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[akira28]

Exactly. I want to hear a good answer to that first question so badly.

Because other people say it, and they will not be restricted by others. They will not accept someone telling them something they cannot do. Well, someone without guns, or laws, or social mores, or cultural traditions behind them. Or enough peer pressure that they find valid or at least effective.

A minority having problems with it certainly isn't good enough. He's outnumbered by like 20:1. He gets overruled.

 

[Count Dookkake]

-1 internet for you, because whatever

fixed

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Well, if you understand context like Louis CK, then you'll be able to pull it off, without asking for permission either. The fact that Tim Allen doesn't understand the Paula Deen controversy is about more than just her using the word nigger, and chiefly the way she used it, makes me kind of doubt Tim Allen possesses that sort of ability.

And lol, the European mind.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

So martin Lawrence calls you one and then you feel like you should toss it around? I know people of all races who refer to themselves and others as that word for play and for insult. I don't understand why he thinks it would be ok to use it on stage for fun if he knows people generally will disapprove.

You can do whatever the heck you want tim, but I think hes trippin'.

 

[Dion Blaster]

I will never pretend to know what it's like to be hatefully called a nigger, chink, or whatever, but in general I honestly don't get why certain words are taboo. We shouldn't give words so much power. Obviously if people use certain words in a hateful, aggressive, or inappropriate way they deserve some sort of check, but the whole thing just seems silly.

 

[Clevinger]

Context!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLrBLxbLxw

He's coming from the Carlin school of thought on the words.

The only reason CK gets away with it is because he's one of the funniest people on the planet. And even there you can tell he's thought twice about it (and all the racist shitheads who hide behind his standup) after he did his "faggot" poker scene in Louie.

 

[Zaphod]

Why do people want to say this word so badly, knowing the history and context behind it? What do you gain?

Seriously. I always find this urge by some white people to say it rather odd. I just can't think of any moment in my life where I thought to myself "Man, I wish I could say nigger right now." Well, except for the last sentence.

I totally understand when it is used to diminishing the power of the word but I am not a comedian so I will carry on my life using the thousands of english words left to me outside of that one single word.

 

[brandnew]

I once asked my (white) roommate to not yell "nigger" at the top of his lungs at 2:30 am while drinking (he would use it in the same way people would scream fuck or shit if they messed up at something). He got really pissed off (he was a little drunk) and told me no black people are around to be offended and he wouldn't say "nigger" if there were any in the room. He didn't understand why I (white person) would be offended. I was retelling the story to a bunch of friends and one of them (who was black) confronted my roommate through e-mail about it and my roommate got very upset with me, started threatening me, etc. Instead of responding to the black person in the situation, he decided to defend his "first amendment right" to say nigger whenever he wants. He never responded to our black friend and they don't talk to each other anymore.

I guess my point here is that some people (in this case, white people) choose to say it all they want, but out of fear of being labeled a racist will not say it around black people. These are some of my least favorite people in the world.

 

[kingtuck12]

Oh for fucks sake it's just a fucking word
Repeat after me, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga.. still does something to you? keep repeating it. The word doesn't harm, racsim does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x5ZRAVXxr8

 

[.GqueB.]

Because other people say it, and they will not be restricted by others. They will not accept someone telling them something they cannot do. Well, someone without guns, or laws, or social mores, or cultural traditions behind them. Or enough peer pressure that they find valid or at least effective.

A minority having problems with it certainly isn't good enough. He's outnumbered by like 20:1. He gets overruled.

Lol I get that but I don't think that's a good enough reason. Isn't that childish? "I wanna say it so bad but I can't so I wanna say it REALLY REALLY badly."

I don't see any good reason other than that.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

Is there a list of words we can or cannot use on gaf? As long as we are not calling members these names its all good? Im looking for bans lol

 

[inm8num2]

White people have nearly run out of things to which they feel entitled. Currently near the top of the list is 'nigger'. I wonder what's next?

 

[EscoBlades]

lol, your mistake was not grammatical, but philosophical.

How so? Its a word he knows he shouldn't say, and wants to understand why he can't say it. Maybe, like most level headed people, he could just accept that its just one of those things he can't have. He doesn't need to have it. Its nothing to do with intent (his, or anyone elses). There are plenty of other words in the English language that could be used in place of the n word. In this instance, he, and others of that mindset, can really let it slide.

Its not a battle that needs to be fought.

