Support NeoGAF

[Davey Cakes]

If you try to play the game by pointing at the screen, it will not seem like IR aiming. The game isn't designed to work that way. The wiimote is an air mouse in the case of this game.

Yeah, the "air mouse" aspect of the control scheme is what gives it an advantage, in my opinion. And honestly, the stability of the cursor for me was about the same as it was when I was using IR in, say Twilight Princess. Hitting objects and enemies in the distance felt just as natural. But I recognize that it comes down to player preference, especially if some players aren't as good at keeping a reticule stable with motion as they are when using the sensor bar.

Motion+ aiming was an experiment that, in my opinion, worked. But maybe in the future Nintendo should include options for both.

I hate to jump in here, but for me this game has 0 replayability. I've replayed every Zelda game I've beaten, and while I'm not done with this yet (almost though, I just got the last song) I see no chance that I will pick this up again. I much prefer the open-world feel of the previous games than this directed "dungeon" over world feel. I feel like this game is really exhausting and I'm just wanting it to be over. And while the worlds do have a lot of content and are fairly well designed, like Faron Woods for example, they don't offer much in ways of exploration for me.

I think that the longer a game is, the less likely it is to be replayable. If you take your time with Skyward Sword and collect everything, then it's as long as a typical console RPG (40-60 hours on average). I, personally, took 60 hours and I don't feel like the lack of replayability is an issue since I'm not one to replay ANY game that takes so long to beat, especially if said game is adventure/puzzle-driven.

It wasn't difficult for me to replay a long game like RE4 (which took me 28 hours on the first go) because it's action-focused, is very fun to experiment with when playing a New Game+, and has a harder difficulty that requires more strategy. The way that a game like Skyward Sword is designed just doesn't call for replay, but that's honestly fine considering how grand the adventure is and how long it can take (again, up to 60+ hours upon first full completion).

Non-replayability just isn't a striking point against the game, in my opinion. I save such a criticism for shorter, action-focused experiences.

 

[Joei]

Non-replayability just isn't a striking point against the game, in my opinion. I save such a criticism for shorter, action-focused experiences.

I agree that non-replayability shouldn't be used as a point against the game, and I don't use it as one, since I don't often replay a lot of my games that I hold in high-regard, but what I was trying to address is that I wonder how many people are going to replay SS years down the rode and "see the light" and hold the game in a higher opinion. Even years later I don't see this as a game I can go back to.

 

[Chuckpebble]

Speaking of M+ versus IR.

Perhaps if it uses motion controls again Nintendo should give us the option? Likewise to other controls that could've used the analog stick.

I think they would've done that except that maybe they were afraid of confusing less affluent players. I mean, you and I know the difference, do you think Robin Williams does?

Also, remember the original E3 demo that flopped. I wonder if that's where this whole thing originated. Was it ever divulged whether that was bluetooth interference or IR interference? Maybe the game had TP style IR pointing up to that point and then they went back to the drawing board, as they say, after that little slip up.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Ah, I see. Yeah, if it's non-replayable in general then there's less likelihood of people playing it again five or so years down the road.

Then again, I thought Twilight Princess was also mostly non-replayable, but then I see on GAF that some people were playing through it right before Skyward Sword came out and others were playing through it right after finishing SS. Personally, I still don't have an inclination to replay TP even thought it's five years later, and I'll probably feel the same way about SS, so I guess it really just depends on the player.

 

[Anth0ny]

Cosmo testing some speed running things

This game is going to be brutal for speedruns, unless they can find a way to skip most of the cutscenes :lol

 

[Myriadis]

Cosmo testing some speed running things

This game is going to be brutal for speedruns, unless they can find a way to skip most of the cutscenes :lol

Spoiler

You can skip some cutscenes in Hero Mode

, and I think they already discovered a Back In Time-Glitch which lets you get to several places fairly quickly.

