The Order: 1886 has gone gold

Odrion said:
I didn't say that they needed to revolutionize.

Very good point. Deadly Premonition is a game that is very flawed, but innovative with a some redeeming qualities that people with certain tastes enjoy. If you don't mind bad combat, but do mind good surreal characters. Then you're likely to enjoy Deadly Premonition more than someone whose tastes are opposite to that. This is how Deadly Premonition, despite getting really bad review scores, became a cult hit.

Knack and Shadow Fall are not Deadly Premonition. There's nothing hidden under their boilerplate game mechanics that critics missed or dismissed. They're very much by-the-numbers games that, if all their features were merely passable, would still be unremarkable and not worth checking out in a world where a jazillion decent-to-great games in their respective genres exist. But they do have significant flaws. Whoever designed the levels in Shadow Fall didn't understand flow or sense of place (and it's AI just felt poor, and I liked the previous games) and despite Knack being very VERY bare bones it couldn't nail some of the things it did well (homing ball, platforming, certain enemies punishing you for trying to be good.) So they fail to pass the bar their peers have been raising for years as the professional critics have pointed out, and there's no hidden redeeming qualities that critics missed but the fans didn't. And every time I heard a lengthy argument for why either one of these games are good (that go beyond "I had fun!" or "It's my opinion lol!"), they are all written like they exist in a vacuum where other games don't exist.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand why you are talking about Knack and Shadow Fall. At best it is useless, at worst, it is hurtful to the discussion. If your assumption is that a game needs to be innovative to be good, you are wrong (there are counterexamples in spades). If you just want to say that Knack/Shadow Fall are neither good nor innovative, well, whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant since this is highly off-topic.

Last but not least, there is one thing in common for some of the examples you gave me (Nier and Deadly Premonition). Their gameplay is either very uninspired and mediocre (Nier) or just plain bad (Deadly Premonition) and they are technical either poor (Nier) or just plain broken (Deadly Premonition). What makes those games special, and actually quite enjoyable for some (I loved Nier, despised Deadly premonition), is the background, the scenario, the characters, ... The fact that The Order is nailing the visuals and at least succeeding in the most important aspect of the gameplay, doesn't mean it is going to fail on the latter. Actually there are plenty of hints that show us that it could very well be excellent, at least it is a focus on the team.
 
Thought this thread was about The Order 1886, then Odrion took part in the discussion to tell us how he feels about Knack & Killzone and some Xbox One games. Great.
 
Hoje0308 said:
Clearly you didn't understand the words that I wrote. By "different things," I was merely accounting for different tastes. Some people enjoy Killzone and Knack, others think games like Nier, D4 and Deadly Premonition are not enjoyable, at all. You don't need to innovate to create a product that people enjoy. I'll admit that I didn't like the Shadow Fall campaign, at all. But, I've always liked the multiplayer aspect of Killzone. The structure of the games themselves was different (hint, hint) and something I'd never experienced until Killzone 2 introduced it. Plus, the gunplay is fun, which is important in a shooter.
Thanks for letting me know you chose the second option though. Now I know to avoid you.
Click to expand...
Ugh, I had a feeling in my gut that if I used the word "innovate" people would just yank it out of the context of the post and turn it into another "not every game needs to revolutionize the genre" argument. Okay, no, it doesn't. But it better be as good or better than the things that inspired it, or it better have a very unique positive characteristic about it (which the only ones that Knack and Shadow Fall have are... being PS4 exclusive.) Also, if your argument is that "people have opinions" then pfffftt.
 
Odrion said:
Ugh, I had a feeling in my gut that if I used the word "innovate" people would just yank it out of the context of the post and turn it into another "not every game needs to revolutionize the genre" argument. Okay, no, it doesn't. But it better be as good or better than the things that inspired it, or it better have a very unique positive characteristic about it (which the only ones that Knack and Shadow Fall have are... being PS4 exclusive.)
Click to expand...

Why the fuck is Knack and Shadowfall even being brought up? Can anyone explain this to me?

