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The Nintendo 64 Appreciation/Collecting/Emulation Thread.
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
elmalloc
Member
Zoom in and look at Mario side by side, the VI De blur version has quite a bit of "pixels" that are blurred out in the normal version.
It's actually a fairly visible difference in the game. Regardless, N64 doesn't have really awesome 3D graphics...essentially the first foray into 3D for them. I just remember it looking a lot cleaner. Just simple things, like forgetting that the sign there doesn't really have any text on it, just a horizontal brown line...I forgot about this game lol.
I made an easier to see picture for you (vi deblur is turned ON in the right picture):
So sure, games are really pretty pixelated. I think it works well for 2D stuff (NES/SNES). I can see why Nintendo has the VI trying to mask the issues for all games. Either way, the N64 doesn't output the most beautiful graphics...
Yeah there's a difference in that as that's the most noticeable thing, man now that's a difference.Zoom in and look at Mario side by side, the VI De blur version has quite a bit of "pixels" that are blurred out in the normal version.
It's actually a fairly visible difference in the game. Regardless, N64 doesn't have really awesome 3D graphics...essentially the first foray into 3D for them. I just remember looking it a lot cleaner. Just simple things, like forgetting that the sign there doesn't really have any text on it, just a horizontal brown line...I forgot about this game lol.
I made an easier to see picture for you (vi deblur is turned ON in the right picture):
elmalloc
Member
I currently don't have an opinion either way on which I prefer. The Ultra HDMI's forte is the VI Deblurring, but man alive is it pixelated. Even without deblurring, the graphics aren't great. I think N64 is one console meant for CRTs. I'm trying to get over the graphics. It's strange I accept and love the NES/SNES clean pixels. I think it's a different beast in 3D.
Scanlines definitely help the graphics, but you can't do sharp pixels with that mode on. VI Deblurring can still be done, so that's how I'm running it right now (scanlines/vi deblur).
Chip N Chance
Member
I love the way Mario 64 looks on the WiiU VC. Surely there must be a way for these games to look good. Is it really that bad?
I think VC N64 games run at 480p, unless I'm mistaken. 480p trounces 240p.
They do actually.
elmalloc
Member
Yep, it's I guess what we have to expect from 1st generation 240p 3D from Nintendo.
If you emulate, you can upconvert to 1080p and the pixels are gone. This device does not do that.
So what are your thoughts on the Ultra HDMI N64?
elmalloc
Member
I have been sitting as far away from my HDTV (60" ST50 Plasma) as possible in order to enjoy the N64, lol. I do think that it's likely the best way we can enjoy the N64 on an HDTV. It's just a blurred mess (natural N64 picture), or pixelated.
I rank it underneath the Hi-def NES and perhaps underneath an SNES Mini with RGB (even though with the Framemeister there is noise in some dark solid colors). There is no noise with the N64 HDMI. I think it's the best that can be done for modernizing it without upconversion.
Now if we compare it to the Virtual Console games, VC produces a duller pictures but the upconversion make a significant difference (higher resolution). At that point though, I think we're in emulation realm and I'd question the purist view of playing retro games. Playing Super Mario 64 on the PC (emulated) would surely look cleaner.
It's definitely neat to see the Deblur in action. Try4ce from RGBLife says he likes sharp pixels for everything. In the case of the Ultra HDMI N64, you can't turn on sharp pixels AND Scanlines (at least in the latest firmware version, maybe it doesn't make sense to) - so you have to choose. I would say Scanlines definitely produce a little more watchable image for the N64.
To be honest, I don't remember the N64 looking this bad. I don't think it's any fault of the Ultra HDMI, it's just my poor college memories. Certainly playing on a CRT of smaller size would probably fix my memories. I may be in the minority for my thoughts.
I am glad I have this in my collection, as it seems my retro hardware is getting out of control and I can't easily connect all of this up to a single receiver/HDMI switch/HDTV, I need to rethink my setup. I will probably have an upstairs TV for some consoles, N64 will probably go there (to a smaller TV). It would have been a good use to get a nice Sony PVM, but the N64 is already HDMI modded.
NormalFish
Banned
Fact of the matter is the N64 aged worse than pretty much anything. There are maybe a handful of games on the system that I don't think are straight hideous. Even with deblur or emulation.
elmalloc
Member
This, I agree with. It's amazing how well some NES games aged in comparison, but I believe it's strictly a 2D vs 3D thing.
