I'm not saying it's "just a word" to downplay people's feelings when they are offended by the word, as in "Don't worry if he called you a nigger. It's just a word". I'm saying it's "just a word" as opposed to magic words. Magic words are the only words that hold power within themselves. You say "Abrakadabra" and the power of the magic word makes the rabbit pop out of the hat. Real words are just the empty vessels we use to communicate meaning. Using a word as a vessel of hate is what gives it it's power. It's the intent, the meaning, that's the power.
Yeah and probably reactions he's getting from his audience that saw him in Santa Claus or Home Improvement and thought they'd get a PG show.I think if he wants to say it he should. No one is really stopping him but his own fear of repercussions.
No one is really stopping him but his own fear of repercussions.
Just like if I wanted to call you shrewd I wouldn't say "well I think your miserly but I mean that in a good way without the negative connotations." I'd just say "you're a very shrewd person." Problem solved with a much greater economy of words.
That circumstance isn't directly analogous though, since the connotation is apparently different based on the ethnic group of the person it's coming from. Theoretically any person could use it without malintent but it's only broadly acceptable if that person belongs to one subset of the population.
.Why do people want to say this word so badly, knowing the history and context behind it? What do you gain?
I feel like if he has something to say using the word then do it. Louis CK did and it was poignant AND hilarious. Its comedy. Nothing is off the table.Yeah and probably reactions he's getting from his audience that saw him in Santa Claus or Home Improvement and thought they'd get a PG show.
There are connotations to words that are beyond your personal control. The word "devious" basically means "crafty," but with negative connotations of being underhanded. If you just want to call someone crafty or clever, then use those words instead. If you want to imply that someone is crafty or clever in an underhanded, evil way, then you should call them devious.
Similarly, if you just want to refer to the black person over there, then simply call them a black person. Or an African American person. If you want to refer to the black person over there and imply they are less than you, then call them a nigger. That is the implication of the word, and you can't personally change that any more than I can insist that calling someone "devious" is actually a compliment.
The reason we have so many words in the first place is that they can all provide very slightly different shades of meaning for the same basic thing. A miserly person is basically a shrewd person is basically a fastidious person is basically a stingy person -- but all of those words have ever so slight distinctions in how they feel when said. I wouldn't mind being called shrewd or economical, but I'd probably mind being labeled miserly or stingy.
i think its a horrible word used to put people down. so are a ton of other words. i dont see why this one word is off limits completely though - to the extent that our culture goes out on witchhunts for anyone that says it irregardless of context.
i think tim is right in that if we remove the taboo, we can reduce its power.
I encourage everyone to use the word that CNN won't say on air and The Times won't print in their news columns. Go ahead, we all know you wanna. Just do it.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Or, more than likely, you're trolling. This entire post is complete nonsense, from the tone, to the hostility, to the blatant generalizations. Seriously, I haven't seem flamebait like that for a while on this forum.If your black friends want to say it, let them. Who the fuck are you to act like you know better. White people love scolding and wagging their fingers at blacks and other minorities on how to act "properly" and what is/isn't permissible, from music to language. I don't care if you have 1 black friend or 100. You're an OUTSIDER and obviously have no greater insight into their culture and customs and should quietly fuck off rather than dictating your holier-than-thou bullshit at something you don't understand.
That term is racist, and I'm pretty sure you're using it because you have poor reading comprehension and didn't understand what I posted.This entire post is white privilege incarnate.
I'm sorry, but in my mind there is no distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" just like there's no distinction between "player" and "playa" or "finger" and "finga" because people use those words interchangeably. Playing the semantics game and trying to create a distinction out of what is essentially a pronunciation issue is silly. I have most certainly heard black folks in the South pronounce it with an "er" at the end. But none of that is the point, is it? Your initial reaction was incorrect and you completely missed what I was trying to say because all you saw was someone posting a bad word.You've quietly changed the word after I've stressed the distinction while still holding on to your argument about there being some double standard. How honest you are. Here, AVclub, this is what you originally said and what I found pretty unlikely:
What black person is going to go, "Hey it's ok to say nigger!"? You were apparently oblivious how ridiculous your claim was, this is a good example of why I normally avoid these sort of topics. I hate getting drawn into a semantic discussion with someone who is clearly confused about the distinction between -ga and -ger. Try calling Lui Kang your nigger next time you're around all of your many black friends and watch their reaction, AV.
It isn't off limits though. Anyone can say nigger but there will be consequences for certain people and none for others.
Give me once example of our culture going after someone for saying nigger where it wasn't being used a racial slur?
I really don't get why white people are so upset that black people can use this word free of consequence and they can't. Is it really that important to you?
White people can't say nigger and I can't:
Walk around the streets of New York without being harassed by police officers.
I can't get a good job without someone thinking I'm an "Affirmative Action hire"
I can't go into a store without being followed or without someone thinking I am going to steal.
I can't wear a hoodie because on me it's part of the "thug" lifestyle.
I can't apply for a job if I have a "black sounding name."
I can't be seen and judged as individual.
I can't receive the same fair trail my white counterpart can.
I can't receive the same prison sentence my white counterpart does for committing the same exact crime.