 

[Shiggy]

Cosmo testing some speed running things

This game is going to be brutal for speedruns, unless they can find a way to skip most of the cutscenes :lol

You can skip cutscenes after watching them for the first time. At times I did not really want to move on and turned my Wii off. The next time I started the game I was able to skip the cutscene even though I did not save the game after watching parts of the cutscene in the last session.

I think they would've done that except that maybe they were afraid of confusing less affluent players. I mean, you and I know the difference, do you think Robin Williams does?

Also, remember the original E3 demo that flopped. I wonder if that's where this whole thing originated. Was it ever divulged whether that was bluetooth interference or IR interference? Maybe the game had TP style IR pointing up to that point and then they went back to the drawing board, as they say, after that little slip up.

The issues seen during that E3 presentation are still in the final version to a certain degree as the sensor bar is still used. And even Wii Motion+ can go all wonky way to fast.

 

[JaseMath]

Started playing yesterday - hated it. I hated the controls. Turned it off after

Spoiler

Skyview Temple

and I cursed the fact that I did not like a console Zelda game.

Tried it again this morning...fell completely in love with it. The controls finally clicked for me...can't say why they didn't before. So glad I gave it another chance. I'm just about to go into the

Spoiler

Lanayru Mine

and, so far, it's my favorite Zelda. So good.

 

[Xun]

I think they would've done that except that maybe they were afraid of confusing less affluent players. I mean, you and I know the difference, do you think Robin Williams does?

No idea why but I cracked up an insane amount at this.

Also, remember the original E3 demo that flopped. I wonder if that's where this whole thing originated. Was it ever divulged whether that was bluetooth interference or IR interference? Maybe the game had TP style IR pointing up to that point and then they went back to the drawing board, as they say, after that little slip up.

Good point.

Did it use IR back then? I can't remember people mentioning IR when it was being played though.

 

[Mistle]

PAL version here too.

Mine's also PAL.

Started playing yesterday - hated it. I hated the controls. Turned it off after

Spoiler

Skyview Temple

and I cursed the fact that I did not like a console Zelda game.

Tried it again this morning...fell completely in love with it. The controls finally clicked for me...can't say why they didn't before. So glad I gave it another chance. I'm just about to go into the

Spoiler

Lanayru Mine

and, so far, it's my favorite Zelda. So good.

This post made me laugh. Enjoy the game, it's great!

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

IR definitely would've worked better for aiming, but perhaps they used the WM+ so they didn't have to include a floating Navi? Although having said that you could probably could get away with not having it.

The sword combat for the most part worked superbly, as did the nunchuck for the shield and rolling. I just wish other elements weren't implemented, such as using the Wiimote for flying, swimming, and any other gimmicky thing they used it for.

Also I'm tempted to play TP again soon, but the Cube version this time.

This is why Galaxy had such good implementation of motion controls--they included them, but only when it was comfortable, made sense and added something. The flying, rope walking, and some other stuff weren't needed at all and only served to frustrate.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Not all, but most, of the criticisms of Skyward Sword boil down to the fact that the team didn't copy the direction of western games precisely and try to equal them toe-to-toe. Gamers follow trends and tend to be affected by what's fashionable. Western games are fashionable. Western style RPGs are what is "standard" now. Games with full voice acting are considered "high budget", because people see budget only in terms of audio visuals, not things like design. It's like the Eurogamer review of Sin & Punishment 2 said: it was the highest budget game you'd play all year... in terms of design budget.

The level design and play mechanic concepts in SS are really sophisticated. They are advanced, polished, intricate evolutions of the kind of mechanics Nintendo is trademarked by. It's just that they're not goddamn Skyrim. So it is old poopy and made of fail.

The reason why Mario Galaxy is worshiped without the benefit of having yet become old and re-examined, is because there is no fashionable competition in 3D platform games. There is no Super Bethesda Brothers that has "progressive" features like full voice acting and ten hours of cut scenes for the modern gamer to drool over and conclude such things are the mark of "real games". So people's appreciation of the style of say, a Mario game, isn't nearly as clouded as it is with a Zelda game.