" The Order has gone gold! "

" Knack and Shadowfall sucked!! "

.......
 
IAmRandom31 said:
Why the fuck is Knack and Shadowfall even being brought up? Can anyone explain this to me?

" The Order has gone gold! "

" Knack and Shadowfall sucked!! "

.......
Click to expand...
It's because only two pages ago people were preemptively, like a bullied kid to a clenched fist, preparing themselves for critics to dump on yet another Sony AAA exclusive by predicting low metacritic scores. Some people said that they have enjoyed a lot of games that critics have slandered, such as Nier, which got a 68%. Then I pointed out why something like Nier would score low and find a loving fanbase and why it's not the same as Sony's AAA output. Then people replied to me, and I replied to them back.

But if you think it's off topic, let me bring Knack and Shadow Fall back around to the topic again: Like those two games, I really doubt that if The Order scores low it's going to be because critics won't understand it. The studio is trying to make a "cinematic" third person shooter, and their history is that they emulate genres very well. If it scores low, it's probably going to be because it's bad and not because critics misunderstood, didn't appreciate, or ignored innovative game design or unique aspects that fans will appreciate (ie Deadly Premonition, Nier, etc.)
 
Odrion said:
It's because only two pages ago people were preemptively, like a bullied kid to a clenched fist, preparing themselves for critics to dump on yet another Sony AAA exclusive by predicting low metacritic scores. Some people said that they have enjoyed a lot of games that critics have slandered, such as Nier, which got a 68%. Then I pointed out why something like Nier would score low and find a loving fanbase and why it's not the same as Sony's AAA output. Then people replied to me, and I replied to them back.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. I dunno. If we are worried about review scores still after all the insanity so far in this young generation we have learned nothing. Reviews = opinions. There are reviews out there stating Knack is great. Others saying not so great. Same with Killzone and pretty much everything else out there in general.

I have a problem with reviews in general these days as some of them seem more driven by agendas then just playing a game and review in said game on the merits of what it is not some outside force driving you to change things around on the fly.

As it is for the Order. Ready at Dawn set out with a vision of a game that eliminates the barrier between the cinematics and the game visually while at the same time telling a story. A story with a cool setting and premise and what looks to be a solid cast of characters and some interesting twists based around the timeline.

It could be the greatest story ever told, who knows. The PSX impressions were FAR better and more positive then the previous demo impressions, so we shall are what happens. I could care less about review scores though.
 
I was wondering how a thread about a game going gold could reach 7 pages (100ppp).

I'm looking forward to trying it. I'm optimistic about it. I like cover shooters in theory but often not in practice. With The Order, though, I think the unusual setting, characters and enemies are going to help this game.
 
Neuromancer said:
I was wondering how a thread about a game going gold could reach 7 pages (100ppp).

I'm looking forward to trying it. I'm optimistic about it. I like cover shooters in theory but often not in practice. With The Order, though, I think the unusual setting, characters and enemies are going to help this game.
Click to expand...
"The Order 1886" is in the thread title.
 
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
 
IAmRandom31 said:
I have a problem with reviews in general these days as some of them seem more driven by agendas then just playing a game and review in said game on the merits of what it is not some outside force driving you to change things around on the fly.
Click to expand...

You're probably getting a bit too wrapped up in them.

Maybe there have been instances of corruption, I don't know, but for the most part they're just some dude's opinion, and opinions can be helpful in deciding whether to spend a bunch of money on a game. Nothing to get worked up over.
 
Neuromancer said:
I was wondering how a thread about a game going gold could reach 7 pages (100ppp).

I'm looking forward to trying it. I'm optimistic about it. I like cover shooters in theory but often not in practice. With The Order, though, I think the unusual setting, characters and enemies are going to help this game.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be an Order 1886 topic if we didn't have loads of people coming in to tell us that we shouldn't pre-order and give us lists of reasons why they are not interested in this game.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

People just want to see a new IP from a good developer do well and think reviews will have more of an effect on sales than they actually do.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

Mostly what it is. Do what the rest of the adults do and just watch. It's great.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...
This almost sounds like you're going to disregard my review. I'll have you know I make a lot of effort, mentally, into getting that end result.

