The N-Word Controversy: Comedian Tim Allen Questions Why He Can't Say N*****

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PBalfredo said:
I'm not saying it's "just a word" to downplay people's feelings when they are offended by the word, as in "Don't worry if he called you a nigger. It's just a word". I'm saying it's "just a word" as opposed to magic words. Magic words are the only words that hold power within themselves. You say "Abrakadabra" and the power of the magic word makes the rabbit pop out of the hat. Real words are just the empty vessels we use to communicate meaning. Using a word as a vessel of hate is what gives it it's power. It's the intent, the meaning, that's the power.
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There are connotations to words that are beyond your personal control. The word "devious" basically means "crafty," but with negative connotations of being underhanded. If you just want to call someone crafty or clever, then use those words instead. If you want to imply that someone is crafty or clever in an underhanded, evil way, then you should call them devious.

Similarly, if you just want to refer to the black person over there, then simply call them a black person. Or an African American person. If you want to refer to the black person over there and imply they are less than you, then call them a nigger. That is the implication of the word, and you can't personally change that any more than I can insist that calling someone "devious" is actually a compliment.
 
Pinko Marx said:
No one is really stopping him but his own fear of repercussions.
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His black employer may take issue......

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Opiate said:
Just like if I wanted to call you shrewd I wouldn't say "well I think your miserly but I mean that in a good way without the negative connotations." I'd just say "you're a very shrewd person." Problem solved with a much greater economy of words.
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That circumstance isn't directly analogous though, since the connotation is apparently different based on the ethnic group of the person it's coming from. Theoretically any person could use it without malintent but it's only broadly acceptable if that person belongs to one subset of the population.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
That circumstance isn't directly analogous though, since the connotation is apparently different based on the ethnic group of the person it's coming from. Theoretically any person could use it without malintent but it's only broadly acceptable if that person belongs to one subset of the population.
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Right, the word nigger is a complex word in this regard. Still, the connotations inherent are pretty universally understood even if they vary based on context. The word has very negative connotations if I say it, and I'm not going to be able to reverse those connotations by stamping my feet and insisting it shouldn't be so.

It also doesn't make sense to insist on it, as I already have plenty of ways to refer to black people in completely acceptable ways. I don't really feel I need another.
 
East Lake said:
Yeah and probably reactions he's getting from his audience that saw him in Santa Claus or Home Improvement and thought they'd get a PG show.
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I feel like if he has something to say using the word then do it. Louis CK did and it was poignant AND hilarious. Its comedy. Nothing is off the table.
This is coming from a black perso.
 
Opiate said:
There are connotations to words that are beyond your personal control. The word "devious" basically means "crafty," but with negative connotations of being underhanded. If you just want to call someone crafty or clever, then use those words instead. If you want to imply that someone is crafty or clever in an underhanded, evil way, then you should call them devious.

Similarly, if you just want to refer to the black person over there, then simply call them a black person. Or an African American person. If you want to refer to the black person over there and imply they are less than you, then call them a nigger. That is the implication of the word, and you can't personally change that any more than I can insist that calling someone "devious" is actually a compliment.
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I agree.

This is why I don't use, and don't desire to use that word, because, currently, it does carry with it the terrible connotation of inferiority.

Normally that would be that, but the unique position the word "nigger" finds itself in is with the initiative to take away that connotation with it's reappropiation. You have one group that uses the word (or at least it's spin-off "nigga") without the negative connotation, while simultaneously insisting other groups can't use it for the exact same connotation that they are trying to remove. It's self-defeating.
 
I encourage everyone to use the word that CNN won't say on air and The Times won't print in their news columns. Go ahead, we all know you wanna. Just do it.
 
The only thing I don't understand about nigga is when people say it is just a term of endearment. Because that isn't necessarily true. I often hear the word used in a hateful or demeaning manner.
 
Opiate said:
The reason we have so many words in the first place is that they can all provide very slightly different shades of meaning for the same basic thing. A miserly person is basically a shrewd person is basically a fastidious person is basically a stingy person -- but all of those words have ever so slight distinctions in how they feel when said. I wouldn't mind being called shrewd or economical, but I'd probably mind being labeled miserly or stingy.
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Don't forget niggardly.
 
op_ivy said:
i think its a horrible word used to put people down. so are a ton of other words. i dont see why this one word is off limits completely though - to the extent that our culture goes out on witchhunts for anyone that says it irregardless of context.

i think tim is right in that if we remove the taboo, we can reduce its power.
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It isn't off limits though. Anyone can say nigger but there will be consequences for certain people and none for others.

Give me once example of our culture going after someone for saying nigger where it wasn't being used a racial slur?

I really don't get why white people are so upset that black people can use this word free of consequence and they can't. Is it really that important to you?

