The Order: 1886 has gone gold

Naw , GAF is pretty diverse, unlike game critics as a whole. As, far as retail console stuff goes, game critics collectively like familiar easy games that don't require learning or practice yet are also new and innovative; that is, they want the same but different and they want deep engaging mechanics that require no effort or practice.

The real problem though, is they give themseselves the veneer of objectivity in order to justify their role in society and give value to their work, and that role is arbitor of game quality. Jeff Gertsman's review of driveclub, for example, called the driving mechanics broken. He did not say 'not to my taste' or 'too different from horizon to be comfortable', but broken. Given the fact that it is not broken but wholly consistent, why say it is broken?

Well, one possibility is that if your identity and self worth is wrapped up in your job, like most people, and you job is telling others what is good and what bad, and you fashion yourself as an expert in all things videogames, well if you don't like something then that something must be objectively bad. Then you cast about for reasons as to why, in this case the game must be 'broken'.

I think a more likely answer is that reviewers know that if they let the audience in on the secret that their collective opinions aren't objective, and are only valuable if the reader has the same tastes as a bunch of 20-40 y.o. writers who have to play 30+ mostly shitty videogames per year in order to make money, they might be out of a job.

The best course of action if you want advice on game purchases is to look at your favorite games, find reviewers/youtubbers/gaffers/irl-friends etc that share your tastes, and follow them. Do not look at an aggregate score or a random critic for guidance.

Can you believe alot of people didn't buy Alien ISO because of IGN's review?

"Isn't that game suppose to be bad"

I don't understand how some can go by one individual opinion and decide not to buy something. If i did that i would of never played Alien ISO. I read a couple of post on gaf about it, watched a few streams, then got to play it at NYCC. That's how i made my decision to buy it. I don't base my purchasing decisions on a fucking review, a useless score, magazines and websites.


As for The Order. I think it's too late for this game. The negative energy has already gone too far. Now it's just people adding on. The air is bad with this one. Oh, well.
 
Same here with Driveclub (71%), Killzone: Shadow Fall (73%), and Destiny (76%). Hell, one of my all-time favorite games, Shadow of Memories, has only 78% average on Metacritic.

And as middling as Destiny was as far as critical reception goes, it's my favorite game of last year and I've put 300+ hours into it. I just can't take review scores with much weight anymore. They're not entirely irrelevant but they aren't as important as people make them out to be. For me, the story and graphics of The Order are enough to get me excited.
 
To be true i just want it for the graphics cause i wanna see fisrt hand what sony can come up with the ps4 in a more closed enviroment game.

Also i like tps and QTE, so it'll feed my tastes
 
If reviewers gets caught in the atmosphere and story, it could review very well...

If the gameplay is at least good, wich I think it will.
 
That's probably exactly why it'll get middling reviews. The game is aiming to deliver a polished, somewhat tried and tested experience which reviewers occasionally fallback on in their criticism of a game (and other times, ignore completely).

I personally can't wait. I've been itching for a TPS, so much so that I brought out my dusty 360 and starting playing some Gears.

It's been a common theme with reviews during the past year. Games that aren't seen as innovative, bringing new gameplay elements for a new generation, are often criticized. It's a shame, that it seems to be less important whether the games actually play good or not.

This is one of my most waited games of this year, so hopefully it doesn't disappoint. I've also been itching for another TPS ever since ME3. I think I might have enjoyed Gears, but I never got to play the series, apart from a demo of the first at a local gaming expo in 2007.
 
That's one preview against other positive ones I've seen or is Eurogamer the only site we should listen to?

Eurogamer should not be considered a reliable source where PS4 first party exclusives are concerned. Anyone who has been paying attention to their output for a while will know this.
 
Legend of Dragoon is 74%, one of my favorite games as well.

Unfortunately I missed that completely, as it game so late on PS1's life, and I was already moving to the next generation. That's why I missed FFXII as well. =/


And as middling as Destiny was as far as critical reception goes, it's my favorite game of last year and I've put 300+ hours into it. I just can't take review scores with much weight anymore. They're not entirely irrelevant but they aren't as important as people make them out to be. For me, the story and graphics of The Order are enough to get me excited.

I put 85 hours into it, and enjoyed the gameplay, but I can understand the criticism concerning the lacking campaign and content. I quitted playing the game after the Dark Below changes were announced, but I might return to it when the DLC prices go down.