Why do I suspect Zelda games get re-examined five years later and judged to be classic is because: after the initial warped expectations and false comparisons have long since faded and been forgotten, people find you can still replay a Zelda game and the strength of its design and concepts - even with legitimate flaws taken into account - makes them better than 98% of what anyone else ever turns out.

Nintendo made some really, really amateur mistakes with SS. The game could have had a ton of fat cut off. Also, the story/cutscene portions were bad. This has nothing to do with people comparing SS to Bethesda games (I usually hate western games). I think I can fairly have criticisms of SS and not have to attribute them to games existing outside of SS, and I shouldn't have to wait 5 years to do it. This isn't gamefaqs--I think a lot of the complaints people are voicing are perfectly fair, and often perplexing, because most of them are very minor and easily fixable.

EDIT: DP, sorry

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I don't know if you can compare SS to Galaxy. Galaxy is a Mario 3D platformer first and foremost. The motion controls are a complement. Just like the shake-to-spin mechanic in NSMB and the shake-to-pound/roll in DKCR.

SS is basically built around motion controls. Every single item (except possibly the

Spoiler

Gust Bellows

) relies on the Motion+.

Perhaps the Zelda team spent most of their time perfecting the controls and left little time for environment design, hence all the reusing of levels and such.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I don't know if you can compare SS to Galaxy. Galaxy is a Mario 3D platformer first and foremost. The motion controls are a complement. Just like the shake-to-spin mechanic in NSMB and the shake-to-pound/roll in DKCR.

SS is basically built around motion controls. Every single item (except possibly the

Spoiler

Gust Bellows

) relies on the Motion+.

Perhaps the Zelda team spent most of their time perfecting the controls and left little time for environment design, hence all the reusing of levels and such.

Well that's basically what I'm saying. Galaxy used motion controls, but only where they were useful and added something. SS adds them where they work as well as where they're a waste of time. I would have preferred tighter controls in SS, even if it mean Nintendo conceding that the game wasn't all about motion.

EDIT: I just now discovered that drawing the nunchuk back speeds up the bow and arrow charge up. I don't think the game ever notified me of this...

 

[phisheep]

Well that's basically what I'm saying. Galaxy used motion controls, but only where they were useful and added something. SS adds them where they work as well as where they're a waste of time. I would have preferred tighter controls in SS, even if it mean Nintendo conceding that the game wasn't all about motion.

EDIT: I just now discovered that drawing the nunchuk back speeds up the bow and arrow charge up. I don't think the game ever notified me of this...

It did - right after when you got the bow. I didn't realise for ages that you could shoot without drawing the 'chuck back.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Nintendo made some really, really amateur mistakes with SS. The game could have had a ton of fat cut off. Also, the story/cutscene portions were bad. This has nothing to do with people comparing SS to Bethesda games (I usually hate western games). I think I can fairly have criticisms of SS and not have to attribute them to games existing outside of SS, and I shouldn't have to wait 5 years to do it. This isn't gamefaqs--I think a lot of the complaints people are voicing are perfectly fair, and often perplexing, because most of them are very minor and easily fixable.

EDIT: DP, sorry

And yet what are mistakes to you are not to others. There was no fat in this game for me. Room for refinement to basic elements, but there wasn't a quest I didn't enjoy. So if you had the choice of fixing the game you would have made a worse game for me. I really enjoyed the story too, more than I am enjoying TP's right now, just beat the Temple of Time.

So really I'd rather Nintendo make the game they want to make every time out and not listen to fans at all, whether it's good or bad feedback. TP feels like the game where they tried to please the fans most, it feels like a OOT/MM remix in so many ways, and while still very very good so far it feels like the least of all the 3D Zelda's. They are better off looking internally at ways to improve the series and keep it fresh.

 

[Xun]

SS is basically built around motion controls. Every single item (except possibly the

Spoiler

Gust Bellows

) relies on the Motion+.

