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[Krappadizzle]

This is another one of those situations where I would love a "fly on the wall" documentary or book that deconstructs the development of this game. Five years, including an 8 month delay? That's way, way out of line with the amount of content in the shipping product, per the reviews. Even taking time for engine development into consideration, it's still way off... unless the game went through many iterations.

This game took 5 years to make?

I mean I bought it and it's preloaded, but just knowing that and the amount of content in it, really grinds my gears. I really hope that they have a quicker turnaround on their next game. Though, by looking at the game it would seem that a lot of that time was spent on tech, which is understandable but maybe not the best business practice.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

is ths the longest review thread ever? wow!

Not even close. Destiny had 126 pages(12k posts) before it got locked.

This might be moving faster though.

 

[Seventy70]

If you don't agree with a reviewer's opinion, so what? You don't have to regard their score as some kind of law. Personally, I'm surprised people can actually like a game like this, but I'm not going around telling people their opinion is wrong.

Also, a lot of hard work went into these reviews, so don't hurt their feelings, guys.

 

[MYeager]

When hugely buggy games like MCC and Unity score higher, that's when the head scratching happens. Yeah I get that a reviewer can legit not like the game and score it down. But then when a polished yet flawed game starts to score 20's at some outlets who scored broken games much higher, that's when it becomes frustrating

Like explain what the fucking standard is, because an outlet praising a broken game and then condemning a polished game with poorly designed mechanics to 20% scoring. I just don't get where the standard is.

If there were only text attached to the scores that further explained the opinion held by the critic and how they reached that opinion we would be able to find out exactly what it was they were thinking.

Alas.

 

[swazzyswess]

The Order has set the gold standard for prerelease hoopla being more entertaining, and longer-lasting, than the game itself.

Also, I think someone should compile all of the rationalizations for why it's a great game. it'd be great to trot out as an example of how *usually* gamers are way more full of shit and bias than the journalists they love to rag on/threaten with injury/petition against.

 

[Messofanego]

I don't understand the Gametrailers review. Every good point had a "... but". Example: "But then later on you fight bigger enemies, but basically they are just a QTE event like in Resident Evil." or "later on you unlock cool weapons, but they don't really have a use". Among those others scores and their harsh critic 8.2 really seems strange. To be clear, I'm not critizing the game in any way. I'm just puzzled by that review, specially because Gametrailers reviews are one of the few I still watch.

Gametrailers have a long history of review scores not matching the content of the review. All the negatives in that review are enough to dissuade me, anyway.

 

[Heshinsi]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

 

[Orayn]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people (like Gametrailers) call it a "remarkable game", and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

"Personal bias" is the only thing that plays any role in any score. It's an arbitrary number attached to a subjective opinion. People gave The Order low scores because they didn't like it very much, end of.

 

[Ferrio]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

Who ever put the definition that low scores are only for non functioning game? I missed the memo.

 

[Hawk269]

There are plenty of other reasons as to why the game has scored as it has.

- Short single player
- Zero replay value
- Hand holding gameplay
- Bare bones in its gameplay structure
- Uninteresting weapons outside of a couple ones (which you can't even use whenever you want to)
- Underwhelming story

I think what you listed are legit reasons (based on reviews I read) on why the game is being beaten down. I have not played the game as of yet, but just reading the reviews it is being knocked for the reasons you listed. It seems, again based on reading reviews that they focused on nailing the visuals and not as much focus on other factors that make games a complete package where visuals and gameplay/story/ etc all come together to make a nice overall game.

With all the work that RAD put into it, it is a shame (based on reviews) that it is lacking in almost all the basic things that make a good game outside of visuals which they apparently nailed 100%.

 

[fluffydelusions]

I wasn't on GAF at the time either, but I do remember being pretty excited for it. Parkour + FPS drop in drop out coop/vs MP, awesome. Game came out and played like shit.

OT:Why did you get junior'd?

I was told I made too many topics with youtube videos =\

 

[Meccanical]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score,

A game that runs at 60fps can still be shit son.

Why is this hard for you.