For the people.
 
Odrion said:
It's because only two pages ago people were preemptively, like a bullied kid to a clenched fist, preparing themselves for critics to dump on yet another Sony AAA exclusive by predicting low metacritic scores. Some people said that they have enjoyed a lot of games that critics have slandered, such as Nier, which got a 68%. Then I pointed out why something like Nier would score low and find a loving fanbase and why it's not the same as Sony's AAA output. Then people replied to me, and I replied to them back.

But if you think it's off topic, let me bring Knack and Shadow Fall back around to the topic again: Like those two games, I really doubt that if The Order scores low it's going to be because critics won't understand it. The studio is trying to make a "cinematic" third person shooter, and their history is that they emulate genres very well. If it scores low, it's probably going to be because it's bad and not because critics misunderstood, didn't appreciate, or ignored innovative game design or unique aspects that fans will appreciate (ie Deadly Premonition, Nier, etc.)
Click to expand...

I think this is awfully nuanced and I'm not sure it warrants it. Your supposition is that those games were misunderstood and weren't (and I use your emphasis) bad.

I had originally typed up why I thought those games were reviewed poorly, and I was going to suggest you were willing to see nuance where perhaps it wasn't warranted, but again we're just going to be debating your opinion of what makes those games "misunderstood" or "under-appreciated" or why they showcased "innovative game design or unique aspects that fans will appreciate." The consensus ignoring something in a niche product that makes it unique or innovative is par for the course. Every product fits into a niche one way or another, and you're going to have fans appreciate things a critical mass of people don't.

So, while I could shoot back and say I don't think the games you listed are any more mechanically innovative or interesting than a standard TPS that does one or two things differently than other games in its class, we're again just going to be debating your opinion so I don't see the point.

I'm struggling to see the difference here, really. Someone likes X and you might not for whatever reason. That's the same in both cases. It's really just a matter of what you're defining as mechanically innovative or interesting. Is this really a meaningful discussion in a thread about an entirely different game going gold?
 
Well, I'll just say this.

Wolfenstein: The New Order was a FPSer that everyone initially dismissed as a "generic bland FPSer that won't do anything exciting", then as reviews came out a good amount of critics (including the eternal bummer that is Arthur Gies) gave it positive reviews saying that the gunplay was great and it told a good story. When it got into the hands of players, they loved it not because it was revolutionary, but because it was an cinematic FPSer that had great gunplay and story. It just did things really well.

79/100 on Metacritic.
Y2Kev said:
I think this is awfully nuanced and I'm not sure it warrants it. Your supposition is that those games were misunderstood and weren't (and I use your emphasis) bad.

I had originally typed up why I thought those games were reviewed poorly, and I was going to suggest you were willing to see nuance where perhaps it wasn't warranted, but again we're just going to be debating your opinion of what makes those games "misunderstood" or "under-appreciated" or why they showcased "innovative game design or unique aspects that fans will appreciate." The consensus ignoring something in a niche product that makes it unique or innovative is par for the course. Every product fits into a niche one way or another, and you're going to have fans appreciate things a critical mass of people don't.

So, while I could shoot back and say I don't think the games you listed are any more mechanically innovative or interesting than a standard TPS that does one or two things differently than other games in its class, we're again just going to be debating your opinion so I don't see the point.

I'm struggling to see the difference here, really. Someone likes X and you might not for whatever reason. That's the same in both cases. It's really just a matter of what you're defining as mechanically innovative or interesting. Is this really a meaningful discussion in a thread about an entirely different game going gold?
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I've said my peace.
 
In this day and age reviews are even more useless than before .
I mean why take someone opinion when i can just watch a stream or shareplay it with someone you know for a while.
Also congrats to RAD , will pre order soon since i love TPS games.
 