 

[AVclub]

I highly doubt any black person or group of black people gave you permission to call them NIGGERS. And that you're trying to tell me otherwise immediately makes me suspect of your claim of having tons of black pals.

Nonsensical or not, there are two words being discussed here and it has been my experience that the people who always get caught up in this topic are the ones who can't differentiate between the two.

I never said anyone gave me permission to call them anything. I said they gave me permission to use the word. Among my friends it was used a lot like this, "Lui Kang is my nigga! I'll beat all y'all with him." or "When this nigga gonna give me a turn?" or "Niggas need to chill before we get thrown out of the arcade." I'm one of the guys saying, "Maybe you shouldn't use that word all the time. To which I was told "It's cool man, you're one of us. You can use it too if you want."

You can choose to believe me or not, but that doesn't make my point any less valid. Which is, many white people are just as uncomfortable with the word as black people. So maybe nobody should use it to avoid the double-standard and keep it out of this country's lexicon altogether?

 

[Tomat]

Why do people want to say this word so badly, knowing the history and context behind it? What do you gain?

Nobody actually wants to say it. They just want to think they can.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I'd be OK if Tim Allen couldn't say or do anything ever again

 

[GungHo]

Why do people want to say this word so badly, knowing the history and context behind it? What do you gain?

They feel they're being oppressed by the inablity to say it. So, they want to oppress the people who can still say it and take it away from them. After all, if someone oppresses them, everyone's getting oppressed. That's "fair and balanced."

 

[akira28]

Lol I get that but I don't think that's a good enough reason. Isn't that childish? "I wanna say it so bad but I can't so I wanna say it REALLY REALLY badly."

I don't see any good reason other than that.

It definitely isn't a good enough reason, no. But that is the reason for a lot of people. Rebel yell.

Once again, this sound awfully like how the words "faggot" or "gay" are often used. For a forum that has such a significant LBGT population, frequent discussions about gay rights and homophobia, and makes strides to make it as welcoming as possible to the LBGT community, it's hard for me to understand why so many here so readily push racial discussions to the side, defend racism, or act like it's no big deal.

Because words hurt and bring up painful subjects from the past that people may not want to be reminded of.... But not that word! People just need to get over that word. And stop pulling the race card all the time. Because it's unfair.

 

[Count Dookkake]

How so? Its a word he knows he shouldn't say, and wants to understand why he can't say it. Maybe, like most level headed people, he could just accept that its just one of those things he can't have. He doesn't need to have it. Its nothing to do with intent (his, or anyone elses). There are plenty of other words in the English language that could be used in place of the n word. In this instance, he, and others of that mindset, can really let it slide.

Its not a battle that needs to be fought.

That's a lot of blah blah for such a simple exchange.

Go back to your post, note the part I bolded, and what I wrote in response.

 

[freenudemacusers]

White people have nearly run out of things to which they feel entitled. Currently on the list is 'nigger'. I wonder what's next?

We're just trying to get back some of the privileges our forefathers had. please understand.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I guess my point here is that some people (in this case, white people) choose to say it all they want, but out of fear of being labeled a racist will not say it around black people. These are some of my least favorite people in the world.

To some people, being called a racist is worse than actual racism? Sadly, I am not surprised.

 

[Willkiller]

Here's the thing, I've been around black people my entire life, black people in the South and here in my native Chicago, and I honestly can't recall being called a nigger by one. I hate the word, and it wouldn't matter the skin color of the person who lobbed it at me.

Whenever this topic springs up I struggle with conflicting feelings. One, frustration because no one seems to acknowledge the very real difference between nigger and nigga. And two, slight embarrassment, because on the surface it's such a silly distinction that any argument over it would seem ridiculous. So I usually just opt to shut up and watch while people go back and forth about how black folk shouldn't say "nigger" either while quietly thinking to myself, "but I don't..."

Bullshit. At least in the UK

 

[@____@]

I never said anyone gave me permission to call them anything. I said they gave me permission to use the word. Among my friends it was used a lot like this, "Lui Kang is my nigga! I'll beat all y'all with him." or "When this nigga gonna give me a turn?" or "Niggas need to chill before we get thrown out of the arcade." I'm one of the guys saying, "Maybe you shouldn't use that word all the time. To which I was told "It's cool man, you're one of us. You can use it too if you want."

