NecrosaroIII
Banned
Who? Adar? I think he's pretty cool
negator2vc
Member
There is only one insufferable elf. She just love horses
Imagine the META IRON Balls of the writing team if the next ep opens with a comically diverse group of kids playing The One Ring RPG and dressed like the show characters.
The GM says "Well, that's a TPK, time to create some new characters""
PhaseJump
Banned
This week's episode was fucking awful like the rest of them.
Melodrama between the elf and the mom, the time wasted on the beyond cliche fake-death recovery bullshit, while they're all surrounded by fucking monsters and other wounded people. The horse stunts. The awful fighting scenes. Galadriel offering up her homocidal ruthless speech, wasting everybody's time trying to explain how bad she is, then her being triggered like a child into ignoring all of it because the bad guy listened to her and quipped about how bad she is. It's pure trash. Fucking nonsense.
Nobody even checked the blade hilt? The wrapped up important object she had to stop the enemy commander from getting away with at all costs? The actual macguffin that brought the fucking orcs to the humans in full force wasn't secured immediately by the elf, the super mom, the idiot teenager, the humans who were there dying for it? Galadriel wasn't wise enough to wonder his motives while escaping, despite the request to stop him, mentioning the object?
5 seasons of this? Will Bezos allow it?
Melodrama between the elf and the mom, the time wasted on the beyond cliche fake-death recovery bullshit, while they're all surrounded by fucking monsters and other wounded people. The horse stunts. The awful fighting scenes. Galadriel offering up her homocidal ruthless speech, wasting everybody's time trying to explain how bad she is, then her being triggered like a child into ignoring all of it because the bad guy listened to her and quipped about how bad she is. It's pure trash. Fucking nonsense.
Nobody even checked the blade hilt? The wrapped up important object she had to stop the enemy commander from getting away with at all costs? The actual macguffin that brought the fucking orcs to the humans in full force wasn't secured immediately by the elf, the super mom, the idiot teenager, the humans who were there dying for it? Galadriel wasn't wise enough to wonder his motives while escaping, despite the request to stop him, mentioning the object?
5 seasons of this? Will Bezos allow it?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What do you mean, that's a strong unforgiving woman.
She will remember that shit and bring it up 6,000 years later and some change.Art imitates life imitates art.
Was this the first episode where the fourth coupling of man and elf (Tolkien said there was three) actually showed affection?
Some love story when you cant even communicate clearly that two people are in love for almost six hours.
Also, is it just me, or does Arondil just kinda seem constantly constipated?
He reminds me of Joey and smell the fart acting, only it's trying to take a shit acting.
Some love story when you cant even communicate clearly that two people are in love for almost six hours.
Also, is it just me, or does Arondil just kinda seem constantly constipated?
He reminds me of Joey and smell the fart acting, only it's trying to take a shit acting.
Ulysses 31
Member
A theory being thrown out there is that Sauron wants to start something with Galadriel but she rejects him(maybe she finally remembers Celeborn?) leading him to become Sauron once again because of it...What do you mean, that's a strong unforgiving woman.
Art imitates life imitates art.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh for fuck's sake.A theory being thrown out there is that Sauron wants to start something with Galadriel but she rejects him(maybe she finally remembers Celeborn?) leading him to become Sauron once again because of it...
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
A theory being thrown out there is that Sauron wants to start something with Galadriel but she rejects him(maybe she finally remembers Celeborn?) leading him to become Sauron once again because of it...
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Not true. The Rohirrim and the Gondorians were losing until Aragorn's army arrived. Even then the battle lasted the day and it was at sunset that they won. Some of the orcs fled when Aragorn arrived but not all of them. The Haradrim didn't run away. So, hardly a mop up job.
pramod
Banned
"Subverting fan expectations" is all Hollywood has been obsessed with lately. So this wouldn't be surprising at all.
Kacho
Member
Modern entertainment in a nutshell
Arondir hits the evil sword with a small hammer a few times until the hammer breaks.
"It is beyond my skill to destroy."
..........????????
How about melting it? Or using leverage? Or a big hammer?
Single Mom is commanding the entire village now, giving speeches and issuing military orders. She's not a warrior, holds no political station or influence, is not at the top of any social hierarchy.
Moms are tough.
"It is beyond my skill to destroy."
..........????????
How about melting it? Or using leverage? Or a big hammer?
Single Mom is commanding the entire village now, giving speeches and issuing military orders. She's not a warrior, holds no political station or influence, is not at the top of any social hierarchy.
Moms are tough.
