The Order 1886 Review Thread

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Just got my copy delivered at work, is sure not same knowing it not that good of game. I basically bought it for the same reason I bought Advent Children and pacific Rim...inspirational eye candy.

Crossing my fingers for Bloodbourne
 
For real, I don't give a shit if this game plays like Barney's Hide & Seek. Is the story good? That's all I really care about.

I mean, I played through the first Assassin's Creed so I think I can suffer through some shitty gameplay.

If gameplay truly is mediocre though, that is sad for the people who were looking forward to that aspect. I feel for you.
 
Alec2DaBreen said:
For real, I don't give a shit if this game plays like Barney's Hide & Seek. Is the story good? That's all I really care about.

I mean, I played through the first Assassin's Creed so I think I can suffer through some shitty gameplay.

If gameplay truly is mediocre though, that is sad for the people who were looking forward to that aspect. I feel for you.
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Apparently it's not great. Like it feels like the game cuts of right when it starts getting good to save room for the sequel.
 
Mr. Giggles said:
Bingo-Bango

This is exactly what I like to do. If I don't play different styles I start to get fatigued..

I believe this is how we as a community start to move gaming closer to a medium of art.
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I also like changing style all the time
howevers, a full priced game that has a 6-7 hours story mode and nothing else is ridiculous.
I loved TLOU but it wasnt 7 hours... and it had multiplayer and replayability.
I even enjoy the SP campaings of COD games... but without the MP, charging full price for those would be a bad joke.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
That's the thing, no one excuses bad movies. There wasn't a 100 page thread when Grown Ups 2 came out where people were telling other people that they shouldn't be so harsh on Adam Sandler for making another bad movie.

They get bad reviews and get shit on and no one has a problem with it. It's only in video games where for some reason, calling out that something is terrible is seen as an affront to the medium instead of valid criticism.

The writing has very little to do with when I feel triumphant. That has far more to do with my actual ability to complete the task the game gave me. I can get the same feeling of triumph from a video game that has no story or characters in it as I do from the ones that have a narrative.

And no, that's not how it works. You can just say, "There is good writing, you're wrong." That's an entirely subjective opinion. I also didn't say that there weren't stand outs in writing in the medium of video games, just that even those high points aren't even getting close to matching the high points from every other medium.

I was referring to the story of a video game, which while debatable, I think most people agree is probably the weakest aspect of video games as they stand right now. Not the idea of cinematic games in general. Gears of Wars story isn't that great. It's decent with some interesting lore. If that game had terrible game play, no one would be talking about Gears of War in 2015.

I also enjoy block buster movies, the difference is that block buster movies don't have a chance at wasted interactivity that could make the movie better just because the people behind the movie chose not to focus on it. Game play is a very important aspect to telling a story in a video game, and people trying to deny that are doing a disservice to the medium they're working in.
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You saying when I felt triumph when my character succeeded and then saying it's not because of writing, like it wasn't what the people behind the game wanted is what I'm saying ridiculous, what happens in the game is because of the writing, so the thing that you have to triumph over was written there specifically to beat. All games have writing in it no matter how simple, also if you are saying you don't disagree that there are great moments of writing then I don't really know what your point was.

Who's denying gameplay isn't important for a story? I have said that the writing for a game has to be different for a game precisely because of gameplay, Obviously it's important but what I'm saying is that people saying the best gaming has to offer is only comparable to B grade movies is utterly ridiculous and to say that you have to ignore all the best moments in gaming and the awesome characters in them too.
 
Steel said:
Why do you think they're weak though? Is it that you believe that the medium is somehow less capable of presenting a good story than other mediums? I think the answer is far far more obvious, it's because games need to sell well more than other mediums and stories like the Transformers and Avengers of the world sell the best. Gears emulates the emphasis on spectacle that these two movies have going for them to its benefit, it's not purely the gameplay that's the appeal here and that's the cinematic aspect.

And to your last point, you could look at Bioshock which didn't excel in gameplay to nearly the extent that Gears did and is still remembered fondly.

Also, let me be clear, I'm not defending The Order at all, I think the crictism is well placed, I just don't like how cinematic has a negative connotation when it comes to games, when there are plenty of cinematic games with good gameplay.
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I think the writing talent isn't there, and until it is, it's a terrible idea to bank the success of your video game on it. I don't know why you think I have a problem with cinematic games in general. Maybe you hadn't seen my other post, but I've said I like some cinematic games.