What? Felt like Motion+ to me.

 

[JasoNsider]

Much further into the game now and I'm constantly floored. Every time I exclaim that this is one of the coolest parts of the game, there is something as cool or better just around the corner. I absolutely adore this game and for one of the first times in a long time, am afraid for it to end.

 

[sphinx]

I am entering the 5th temple right now and I think it is on par to twilight princess.

Some things are better in on game, some others are better in the other one.

 

[Sagitario]

Much further into the game now and I'm constantly floored. Every time I exclaim that this is one of the coolest parts of the game, there is something as cool or better just around the corner. I absolutely adore this game and for one of the first times in a long time, am afraid for it to end.

Yeah. It actually left me with a feeling of needing more, I was "sad" because it ended. I wanted to continue playing, wishing there was some extra content after defeating

Spoiler

Demise

.

 

[Forkball]

Fuck you silent realms. I was one away from beating the Eldin silent realm, but in the last section there were a million of those sentries and I alerted them. When I tried to climb the ledge, one of those flying guys hit me just as I climbed up. IT WAS IN MY SIGHT.

Why are these in the game? WHY. I would rather collect a million triforce pieces in the ocean than do this.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Silent Realms are awesome. One one of my favorite parts of the game.

 

[Forkball]

Silent Realms are awesome. One one of my favorite parts of the game.

I was disappointed when you were banned for a while. Now I'm not so sure.

The Silent Realms have a good aesthetic and concept, but the invincible guardians, time limit, and guarantee that you will not beat them in one try makes them frustrating and not fun. They could at least let you keep the tears you collected after you got hit. Now I have to get all those fuckers again.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The ones you get stay on your map.

I felt like the Silent Realms are the only example of forced stealth done right. They're fun, they make you strategize and take things slow, they're well thought out, they're very tense, they look cool, and they don't last very long.

 

[peakish]

I was disappointed when you were banned for a while. Now I'm not so sure.

The Silent Realms have a good aesthetic and concept, but the invincible guardians, time limit, and guarantee that you will not beat them in one try makes them frustrating and not fun. They could at least let you keep the tears you collected after you got hit. Now I have to get all those fuckers again.

I was so mad at the first two after failing them a few times, it did NOT help that you have to reread instructions and get the awakening animations every single time you retried it. That said, after these two it was a lot easier, maybe I got more careful or whatever, but I didn't hate it.

One thing that was particularly bad about them anyway was that I never felt like I could trust the challenge. Sometimes the scouts felt like they were alerted and came after you if you stepped within five meters of them, other time you're expected to snag tears just besides them which they don't react to. If I need to stealth in a game they can't rewrite AI rules on the spot, damnit. They need to be consistent.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I failed all the Silent Realms only once, except for the third which I didn't die on. Fun as hell.

 

[Shiggy]

The ones you get stay on your map.

I felt like the Silent Realms are the only example of forced stealth done right. They're fun, they make you strategize and take things slow, they're well thought out, they're very tense, they look cool, and they don't last very long.

I think the Silent Realms were completely out of place. As if they had a small idea and didn't know where to put it ... and then they put it into the next Zelda.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I was disappointed when you were banned for a while. Now I'm not so sure.

The Silent Realms have a good aesthetic and concept, but the invincible guardians, time limit, and guarantee that you will not beat them in one try makes them frustrating and not fun. They could at least let you keep the tears you collected after you got hit. Now I have to get all those fuckers again.

They really weren't hard whatsoever. I beat all but one on my first try and I only lost the first time on the last one because I miscalculated how fast I could run. I thought they were fairly fun and a nice change of pace, imo.

 

[peakish]

I think the Silent Realms were completely out of place. As if they had a small idea and didn't know where to put it ... and then they put it into the next Zelda.

Well a lot of things were "out of place" in that case. I like that they put in these smaller mini gamey stuff in the game (

Spoiler

tadtones, digging underground-puzzles, etc.