Shadow Hog
Member
Eh, I think it aged a bit better than the PS1, graphically, if only because of proper perspective correction, anti-aliasing and bilinear filtering. The blur on top of all that's rather annoying, though (like, I mean, yeah, anti-aliasing blurs the edges, but there's additional blur after that).
D.Lo
Member
I wouldn't go that far.
Any decently ambitious (ie N64 level) free roaming action game on PS1 or Saturn has the same issues, without perspective correction, Z-buffer and often with much more clipping and visible polygon seams, more pop-up, and not to mention less actually going on in the scene and usually lower framerates.
The era has aged poorly. One of the core issues is that the games mostly run at less than half SD television resolution, which is rough for true 3D games.
But even then, I can see past the technical limitations on all consoles and enjoy stuff for what it achieved within the limitations.
elmalloc
Member
That is essentially what keeps running through my head as I play N64 games on it. There are moments when I'm enjoying the game, I can still get through 18 holes on Mario golf and have fun, but the majority of the time I'm like man does this game look bad - lol.
I will probably download an emulator on PC to feel the comparison, but I will definitely not go down the emulator route as all the retro collecting experience is nearly lost then.
I wouldn't say I'm having perspective correction/zbuffer/clipping issues. It's just the polygons themselves look bad. Smeared/blurred, or pixelated (given a choice). I don't remember it looking this bad, but alas. I might also be seeing combing on some things, not sure though. When watching Mario 64 on YT clips, it makes me wonder if they're playing emulated/etc, their videos look a little cleaner. I wonder if I get an elgato or similar capture device I can capture the exact video I'm seeing, haven't used those before though.
If you are running certain games in high res, you would see combing. Unfortunately, the UHDMI does a quick weave deinterlace, rather than a motion compensated one. It would have been nice if it had options to toggle how the user wants to handle 480i, but it probably didn't have a large enough frame buffer for more advanced deinterlacing. That's probably a result of keeping cost down - which is understandable. They could have easily made it do line doubling of 480i, which would cut out lag, but would blurr detail and make 480i games look even worse than combing.
catpurrcat
Member
Any recommendations for me?
Favorite games:
Mario 64
Banjo series
Mischief makers
Starfox
Sin and punishment
Wipeout
Wave race
Mario kart 64
Rogue Squad
Excitebike
Aside from the above, am I missing anything I may like?
Favorite games:
Mario 64
Banjo series
Mischief makers
Starfox
Sin and punishment
Wipeout
Wave race
Mario kart 64
Rogue Squad
Excitebike
Aside from the above, am I missing anything I may like?
Battle for Naboo is another F5 SW flight game that many people don't realize existed.
blast processed
Member
I played that back when it was released and loved it!!!
Rocket Robot on Wheels is a rather obscure but good platform game by Sucker Punch.
Camera sucks but it's a creative game which combine Mario 64 exploration in a 3D space with puzzle like tasks.
If you love Wave Race, the same team did 1080 Snowboarding a few years later which is the best snowboard game of the generation.
Hey guys, what's the consesus on Super Robot Spirits?
I could snatch a pretty much mint and complete copy for around 35 euros, plus... A fighting game where you can control Daitarn or Voltes is a HUGE temptation for me.
But I can't find solid informations about it. Judging by some videos, it looks pretty decent, if not a bit slow, but other than that I have no clue if it's a total crapgame or not.
Thanks in advance!
I could snatch a pretty much mint and complete copy for around 35 euros, plus... A fighting game where you can control Daitarn or Voltes is a HUGE temptation for me.
But I can't find solid informations about it. Judging by some videos, it looks pretty decent, if not a bit slow, but other than that I have no clue if it's a total crapgame or not.
Thanks in advance!
Jedi Power Battles was decent but yeah I agree.
blast processed
Member
Never played Naboo, I think my hatred carried over from the movies into the games. I did enjoy Pod Racer on the PC and the N64 version is pretty damn close. Phantom Menace on PS1 was garbage. The camera placement hindered you from seeing 15 feet in front of you.
It wasn't until years later for me. That game had a very stealthy release.
Trust me, a CRT does everything for the N64. Playing N64 via XRGB Mini vs. playing it on a CRT is a world of difference. The CRT just looks so much better.