You're right, Gears does mix game play and cinematic story telling together to make a great game. In fact, that's in part WHY it's a great game. If you were to take either of those two things out what you would be left with isn't very interesting. If you take out the game play, the story and lore isn't enough to hold most people's attention. If you take out the lore and story, the game play, while good, becomes less meaningful.

Which is where the problem seems to lie with the Order. From all impressions I've heard and all of the videos I've seen, the Order doesn't do either of these things very well. They took most of their focus and put it on their story, and the story isn't good enough to carry the whole game. They seem to have put very little focus on the game play comparatively, and I haven't seen anyone say the game play in the Order is anything but serviceable. So what we were left with is a game that doesn't do anything particularly well.

Gears of War is everything the Order is not when it comes to a cinematic game. It uses the interactivity of video games and pairs it well with the storytelling style of a movie.

The Order isn't an example of why cinematic story telling in video games is bad, it's an example of a bad cinematic video game that misses all of the aspects you need to make a good cinematic video game.
 
People who say that all game writing is worse than all Hollywood writing aren't really thinking about the depths of Hollywood writing.

I mean, shit like The Following, Bleach, and Two Broke Girls still get put on the air. Jack & Jill, Twilight, and Alone in the Dark still get basic cable reruns.

Compared to that, Mass Effect or Portal or Uncharted don't look so bad.
 
RipperGrim said:
You saying when I felt triumph when my character succeeded and then saying it's not because of writing, like it wasn't what the people behind the game wanted is what I'm saying ridiculous, what happens in the game is because of the writing, so the thing that you have to triumph over was written there specifically to beat. All games have writing in it no matter how simple, also if you are saying you don't disagree that there are great moments of writing then I don't really know what your point was.

Who's denying gameplay isn't important for a story? I have said that the writing for a game has to be different for a game precisely because of gameplay, Obviously it's important but what I'm saying is that people saying the best gaming has to offer is only comparable to B grade movies is utterly ridiculous and to say that you have to ignore all the best moments in gaming and the awesome characters in them too.
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Just because something happens because of the writing doesn't mean you feel good because of the writing of the video game. I played Far Cry 3 and 4 and half payed attention to the plot because it was horrible. It didn't make any of the things I did in the games less enjoyable. I had fun shooting down a helicopter with a grenade launcher because the act of shooting down the helicopter was fun. Not because someone in a cut scene told me to go do it. I couldn't have cared less about any of the characters in the last two Far Cry games, they're horribly written and boring characters. There is much more that goes into what happens in a video game then just the writing of the story, and those things (Level design/mission structure/controls) and overcoming those things are what makes me feel triumph.

I didn't feel good about beating Far Cry 4 because I saved a bunch of fictional people and their island, I felt good about beating Far Cry 4 because I beat the challenge the game put in front of me. If I were to base my feelings solely of how I felt about the characters I would have just quit the game, because I didn't care what happened to them because they were all written so badly.

My point was that the highest points of video game writing rate about as high as mediocre writing in movies to me. I like some action movies that aren't written fantastically, but video games are like if the entire movie industry was like those action movies. It doesn't even come close to comparing in quality. Just because I don't think every video game story is complete shit doesn't mean I think it holds up to what I see as quality writing in other mediums.
 
RipperGrim said:
Who's denying gameplay isn't important for a story? I have said that the writing for a game has to be different for a game precisely because of gameplay, Obviously it's important but what I'm saying is that people saying the best gaming has to offer is only comparable to B grade movies is utterly ridiculous and to say that you have to ignore all the best moments in gaming and the awesome characters in them too.
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It's not ridiculous, it's the absolute truth. Particularly on consoles.
Can you even name, say 20 games with an excellent story?
Mass Effect? B grade sci-fi, nothing exceptionnal
MGS? B grade espionage stuff
Silent Hill 2, ok
TLOU, ok
Compared to dozens and dozens of brilliant movie stories. There's just no competition.
Most game stories are teenage boy fantasies.
 
TLOU isn't that special when you realize it's mostly cliches, there are contradictions in everything, and characters talk when they shouldn't and stuff like that. I guess some of that would be more screenplay though?
 
KooopaKid said:
That's exactly why I'm happy to see those scores. Their vision of the future of video-games just plain sucks.They should move to the movie industry where they belong.
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I, personally, like that vision - however it was never going to be the "future of video games". We will always have our Marios and our Zeldas. Acting like that is not the case is plain ignorance. Furthermore, so is resisting change and progress.

I, and many others, have really liked what we have seen from The Order - how arrogant can one be to say we can't have that because YOU don't like it?