), though I wasn't a huge fan of these for different reasons. I've been bagging a lot on the amount of collectathon sections in the game and it just becomes too much at a certain point for me. Like, before the first of these stealth sections you've had to douse for and collect key parts three times for the first three temples, then you douse again to find this section and is at once put into collecting even more stuff that doesn't have any real connection to the story. What exactly made this a test of courage (or whatever it was)?

That plus the stealth really isn't that well executed. But I think they could have made it fit in the game pretty well.

 

[DCKing]

That 4th dungeon is really, really good. One of the best in the 3D Zeldas.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I think the Silent Realms were completely out of place. As if they had a small idea and didn't know where to put it ... and then they put it into the next Zelda.

The whole game is a grab-bag of random ideas (most executed very well, some not), don't know why you'd single out the Silent Realms.

 

[Falcs]

Just wondering, do you guys actually swing your arms like you're holding a sword when you play this game?
Because I'm about 40 hours into it, quite close to the end I think, and throughout pretty much the whole game I've just used waggle, much like I did in Twilight Princess.
Except now with M+ it's more of a directional waggle, rather than just a shake.

Am I the only one who plays like this? Is it more fun or accurate to swing your arms around? I just cbf doing that.

Sigh... I miss controlling link with a controller.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

And yet what are mistakes to you are not to others. There was no fat in this game for me. Room for refinement to basic elements, but there wasn't a quest I didn't enjoy. So if you had the choice of fixing the game you would have made a worse game for me. I really enjoyed the story too, more than I am enjoying TP's right now, just beat the Temple of Time.

So really I'd rather Nintendo make the game they want to make every time out and not listen to fans at all, whether it's good or bad feedback. TP feels like the game where they tried to please the fans most, it feels like a OOT/MM remix in so many ways, and while still very very good so far it feels like the least of all the 3D Zelda's. They are better off looking internally at ways to improve the series and keep it fresh.

Well I was referring to general presentation stuff like super slow text, unskippable ITEM GET animations, and the myriad of pointless fetchquests in the singleplayer that could have been relegated to side quests.

But if you like all of these things that's cool too. FWIW TP is my favorite 3D Zelda, although going back and playing it I do miss the swordplay of SS quite a lot, as well as the quicker movements allowed by the parkour stuff. One thing I hope is brought back in the Wii U Zelda is a camera stick, because having to recenter 24/7 in SS was pretty annoying.

 

[peakish]

Just wondering, do you guys actually swing your arms like you're holding a sword when you play this game?
Because I'm about 40 hours into it, quite close to the end I think, and throughout pretty much the whole game I've just used waggle, much like I did in Twilight Princess.
Except now with M+ it's more of a directional waggle, rather than just a shake.

Am I the only one who plays like this? Is it more fun or accurate to swing your arms around? I just cbf doing that.

Sigh... I miss controlling link with a controller.

I made full swipes maybe a few times, it was mostly smaller, contained motions. Still thought it was a lot of fun. "Waggle" to me implies a general shake more than a motion, but we.

 

[The Awesomest]

Okay, I just got back to playing this game, just in time for the Tadtones. Honestly, I really didn't struggle with it at all. Doing the spin attack made it super easy, the blowfish never got in my way, the crazyfish were too high up to make any difference, and once I got dowsing finding the rest was a cinch.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Yeah tadtones weren't awful. Not good, but not bad.

I would have chucked a controller if it was timed, though. Thankfully it wasn't.

 

[The Awesomest]

Mmm, yeah, that would've been pretty awful. I did like seeing and exploring Faron Woods

Spoiler

completely underwater

.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Silent realms were awful and the gimmick wore off its welcome with me after the 2nd one.

One of the few things i hated about the game....cringed everytime i had to do one.

 

[sphinx]

So I am having trouble playing the harp as background music for the girl in the bar. It seems, like some sort of light coming through my window or perhaps some electronic devices between my sensor bar and the Wiimote is causing small bumps..I can see how link's hand jumps all over the harp.

is there anything I can do to improve this? is it external light crewing my game or is my wiimote broken?