White people can't say nigger and I can't:
Walk around the streets of New York without being harassed by police officers.
I can't get a good job without someone thinking I'm an "Affirmative Action hire"
I can't go into a store without being followed or without someone thinking I am going to steal.
I can't wear a hoodie because on me it's part of the "thug" lifestyle.
I can't apply for a job if I have a "black sounding name."
I can't be seen and judged as individual.
I can't receive the same fair trail my white counterpart can.
I can't receive the same prison sentence my white counterpart does for committing the same exact crime.

Etc etc... but hey, white people can't say nigger... the world is so unfair.
 
Jado said:
If your black friends want to say it, let them. Who the fuck are you to act like you know better. White people love scolding and wagging their fingers at blacks and other minorities on how to act "properly" and what is/isn't permissible, from music to language. I don't care if you have 1 black friend or 100. You're an OUTSIDER and obviously have no greater insight into their culture and customs and should quietly fuck off rather than dictating your holier-than-thou bullshit at something you don't understand.
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Or, more than likely, you're trolling. This entire post is complete nonsense, from the tone, to the hostility, to the blatant generalizations. Seriously, I haven't seem flamebait like that for a while on this forum.

googleplex said:
This entire post is white privilege incarnate.
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That term is racist, and I'm pretty sure you're using it because you have poor reading comprehension and didn't understand what I posted.

Ezenzer said:
You've quietly changed the word after I've stressed the distinction while still holding on to your argument about there being some double standard. How honest you are. Here, AVclub, this is what you originally said and what I found pretty unlikely:

What black person is going to go, "Hey it's ok to say nigger!"? You were apparently oblivious how ridiculous your claim was, this is a good example of why I normally avoid these sort of topics. I hate getting drawn into a semantic discussion with someone who is clearly confused about the distinction between -ga and -ger. Try calling Lui Kang your nigger next time you're around all of your many black friends and watch their reaction, AV.
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I'm sorry, but in my mind there is no distinction between "nigger" and "nigga" just like there's no distinction between "player" and "playa" or "finger" and "finga" because people use those words interchangeably. Playing the semantics game and trying to create a distinction out of what is essentially a pronunciation issue is silly. I have most certainly heard black folks in the South pronounce it with an "er" at the end. But none of that is the point, is it? Your initial reaction was incorrect and you completely missed what I was trying to say because all you saw was someone posting a bad word.
 
enzom21 said:
It isn't off limits though. Anyone can say nigger but there will be consequences for certain people and none for others.

Give me once example of our culture going after someone for saying nigger where it wasn't being used a racial slur?

I really don't get why white people are so upset that black people can use this word free of consequence and they can't. Is it really that important to you?

White people can't say nigger and I can't:
Walk around the streets of New York without being harassed by police officers.
I can't get a good job without someone thinking I'm an "Affirmative Action hire"
I can't go into a store without being followed or without someone thinking I am going to steal.
I can't wear a hoodie because on me it's part of the "thug" lifestyle.
I can't apply for a job if I have a "black sounding name."
I can't be seen and judged as individual.
I can't receive the same fair trail my white counterpart can.
I can't receive the same prison sentence my white counterpart does for committing the same exact crime.

Etc etc... but hey, white people can't say nigger... the world is so unfair.
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That one thing being unfair does not equal a list of things being unfair doesn't really change the unfairness of either.

Also, I don't think anyone has equated the two.


Riposte said:
Don't forget niggardly.
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lol. I expected that after "miserly."
 
PBalfredo said:
I agree.

This is why I don't use, and don't desire to use that word, because, currently, it does carry with it the terrible connotation of inferiority.

Normally that would be that, but the unique position the word "nigger" finds itself in is with the initiative to take away that connotation with it's reappropiation. You have one group that uses the word (or at least it's spin-off "nigga") without the negative connotation, while simultaneously insisting other groups can't use it for the exact same connotation that they are trying to remove. It's self-defeating.
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This is a rational argument.

mavs said:
Are they actually trying to remove that meaning, or is that connotation just untenable when it's coming from a black person?
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And a good rebuttal. The negative implication of the word may be inherently nonsensical when a black person says it to another black person, as the connotation is "my race is better than yours." That connotation is only applicable if my race is different than yours in the first place.
 
PBalfredo said:
I agree.

This is why I don't use, and don't desire to use that word, because, currently, it does carry with it the terrible connotation of inferiority.

Normally that would be that, but the unique position the word "nigger" finds itself in is with the initiative to take away that connotation with it's reappropiation. You have one group that uses the word (or at least it's spin-off "nigga") without the negative connotation, while simultaneously insisting other groups can't use it for the exact same connotation that they are trying to remove. It's self-defeating.
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Are they actually trying to remove that meaning, or is that connotation just untenable when it's coming from a black person?
 
Count Dookkake said:
That one thing being unfair does not equal a list of things being unfair doesn't really change the unfairness of either.

Also, I don't think anyone has equated the two.
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Not being able to say nigger is unfair?

I did not say anyone equated the two but some people here are seriously complaining about not being able to say nigger. You don't find that absurd at all?
 
