning was that I didn't realise people also bundled these parts (what I considered normal, fun gameplay) in with the "point A to B then back to A" fetch quests (which I recognise as being pointless). It explains a lot to me as to why some people seem to hate this game with a passion (with a leading cause of hate being fetch quests), and I was merely throwing around theories as to why these segments are so polarising.
I'm from the OoT era, so this could possibly be the case.
I love Rare games. I love Banjo Kazooie. I love Donkey Kong 64.
I hated some of the collectathons in this game. You can't compare those games and Skyward Sword.
peppermints
Member
Maybe because I was around 10 years old about the time of the era of Rare's fetch quest fixation and grew up with them, but I don't mind the fetch quests. At least the ones I've encountered so far.
The only one I didn't like was the
, but the reward for that was totally worth it. One of my favorite parts of the game thus far.
Maybe it's because my gaming trends have changed in recent years, but my God I can not stand games with loads of text. Not story text, but every time I go to the bazaar I have to read the same welcome prompts from each shop keepers. Yes, I know that your husband can power up my potions, you said that the first time.
The only one I didn't like was the
propellor for the windmill
Maybe it's because my gaming trends have changed in recent years, but my God I can not stand games with loads of text. Not story text, but every time I go to the bazaar I have to read the same welcome prompts from each shop keepers. Yes, I know that your husband can power up my potions, you said that the first time.
peppermints
Member
^^
Does anyone else think it's a bit creepy when Fi moves her mouth along to the songs?
Does anyone else think it's a bit creepy when Fi moves her mouth along to the songs?
Hobbestetrician
Member
A task is something different than a quest to me. I know it is really just a semantic difference but solving puzzles in a dungeon or even collecting a bunch of music notes is not a quest but a task to complete in order to continue the overall quest. Zelda games are one big quest made up of many tasks.
But, then again, I am barely making sense to myself currently as I am a bit too tired to fully articulate my point.
thestatics
Neo Member
Santa was jolly enough to bring me the special edition this morning. Orchestral CD is beeeeeeyooooootiful
TheCongressman1
Member
That was one of the coolest battles in Zelda history, IMO. What's the problem with it?
The air/flying portion was just incredibly frustrating. I found it pretty difficult to aim for those eyes despite generally finding the motion controls in the game to be pretty responsive and precise. The difficulty aiming wouldn't be too bad if it re-routing and trying again was smooth, but that thing moved really fast, and with it's tail trying to smack you, there isn't much you could do but try to flap around until you could come in at an angle... and then likely miss, and repeat.
Yes, wrote that earlier.
The game is full of weird stuff. Nintendo should reall work on their game and world design. The niche they are currently in does lead into horrible fictions...The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Genzoman does it again. So good. Reminds me how much I wish Fi was as cool as Midna (read: had a personality).
EDIT: In the comments:..
I find it just slightly creepy how well defined Midna's breasts are
Android18a
Member
I don't think this is a thread for discussing how damn sexy Midna is, so I'll just say I like that artwork and I'd not mind seeing Fi again in Zelda, perhaps 'corrupted' somehow. Or so old she has developed a personality through sheer not-having-been-programmed-to-live-so-long-and-gone-a-bit-mental.
SecretMoblin
Member
They shouldn't be exhausting, assuming you don't have a preexisting medical condition or something. Are you sure you're just flicking your wrist to do the movements?
Not really. Didn't you play games before 2010?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, dungeon design really picks up at 3
Togglesworlh
Banned
I didn't want to be the first to say it. There's something wrong with that artist. I hope he gets help.
SecretMoblin
Member
Very close. You'll know exactly when you have an opportunity to go back and finish up anything you want before the final boss.
Cool - thanks.
SolarKnight
Member
I finally got the game this morning. I haven't gotten very far (haven't even been to the first dungeon), but it's been quite fun so far.
I really enjoy flying around, does anything happen if you get to close to either the Sun or the clouds, or is the bar just to tell you the limit of how low or high you can fly?
I really enjoy flying around, does anything happen if you get to close to either the Sun or the clouds, or is the bar just to tell you the limit of how low or high you can fly?
Hobbestetrician
Member
Just a limit.
hes actually very talented and does some amazing work
but hey, if you want to hate on a stranger for one picture go for it
Togglesworlh
Banned
I didn't say anything about the quality of the art.
But hey, if you want to make wild assumptions based on one jokey comment, go for it.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
You can do whichever and you will get the same reward. I gave the letter to Karane, but that somehow was worse to Cawlin than giving the letter to the hand.
P.S. FUCK YOU FLEDGE
STOP CHANGING THE ARC OF YOUR PUMPKIN THROWING AT RANDOM
FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
P.S. FUCK YOU FLEDGE
STOP CHANGING THE ARC OF YOUR PUMPKIN THROWING AT RANDOM
FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Got the Collector's Edition for xmas today. Just got my tunic so I think I'm done with most of the tutorial stuff.
In far more important news, the orchestral cd is absolutely amazing. Even my mom recognized the music and said it sounded really good. (Probably from all the hours I left ALTTP on back when I was little...) Been listening all day.
In far more important news, the orchestral cd is absolutely amazing. Even my mom recognized the music and said it sounded really good. (Probably from all the hours I left ALTTP on back when I was little...) Been listening all day.
CrankyKong
Member
I just finished the forest temple and am really enjoying it so far.
The only thing that bothers me are the controls.
They dont come second nature to me the way a dual analog setup would.
The only thing that bothers me are the controls.
They dont come second nature to me the way a dual analog setup would.
SolarKnight
Member
Oh god, I hate hate hate hate hate Skulltula's this time around. It's not even because they're annoying to fight (they are, and how do I even fight them on the ground other than making them hang again?), but there's just SOMETHING about them that freaks me the fuck out that just makes me go either "KILL IT WITH FIRE" or "OH GOD OH GOD RUN AWAY" D:
upslash to flip them on their back, then finishing blow
I just got the game as a gift and... I really can't stand the controls. Maybe it's the control problems paired with incessant, pointless, slow text at the beginning of the game that's giving me a hard time liking it. I'm at the first boss, and it's extremely infuriating because I feel as though the reason I'm losing is not my fault. Maybe I'm swinging too fast or not fast enough, I don't know, but my swipes are definitely not being translated correctly. It could be the fact that I'm not sitting upright, poised in front of the TV, but I want to relax when playing a game. I find this in no way preferable to using a controller, and this is the first time I've ever said this of a Wii game.