Support NeoGAF

[chicko1983]

Funny enough if you were to ask me which side in the world regularly get reverse swing out of nowhere on a regular basis it wouldn't really be South Africa, it would be England who somehow manage to get it regardless of pitch and outfield condition.

I would say England also. It is not coincidental that the time since England learnt about reverse swing (coming into the 2005 Ashes) has coincided with the professional ball handlers (cook and collingwood) and long sleeve shining and accusations of using lolly spit.

Sth Africa, and Steyn in particular, have only been keen on reverse swing in the last couple of years that I have seen. If you look at Steyn's bowling in the last couple of years, he starts off slow (for him slow is 130-135km/hr) then once the ball is reversing his second and third spells are faster and all reverse. Its like he has learnt to conserve himself until it reverse swings and then he goes full bore when it is reversing.

Steyn does it for preservation i.e. he doesnt need to push himself as hard if it is reverse swinging because reverse swing is harder to play. This is why he doesnt take as many wickets these days with conventional swing and the new ball as he did when he was younger and bowled faster.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Don't you need to bowl pretty fast to get reverse swing as opposed to conventional swing?

 

[chicko1983]

Don't you need to bowl pretty fast to get reverse swing as opposed to conventional swing?

Akram said you need to bowl over 130km/hr as a rule of thumb.

But yeah, the theory is that the faster you bowl the easier it is to reverse swing.

Brett Lee, Ahktar, Younis - all very quick and all great reverse swingers.

Tampering the ball helps you bowl reverse swing at slower speeds compared to 145km/hr.

 

[Jezbollah]

Just saw the score. Holy shit!

 

[chicko1983]

Just thinking about it off the top of my head, Shane Watson would be the slowest bowler who bowls reverse swing I can think of.

He is low 130s and it doesnt reverse that much when he bowls. His trick is to bowl from as close to the wicket as possible so that small movement seems bigger.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I think that's the first time I've seen a genuine LBW appeal get driven for 4. :lol

 

[chicko1983]

I think that's the first time I've seen a genuine LBW appeal get driven for 4. :lol

I thought the previous appeal, from Broad was out, but they have yet to show a replay!

 

[3Sixty]

I thought the previous appeal, from Broad was out, but they have yet to show a replay!

Was sliding down leg.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I thought the previous appeal, from Broad was out, but they have yet to show a replay!

If it's the one I'm thinking then they showed it heading down leg on hawkeye.

 

[chicko1983]

Was sliding down leg.

Sorry, I mustve missed the replay when I was typing.

Did it miss by much?

 

[Antiwhippy]

How have they not bowled more at the stumps at dhoni? He looks like a big LBW candidate.

Like that.

 

[kmag]

Jimmy is really good. His stats are deflated by his crappy pre2010 stats and being over bowled. He's a class below Steyn, yes, but they are the two leading bowlers of their sides. It is easy to see why it was hyped that way. Jimmy lacks the pace to really match Steyn and is a little one dimensional when there is no swing.



Eh England do it too. The only ones I don't believe do it are probably India, maybe Sri Lanka.

The thing is his pre 2010 (test average of 34.85) can't just be wished away it did actually happen. Even since then if you take his stats from 1st Jan 2010, his average is 26.72 which is very good but Steyn (21.85), Philander (21.09) Harris (22.56) and Roach (26.47) all have better averages of seamers who have played at least 20 tests in that time. And Boult, Southee and Johnson aren't exactly miles behind in terms of average despite in two of those cases being early in their careers.

Anderson's a good bowler who is extremely reliant on overheads he has a couple of factors in his favour 1. the sheer amount of test cricket England play and 2. His extraordinary lack of injuries allowing him to play those tests. It's allowed him to accumulate a shed load of wickets.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Seriously, I think cook needs to learn from clarke by learning how to manage your main strike bowler. I don't think even harris gets 9 over spells, though to be fair he's only bowling on one knee.

 

[kmag]

Cracking stat:

The last 3 times England have had a team 4 down for less than 25 on day 1, they have lost the Test

Don't see it here, while Kumar would have been pretty dangerous this morning, it's the pace which has done the damage. The weather forecast made Dhoni's decision strange, with the forecast for an extremely disrupted test especially on day 4 and day 5 then I'd have been tempted to try and get the opposition in and out cheaply. The only way you could lose this match was to bat first and collapse.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Jordan has been super inconsistent with his lines.

