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The Nightmare of Druaga - Gamespot review

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Nobody knows who I really am!
 
Once again, a reviewer misses the POINT of a roguelike.

Some people LIKE move-by-move grid traversal, abstract turn-based mechanics, and item farming. A LOT.

Just as how some folks like playing car collection games or detailed sports simulations. It ain't for everyone, but the LEAST they could do is acknowledge it by having a genre fan review the game.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Once again, a reviewer fails to miss the POINT of a roguelike.

Some people LIKE move-by-move grid traversal, abstract turn-based mechanics, and item farming. A LOT.

Just as how some folks like playing car collection games or detailed sports simulations. It ain't for everyone, but the LEAST they could do is acknowledge it by having a genre fan review the game.

Well, I can't say I enjoy item farming in rogue-likes either, but that's generally not the point of the game. This review seems to harp on a lot of other staples of how rogue-likes work, though, and makes an odd comment about Nethack, so I'm not sure how to interpret it. I mean, some of the gameplay features mentioned do sound annoying (like the one-time dungeon quest stuff), but others seem pretty intrinsic to how the game works (no save-reload spamming).

Hrm...
 
JackFrost2012 said:
Why the roguelike roguehate? :(

I have no idea. :(

My concern with Druaga right now is: spend 50+ CDN on an unknown level of quality, or just blow more time on Nethack, which is always damned good and 100% free.
 

Rahul

Member
ray's preview at Crunk is far more interesting (even though it's a preview)

RAY said:
It's widely known that dungeon RPGs aren't the most swift adventure games out there, taking the concept of "plodding" to new horizons. Through this, Nightmare of Druaga deals with encounters via the At-Once Turn System, or ATS. Turn-based though it may be, actions take precedence depending on who acts the fastest, but Gil still goes first if both sides act simultaneously. Colored shadows under enemies will tell you their attack speeds -- blue is slower, red is faster, none is about equal. Conversely, if you become too powerful for some enemies, you can walk by them without incident. Who knows how much good ATS will really do, since Gil moves in the familiar square-by-square formations.
http://www.crunkgames.com/previews/ps2/druaga/
 
That 1up feature was great! And I never woulda read it had it not been linked from here, cuz all that Flash makes 1up the worst site on earth.

That Gamespot review stinks.
 

ferricide

Member
Drinky Crow said:
...the LEAST they could do is acknowledge it by having a genre fan review the game.
i don't think anyone who likes them actually has a job reviewing games. i'm not really kidding.

if you guys know the reviews are going to suck why do you even care what it gets? i hate to use something that even vaguely appears to be the game informer defense here, but nobody is going to want to play this game. at all. so the score at least represents what 99.9% of the gaming populace. even freaks like me who LOVE teh JRPGs and actually know what legend of druaga is and liked the druaga dungeon in baten kaitos don't even wanna play it. =)
 

Alex

Member
Dungeon Crawlers >>> traditional JRPG's. It's true.

Well, I'll pick it up at least. PS2 has been good fun for wacky dungeon-focused games of all types.

I guess I'm just warped though. I like huge-ass challenging dungeons, even of the randomized and repetitive size, loot collection and item farming, wacky combat schemes and punching players in the gut for fucking up. Those are the staples of gaming for me.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
I fucking hope my TRU gets it in. Perfect 3rd game.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Alex said:
Dungeon Crawlers >>> traditional JRPG's. It's true.

Boy I'm sure glad Grandia Xtreme was >>> Grandia!

Oh and those Chocobo Mysterious Dungeons really outdid all the traditional FF games ;)

I'd say less than <.1% of gamers really love straight out Dungeon Crawlers . Dungeon Crawlers disguised as a traditional rpgs (BoFV, SMTIII, DDS) are a much smarter choice for a game company as they can appease the small group of dungeon crawler fans and also have the chance to make a game with mass appeal.
 

Alex

Member
If Grandia Xtreme was as polished up and well planned as it should've been in superficial aspects and flow, It would've pissed all over Grandia. as it stands it's not exactly that far down from it, and is certainly a shitton better than Grandia II. Grandia X fuckin' rocks.

"Oh and those Chocobo Mysterious Dungeons really outdid all the traditional FF games ;)"

And now you're just being dumb, you see, they all suck. If you suck and outdo something else that sucks, it's not really bragable. :p

Meatier gameplay and total lack of bullshit Japanese story-telling in most cases = win.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Alex said:
And now you're just being dumb, you see, they all suck. If you suck and outdo something else that sucks, it's not really bragable. :p

Chocobo's Dungeon and Druaga's dev are the same, no?
 
ferricide said:
but nobody is going to want to play this game. at all. so the score at least represents what 99.9% of the gaming populace. even freaks like me who LOVE teh JRPGs and actually know what legend of druaga is and liked the druaga dungeon in baten kaitos don't even wanna play it. =)

You know that just told me more information of value than the entire review, right?
 
if you guys know the reviews are going to suck why do you even care what it gets?