I don't pay much attention to reviews these days either. More often than not, I've noticed that their consensus doesn't meet my views and tastes.
 
In terms of Story I think this one will be a big hit, RAD have produced mostly excellent games which makes me really hopeful. It's the bugs and combat that worries me a little. Just a little though.
 
If the story is good I will be satisfied. Shooting looks solid, and I don't have a problem with QTEs.

Just hope it sells enough for RAD to stick around.
 
Yep, same here. No clue why. The delivery option isn't even day of either. Probably going to have to go to Amazon for this one.
Yep same here. I actually already have it preordered through Amazon, have since E3, but wanted to GCU discount.

I went to my local store they said the collectors edition was sold out then the girl was like wait a second is sold out online but not in the system. Was able to get CE with GCU. I would but I was told that rewards cannot be applied to pre orders which is not true because I have done that before but that particular girl that know how to do it. everytime I go there I have a completely different experience thank God they have the GCU.
Yeah as you said no doubt the GCU discount goes towards preorders. No doubt.
Actually I just realized I might be able to do the same thing, as I have Dying Light preordered in-store pickup so can preorder The Order while I am there. Sticking with Amazon for now though as my backup.

Thanks for the replies confirming I was not the only one seeing it.
 
All entries in established IP.

Every concern that has been brought up is regarding game design. Which is something they've never done themselves before.

I don't buy it. Yes, they are established IP, but the TPS is an established genre here. If anything, the complaint is that they are not innovating and are merely copying the established tropes and mechanics of the genre, as they did with God of War.

Honestly, the games they have made previously are meaningfully refined iterations of existing games. This game will probably be the exact same.
 
I don't buy it. Yes, they are established IP, but the TPS is an established genre here. If anything, the complaint is that they are not innovating and are merely copying the established tropes and mechanics of the genre, as they did with God of War.

Honestly, the games they have made previously are meaningfully refined iterations of existing games. This game will probably be the exact same.

This leads in to one of the strangest things about the recent negative impressions I've seen (Edge, Eurogamer, Metro). They all acknowledged that the shooting and combat felt good. If the shooting in a shooter is good, I'll usually like it. I know other people have issues with aspects of design but I just can't see a shooter where it's fun to shoot things as being bad. Also for me, setting and atmosphere can be enough of a reason to love a game and this is delivering strong on those points.

In reference to their GoW games, few people mention just how well written they were. They added more human elements to Kratos, contextualized his personality changes, and added an emotional core that the SSM entries were often lacking. If the writing in their own IP is as strong, the story should be a huge highlight of this game since they can delve into whatever relevant aspects of it they want to without having to fit into an established canon.

Does anyone know if the US Collector's edition includes a normal game case along with the steel book?
None of Sony's CEs have ever had anything but a steelbook in them.
 
Does anyone know if the US Collector's edition includes a normal game case along with the steel book?
Yes, it does according to Amazon :)

71dOI1GwbRL._SL1500_.jpg
 
Also, there's a difference between Nier getting a 68% and a bad Sony AAA exclusive scoring low. Critics didn't try to understand Nier's oddities, and the jank made things worse. There's nothing to misunderstand about Shadow Fall, or Knack. They're bad games. Not even bad like Nier's mechanical jank, just design wise they're not good. They have bad things like Killzone's awful level design or Knack's awful everything. They don't try to do anything beyond copying genre tropes, and they copy those tropes poorly.

The only way I imagine Sony fans liking those games is that they willfully forget every other good game when they talk about them.
 
I hope the order is good. If so I will buy it.
But I'm waiting for reviews and more imprtantly GAF impressions.
Reviews are mostly garbage these days anyway...
... Is there any review embargo?
 
Also, there's a difference between Nier getting a 68% and a bad Sony AAA exclusive getting one. Critics didn't try to understand Nier's oddities, and the jank made things worse. There's nothing to misunderstand about Shadow Fall, or Knack. They're bad games. They have bad things like Killzone's awful level design or Knack's awful everything. They don't try to do anything beyond copying genre tropes, and they copy those tropes poorly.

The only way I imagine Sony fans liking those games is that they willfully forget every other good game when they talk about them.

Knack was OK and Killzone has great combat. I hate seeing people only like those sorts of games because they like Sony. The reason I'm a fan of Sony right now is because of the games they choose to put out and fund match up the closest with my personal tastes, not because those games come from Sony.