Congratulations to team! I played a bit of the game couple of months ago and it seemed to have a very interesting mood and atmosphere. Here's hoping for a good game with a nice interesting story. I usually do not care for reviews and I just want to have some fun so if the game can provide me that, I will be more than happy. :)

I also loved The Knights music soundtrack. A bit creepy, with a bit of mystery.
 
Odrion said:
Well, I'll just say this.

Wolfenstein: The New Order was a FPSer that everyone initially dismissed as a "generic bland FPSer that won't do anything exciting", then as reviews came out a good amount of critics (including the eternal bummer that is Arthur Gies) gave it positive reviews saying that the gunplay was great and it told a good story. When it got into the hands of players, they loved it not because it was revolutionary, but because it was an cinematic FPSer that had great gunplay and story. It just did things really well.

79/100 on Metacritic.

Don't worry, I've said my peace.
Click to expand...

I feel this is supposed to be end your post in a dramatic fashion by putting this final nail in your whole argument.

But I don't understand it :-(
 
The snobby euro press seem like they have their minds made up already. I think the NA reviews will be more favorable.

Don't really care, honestly. This looks ground-breaking for a console game the same way GoWIII was and I couldn't be more excited.
 
Shabad said:
I feel this is supposed to be end your post in a dramatic fashion by putting this final nail in your whole argument.

But I don't understand it :-(
Click to expand...

It means that even games that are loved by gaming fans can be hated by the press pre release and not do very well in scores.
 
I'm insanely pumped for The Order! I love Ready at Dawn and I love cinematic third person action games. The setting is also phenomenal and the story has a ton of potential. Can't. Freaking. Wait.
 
Odrion said:
It's because only two pages ago people were preemptively, like a bullied kid to a clenched fist, preparing themselves for critics to dump on yet another Sony AAA exclusive by predicting low metacritic scores. Some people said that they have enjoyed a lot of games that critics have slandered, such as Nier, which got a 68%. Then I pointed out why something like Nier would score low and find a loving fanbase and why it's not the same as Sony's AAA output. Then people replied to me, and I replied to them back.

But if you think it's off topic, let me bring Knack and Shadow Fall back around to the topic again: Like those two games, I really doubt that if The Order scores low it's going to be because critics won't understand it. The studio is trying to make a "cinematic" third person shooter, and their history is that they emulate genres very well. If it scores low, it's probably going to be because it's bad and not because critics misunderstood, didn't appreciate, or ignored innovative game design or unique aspects that fans will appreciate (ie Deadly Premonition, Nier, etc.)
Click to expand...

I take it you're referring to my posts among others. You might have missed it, but I mentioned multiplatform titles as well, like Destiny and Shadow of Memories, which have mediocre average on Metacritic, but were still enjoyable games. It's not about who the publisher is, it's about judging a game even before it's released, and criticizing it for using old gameplay formulas eventhough it apparently plays well. That just rubs me the wrong way.


EDIT:
LegendofDragoonLives said:
It's about opinions. I loved it personally, I loved the story as well. That, Chrono Cross, & FFIX were my favorite jRPGs of that generation that I consider arguably the best in terms of jRPGs (between that the gen following afterwards). But I know most people disagree with that, but I'm ok with it. :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like I might have liked it back then.

To tell the truth, I haven't played much JRPGs since the PS2 days, and even then FF was the only series I played. I guess FFXIII was just a final nail in the coffin for me, and I don't know if it's due to being older now, but the characters in the FFXV trailer just annoy me. It's probably partly due to their voices as well, and in retrospect I think it was a blessing that FFVII-IX had none.
 
Messofanego said:
What is with this spite pre-ordering trend? I've noticed it a lot here :P
Click to expand...

Spite pre-ordering? I'd certainly POST that I'd pre-ordered anything, if it irritates people who are telling me what to do, or people actually get psychologically disturbed by my OWN purchase decisions.

If there is anything shitty in this topic it is the attitude that people should hold a line together, not any spite pre-ordering. The ridiculous attitude that there is some stupid gamers solidarity going. FFS it is a game let people make their own decisions and mind your own business, or present your OWN case but crying over what someone else chooses to do is just asking to be punked.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

I personally don't really care for reviews, I read the content, play the game for myself and then compare what the reviewer felt to how I felt. But I do want it to get high review scores because it's something that I want to succeed and sadly metacritic plays a role in the success of products.
 