You can choose to believe me or not, but that doesn't make my point any less valid. Which is, many white people are just as uncomfortable with the word as black people. So maybe nobody should use it to avoid the double-standard and keep it out of this country's lexicon altogether?

White folks are going to continue saying it so why shouldn't black folks do the same. The word was used by white people in a deragatory manner and still is. I don't have a problem with black people taking that shit over.

 

[CountAntonius]

Lol I get that but I don't think that's a good enough reason. Isn't that childish? "I wanna say it so bad but I can't so I wanna say it REALLY REALLY badly."

I don't see any good reason other than that.

I think my post was missed.

I really think they just don't understand the outrage. As people who never suffered the sting from it they never will. The fact that the word has such common use by the race which it offends most also baffles them.

I really don't think it's simply a tantrum. I think they just don't understand and can't cause they have never been offended by words in that way. Even as a Mexican you don't see beaner or wetback being thrown around loosely at friends. It's something that just confuses people because it is confusing. I can't think of a reason why ANYONE would want to say the word especially if it's so offensive.

 

[UrbanRats]

The only reason CK gets away with it is because he's one of the funniest people on the planet. And even there you can tell he's thought twice about it (and all the racist shitheads who hide behind his standup) after he did his "faggot" poker scene in Louie.

Well that's really the central point here, i think.
You want to use it in your act exactly because it's a powerful word with a lot of baggage that turns heads and is shocking, so when you use it you're setting yourself up for a lot of scrutiny and you have to take it.
That is why, if you don't want to pass as an imbecile, you have to put thought into it.

I think the same goes for rape jokes or any other offensive and touchy material, you most certainly have (or should have) the freedom to tackle it however you want, but you have to also be prepared to take the scrutiny and pay that price.

This is regard stand up comedy and such.
As far as real life scenarios, i don't speak English outside of GAF, so i wouldn't know, but i wouldn't feel comfortable using it in the slightest.

 

[ido]

It really is all about context, of course.

Truthfully, in some contexts it is used as a term of endearment, and not just by black people.

I generally tend to think most people are educated enough to know when a particular word is being used negatively(example: Paula Dean as opposed to Louis C.K.).

 

[.GqueB.]

I really don't think it's simply a tantrum. I think they just don't understand and can't cause they have never been offended by words in that way. Even as a Mexican you don't see beaner or wetback being thrown around loosely at friends. It's something that just confuses people because it is confusing because I can't think of a reason why ANYONE would want to say the word especially if it's so offensive.

I can see that. It all coming from a place of confusion rather than desire. Not so much that they WANT to say but they wonder why they can't.

 

[CountAntonius]

I can see that. It all coming from a place of confusion rather than desire. Not so much that they WANT to say but they wonder why they can't.

I'm sure there are some people who fit entitled asshole explanation as well I just don't think that's everyone.

 

[Fenderputty]

I can get pushing the boundaries and exploring race relations using comedy and such. His whole tangent on Paula was beyond stupid though. Context is important.

 

[akira28]

Bullshit. At least in the UK

Well we are talking usage in America, not it's adoption in other world regions with different politics, histories and racial situations.

A black person calling another black person a nigger, and making it obvious to stress the "r" so they know the differentiation, would be considered a stiff insult.

 

[EscoBlades]

That's a lot of blah blah for such a simple exchange.

Go back to your post, note the part I bolded, and what I wrote in response.

I'm well aware of what i wrote...that's why i wrote it.

I'm trying to figure why you are so fixated on half the post.

 

[Willkiller]

Well we are talking usage in America, not it's adoption in other world regions with different politics, histories and racial situations.

A black person calling another black person a nigger, and making it obvious to stress the "r" so they know the differentiation, would be considered a stiff insult.

Fair enough.

In that case I find it utterly ridiculous that 'nigga' has taken on the meaning it has.

 

[Dion Blaster]

I really don't think it's simply a tantrum. I think they just don't understand and can't cause they have never been offended by words in that way. Even as a Mexican you don't see beaner or wetback being thrown around loosely at friends. It's something that just confuses people because it is confusing. I can't think of a reason why ANYONE would want to say the word especially if it's so offensive.

Lol, I have a lot of mexican friends here in CA, and I'm part mexican myself (although I don't think anyone would ever identify me as a mexican because of my appearance), I don't know anyone that takes the term beaner seriously. What does it even fucking mean? That I like beans? how offensive. although part of that may be that it seems no one in my generation seems to use it as a form of ridicule, so maybe it was different back in the day.