Bringing up reviews to me these days is kind of pointless. I find many of my favorite games often wind up in the 70s range and there are few reviewers I agree with any more. Reveiwers these days seem to focus too much on what a game is not versus what it is.

I always like to see games I like review well but I know my own tastes and preferences. Hell, one of the games I hated more than any other has a 98 on metacritic.
 
Also, there's a difference between Nier getting a 68% and a bad Sony AAA exclusive getting one. Critics didn't try to understand Nier's oddities, and the jank made things worse. There's nothing to misunderstand about Shadow Fall, or Knack. They're bad games. Not even bad like Nier's mechanical jank, just design wise they're not good. They have bad things like Killzone's awful level design or Knack's awful everything. They don't try to do anything beyond copying genre tropes, and they copy those tropes poorly.

The only way I imagine Sony fans liking those games is that they willfully forget every other good game when they talk about them.

Oh, well, now that you've settled that, I guess we can move on.
 
All entries in established IP.

Every concern that has been brought up is regarding game design. Which is something they've never done themselves before.

What does that have to do with anything? You still have to know how to design a game properly in order for it to turn out right. It's not like being in an established series will automatically make a game good. Jak: The Lost Frontier is from an established series, yet it holds 72 on Metacritic.
 
Also, there's a difference between Nier getting a 68% and a bad Sony AAA exclusive scoring low. Critics didn't try to understand Nier's oddities, and the jank made things worse. There's nothing to misunderstand about Shadow Fall, or Knack. They're bad games. Not even bad like Nier's mechanical jank, just design wise they're not good. They have bad things like Killzone's awful level design or Knack's awful everything. They don't try to do anything beyond copying genre tropes, and they copy those tropes poorly.

The only way I imagine Sony fans liking those games is that they willfully forget every other good game when they talk about them.

I'll ignore the condescending nonsense of the first paragraph and just say that maybe the problem is that you view the people that like these games as "Sony fans" rather than gamers who simply enjoy different things than you. Or, you can continue your campaign to be GAF's own arbiter of all that is good in games. Your choice, but the first one will probably leave you without baggage of sounding like an ass.
 
All this fear over critics lambasting this game as if their opinions matter. Unlike most review outlets that focus on needless verbiage to express their thoughts, I tend to take a more succint and clear approach to my reviewing game. Being a reviewer's no different than being a rugby player or construction worker, save for the fact that my reviews are the mechanisms which trigger human emotion.

In the meantime, before I bring my GAF exclusive review in the future, please take a look at some of my past work.

Grand Theft Auto 5 - 9/10
Super Mario 3D World - 9/10
Infamous: Second Son - 8/10
Driveclub - 8/10
Shadow of Mordor - 8/10
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - 8/10
Assassin's Creed: Black Flag - 7/10
D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die - 7/10
Dead Rising 3 - 7/10
Mario Kart 8 - 7/10
Knack - 6/10
Killzone: Shadow Fall - 6/10

Riveting.

Congratulations to RAD for their first big production. It's clearly been a massive effort, and involved many years of hard work.
 
I don't know about you guys but after looking at GAF's GOTY list, I am sure that The Order: 1886 will be there. Games with mixed reaction like Alien Isolation and The Evil Within (both of whom I liked) showed up there. The Order: 1886 appears to be a similar case to me. It will be a love/hate affair and I expect a meta score of 75-80 for it at most. Still it is one of my most anticipated game of 2015. I wish it can end up surprising others like Mordor, but we shall see.
 
Games not out. People in this thread haven't played it. LETS DISCUSS IMAGINARY GAME SCORES.

Review thread being sane does not seem likely whatever it gets.
 
I don't know about you guys but after looking at GAF's GOTY list, I am sure that The Order: 1886 will be there. Games with mixed reaction like Alien Isolation and The Evil Within (both of whom I liked) showed up there. The Order: 1886 appears to be a similar case to me. It will be a love/hate affair and I expect a meta score of 75-80 for it at most. Still it is one of my most anticipated game of 2015. I wish it can end up surprising others like Mordor, but we shall see.

I don't see that happening. 2015 is utterly stacked in terms of big releases and The Order is releasing very early on, meaning it will lose mindshare towards the end of the year like so many early releases come voting time.
 