 

[Gtagentleman]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

yeah but games are almost expected to be broken on release (BF4,Driveclub,Unity,LBP3)

 

[swazzyswess]

If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

Didn't you basically answer your own question? some sites rated it below average because, get this, they thought it was below average with or without technical flaws.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Still can't get over how poorly this game has reviewed at some outlets. Linear cinematic games really must be disliked by many in the industry. For me personally, unless this game suddenly turns shit towards the latter acts, I'm going to chalk this up to being another underrated title (user impressions would so far certainly correlate with that). Sort of feels like DriveClub all over again.

To those that are interested in cinematic, linear TPS, but have been put off by the reviews, rent it or buy it for cheap when the price goes down, I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah it's absolutely not getting slammed for that reason. Otherwise we would be seeing concern previews on RotTR, UC4, Quantum Break and any other game that's a part of the genre. We aren't.

Order seems to have legit problems, no need for reviewers to make any up to give it the scores they're giving it.

 

[Kacho]

Who ever put the definition that low scores are only for non functioning game? I missed the memo.

It happened over the last few days I believe. I found out a game can only be bad if it's broken or buggy.

 

[Soyongdori]

Didn't you basically answer your own question? some sites rated it below average because, get this, they thought it was below average with or without technical flaws.

But that would be mind blowing logic.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

This game took 5 years to make?

No. It didn't actually enter full development until the Ps4 dev kits released. Which I believe was sometime in 2012.

 

[Despera]

I seriously doubt this game touches the narrative of Nier, especially its replayability.

Yet they almost have the same score.

That arbitrary number means jack shit when it comes to what experience a game offers you, and how much enjoyment you can draw out of it. But the problem is that some consumers base their purchasing decision on it.

My point was that no matter the metascore, people should always check out the game themselves through gameplay vids and whatnot.

 

[MOG728]

Okay, so what games interest you on XBO now since you mention it?

Halo 5
Next Gears of War
Phantom Dust
Tomb Raider
Ori and the Blind Forest
Crackdown 3
Quantum Break
Scalebound

 

[Savantcore]

I do wonder what the reaction would be if The Order was half the standard price. A fantastic looking exclusive for $30/£20? They'd probably recoup the lost revenue through sheer volume of copies sold, and I imagine it would have a better reputation.

 

[Meccanical]

I do wonder what the reaction would be if The Order was half the standard price. A fantastic looking exclusive for $30/£20? They'd probably recoup the lost revenue through sheer volume of copies sold, and I imagine it would have a better reputation.

That's still too much.

 

[Archaix]

Who ever put the definition that low scores are only for non functioning game? I missed the memo.

Well, presumably the people who think The Order is a great game simply because it's pretty.

 

[Stereogatari]

This is why reviews are typically a joke. How many broken games have received 80+ scores over the last 10 years? Some people have the weirdest hatred for QTEs and linear gameplay. If it is polished and done well, no way should the game be held out as some kind of example or whatever the media in this industry wants to do with it. No consistency.

Polished and done well doesn't necessarily mean good game, and broken games/bugs doesn't necessarily mean bad game. Games are getting reviewed on whether they are great games or not, not whether they are great technical demos that utilise the hardware to its fullest.

I do wonder what the reaction would be if The Order was half the standard price. A fantastic looking exclusive for $30/£20? They'd probably recoup the lost revenue through sheer volume of copies sold, and I imagine it would have a better reputation.

If it was priced like inFamous First/Last Light, then yes. They would have done well for themselves.

 

[Kuro]

Yet they almost have the same score.

That arbitrary number means jack shit when it comes to what experience a game offers you, and how much enjoyment you can draw out of it. But the problem is that some consumers base their purchasing decision on it.

My point was that no matter the metascore, people should always check out the game themselves through gameplay vids and whatnot.

$60 is a lot of money to me personally. That's why its great that I can just rent this game for $5 and beat it in one day.

 

[FtsH]

I smell Lair allover again....

 

[Grimsen]

I just finished it. I had an OK time, the novelty guns were really cool, the graphics are astounding, but there were too many awful gameplay choices. The worst for me were the laughably bad lycan encounters and bosses. I wasn't expecting to fight humans for 99% of the time, either.

The game relied a lot on its narrative, but that part was only half baked. The world RAD created is fascinating, but the story itself is clichée and really incomplete.

I wouldn't give the game more than 6/10.

 

[Dynomutt]

This game took 5 years to make?

I mean I bought it and it's preloaded, but just knowing that and the amount of content in it, really grinds my gears. I really hope that they have a quicker turnaround on their next game. Though, by looking at the game it would seem that a lot of that time was spent on tech, which is understandable but maybe not the best business practice.