The bigger atrocity is what she's wearing the whole time, this overgrown cumbersome shawl the entire fight.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Adjusted for inflation The Two Towers budget is around $135-150 Million (it was $98 million production budget back then)… consider TTT came out 20 years ago and they had to do a lot more research and pre-production and the computers and tools and experience making SFX should now be more streamlined 20 years later.
Each episode of RoP is about $89 Million, total cost for the first season being about $700-800 Million for 8 episodes including Tolkien Estate rights (which are spread across all seasons). I do not see where the budget went… especially considering that not all episodes cost the same to make.
Each episode of RoP is about $89 Million, total cost for the first season being about $700-800 Million for 8 episodes including Tolkien Estate rights (which are spread across all seasons). I do not see where the budget went… especially considering that not all episodes cost the same to make.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
This is probably the most unflattering article I've seen on the show:
www.businessinsider.com
Amazon analyst said he 'fell asleep' watching the company's LOTR 'Rings of Power' TV show, making him even more worried the $1 billion project may be a bust
Amazon's 'Rings of Power' series has received poor reviews from users online, though some of that has been 'review bombing.'
www.businessinsider.com
The show runners and production team clearly could not properly manage this project. They've made a small scale TV show where two or three people sit in a room and talk for ten minutes at a time with A/B cameras and awkwardly bolted on expensive VFX of huge beautiful vistas. In ep 6 here we have wide shots of thousands of orcs, then they fight 50 of them in one tiny village square and the battle is inexplicably over.
Amateur hour. Throwing money at a project does not guarantee anything about outcomes. You need capable, experienced show runners and a crew that understand how to produce a large scale project with many extras, location shooting, complex sets, and dynamic choreography.
If you gave 1 BILLION dollars to HBO for a Tolkien series we have a pretty good notion of how it would turn out.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's weird because I don't think Amazon's production studio is inept or inexperienced overall - they have managed to put out some bangers and win some sought after awards. I realize that in some cases they only serve as kind of producers while a number of other production companies do the actual leg work - same as it is with say HBO or Hulu. It's this show in particular that seems so horribly bungled and mismanaged.
HoodWinked
Member
It's the equivalent to bad chefs that put gold leaf on some dish to say they have the most expensive ___.
strange headache
Banned
And here I thought all the criticism is just artificial negativity produced by outrage tubers and their brainwashed followers.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Notice in Episode 4 as well how her boots are elaborate and clean and look real nice. They had a close up shot of her walking up stairs. Everyone else is wearing dark-coloured dirty boots or shoes. But hers look totally different. On top of that, she has a nice blue dress while everyone else (including her son) is dressed like Dobby. Also, she's probably the only one who washed her hair.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I don't mind the show if I divorce myself from Tolkien and just watch it as a fun fantasy show. Actually still enjoying it with my wife.
They are definitely reaching with the source material though. Galadriel's hatred seems to be an on the nose attempt to remind viewers that "men and elf's" have a large part to play in the rise of evil.
Again fun to watch if you can treat it more like a fun ride than a verbatim deep take on Tolkien's world. Could do without the flying stunts and ridiculous character arcs, but whatever, just injects some humour.
House of the Dragon is clearly miles ahead of this and actually starting to wonder if I'm enjoying that show more than I did Game of Thrones at times.
They are definitely reaching with the source material though. Galadriel's hatred seems to be an on the nose attempt to remind viewers that "men and elf's" have a large part to play in the rise of evil.
Again fun to watch if you can treat it more like a fun ride than a verbatim deep take on Tolkien's world. Could do without the flying stunts and ridiculous character arcs, but whatever, just injects some humour.
House of the Dragon is clearly miles ahead of this and actually starting to wonder if I'm enjoying that show more than I did Game of Thrones at times.
killatopak
Member
This is the hardest part to do. Tbf I'm not the biggest Tolkien fan. I'm more of the PJ movies enjoyer but even I have a hard time of separating the two. The show has potentially 4 iconic characters that appear in the Jackson trilogy. 6 if you include the brief appearance of Isildur and Elendil.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Personally I treat the Peter Jackson movies the same way. As someone who collects Tolkien versions and read the lore, I need to separate them or I'll just get upset which means I won't be able to enjoy them.
I agree it's very difficult to do and don't take issue with others being disappointed.
Hey, it could be worse. Could be the Wheel of Time series. What a train wreck of a show that is lol.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
There are a lot of things not spelt out in Tolkien's lore that are left to the reader to surmise. This is part of why the writing was so good in my opinion. In this case however, I can't recall anything explicitly written about this in Unfinished Tales nor anything implying this, and I do believe it's a large reach as part of the show.