Because we apparently quite FOOLISHLY assume that the reviewer MAY know what he/she is talking about, and that relative to other roguelikes Druaga is in fact worthy of a low score.

Then I read better-screed fan reviews of it on other forums which praise it highly, from folks who know the history and mechanics of roguelike games, and my trust in Gamespot's review staff is diminished even further.

Who gives a fuck if a genre is "unpopular"? Christ, no one likes music games, either, but Japanophile reviewers have no problem giving those games high marks. Reviewers aren't there to judge the popularity of a game's mechanics if they've been consistently and demonstrably proven as fun to a core group of gamers.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
I'm pretty sure Arika developed Druaga, so despite all this genre hob-knobbing, I remain pretty apprehensive until one of you guinea pigs can give a solid report.

Let's face it, people interested in this game had already made up their mind to buy this the day it was announced(or have kept it close enough in thought making an impulse purchase highly likely), and the uninformed probably wouldn't give a fuck about it deeming any review pandering pretty worthless. If you read this forum, you are pretty much way ahead on that curve.

It is a shame, specifically for the niche audience, that there likely won't be a big enough geek to flower praise and lavish rich details to get your blood boiling further(except Kitsune I guess), but it should be plainly obvious that if you read the first picture caption in GS review "Ever played Moria or Nethack? That's the kind of throwback we're talking here" and can actually decipher that phrase...then it's pretty safe to guess this game would appeal to you.
 
Brandon F said:
It is a shame, specifically for the niche audience, that there likely won't be a big enough geek to flower praise and lavish rich details to get your blood boiling further(except Kitsune I guess), but it should be plainly obvious that if you read the first picture caption in GS review "Ever played Moria or Nethack? That's the kind of throwback we're talking here" and can actually decipher that phrase...then it's pretty safe to guess this game would appeal to you.

Appeal doesn't mean much if gameplay deficiencies kick in around the first minute of play and the niche audience wishes they were playing Nethack instead.

In my mind, the biggest problem for the game right now is the same thing Eidos ran into with the start of their Fresh Games label: price. Druaga is arguably as much or more of a niche title as Katamari, and yet the price is double.

I'd love to just buy it and find out how much fun it really is, but at this time of year I would like to look for reviews first before I blow that much money, and now we can't really even do that and get a result of much value.
 

jarrod

Banned
RevenantKioku said:
Chocobo's Dungeon and Druaga's dev are the same, no?
No actually, ChunSoft just handled coding the base engines for both games. Square developed Chocobo's Dungeon 1-2 inhouse then (Bandai did the WS game) and Arika developed Druaga (using the Torneko 3 engine).
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Crazymoogle said:
Appeal doesn't mean much if gameplay deficiencies kick in around the first minute of play and the niche audience wishes they were playing Nethack instead.

Of course! Which is why I still have trepidation surrounding purchase despite my conceived interests which I clearly stated above.
 

duckroll

Member
Alex said:
I have no idea. I just like making fun of Final Fantasy.

You say that...... yet....... you have a SO3 avatar.....
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 

ferricide

Member
Drinky Crow said:
Who gives a fuck if a genre is "unpopular"? Christ, no one likes music games, either, but Japanophile reviewers have no problem giving those games high marks.
that's not what i meant and you should understand that. you know i'm not a stupid asshole high-and-mighty OMG I WORK FOR A MAG AND U DONT type. =)

what i'm saying is -- the genre is actually so unpopular that i don't believe that most publications *actually employ someone who appreciates it.* hence nobody can really review it as a roguelike, at least not with the depth and specificity you're looking for. hell, i (rather generally) understand the concept of roguelikes and i've played nethack before (albeit extremely briefly because i didn't see the appeal) ... but i still wouldn't be able to meet your criteria for a fair review of it, i'm sure.

thus the people who do end up reviewing it take the game at face value and just ... review it as a game. sure, they might mentally compare it to "wrong" games by your reckoning, but it's judged on its own merits. do they find it fun? nope. not really. i think that's a valid approach. nobody's saying THIS GAME IS NOT FF IT SUX (or whatever you're fantasizing.) at least not that i've read, but i haven't checked out the gamespot and IGN reviews yet.

people are playing it, and not liking it, and that's predictable. it certainly sounds as if it has annoying flaws. if you know you're going to potentially like it, then ... great! but it's going to *truly* appeal to a select few people at best, none of whom magazines or websites can really speak to as an audience. so i don't think (general) audiences are being failed by (fair) reviews that don't exclusively cater to fans of an all-but-dead sub-genre of games. call me crazy.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
jarrod said:
No actually, ChunSoft just handled coding the base engines for both games. Square developed Chocobo's Dungeon 1-2 inhouse then (Bandai did the WS game) and Arika developed Druaga (using the Torneko 3 engine).