I don't know the first thing about game development. How long does it take to make a say.....PS4 /XBONE game?

 

[NIN90]

Review threads of hyped-up but metascoring below expectations games are always good for a hearty laugh. Especially when they are exclusives.

The posts where people declare that they don't care about reviews anyway and are buying the game regardless are my favorites. Also, bias.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

I think you mean to say "exchange of monies and gifts between hands behind the scenes", which may or may not be the case, but I highly doubt is the case with the vast majority of reviewers, even Polygon.

If it were, we'd need more proof. Let's see how Bloodborn does; by all the trends it should do damn well in reviews but if you suddenly start seeing low scores and stuff listed as bad that was praised in previews only weeks or months ago, that would be cause for legit suspicion and investigation.

We're not there yet and hopefully won't ever need to go there.

 

[Amir0x]

Still can't get over how poorly this game has reviewed at some outlets. Linear cinematic games really must be disliked by many in the industry. For me personally, unless this game suddenly turns shit towards the latter acts, I'm going to chalk this up to being another underrated title (user impressions would so far certainly correlate with that). Sort of feels like DriveClub all over again.

To those that are interested in cinematic, linear TPS, but have been put off by the reviews, rent it or buy it for cheap when the price goes down, I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

I don't think it's the linear cinematic aspect that is killing it. Linear cinematic games is practically this industry's trademark, the vast majority of its AAA games probably fall to some degree under that category. Excessive hand holding and linearity is a common criticism amongst forum goers about the state of modern game design.

When you look at the reviews, you see the problems is that it appears the execution of its element is what people are considering poor. Thermite weapon is the one novel piece of equipment everyone talks about, but apparently you only use it three times in the game? Everything else is routine or mediocre from a design perspective... at least, that's the average opinion in these reviews.

The real killer is the narrative though. In the average review, they are especially harsh on the poor narrative. Which is an absolute killer when you've spent so much time focusing on how cinematic and filmic your game is going to be... when you do that, narrative becomes extra important. The movie seems like B movie quality but without the tongue-in-cheek appeal that allows people to like so many B movies.

The impression one gets from reviews is just really poor... but I don't get the impression it's an attack against linear cinematic games. I get the impression that it's a poor execution of that concept.

I agree but I'm surprised so many gamers, even here, can't properly analyze gameplay videos. If you've been playing video-games for a while, the warning signs are very obvious. Same with No Man's Sky. People are impressed by the scale. That's it. Some don't even have a hint of doubts. I'm anticipating very much Zelda U, and that franchise is well known for its quality, but after the latest footage, I'm still doubtful they'll manage to fill that huge world with interesting stuff. I'm not blindly falling into the hype.

I really don't think the comparison to No Man's Sky is legit. The team really made only great products so far, and they have expressed in extreme detail precisely what to expect. Unlike The Order, NMS's problem is everyone else hoisting their hopes and dreams onto NMS because they actually are attempting some novel approaches to the randomizing algorithm that makes exploration seems distinct no matter where you go. It's supposed to be quite good in its execution. The Order is just a poor execution of a very routine standard bit of game design.

As long as you're reading what the developers of No Man's Sky are actually saying, the only way it'll disappoint is if it fails to execute its disparate gameplay elements poorly. It's possible, but if you expect lots of exploration, resource mining and an interpretive story, then that's what you're going to get. A spectacular expression of an exploration game with its gameplay all in service of helping you explore deeper and further. To some people, a game which focuses on a story you have to reach for, one that isn't laced with endless cutscenes, one where brutalizing things isn't -the- core goal (even though you can get into space fights and epic battles against robot protectors), is confusing to some folks.

I feel bad for the Hello Games people though. Despite being crystal clear about exactly what type of game No Man's Sky is, people have hoisted so many dreams on top of the concept that there's going to be a contingent disappointed no matter what. I doubt they'll disappoint me, considering I know exactly what they are setting out to make and none of the elements by themselves are outrageous goals. So I'm expecting a good 8/10 exploration game. But I won't cry if the game fails to execute. It happens. At least they didn't tell everyone that material-based destruction was a big part of their game design and fail to deliver (*cough* Ready at Dawn w/ The Order: 1886 *cough*).