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Even better, she has now killed TWO orcs in hand to hand combat.
A peasant woman.
Yet 4-5 ELVES in DAYLIGHT can't take out 10 guards in a trench.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Tolkien never explicitly says Galadriel is good or evil in the books and this is actually a literary discussion that is constantly being had. Reader has to surmise based on actions her "gentleness" etc... Also, note that Sauron is also called "the great deceiver" which could theoretically imply he could be anyone at all.Annnd Galadriel just swore an oath to commit genocide.
Congrats, Amazon, you've taken a beloved literary character and from her smoldering ashes spawned the worst, most detestable protagonist in the history of television.
We know Galadriel is strong, a great warrior, intelligence and has a large capacity for hate based on her past, while at the same time has the ability to apply gentleness and kindness. We also know she has done a lot of good (i.e. White Council, etc...). I think it is reasonable to assume she is a "good" character.
Peter Jackson's movies gave her a sense of more though; almost an evil presence at times and I think the show is obviously running with the continuation of the films in this regard. There is a fine line between evil and good and this is obviously the line that Amazon wants to tread at the moment.
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lifa-cobex
Member
I'm kinda the same in terms of the books to the films.
You could do a LOTR series that encapsulates everything but it would be many seasons spread and a hell of a mountain to clime.
To make a film like Peter Jackson did. You kinda have no choice but to take some creative liberties, cut large portions out and perhaps add points to the films so it flows naturally.
It would have been really weird if Peter added Saruman going to the Hobbits village. It wouldn't have worked in a film context. He did the right things at killing him off in the tower.
However when you have taken your chosen points to craft a series/ film from the lore. It's all on the writers and directors shoulders from that point on.
Make sure it all flows and tell a well written story.
This series fails on it's own merits.
I can forgive going outside the lore or even a few contradictions.
But it's gone from poor story telling to contradictions to character assassination.
Nothing works.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Laundering and tax evasion scheme, lol.
QSD
Member
Heh yeah there is a lot of stuff in this series that pretty closely follows the PJ movies. A couple of pages ago I was also arguing that Galadriel is not a character without ambivalence in the movies so the darker aspects of her character being more on the forefront in this series doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.
My issue with the Galadriel characterization isn't her morality per se, it's how blunt and crude she is in diplomacy yet she is the COMMANDER of the Northern Armies (whatever those are). If I had any respect for the writers I'd think they were trying for a Patton or MacArthur type of personality but....wow.
Anyhoo, some nitpicks.
A. Galadriel can see land an HOUR before humans. I'm gonna go with "she can see the land in the pre-dawn" rather than "Middle-Earth is flat and she can just see FARTHER" (though IIRC in the very early days M-E WAS flat)
B. The Armor. Hoo boy. Numenor scaled armor is, I think, supposed to represent some sort of advanced material signifying their technological and cultural accomplishments. Ceramic or some sort of dragon scale perhaps? Something a NAVAL power would develop that wouldn't send their soldiers into the deeps if they go overboard?
C. But where did Halbrand get his dope copper/aged bronze version? Make it himself? Heck, where did Galadriel get her exquisitely fitted high renaissance full plate? Did they make that on demand as well? I can only presume they did.
Those two "hero" armors were actually pretty cool, especially the very fine mail over her joints (woven cloth or actual rings?) But the numenorean stuff was far too monotone and indeterminate in material with that elaborate neck collar and the armor patterned shirt they wore under it.
D. the tactics....so lemme get this right. We give up a SUPREMELY fortified outpost, with a single narrow entrance, for 3 low houses in a field? This seemed like the problem with having the tower but ALSO needing a cavalry charge. Solution...walk to a field!
I can get that the first group of orcs they fight might be just a reinforced scouting party because Arda had his forces spread out looking for the humies, he was in disbelief that they walked an hour away and gave up an ENTIRE day of movement to instead reinforce the village.
E. the whole flood thing. Sooooo, this was an ancient First Age Sauron construction? Some last ditch defensive measure if invaded? Having a magical key instead of a keystone you knock away probably makes more sense if your army is composed of chaotic rabble like orcs and dirty southrons but seems like a bit of physical effort would have accomplished the same thing AND Arda could have just relocated HIS humans (if he really wants to lay claim to Mordor) rather than kill his new workforce.
I'm starting to view this show as "alt-Tolkien" pastiche, kinda like Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar books (which are FANTASTIC, BTW, just not at the level of Tolkien) and it boosts my enjoyment a bit by taking off some of the weight of expectations.