And while yes, CRT is my preferred way to play in general, with N64 it's literally the only way I've seen the graphics look even remotely normal.
Edit:
Yea definitely: Diddy Kong Racing and possibly Bomberman 64.
The movie was mediocre but I'm surprised at some of the decent to good games it produced.
Ha, yeah, no one talks about it for some reason, guess that explains it.
RGB modded N64 on a CRT is the way to go it seems.
A Black Falcon
Member
Battle for Naboo is a great game, and easily the best of the Star Wars games on the N64. It has some of the system's best graphics and sound, and great fun gameplay too. It is a simple game of course, as all of Factor 5's Star Wars flight action games are, but it's a really good one. It's better than the original Rogue Squadron in almost every way, but either because of its later release date (late 2000) or the growing stigma against Episode I, it didn't do as well as it should have. I got it that year and loved it, though, so some of us did pay attention.
blast processed
Member
Sooo I guess I should just ignore up my hatred for Episode 1 and pick up this game.
A Black Falcon
Member
For Ep. 1 haters, the only time Jar-Jar appears in the game is right at the start, when he gets crushed by the N64 logo. I don't hate Ep. 1 or Jar-Jar (he's not a great character, but far from the worst), but the developers clearly did...
And as for the story, you play as an original character, and the game is mostly original, not retellings of scenes from the film. The story is nothing amazing, but it's enough, and the gameplay is great. The last level is the main exception to that, but otherwise, it's mostly Rogue Squadron-like action, but with both land and air vehicles instead of only air vehicles, and it's set on Naboo with Ep. 1 vehicles and enemies. I like that it's an original story, not just a retelling of the movie. And it's all done with a long draw distance (worlds different from the close-in fog of Rogue Squadron!), some of the system's better texturing, and lots of voice audio.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Saw a 64DD at a HardOff today going for >$1000. Yikes!
soxinthebox
Member
Regret not buying one years ago for $250 AUD 🤔
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I really need to find a good N64 and buy an Everdrive. I bought a Shield TV that I wanted to use as an N64 emulator as well, but Iggy's Reckin Balls won't load. Weird game choice, but it showed me that I need to just buy the system and the cart and start collecting again.
blast processed
Member
.
I love posts like these. They're my favorite.
Seeing video games bring joy to people's lives (especially children) is really what this hobby is all about.
Question...
how the hell can I play San francisco Rush?
I hear there's a PC version but I can't find it anywhere. I really want to play this dumb game again...I think I even have the cart still...but would prefer to play it in a cozy set up rather than blowing up my composite N64.
Does it exist anywhere else?
how the hell can I play San francisco Rush?
I hear there's a PC version but I can't find it anywhere. I really want to play this dumb game again...I think I even have the cart still...but would prefer to play it in a cozy set up rather than blowing up my composite N64.
Does it exist anywhere else?
soxinthebox
Member
Just sent my n64 off to badassconsoles (in Australia) today. Hoping because it's just the next state over it won't take too long to get it back
Lynd7
Member
I also sent my N64 off yesterday, hope it'll be back fairly speedily.
I also have a PVM and had my 64 RGB modded, but having the UltraHDMI done will be great for having more options. I think with scanlines on etc it'll look nice on the HDTV. A friends XRGB looked nice that way with the system.
I also have a PVM and had my 64 RGB modded, but having the UltraHDMI done will be great for having more options. I think with scanlines on etc it'll look nice on the HDTV. A friends XRGB looked nice that way with the system.
shanafan
Member
Question about the bottom of the N64.
It might just be the piece of wood that my N64 sits on, but it can easily slide if I touch it. I am not sure if rubber grips on the bottom came with the N64. Did they?
Once I plugged in the AC adapter, it does stay a little more stationary, but it can still easily move it if I touch it.
It might just be the piece of wood that my N64 sits on, but it can easily slide if I touch it. I am not sure if rubber grips on the bottom came with the N64. Did they?
Once I plugged in the AC adapter, it does stay a little more stationary, but it can still easily move it if I touch it.
Just sent my n64 off to badassconsoles (in Australia) today. Hoping because it's just the next state over it won't take too long to get it back
Funny how we all sent our N64s to get better image quality, I wish this had RGB from the start.
TheMoon
Member
Yikes, gimme blurry AA over that mess any day.
I agree. Shit looks like a PS1 game.