 

[Tainted]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

Maybe, just maybe they are scoring the game based on the overall package and not just how well it runs.

 

[Ferrio]

Yet they almost have the same score.

That arbitrary number means jack shit when it comes to what experience a game offers you, and how much enjoyment you can draw out of it. But the problem is that some consumers base their purchasing decision on it.

My point was that no matter the metascore, people should always check out the game themselves through gameplay vids and whatnot.

Nier isn't the same thing. Nier is a very polarizing game, with a very limited audience. Either people absolutely love it, or the despise it. It's pretty much a cult classic, if you get it.. you get it. The Order was meant to enjoyable by a wide audience, and even then it seemed to have missed the mark. I doubt we're going to have fervent fanbase of The Order years down the line.

 

[swazzyswess]

This is why reviews are typically a joke. How many broken games have received 80+ scores over the last 10 years? Some people have the weirdest hatred for QTEs and linear gameplay. If it is polished and done well, no way should the game be held out as some kind of example or whatever the media in this industry wants to do with it. No consistency.

Games that are broken at launch can still turn out to be great games (or it's obvious there's the core of a great game beneath the technical flaws).

a game with faults of the sort that many find present in The Order will always have those faults. why is this so hard to grasp?

 

[Despera]

Well, presumably the people who think The Order is a great game simply because it's pretty.

Just check out GamingTrend's review...

Literally no game has ever looked this good.
It’s strange to even write that, but The Order: 1886 raises the bar so far above its contemporaries that it stands in a class by itself.
Joined by a soundtrack that perfects the mood, The Order is a cinematic masterpiece.

Replace "game" with "film" and you could change the entire context of this summary.

 

[Valentus]

Yep, that's why two recent GOTYs were Walking Dead and TLOU.

walking dead (and games like that) is the point and click adventures of XXI century. Everybody loves point and click adventures, even if they have even less interactivity than The Order.

TLOU is a different beast and had Druckmann. Everything that man touches turns it in gold.

 

[NIGHT-]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10. I get to thinking that personal bias starts playing a major role into these scores. If the game is "average", why is it getting below average scores from some sites? Scores reserved for totally broken, and barely playable games.

Maybe it's just not a good game? A game can be bug free but still be boring and a chore to play, which is where the Order stands..

 

[boredandlazy]

Review threads of hyped-up but metascoring below expectations games are always good for a hearty laugh. Especially when they are exclusives.

The posts where people declare that they don't care about reviews anyway and are buying the game regardless are my favorites. Also, bias.

So because it reviews poorly, there's no chance people might be able to enjoy the game?
If I listened to reviews like they were gospel I would never have purchased DriveClub.

 

[schaft0620]

The Digital Trends review is killing TO1886 and its a bad review. 38 games reviewed and The Order is his lowest ranked game with a score of 20.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/game-reviews/the-order-1886-review/

Edit: He also gave The Evil Within a 40, Sunset Overdrive a perfect score, Dragon Age a 70, Alien: Isolation a 60,

Edit: fixed metacritic error

 

[Miyukipedia]

When a game that has little to no performance hiccups gets reviews where some people give a decent score, and others give it a 4/10.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure its easy to get very few performance hiccups when you decide to not render the entire screen under the excuse of "cinematic experience"

 

[freefornow]

I don't care what the reviews are, I'm buying the game and playing the shit out of it! Looks so good. I'm floored by the visuals.

Me too. Except the visuals are not a deciding factor for me when purchasing a game.

Wide range of reviews is good IMO. Again, not a deciding factor when purchasing a game.

Game looks interesting to me (setting, theme etc). There's my deciding factor.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I don't know the first thing about game development. How long does it take to make a say.....PS4 /XBONE game?

I think most AAA games take on/around 3 years to make. Indies can be a lot less or more depending on the dev.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Halo 5
Next Gears of War
Phantom Dust
Tomb Raider
Ori and the Blind Forest
Crackdown 3
Quantum Break
Scalebound

We know absolutely nothing on the next Gears.

343 is on Halo 5 and the series has been on a downward spiral since 4.

We know nothing on Phantom Dust

Tomb Raider looks legit good

Ori looks legit good

Know nothing on Crackdown 3 yet

Quantum Break looks legit good but the TV episode stuff is extremely worrying

Scalebound looks kinda cheesy and boring going off that trailer.