KooopaKid said:
It's not ridiculous, it's the absolute truth. Particularly on consoles.
Can you even name, say 20 games with an excellent story?
Mass Effect? B grade sci-fi, nothing exceptionnal
MGS? B grade espionage stuff
Silent Hill 2, ok
TLOU, ok
Compared to dozens and dozens of brilliant movie stories. There's just no competition.
Most game stories are teenage boy fantasies.
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Question, what do you consider an excellent movie story?
 
KooopaKid said:
It's not ridiculous, it's the absolute truth. Particularly on consoles.
Can you even name, say 20 games with an excellent story?
Mass Effect? B grade sci-fi, nothing exceptionnal
MGS? B grade espionage stuff
Silent Hill 2, ok
TLOU, ok
Compared to dozens and dozens of brilliant movie stories. There's just no competition.
Most game stories are teenage boy fantasies.
Click to expand...
The thing is that games have different strengths and weaknesses in comparison to movies, if they try to tell a story like a movie does it will undoubtedly not be as good as if the story was told in movie/tv series form.
But yeah, not all games have awful stories and not all movies have great stories either.
 
Jac said:
I, personally, like that vision - however it was never going to be the "future of video games". We will always have our Marios and our Zeldas. Acting like that is not the case is plain ignorance. Furthermore, so is resisting change and progress.

I, and many others, have really liked what we have seen from The Order - how arrogant can one be to say we can't have that because YOU don't like it?
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I think he was happy because he found out that it's not just him who doesn't like it, it's most people. And that means it probably won't become popular.
 
kunonabi said:
The gameplay was never an afterthought in Silent Hill 2 or Shadow of Memories. Much of the actual psychological horror in SH2 is constructed through the gameplay not the cutscenes.
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SH2's combat was anything but challenging, and it wasn't crucial to the overall experience. And much like in Heavy Rain, the challenge in SOM came from doing the tasks and moving the story to a desired direction. In SOM's case you just couldn't lose any of the characters, IIRC. If they were released today, I think they would be treated differently, which just goes to show how the narrative has changed.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Apparently it's not great. Like it feels like the game cuts of right when it starts getting good to save room for the sequel.
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Cool, thanks. I'll wait for the sequel then.

If back in 2007 someone told me the way that Assassin's Creed 3 was going to end, I wouldn't've wasted my time with the series. I'm trying not to make that mistake again.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
People who say that all game writing is worse than all Hollywood writing aren't really thinking about the depths of Hollywood writing.

I mean, shit like The Following, Bleach, and Two Broke Girls still get put on the air. Jack & Jill, Twilight, and Alone in the Dark still get basic cable reruns.

Compared to that, Mass Effect or Portal or Uncharted don't look so bad.
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You're comparing what is considered bottom of the barrel in Hollywood to what is considered top of the line in gaming.
 
Beelzebufo said:
TLOU isn't that special when you realize it's mostly cliches, there are contradictions in everything, and characters talk when they shouldn't and stuff like that. I guess some of that would be more screenplay though?
Click to expand...
What contradictions are in TLOU and who talks when they shouldn't? What is cliche other the beginning
Ellie is the cure to save mankind
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
People who say that all game writing is worse than all Hollywood writing aren't really thinking about the depths of Hollywood writing.

I mean, shit like The Following, Bleach, and Two Broke Girls still get put on the air. Jack & Jill, Twilight, and Alone in the Dark still get basic cable reruns.

Compared to that, Mass Effect or Portal or Uncharted don't look so bad.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. There has been some good writing to come out of video games but it usually pales to the best of a similar genre in film.
 
KooopaKid said:
Most game stories are teenage boy fantasies.
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What is a man fantasy and why do "teenage boy fantasies" dominate when it comes to competing for the attention of adults, in and out of games?

People should be focusing on atmosphere, not story. It's like no one knows how to talk about videogames (among many things).
 
Riposte said:
What is a man fantasy and why do "teenage boy fantasies" dominate when it comes to competing for the attention of adults, in and out of games?

People should be focusing on atmosphere, not story. It's like no one knows how to talk about videogames (among many things).
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If the video game in question is focusing on story, or even a combination of atmosphere and story, people absolutely should be focusing on story.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
People who say that all game writing is worse than all Hollywood writing aren't really thinking about the depths of Hollywood writing.

I mean, shit like The Following, Bleach, and Two Broke Girls still get put on the air. Jack & Jill, Twilight, and Alone in the Dark still get basic cable reruns.

Compared to that, Mass Effect or Portal or Uncharted don't look so bad.
Click to expand...