 

[Busaiku]

So is there any way to check if I've gotten all the Goddess Cubes?
I'm pretty sure I have, I haven't been detecting it, but maybe I'm just not pointing towards the right places.

Anyone?

I'm missing like at least 2 or 3 Heart Pieces (I have 17 or 18 Hearts) and I can't Dowse anything.
It's killing my progress, because I want to get everything first...

 

[sphinx]

Anyone?

I'm missing like at least 2 or 3 Heart Pieces (I have 17 or 18 Hearts) and I can't Dowse anything.
It's killing my progress, because I want to get everything first...

you might want to try this guide:

Heart Location Guide, Gamefaqs

 

[Sagitario]

So I am having trouble playing the harp as background music for the girl in the bar. It seems, like some sort of light coming through my window or perhaps some electronic devices between my sensor bar and the Wiimote is causing small bumps..I can see how link's hand jumps all over the harp.

is there anything I can do to improve this? is it external light crewing my game or is my wiimote broken?

The game doesn't really use the sensor bar.
The harp instrument is pure [rhythm] waggle.

Check your batteries, maybe? Or try another controller.

 

[entremet]

Tadtones. ARRGGGHHH!

 

[Dr.Hadji]

I was disappointed when you were banned for a while. Now I'm not so sure.

The Silent Realms have a good aesthetic and concept, but the invincible guardians, time limit, and guarantee that you will not beat them in one try makes them frustrating and not fun. They could at least let you keep the tears you collected after you got hit. Now I have to get all those fuckers again.

You CAN beat all the trails in your first try through them ( I did). In fact, doing so is the entire point of placing them in areas your made yourself familiar with before. Knowing where your vantage points are, general level flow and various tricks the levels contain (the Eldin trails had tears in the same places on the sand slide where two parts of the key were previously) helps you greatly in solving the levels. If you kind of sleep walk your way though or don't recognize cues I can see those parts being tiresome.

 

[Xun]

You CAN beat all the trails in your first try through them ( I did). In fact, doing so is the entire point of placing them in areas your made yourself familiar with before. Knowing where your vantage points are, general level flow and various tricks the levels contain (the Eldin trails had tears in the same places on the sand slide where two parts of the key were previously) helps you greatly in solving the levels. If you kind of sleep walk your way though or don't recognize cues I can see those parts being tiresome.

Indeed.

The only one I had to do a couple of times was the final one, and even then I didn't mind at all.

I found it fun to be honest.

 

[Anth0ny]

Tears were horrible and I hope they are nowhere to be found in Retro Zelda Wii U.

 

[spekkeh]

Tadtones. ARRGGGHHH!

Yeah, I was just about to come on here to compliment the game in that I really liked it ever since meeting up with Zelda, I was even okay with the

Spoiler

Imprisoned rehashes

. Then I stumbled on the Tadtones. What the fuck, Nintendo!

 

[Shiggy]

So I am having trouble playing the harp as background music for the girl in the bar. It seems, like some sort of light coming through my window or perhaps some electronic devices between my sensor bar and the Wiimote is causing small bumps..I can see how link's hand jumps all over the harp.

is there anything I can do to improve this? is it external light crewing my game or is my wiimote broken?

It could be that the sensor bar is used for playing the harp, I'll check that tomorrow.

 

[Busaiku]

Alright, managed to get all the Gear, Heart Pieces, and finish it.
Great stuff all around.

The last battle had me perplexed though.

 

[JaseMath]

So, I’m getting close(ish) to the end of the game and had a question before I get too far along

Spoiler

I’ve just did the silent realm challenge on Eldin Volcano

. I’ve read that once you beat the final boss of SS, you have to start all over...you’re not able to go back and do the side quests. Is this true? Do I have to do all the side quests before I beat the game? The way I usually play any game is I plow through the main story and beat it, then beat it again having done all the side quests. Hope I can still do that...