Seems to me you're riding mostly on name recognition than going by any substantial video or hands-on proof of the new iterations of the sequels if anything, and falling for classic "not representative of final product" premier trailers for most of the others.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Fuck me 139 pages. :O

 

[charsace]

The Order has set the gold standard for prerelease hoopla being more entertaining, and longer-lasting, than the game itself.

Also, I think someone should compile all of the rationalizations for why it's a great game. it'd be great to trot out as an example of how *usually* gamers are way more full of shit and bias than the journalists they love to rag on/threaten with injury/petition against.

You must be a kid if you think this is the first time something like this has happened. Shit like this went down on AOL Ant Army.

 

[Orthogonal]

Fuck me 139 pages. :O

You mis-typed 70.

 

[Stuggernaut]

I'm still going to play it at some point. Just to experience it for myself, good or bad, I don't care. Someone obviously put a lot of love in to this game.

While the game takes a beating, I hope RAD can see the good things they did and take the rest constructively. It really seems like they had a goal in mind and got kneecapped at some point in development based on what I am reading.

That engine, and the talent that RAD has, with some direction, has a ton of potential. Hope they come out of all this negatively with some positive outlook.

 

[nib95]

There are plenty of other reasons as to why the game has scored as it has.

- Short single player
- Zero replay value
- Hand holding gameplay
- Bare bones in its gameplay structure
- Uninteresting weapons outside of a couple ones (which you can't even use whenever you want to)
- Underwhelming story

For you, though, every single Sony title is underrated because they're all perfect in your eyes, or almost anyway. Sony exclusives just can't do anything wrong. I think you're probably the last guy in the world that Amirox would include in his list. You write well, and I respect that you're a huge Sony fan, but as a whole you just come off as a huge fanboy.

Please don't resort to the nonsense in the latter half of your post. Keep it civil? It's not like I harp on about InFamous or Knack being underrated. The meta for Second Son is pretty close to what I'd have given it as a score anyway. But DriveClub, and now The Order, imo are underrated (DriveClub a lot more so).

Also, maybe the game lacks replayability to you, but as I've said before that's subjective (and something journalists could agree with you on and rightfully dock points for). I'll personally be playing it a second time so it has some replayability to me.

On the topic of it being short, that's again subjective based on the gamers experience. For days you peddled this 5 hour number as the definitive completion length for the game, implying all other GAFers with their longer play times were wrong or lying, and guess what, it turns out that 5 (in reality 5 and a half) hour figure really was an outlier on the shorter side. Most reviews are stating times from anything between 7 and 11 hours, not one is 5 hours, not even a single GAF play through so far has been stated to be that short either, yet that's what you ran with.

Anyway, I digress. Point is, it is indeed linear, and also fairly by the books, and lacking additional content, I agree with you on all of these things, but that in itself doesn't warrant some of the kind of scathing negativity the game has garnered, in my opinion anyway. It is still mechanically solid, with good gunplay, excellent feeling and sounding weapons, decent AI, great VA and characters, a so far decent story (I've yet to complete it, though I have read the ending is shit), an impeccable sound score, immensely accomplished visuals, and a nice amount of diversity to the locales and pacing. From exposition, to gun battles, stealth, bosses etc. Admittedly not all of these are as successfully implemented as the rest, but it's still a competent effort. The world in the game is also beautifully well realised, with incredible attention to detail and art that transcends the atmosphere in most similar TPS.

Not saying this game is some masterpiece, not even close. It has flaws, plenty of them, but to me as a whole it is greater than the sum of its parts, and it's short comings. I'm clearly not alone in my thinking, because we have about 35 impressions of the game that offer a similar sentiment (the vast majority in fact do). You are however free to disagree, just as I am to disagree with the conclusions of some of these reviews. Perhaps lay off the personal attacks though. There is no need for that.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Okay, so what games interest you on XBO now since you mention it?

Did I mention the XB1?

Forza Horizon 2, Sunset Overdrive and Halo Master Chief Collection (if it's working) and the upcoming Halo 5 and Forza 6. Is there a point like this is going to turn into some favouritism or something because the XB1 hasn't really hit home with me either which is why I don't own either one yet.

 

[NIGHT-]

You mis-typed 70.

Depends on how many post you allow per page