 

[kmag]

Jordan has been super inconsistent with his lines.

It's working for him a bit, he's been so wayward that the batters are leaving most balls. England don't desperately need wickets you can bore Dhoni into giving his wicket away.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's working for him a bit, he's been so wayward that the batters are leaving most balls. England don't desperately need wickets you can bore Dhoni into giving his wicket away.

Been bowling better last over, to be fair on him.

I'm also pretty impressed with rahane this series. Been the best indian bat (I'd even say the best bat of both teams with ballance being second) this series.

 

[Steverulez]

Hopefully that will see Jordan perk up now, good wicket and I'm glad we got another one before lunch

 

[3Sixty]

Not really a Jordan fan.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Welp, just as I said it...

Should have left that though.

 

[kmag]

India do realise you don't have to play at that sort of delivery. Mindless batting from them. What is it with them and rewarding terrible bowling?

Dhoni really goofed this morning. With the weather forecast the only way to lose this match was to bat first and collapse.

India really need to somehow see the day out but that's a bit difficult when you're 5 down at lunch with two batters at the crease who can't defend.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Why is a person with 2 test hundreds batting below jadeja?

India do realise you don't have to play at that sort of delivery. Mindless batting from them. What is it with them and rewarding terrible bowling?

Dhoni really goofed this morning. With the weather forecast the only way to lose this match was to bat first and collapse.

To be fair I don't think anyone expects the indian top 4, who are quality players, to play so terribly.

 

[kmag]

Why is a person with 2 test hundreds batting below jadeja?



To be fair I don't think anyone expects the indian top 4, who are quality players, to play so terribly.

Why not? Gambhir has just been recalled to the side after 18 months, and by all accounts has been terrible in the nets, and Kolhi is woefully out of nick/has had serious issues off stump exposed. The overheads were in Englands favour all it would take is a couple of failures from Pujara and Vijay or them getting a couple of cracking balls for a top order collapse to be in the offing. They couldn't rely on 2 of their top 4, and England's tails were up after the last test, but whoever was batting first this morning was going to be in for a tricky hour with the conditions.

With the last two days a potential and likely washout, the only way to lose the test is for the team batting first to get bowled out cheaply, everything else probably takes too much time out of the test.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Eh, the last time I was hoping that the weather will save a team, dale steyn reverse swung the Australian 3-11 for 22 runs and it turned out that it was sunny instead of raining on the last day. Can't just play for weather all the time.

I still say that you would at least expect a top 4 of a top quality international side to survive swinging conditions. You really can't expect a top-quality top order to collapse to 8-4 even with high quality bowling. Maybe gambhir and kohli are uncertainties form wise but vijay had a really good series and pujara generally played really well, it's just that he can't convert it to a big score.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Why the fuck is broad bowling so short and wide. Aim at the stumps FFS.

Also again why did jadeja bat in front of ashwin?

 

[kmag]

Why the fuck is broad bowling so short and wide. Aim at the stumps FFS.

Also again why did jadeja bat in front of ashwin?

Jadeja is Dhoni's big mate is he not? Same manager and agent. Dhoni essentially runs the Indian international sides. I can get why they might not play Ashwin outside of the subcontinent his bowling figures are pretty poor 'abroad', but he's an extremely handy allrounder at test level even on wickets which don't suit him.

 

[Antiwhippy]

They said the same thing about ashwin (at least when I followed the IPL) so I dunno if it's that. Just seems weird that ashwin is batting so low when he has shown that he can bat, whereas jadeja is more of slogger, which I love, but they need to be down the order.

 

[kmag]

They said the same thing about ashwin (at least when I followed the IPL) so I dunno if it's that. Just seems weird that ashwin is batting so low when he has shown that he can bat, whereas jadeja is more of slogger, which I love, but they need to be down the order.

Ashwin is out now anyway, another Indian gone to a shot he had no business trying to play and certainly no need to. If they had any discipline at all they'd still be 1 up in this series instead of looking down the barrel of 2-1.

 

[Antiwhippy]

To be fair, you could say that if england were more disciplined in their bowling and didn't play shots that weren't there to be played, they would be staring down at 3-0 atm.

It is disconcerting when dhoni is the most disciplined one of the top 6.

Also buttler is keeping like a seal today.

 

[Steverulez]

Bowled him! That was a bit of an odd one, seems to get big on him?