Wetback seems like a much harsher term though, with obvious racist meaning.

 

[inm8num2]

We're just trying to get back some of the privileges our forefathers had. please understand.

I apologize. I forgot how difficult it is for privileged white males in America.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I'm well aware of what i wrote...that's why i wrote it.

I'm trying to figure why you are so fixated on half the post.

I'm trying to figure out how you got that impression.

 

[Amakusa]

What black person uses the word nigger? Not a single black person I know, says the word nigger. They say Nigga, not nigger.

So please stop saying, black people use the word Nigger. Because we don't

 

[freenudemacusers]

I apologize. I forgot how difficult it is for privileged white males in America.

please keep us in your thoughts. we think about you guys a lot, too.

 

[CountAntonius]

Lol, I have a lot of mexican friends here in CA, and I'm part mexican myself (although I don't think anyone would ever identify me as a mexican because of my appearance), I don't know anyone that takes the term beaner seriously. What does it even fucking mean? That I like beans? how fucking offensive.

My point was you don't see many other races take offensive words and use them casually all the while is still being an offensive word so I think that confuses some people.

What black person uses the word nigger? Not a single black person I know, says the word nigger. They say Nigga, not nigger.

So please stop saying, black people use the word Nigger. Because we don't

fair enough but this kinda lends well to my "it confuses people" point.

 

[Silver_DNA]

From my privileged, not-black perspective: It's not the word, it's how it's used.

It's clear Allen does not want to use the word in malice and that he thinks it is a powerful word that only has power because of its controversy. Deen and her brother, on the other hand, used the word with malice and think the word is something to describe a lower sub-class of human.

I tip toe around the word, but sometimes I just say it to get it over with when a discussion about it comes up.

 

[Dion Blaster]

My point was you don't see many other races take offensive words and use them casually all the while is still being an offensive word so I think that confuses some people.

Yeah I see what you're saying, it does get a bit confusing. It's a good idea to just not say them lol. There's never really a need to use them, the whole idea that a word on its own carrying so much weight just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[T'Zariah]

Heh, imagine Buzz Lightyear dropping the N-Word in Toy Story 4

"To Infinity and beyond, my nigga!"

 

[akira28]

I can see that. It all coming from a place of confusion rather than desire. Not so much that they WANT to say but they wonder why they can't.

Confused then walks way, or confused, hangs around, challenges, and does. Which one lacks desire? I think the desire is pretty clear.

No one wants to hear those words coming out of the mouth of a white man. Well, some people relish the thought, actually. But most of us would like to leave that to the past.

 

[DoomGyver]

I don't think so, Tim.

Bravo.

 

[brandnew]

To some people, being called a racist is worse than actual racism? Sadly, I am not surprised.

Well said.

 

[Amakusa]

Heh, imagine Buzz Lightyear dropping the N-Word in Toy Story 4

"To Infinity and beyond, my nigga!"

That would be amazing...

 

[Midnight Moon]

*waits for Buzz Lightyear images plastered with quotes from Tim Allen*

 

[Enzom21]

I really wish people would stop self censoring the word 'nigger'.

If you have good cause to say then fucking say it!

Censoring yourself just gives the word more power.

What cause would that be?!

Black person pisses you off you call them a nigger?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Well said.

Not really.

I mean, of course an individual will be more bothered by a specific, toxic judgment levied at them than the general misfortune of a group.

See also being falsely accused of rape.

 

[akira28]

Fair enough.

In that case I find it utterly ridiculous that 'nigga' has taken on the meaning it has.

meaning creep. the word became an intracultural slang term after "nigger" stopped being the casual reference term that common whites would use to refer to blacks, it was ultra-informalized with the degraded pronounciation, which made it 'different enough' to become acceptable and not as inflammatory (inside the culture). Of course this was the 70s so you still had plenty of whites calling blacks 'nigger'. But you have a split in meanings and intentions. The 80s comes along and 'negro' is long gone, 'nigger' has gone underground, and 'nigga' is a popular slang term (inside the culture) that gets popularized via culture based media, such as what Paul Mooney and Richard Pryor were doing. So then it becomes part of black media. I'm getting bored of this narrative so we'll fast forward to today and see the various mutations. The meanings and intentions and usages between the two words are pretty clear, except to those who would deny them or ignore them, willfully or not.

 

[sky]

This is one of those topics you keep writing a response to, and then deleting it...