BTW, loved the ENORMOUS hilt of Adars sword. I dopn't think he ever uses it, but he has a zweihander hilt on what must be a longsword at best.
Anyhoo, some nitpicks.
A. Galadriel can see land an HOUR before humans. I'm gonna go with "she can see the land in the pre-dawn" rather than "Middle-Earth is flat and she can just see FARTHER" (though IIRC in the very early days M-E WAS flat)
B. The Armor. Hoo boy. Numenor scaled armor is, I think, supposed to represent some sort of advanced material signifying their technological and cultural accomplishments. Ceramic or some sort of dragon scale perhaps? Something a NAVAL power would develop that wouldn't send their soldiers into the deeps if they go overboard?
C. But where did Halbrand get his dope copper/aged bronze version? Make it himself? Heck, where did Galadriel get her exquisitely fitted high renaissance full plate? Did they make that on demand as well? I can only presume they did.
Those two "hero" armors were actually pretty cool, especially the very fine mail over her joints (woven cloth or actual rings?) But the numenorean stuff was far too monotone and indeterminate in material with that elaborate neck collar and the armor patterned shirt they wore under it.
D. the tactics....so lemme get this right. We give up a SUPREMELY fortified outpost, with a single narrow entrance, for 3 low houses in a field? This seemed like the problem with having the tower but ALSO needing a cavalry charge. Solution...walk to a field!
I can get that the first group of orcs they fight might be just a reinforced scouting party because Arda had his forces spread out looking for the humies, he was in disbelief that they walked an hour away and gave up an ENTIRE day of movement to instead reinforce the village.
E. the whole flood thing. Sooooo, this was an ancient First Age Sauron construction? Some last ditch defensive measure if invaded? Having a magical key instead of a keystone you knock away probably makes more sense if your army is composed of chaotic rabble like orcs and dirty southrons but seems like a bit of physical effort would have accomplished the same thing AND Arda could have just relocated HIS humans (if he really wants to lay claim to Mordor) rather than kill his new workforce.
I'm starting to view this show as "alt-Tolkien" pastiche, kinda like Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar books (which are FANTASTIC, BTW, just not at the level of Tolkien) and it boosts my enjoyment a bit by taking off some of the weight of expectations.
BTW, loved the ENORMOUS hilt of Adars sword. I dopn't think he ever uses it, but he has a zweihander hilt on what must be a longsword at best.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I agree that the writing isn't very cohesive.
Ulysses 31
Member
Ben Shapiro of all people pointing out things I haven't seen many others do
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
How do you get past the terrible writing and illogical things?
QSD
Member
By chilling out, not being a purist or nitpicker.
The level of scrutiny/outrage ROP is getting is crazy if you compare it to how people (for example) in horror movie threads judge their entertainment.
Fake
Member
When you create an art, people expect the next to be the superior.
Thats what I fell when I watched Spider-Man 3 on movie theater after watching 1 and 2.
Is not hard science. Give social media a break. When your show have nothing to offer, nitpicking is rather common. Happens with Spider-Man 3, happens with Pirates of Caribien 3 and happens with Iron Man 3, so why now is a problem?
Should you chilling out or stop nitpicking and just watch the show just because someone told you so? Try saying this in front of a mirror for a change.
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negator2vc
Member
That is a very odd comparison. Horror movies are stupid, they always have been stupid, and they have spawned a whoel plethora of tropes about how stupid people are. "Let's split up" being chief among them,
The Lord of the Rings is not stupid. The book, is excellence. The movies were excellence.
The bar is set at excellence, so that is what we expect. The Hobbit got a lot of flack, rightfully so, because it did not come anywhere near the bar set by the LotR trilogy.
The audience for Rings of Power is not even remotely close to being what it is for horror movies. The same people might enjoy both, but go into each with vastly different expectations.
This isn't just some people bitching and moaning about insignificant things though, there is so much inane writing in this show that it's downright baffling. It's not nitpicking to sit on the couch going WTF? when Halbrand suddenly intercepts Adar (from the front no less) even though he left the village after Adar and Galadriel. It's just dumb shit over and over that we're just supposed to accept no explanation for. Or 160+ (theonering.com counted) horses with riders that somehow fit on three small boats.
I don't understand what you need to do to completely ignore all this shit, but good for you. I can't turn my brain off to that degree.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Never accept regression or mediocrity.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Suspension of disbelief. Same reason I can watch horribly written movies about superheroes.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Ok. Personally I cannot stand horribly written movies about superheroes, which is different from well written movies about superheroes.