Pinko Marx said:
I feel like if he has something to say using the word then do it. Louis CK did and it was poignant AND hilarious. Its comedy. Nothing is off the table.
This is coming from a black perso.
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Yeah I agree. The quote at the end is pretty weird since it seems like he forgot or never knew Louis said it. Even guys like Attell or Stanhope say it, and they're not exactly unknowns in comedy. Like a lot of old white dudes it seems he really doesn't want it to lose its punch he's just desperate to say it, where comics who pull off saying it aren't in that boat. Even if he moved past that he'd still needs an audience who won't cringe at his jokes, which he'll probably never get because of the entertainment he's associated with.
 
AVclub said:
.


I'm sorry, but in my mind there is no distinction between "nigger" and "nigga"
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That's the thing, there is a difference. This is why people are saying you have no idea what you're talking about. No black person goes up to their friends saying "Sup niggers". Nigger is the offensive way to say the word. Nigga is usually used as a substitute for bro, dude, guys, all that. It doesn't matter if you don't see it, the difference is there.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Yup.

It may not be as important as other things, but that doesn't change the fact.

EDIT: FWIW, I have no burning desire to say the word. I just like to note things.
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How is it unfair? No one is stopping you from saying nigger or discussing nigger.

The two things you can't do is use it as a term of endearment or call black people niggers free of consequence and I think is really the issue here.
 
TUROK said:
Because in this age where racial equality is such a publicized issue, having a word only a certain race is allowed to say is not very equal.
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Well, once we've taken care of all the other racial problems in this country, and we have full equality for all, then we can discuss expansion for the use of the "n-word."
 
mavs said:
Are they actually trying to remove that meaning, or is that connotation just untenable when it's coming from a black person?
Click to expand...

Opiate said:
This is a rational argument.

And a good rebuttal. The negative implication of the word may be inherently nonsensical when a black person says it to another black person, as the connotation is "my race is better than yours." That connotation is only applicable if my race is different than yours in the first place.
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Well, that was my understanding that "taking it back" implied shedding it of its negative connotation, and I haven't heard otherwise.

Unfortunately, self-hating blacks and those with internalized oppression are not unheard of, so I'm not sure if you could make the blanket statement that it's excluded from being a pejorative just because it's being said between members of the same race.
 
AVclub said:
That term is racist, and I'm pretty sure you're using it because you have poor reading comprehension and didn't understand what I posted.
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1. White privilege is not a racist term

2. My reading comprehension is just fine. You think its unfair that black people can use the term and you can't.

3.Then you proceeded to make an incredibly stupid and racist statement that some how black people are OK with blacks killing black, but aren't Ok with Zimmerman.

4.Your post was full of shit and white privilege.

Due to the history of the term Nigga You don't get to use that word as a "white dude". Get over it!
 
Alligatorjandro said:
Blame white people for starting it.
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You don't say...


enzom21 said:
Yes say it all you want when discussing the word.
You still can't call black people niggers free from consequence. Does that kill you inside?
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Your repeated attempts at character assassination reveal your lack of argument.

I do honestly lol at your perception of me.

For the cheap seats: I do not want to say the word. I do not use racist terms to describe people.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Which is still unfair, but baby steps.
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Baby steps? What is your ultimate goal here? To be able to call black people niggers free of consequence?

Count Dookkake said:
Your repeated attempts at character assassination reveal your lack of argument.

I do honestly lol at your perception of me.

For the cheap seats: I do not want to say the word. I do not use racist terms to describe people.
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You're the one who said you call black people niggers when they say it to you and you're the one complaining about not being able to say it. There is no argument to have, your complaints about it being unfair and your use of the word makes things pretty clear.
 
enzom21 said:
Baby steps? What is your ultimate goal here? To be able to call black people niggers free of consequence?
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lol, no.

I think you may have missed an earlier post that would have saved you much excitement.

enzom21 said:
You're the one who said you call black people niggers when they say it to you and you're the one complaining about not being able to say it. There is no argument to have, your complaints about it being unfair and your use of the word makes things pretty clear.
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The bolded statement is not true and you have already had that explained to you.

You should stop lying.
 
GQman2121 said:
Because he's not Louis C.K.

He's that guy from that show with that family and tools. That's it. Stay living in the 90's Allen.
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Well, I live in the UK and as such only know the dude as Buzz Lightyear.

Buzz Lightyear comes from another galaxy, in another dimension. He could say the n word and everyone would be cool with it.
 
someday said:
Well, once we've taken care of all the other racial problems in this country, and we have full equality for all, then we can discuss expansion for the use of the "n-word."
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Sounds good to me.

Of course, I'm not white, so nigga this and nigga that.
 
PBalfredo said:
Well, that was my understanding that "taking it back" implied shedding it of its negative connotation, and I haven't heard otherwise.

Unfortunately, self-hating blacks and those with internalized oppression are not unheard of, so I'm not sure if you could make the blanket statement that it's excluded from being a pejorative just because it's being said between members of the same race.
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It's not excluded. It's just absurd, and/or pitiable. Whereas coming from a white person, it is neither.

I wasn't kidding in my last post either.
 
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