I knew ChunSoft had their hands in both of them, just not sure how much.

Now the question is, will TRU fucking stock it?
 
I posted this in the TRU thread, but I guess I'll mention it here, too: the TRU by me had 3 or 4 copies. Meanwhile Gamestop did not get my FULLY PREPAID copy in. And it took 20 minutes for them to find my damn preorder slip and give me my money back, which I then took and bought the game at another store. I give up on these specialty shops.

Haven't played it yet, as it's currently copying to my HD (4 gigs! Did they really need to dummy it that much??) but the manual is fantastic. Full color, and has a bunch of the cute art that the Japanese manual did. Namco Hometek have become incredibly cool these last few months. And I just realized I bought 4 Namco games today. OY!
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Woo, my TRU did get it. I'm shocked, and one copy of SMT slipped in, hope my coworker enjoys it, I completely convinced him to buy it, haha.
Anyway, this is going in once my roommate is done with GTA for the night, I'm quite excited actually.
Namco is really kicking ass this year too, and Driller for the DS is so mine.
 
Let us know what you think. I had to bail out for financial reasons, so I guess when I'm not playing Taiko I'll go back to Nethack.
 
ferricide said:
what i'm saying is -- the genre is actually so unpopular that i don't believe that most publications *actually employ someone who appreciates it.* hence nobody can really review it as a roguelike, at least not with the depth and specificity you're looking for. hell, i (rather generally) understand the concept of roguelikes and i've played nethack before (albeit extremely briefly because i didn't see the appeal) ... but i still wouldn't be able to meet your criteria for a fair review of it, i'm sure.

Well see that's the thing, most people who adore dungeon crawlers (myself included) also like "teh normal" JRPGs, SRPGs and Strat games as well. That's a pretty broad range of game genres, and that doesn't even take into account non-turnbased types of games.

You'd think that mags would choose someone whos likes go beyond the norm in terms of genres. I'm not complaining exactly here, nor am I implying that your post is horribly terribly wrong or anything. It just seems rather odd. Then again, we tend to be assholes/pricks/elitist scum/etc., so I guess that might be it. :p


That said, I'm probably going to try and get Druaga, but since I can't even afford SMTIII yet (and I am #1 Persona whore, let alone SMT fan), it probably won't be awhile.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Now bear with me, as I've never played a Fushigi no Dungeon before, but I have played nethack quite a bit and enjoyed it. Still can't get it running on my iBook though, well the command line one that is, its having some write protection issues, but that's another story.
I'm enjoying it. NoD has this really nostalgic feeling to it, and I never played those old arcade games either, it kinda brings me back to shit like Haunted House on Atari, or playing some text adventure game on the C64. I don't know why, but it really gives me that vibe, and I like that. Or like playing Hydlide on the NES, except the game doesn't suck.
But anyway, onto the game itself. Just talking with the characters in the town, what with inscribing items so you don't lose them when you die and you can only inscribe one at the beginning, taking on quests with level caps and restricted items/equipment, transferring skills amongst equipment, there's more to this game than I originally thought. Although load times are pretty annoying I'll say. Walking through the town you get hit with a few seconds if you switch zones. Traversing the actual dungeons at first felt a little slow, but once you get to more meatier, more enemy filled floors, it just begins to feel smoother. Something about the tiles always being at that slight angle bugs me as well, and I'm not sure why, but it is still obvious where you'll go when you press a direction. For those of you unfamiliar with the games, it works on turns. Each time you take a step, or attack, or pass a turn, then the enemies can move attack and what not. The game also lets you know by the color underneath an enemy whether it will attack before or after you. To piss off some people, I'm gonna draw a comparison to Unlimited Saga here, as you can pass turns to get HP back. Not exactly fair though, as after a certain number of turns pass you'll get some HP back even if you're not passing them. But too many turns go by and your field of vision narrows it seems. I'm gonna have to make some offerings to Ishtar apparently.
Anyway, there's a lot more to the game than my half-assed review notes, and I might have gotten some of it wrong. Personally, I'm enjoying the whole not knowing a damn thing about it other than it shares the name of a tower in Tales of Destiny that was based off an old Namco arcade game, and just plunging into a game with almost complete ignorance, and I'm pleasantly surprised.
Drinky, you might not like it because characters talk, and Alex, you probably won't to just confuse me. And Ferricide will obviously hate it because he's the worst reviewer evar.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
And don't do the fucking bonus dungeons.
At least not for a long, long while.
 
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