Etc etc... but hey, white people can't say nigger... the world is so unfair.
Don't forget niggardly.
I agree.
This is why I don't use, and don't desire to use that word, because, currently, it does carry with it the terrible connotation of inferiority.
Normally that would be that, but the unique position the word "nigger" finds itself in is with the initiative to take away that connotation with it's reappropiation. You have one group that uses the word (or at least it's spin-off "nigga") without the negative connotation, while simultaneously insisting other groups can't use it for the exact same connotation that they are trying to remove. It's self-defeating.
Are they actually trying to remove that meaning, or is that connotation just untenable when it's coming from a black person?
I agree.
This is why I don't use, and don't desire to use that word, because, currently, it does carry with it the terrible connotation of inferiority.
Normally that would be that, but the unique position the word "nigger" finds itself in is with the initiative to take away that connotation with it's reappropiation. You have one group that uses the word (or at least it's spin-off "nigga") without the negative connotation, while simultaneously insisting other groups can't use it for the exact same connotation that they are trying to remove. It's self-defeating.
That one thing being unfair does not equal a list of things being unfair doesn't really change the unfairness of either.
Also, I don't think anyone has equated the two.
That term is racist, and I'm pretty sure you're using it because you have poor reading comprehension and didn't understand what I posted.
Not being able to say nigger is unfair?
Yeah I agree. The quote at the end is pretty weird since it seems like he forgot or never knew Louis said it. Even guys like Attell or Stanhope say it, and they're not exactly unknowns in comedy. Like a lot of old white dudes it seems he really doesn't want it to lose its punch he's just desperate to say it, where comics who pull off saying it aren't in that boat. Even if he moved past that he'd still needs an audience who won't cringe at his jokes, which he'll probably never get because of the entertainment he's associated with.I feel like if he has something to say using the word then do it. Louis CK did and it was poignant AND hilarious. Its comedy. Nothing is off the table.
This is coming from a black perso.
Why do white people want to say it anyway?
Why do white people want to say it anyway?
It's like the one privilege they don't have. That's why they want it so bad.
Exactly. Can't own them, shove them into separate schools, or put them in the back of the bus anymore. So the least we can do is remind them of how we used to do those things and the ugly word we used to justify it.
That's the thing, there is a difference. This is why people are saying you have no idea what you're talking about. No black person goes up to their friends saying "Sup niggers". Nigger is the offensive way to say the word. Nigga is usually used as a substitute for bro, dude, guys, all that. It doesn't matter if you don't see it, the difference is there..
I'm sorry, but in my mind there is no distinction between "nigger" and "nigga"
Why do white people want to say it anyway?
Because they aren't racist.
Because in this age where racial equality is such a publicized issue, having a word only a certain race is allowed to say is not very equal.Why do white people want to say it anyway?
Yup.
It may not be as important as other things, but that doesn't change the fact.
EDIT: FWIW, I have no burning desire to say the word. I just like to note things.
How is it unfair? No one is stopping you from saying nigger or discussing nigger.
Because in this age where racial equality is such a publicized issue, having a word only a certain race is allowed to say is not very equal.
So we finally agree.
White people can say it.
No one has said that white people can't say it. They just will deal with a different set of consequences when they do.
Are they actually trying to remove that meaning, or is that connotation just untenable when it's coming from a black person?
This is a rational argument.
And a good rebuttal. The negative implication of the word may be inherently nonsensical when a black person says it to another black person, as the connotation is "my race is better than yours." That connotation is only applicable if my race is different than yours in the first place.
Yes say it all you want when discussing the word.So we finally agree.
White people can say it.
Which is still unfair, but baby steps.
That term is racist, and I'm pretty sure you're using it because you have poor reading comprehension and didn't understand what I posted.
Blame white people for starting it.
Yes say it all you want when discussing the word.
You still can't call black people niggers free from consequence. Does that kill you inside?
Why do white people want to say it anyway?
Baby steps? What is your ultimate goal here? To be able to call black people niggers free of consequence?Which is still unfair, but baby steps.
You're the one who said you call black people niggers when they say it to you and you're the one complaining about not being able to say it. There is no argument to have, your complaints about it being unfair and your use of the word makes things pretty clear.Your repeated attempts at character assassination reveal your lack of argument.
I do honestly lol at your perception of me.
For the cheap seats: I do not want to say the word. I do not use racist terms to describe people.
Baby steps? What is your ultimate goal here? To be able to call black people niggers free of consequence?
You're the one who said you call black people niggers when they say it to you and you're the one complaining about not being able to say it. There is no argument to have, your complaints about it being unfair and your use of the word makes things pretty clear.
Because he's not Louis C.K.
He's that guy from that show with that family and tools. That's it. Stay living in the 90's Allen.
Sounds good to me.Well, once we've taken care of all the other racial problems in this country, and we have full equality for all, then we can discuss expansion for the use of the "n-word."
Well, that was my understanding that "taking it back" implied shedding it of its negative connotation, and I haven't heard otherwise.
Unfortunately, self-hating blacks and those with internalized oppression are not unheard of, so I'm not sure if you could make the blanket statement that it's excluded from being a pejorative just because it's being said between members of the same race.