 

[kmag]

Looks like England will be batting in some lovely sunshine very soon.

 

[kmag]

Bowled him! That was a bit of an odd one, seems to get big on him?

Left it on length although it was too full for that, if anything it looked like it kept lower than he thought.

 

[3Sixty]

Darted back in too.

The tailender in me would have tipped my hat.

 

[Mindwipe]

I'm almost glad it's going to piss down tomorrow, otherwise I'd be getting worried about my tickets for day four at this rate.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Jesus christ this betting ad with swann always grates on me.

Good knock by dhoni. Needed others to stand up too though.

 

[Steverulez]

Punkaj didn't really seem up for it at the end there. Broad knew he just needed to get it on the stumps. Good day for England so far.

 

[kmag]

I'm almost glad it's going to piss down tomorrow, otherwise I'd be getting worried about my tickets for day four at this rate.

I hate to tell you it's going to piss down on Sunday and Monday as well, looking like a potential wash out on those days. They might get a decent session in tomorrow morning, Saturday looks relatively decent.

All done. 6 ducks in an innings. Terrible batting from India.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Seriously though, if dhoni can score 71 there's no reason the other 5 batsmen before him can't at least make a start.

 

[Mindwipe]

I hate to tell you it's going to piss down on Sunday and Monday as well, looking like a potential wash out on those days. They might get a decent session in tomorrow morning, Saturday looks relatively decent.

Oh I know. But y'know, long term weather forecasts are never a done deal and I think there'd be some play on Sunday. I've got tickets for Saturday too, so I'm pretty confident I'll get to see a good day's play now.

 

[kmag]

Oh I know. But y'know, long term weather forecasts are never a done deal and I think there'd be some play on Sunday. I've got tickets for Saturday too, so I'm pretty confident I'll get to see a good day's play now.

There's a huge body of rain from the remains of Hurricane Bertha probably hitting the UK on Sunday and Monday, it might actually skirt Manchester as current models are showing it hitting further south but still with the North West getting a soaking, but historical data suggests these tend to move further North as they cross the Atlantic.

The current guidance for Sunday is

The remains of hurricane Bertha, over the western side of the Atlantic on Thursday morning, will come steadily towards the UK. The transition from a tropical to an extra-tropical feature is a particularly hard one to forecast with confidence, and computer models continue to differ in the location and intensity of the resulting depression, which is expected to pass over, or close to, the UK from early on Sunday.

There is the potential for widespread rainfall totals of more than 50 mm and coastal gusts of over 60 mph, along with large waves. However, the system may pass harmlessly to the south of the country. or spread heavy rain even further north, and the public are advised to keep up to date with warnings.

We'll find out more tomorrow as the modelling should firm up the track then, but at the very least there should be some loss of play tomorrow and on Sunday. With a good chance that tomorrow afternoon and evening sessions will be lost.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Man, what's with the constant booing from the crowds?

 

[Gareth Bale]

Kohli can't seem to do anything against Jimmy Anderson

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah... you poms can keep robson.

 

[3Sixty]

Can't see Robson as an opener.

 

[3Sixty]

Oh Cookie.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Welp, can't see India getting out of this unless there's a heavy rainout. At least varun aron looks good.

 

[mclem]

Welp, can't see India getting out of this unless there's a heavy rainout. At least varun aron looks good.

There's a high chance of heavy rain for the last two days, though. Which does raise the question: When do you declare?

 

[Steverulez]

There's a high chance of heavy rain for the last two days, though. Which does raise the question: When do you declare?

Im not expecting England to last much longer than 300 if not slightly less, 4 down already looks a bit overcast(?) and wickets have fallen, even if 3 of them went pretty cheaply...

So I doubt declaring will be an issue but they need to get at least 100 lead

 

[mclem]

Yeah, they mentioned in the roundup last night that it's possibly *best* for England if they concede a few wickets, otherwise they might fall into a trap of trying to hold out too long.

...and just as I said that, Boycott said much the same on TMS.

 

[kmag]

Raining just now, and while they might get on for a bit around 15:00 there's a shed load more due about 16:00.

Tomorrow should be dry though.

The track for the remnants of Hurricane Bertha has firmed up and is now hitting the North West on Sunday. They could lose the entire day. Monday could go either way weather wise but is expected to have some strong showers.

Still plenty of time to bowl this India side out again though England probably don't want to hang around when they get back out.