I don't see that happening. 2015 is utterly stacked in terms of big releases and The Order is releasing very early on, meaning it will lose mindshare towards the end of the year like so many early releases come voting time.
Hmmmm.. this is an interesting point. 2015 is packed indeed. We might even have a few surprises up ahead.
 
I'll ignore the condescending nonsense of the first paragraph and just say that maybe the problem is that you view the people that like these games as "Sony fans" rather than gamers who simply enjoy different things than you.
Here's the thing: Shadow Fall and Knack aren't different things. They are carbon copies of genres that not only do I really like, but where there's an abundance of quality. They're not Nier, they're not Dark Souls, they're not fucking Deadly Premonition. They don't innovate, they don't have any qualities that sets themselves apart from their peers, and they fail in areas that their peers don't. They are shitty, shitty games.
 
The shooting is quite good, the visuals are insane, the ambiance/background is excellent, the gameplay is quite varied, ... and yet, there are plenty of unwarranted nitpicking articles on this game.

There are important unknown though, mostly the quality of the set pieces and level design (shinobi mentioned open area so that has me excited at least) and the storytelling and scenario (this could make it or break it really).
 
I don't buy it. Yes, they are established IP, but the TPS is an established genre here. If anything, the complaint is that they are not innovating and are merely copying the established tropes and mechanics of the genre, as they did with God of War.

Honestly, the games they have made previously are meaningfully refined iterations of existing games. This game will probably be the exact same.

Well put.


This leads in to one of the strangest things about the recent negative impressions I've seen (Edge, Eurogamer, Metro). They all acknowledged that the shooting and combat felt good. If the shooting in a shooter is good, I'll usually like it. I know other people have issues with aspects of design but I just can't see a shooter where it's fun to shoot things as being bad. Also for me, setting and atmosphere can be enough of a reason to love a game and this is delivering strong on those points.

In reference to their GoW games, few people mention just how well written they were. They added more human elements to Kratos, contextualized his personality changes, and added an emotional core that the SSM entries were often lacking. If the writing in their own IP is as strong, the story should be a huge highlight of this game since they can delve into whatever relevant aspects of it they want to without having to fit into an established canon.

Things like that prevent me from taking those writers seriously. How can it be bad, if it plays good?

Good to know about the quality of writing in their past games, as I haven't been able to play them due to not having a PSP.
 
Unfortunately I missed that completely, as it game so late on PS1's life, and I was already moving to the next generation. That's why I missed FFXII as well. =/




I put 85 hours into it, and enjoyed the gameplay, but I can understand the criticism concerning the lacking campaign and content. I quitted playing the game after the Dark Below changes were announced, but I might return to it when the DLC prices go down.

I don't pay much attention to reviews these days either. More often than not, I've noticed that their consensus doesn't meet my views and tastes.
I remember reading Gamespot's review of it. They said the story is like Power Rangers, and my response in my head was essentially fuck you, I'm never fully trusting reviewers again. :P I was young and put huge trust in reviews at the time.
 
Here's the thing: Shadow Fall and Knack aren't different things. They are carbon copies of genres that not only do I really like, but where there's an abundance of quality. They're not Nier, they're not Dark Souls, they're not fucking Deadly Premonition. They don't innovate, they don't have any qualities that sets themselves apart from their peers, and they fail in areas that their peers don't. They are shitty, shitty games.

Not every game needs to be revolutionary, and as a matter of fact very few, and that's all right. As a matter of fact, the game of the last generation for many on these forum is actually quite standard on nearly all point.

So yeah, Shadow Fall and Knack may not be good games - I haven't tried any of them yet - but the fact they aren't revolutionary has nothing to do with this. There are great very standard games (TLOU), and very bad innovatives ones (Deadly Premonition is a terrible game !).
 
Sometimes I do not understand people.

People like pure shooting game such as Wolfenstein.

But when come to the Order people said that there is nothing new in the game....

I don't know. I like to shoot thing in shooting game. I do not like to use super power like in Bioshock. Let me shoot thing because that is why I preorder the game.
 
Here's the thing: Shadow Fall and Knack aren't different things. They are carbon copies of genres that not only do I really like, but where there's an abundance of quality. They're not Nier, they're not Dark Souls, they're not fucking Deadly Premonition. They don't innovate, they don't have any qualities that sets themselves apart from their peers, and they fail in areas that their peers don't. They are shitty, shitty games.