If the review thread being a war means this will turn out to be like Driveclub (barring any online issues).... I'm quite okay with that.

I can only hope I enjoy this game as much as DC.
 
From the very first trailer, I was interested and I think I really haven't seen alot of the media that has been made available.

As someone mentioned before, The Knights Of The Round Table in Victorian London with steampunk/futuristic weapons... This is something that isn't seen all that often and probably one of the reasons why I'm keen on it...

I've pre-ordered, not for the silly DLC that is available, but for the Steelbook and this marvellous creation...
124520.jpg


It shall go well with my Kratos Sackboy!
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

Job applications often have a provsio like: "have worked on shipped game with a 85+ metacritic.". Contracts often base bonuses on metacrtic scores. Obsidian went through some hard times because of that 84. Games are designed with critics in mind, and often part of the design staff is current/former critics. So there are reasons beyond fanboy wank.
 
koshunter said:
I meant it more in regards to Order not having major issues that would hurt it like DC's online did for that game. Such as FPS or big glitches.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. My biggest personal concern is the story/replayability. If it turns out to be another 6-8hr 3rd person shooter with a solely single player experience I don't think I could spend $60 on it unless the story is pretty great.
 
oggob said:
From the very first trailer, I was interested and I think I really haven't seen alot of the media that has been made available.

As someone mentioned before, The Knights Of The Round Table in Victorian London with steampunk/futuristic weapons... This is something that isn't seen all that often and probably one of the reasons why I'm keen on it...

I've pre-ordered, not for the silly DLC that is available, but for the Steelbook and this marvellous creation...
124520.jpg


It shall go well with my Kratos Sackboy!
Click to expand...
I want one of those Sackboy Galahad keychains so bad. I cross my fingers I get drawn whenever that comes up on the countdown contest.

You've got Kratos too? Damn, I want to collect the Sackboy keychains so bad.

koshunter said:
I meant it more in regards to Order not having major issues that would hurt it like DC's online did for that game. Such as FPS or big glitches.
Click to expand...
Given the game went gold almost a month before launch and the PSX demo's framerate was supposedly quite smooth I'm not too worried about bugs.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

Bad reviews -> bad sales -> developers making something else the next time, or changing the gameplay. I think Resistance 2 is a good example of where it could lead. That's why Driveclub's reviews pain me, as I worry there won't be another game like it.
 
Untalkative_Bunny said:
Good god no. That is halo/destiny Dev money.
Click to expand...

did you see teh champaigne and post gold party. I say 5 million on budget for that.

EDIT : on topic I assume its about 20 mil. Thats roughly where ND and most sony first party games cost. Take some away for no mp etc add some for engine dev.
 
RoboPlato said:
I want one of those Sackboy Galahad keychains so bad. I cross my fingers I get drawn whenever that comes up on the countdown contest.

You've got Kratos too? Damn, I want to collect the Sackboy keychains so bad.
Click to expand...

I have a helghast one from when I bought Killzone: Mercenary.
 
FinalStageBoss said:
I don't get why ppl are so worried about reviews. I struggle to give a fuck about what a game "journalist" has to say. Just play the game and enjoy it. If you don't, sell it. Unless it's just about a console fanboy/warrior thing, then fight on.
Click to expand...

Not so easy to do for digital purchases which is why reviews are important. On the other hand. I try to only buy physical copies for exactly the same reason.

Is there likely to be a demo?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Has Gone Gold
2
50
2K
Nonehxc replied
Marvel Rivals has gone Gold
17
993
Icymanipulator replied
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl has gone gold
2 3
105
7K
Toots replied
Dragon Age Veilguard has gone GOLD
News  2 3 4 5
200
16K
bender replied
LTTP: The Order 1886: Sir Gigachad (56k warning, screenshots)
Hype  2 3 4
169
7K
Regginator replied
Top Bottom