Controversial opinion time: The Following, while absolutely terrible in a deliciously entertaining way, features better writing than 99.99999999999999% of video games.

Video game writing is terrible in a way that other mediums can't even compare to.
 
KooopaKid said:
It's not ridiculous, it's the absolute truth. Particularly on consoles.
Can you even name, say 20 games with an excellent story?
Mass Effect? B grade sci-fi, nothing exceptionnal
MGS? B grade espionage stuff
Silent Hill 2, ok
TLOU, ok
Compared to dozens and dozens of brilliant movie stories. There's just no competition.
Most game stories are teenage boy fantasies.
Click to expand...

"Particularly on consoles"? Care to elaborate?
 
Alec2DaBreen said:
For real, I don't give a shit if this game plays like Barney's Hide & Seek. Is the story good? That's all I really care about.

I mean, I played through the first Assassin's Creed so I think I can suffer through some shitty gameplay.

If gameplay truly is mediocre though, that is sad for the people who were looking forward to that aspect. I feel for you.
Click to expand...
There's a massive cliffhanger and the story begins just when it ends.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
If the video game in question is focusing on story, or even a combination of atmosphere and story, people absolutely should be focusing on story.
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A videogame cannot focus on "story". Atmosphere, which wholly encapsulates such a concept, is always what the player experiences. The story (plot? characterization? lore?) may dominate the atmosphere (only in cases where other qualities are lacking, so never for "cinematic" games), but it is never separate from the overall feeling of the piece (this is atmosphere).
 
Kintaro said:
Because video games touch the inner child in us. We become attached to it one way or the other. And like children, people don't want to let go, don't like what they like to be criticized and lash out. Problem is, people lash out in dumbass adult ways (such as harassment, threats and shit). =/
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When I was a kid I still criticized games that I thought were bad on BBS and Compuserve. The people that are mad about this game being criticized are fanboys which have existed since the days of NES and SMS.
 
Always-honest said:
All three are mindbogglingly great. Haha.
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I didn't watch the Hitler one but the first two are just so well done. The timing and matching up in the laughing vid is perfect. It kills me when he mutters "5 hours" during the laugh. The Usual Suspects one has a lot of detail and is equally as well made. This thread has been incredible. I mentioned it before but I didn't think it would deliver on the hype but it did.
 
Heavy said:
I didn't watch the Hitler one but the first two are just so well done. The timing and matching up in the laughing vid is perfect. It kills me when he mutters "5 hours" during the laugh. The Usual Suspects one has a lot of detail and is equally as well made. This thread has been incredible. I mentioned it before but I didn't think it would deliver on the hype but it did.
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Hitler one has a great ending
 
Riposte said:
A videogame cannot focus on "story". Atmosphere, which wholly encapsulates such a concept, is always what the player experiences. The story (plot? characterization? lore?) may dominate the atmosphere (only in cases where other qualities are lacking, so never for "cinematic" games), but it is never separate from the overall feeling of the piece (this is atmosphere).
Click to expand...
No, but it plays into it in a very important way in many cases and if the story is badly written, it can make you care less about the atmosphere the developers are attempting to surround you in. If story can dominate the atmosphere and is part of what makes the atmosphere itself, then why shouldn't it be judged if it's done poorly and is a detriment to the game? If the atmosphere itself is something people should be focusing on with their criticism, then why shouldn't people break down what makes the atmosphere and be able to criticize it on it's individual basis and how it plays into the entire product?
 
Sodding_Gamer said:
I think some of these reviews are just ridiculous in my honest opinion. I mean Splatterhouse is rated 62 on metacritic for gods sake. In no way do I think The Order should be 2 points higher than Splatterhouse lmao. That's ludicrous. Should be much higher.
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This thread really is worse than the Uncharted 3 one.
 
Finally got to play this today and I have to say I don't get where all the hate is coming from. Is it the most brilliant thing ever? Probably not, but it's definitely well polished and fun to play. Also, I know for a fact one reviewer is full of shit or just took bad notes. They said every encounter with a Lycan is a QTE and I can confirm that's not true. There are huge chunks of uninterrupted gameplay, which also seems to contradict what professional reviewers are saying. Maybe what is a huge chunk to one person is just a little smidge to someone else.
 
Jesus, Kotaku murders the game:

"The Order is a third-person shooter somewhat like Gears of War, if Gears of War had been a bad game instead of a good one. "

"Do you like movies? Do you like video games? If you answered "yes" to either of those questions, you should probably skip The Order: 1886."

Harsh.
 
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