Clearly you didn't understand the words that I wrote. By "different things," I was merely accounting for different tastes. Some people enjoy Killzone and Knack, others think games like Nier, D4 and Deadly Premonition are not enjoyable, at all. You don't need to innovate to create a product that people enjoy. I'll admit that I didn't like the Shadow Fall campaign, at all. But, I've always liked the multiplayer aspect of Killzone. The structure of the games themselves was different (hint, hint) and something I'd never experienced until Killzone 2 introduced it. Plus, the gunplay is fun, which is important in a shooter.
Thanks for letting me know you chose the second option though. Now I know to avoid you.
 
I remember reading Gamespot's review of it. They said the story is like Power Rangers, and my response in my head was essentially fuck you, I'm never fully trusting reviewers again. :P I was young and put huge trust in reviews at the time.

Comparing anything to Power Rangers is never a good thing to me. ;) IIRC, the game was also labelled as a poor man's Final Fantasy.
 
Comparing anything to Power Rangers is never a good thing to me. ;) IIRC, the game was also labelled as a poor man's Final Fantasy.
It's about opinions. I loved it personally, I loved the story as well. That, Chrono Cross, & FFIX were my favorite jRPGs of that generation that I consider arguably the best in terms of jRPGs (between that the gen following afterwards). But I know most people disagree with that, but I'm ok with it. :)
 
Knack was OK and Killzone has great combat. I hate seeing people only like those sorts of games because they like Sony. The reason I'm a fan of Sony right now is because of the games they choose to put out and fund match up the closest with my personal tastes, not because those games come from Sony.
And there ain't nothin wrong with that. Some are the same way with Nintendo or MS. Everybody has a preference.
 
Not every game needs to be revolutionary,
I didn't say that they needed to revolutionize.
There are great very standard games (TLOU), and very bad innovatives ones (Deadly Premonition is a terrible game !).
Very good point. Deadly Premonition is a game that is very flawed, but innovative with a some redeeming qualities that people with certain tastes enjoy. If you don't mind bad combat, but do mind good surreal characters. Then you're likely to enjoy Deadly Premonition more than someone whose tastes are opposite to that. This is how Deadly Premonition, despite getting really bad review scores, became a cult hit.

Knack and Shadow Fall are not Deadly Premonition. There's nothing hidden under their boilerplate game mechanics that critics missed or dismissed. They're very much by-the-numbers games that, if all their features were merely passable, would still be unremarkable and not worth checking out in a world where a jazillion decent-to-great games in their respective genres exist. But they do have significant flaws. Whoever designed the levels in Shadow Fall didn't understand flow or sense of place (and it's AI just felt poor, and I liked the previous games) and despite Knack being very VERY bare bones it couldn't nail some of the things it did well (homing ball, platforming, certain enemies punishing you for trying to be good.) So they fail to pass the bar their peers have been raising for years as the professional critics have pointed out, and there's no hidden redeeming qualities that critics missed but the fans didn't. And every time I heard a lengthy argument for why either one of these games are good (that go beyond "I had fun!" or "It's my opinion lol!"), they are all written like they exist in a vacuum where other games don't exist.
 
This kind of looks like it plays heavy like gears of war. If so its a buy for me. Hopefully some gaffers get it a few weeks early for some reviews before I commit.
 
I expect the game it get picked apart by reviewers for not being "innovative" enough or for providing "next gen gameplay." They won't elaborate on that, but I feel like that is going to a fairly common thing in the reviews based on the sentiment and attitudes present in the previews.

If that is the case, it'll be a sad thing too because it is nice to see (from my perspective at the moment) a tightly focused, refined shooter that isn't trying to blow the doors off the genre. Considering it is a brand new IP, I'd rather Ready at Dawn play it a little safe and just focus on creating a beautiful world and a fun shooter. Why does everything need to be some pool of innovative? Let the gameplay speak for itself in this case so they can set the game apart with the story and world they create. If they create a fun, very solid shooter that feels good and is satisfying then measure the game based on that. It would be absolute shame if reviewers started to pick apart the game based on what it didn't do as opposed to what it did do. Sometimes I feel like that is what reviewers have been doing lately and it sucks.

Of course, there is a chance the game could suck, reviews don't mention that type of thing at all and it isn't fun to play or anything. In which case, that is what it is. Not much around that. Personally, I just want a solid, fun to play third person shooter. I don't expect much else and I don't want much else. Just a good, well made game.

It looks awesome though. I hope it all works out.
 
Top Bottom