Most film critics write like that, not just Siskel and Ebert. The idea that you have to earn the right to laugh at an entertainment product is fucking ludicrous.
If you think you'll enjoy it, then pick it up.
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The Order 1886 Review Thread
- Thread starter The Sarcastic Dude
- Start date
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Bu-bu-but Gamez journalizmssss!!!!
qa_engineer
Member
Nowhere in my post did I mention anyone bring wrong or right. Its more a matter of not letting negative reviews prevent me from buying a game or swaying my opinion. Did you come here to tell me that I will hate the game as well? Thanks but no thanks.
The biggest complaints:
1) Too short (3-4 hours of pure gameplay). Not only is it short, but it has zero replay value. Like there's nothing after you beat it. Other games in the same genre either have a multiplayer mode, co-op mode, challenge mode, or hell even a new game+ mode. The game couldn't even have a new game+ mode though since there's no unlockables or even an upgrade system.
2) Too bare bones in its gameplay structure. Cut scenes followed by sections of regular shooting/cover sections. Nothing special outside of a few forced stealth sections, which are more annoying than they do good. Rinse and repeat. No upgrade system when it comes to weapons, nothing.
3) Hand holding gameplay. There are times when you can't even move in a 3D space, because the game wants you to do exactly what they want you to do. There are times mid game where you think you're still playing the tutorial. There are times when the game takes the control away from you for no reason at all.
4) Some QTE heavy segments, especially in the beginning. Last part spoiler:
the last boss is a QTE boss, basically.
5) The Lycan encounters are very repetitive and are probably the least interesting enemies in the game, even though they really shouldn't be considering the competition.
6) The Thermite weapon is cool. Unfortunately you only use it three times during the game.
7) Unskippable cut scenes are annoying if you want to do a second run or you want to collect collectibles. The game doesn't even track what collectibles you've collected.
8) There are chapters in the game where you don't even control the character. This is a video game. Yeah, I know, cinematic experience yada yada... Still.
9) It's super linear. There are times when the enemies can't even flank you because the pathway ahead is too linear.
10) Underwhelming story.
CambriaRising
Member
Only if it sells well. Both Heavy Rain and Beyond did IIRC. I think The Order will as well.
Honestly, the game has this weird stigma of being heavy on QTE sequences but it really is not.
There really aren't many QTEs in the game.
Most of it is mixed between cinematics, where you do nothing but watch, sequences where you walk around the environment, and actual shooting. It's not really a QTE focused game at all.
Honestly, based on your tastes, you probably won't be disappointed. I genuinely enjoyed it myself. All of the complaints are valid but, somehow, I still thought it was a cool experience and worth going through. While playing it before release, though, it was pretty clear to me that most people would probably hate it.
I think that's unfair criticism truthfully, but it does highlight one of my qualms I have with it.
I don't think The Order trusts you to be respectful with its story.
I'm on Chapter 4 and am really, really enjoying it so far. People confuse writing with overall story for some reason. The actual writing(dialogue) is damn good, I cant speak to the story though, only a third of the way through.
Also, I love the methodical nature of the pace. Really well balanced in terms of the actual game-play pace.
Honestly, my problem with The Order is the same problem I had with UC2. It doesn't seem to trust you with playing the story elements. I noticed in the Prologue(which is a great microcosm of my problems so far) that there were so many moments that could have been playable/interactive and still have maintained the presentation offered. So far there have been several moments where I am looking at the screen and wondering "Why wont you just let me play this but still use this level of framing?" as opposed to just watching it.
Regardless of any contention, UC3 was a leap forward in that it always had you interacting with Drake, be it pushing the stick forward to peel him off tall the bathroom stall wall or pushing the stick forward to get him off his feet. Even though there is objectively more cutscenes in UC3 than UC2, UC3 just felt more playable overall. I just dont know why Galahad moving across a wall has to be a cutscene as opposed to me pushing him across the wall, etc.
That's my biggest problem so far.
Well it's a review thread and I just gave a brief review of what I've played. Really I should be asking what the point of your posts are?
qa_engineer
Member
So I can't contribute my own personal, first impressions? Sorry it doesn't fall in line with the negative reviews from the professional gamers who have a platform to convey their ideas, and sorry I don't hate the game thus far.
Watching it last night I was actually really really surprised how awesome that weapon was. Then they took it from him and I was like "Whaaaaaa..." The design is so brilliant and stupid at the same time.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I don't think it's ridiculous. I haven't seen anything from video games that I consider to be any better then those movies.
I don't agree that horror games shit all over horror movies, and you're also picking what is seen as one of the worst genres in film history when it comes to writing, so it's not exactly an accomplishment. Horror movies are about at the same level as action movies are when it comes to writing. Just as the Walking Dead game being better then the show (Which I also don't agree with, as I couldn't even finish the first season of the game out of boredom) isn't exactly an accomplishment either, as Walking Dead show doesn't have very good writing in the first place. It's essentially a weekly horror movie, which I've already pointed out are not really known for their writing in the first place, generally. It frequently has bad pacing, under developed characters and a meandering plot. So it's not exactly a high bar you're shooting for.
I think you just have a lower bar as to what you think good writing is then I do.
Chilled_Eskim01
Member
Seriously? A conspiracy against RAD/Sony? Look, I love the PS4 (even if it's my friend's), and have enjoyed a lot of time on the platform. I also love RAD's previous works on the PSP, with Daxter being a rather sweet memory of years past.
But this game just isn't very good... It's beautifully rendered, it has a great sense of atmosphere and the gunplay is pretty damn satisfying. It's just that everything else about the game is so... average. Not the worst thing ever to be made, but certainly not a good game.
Plus, even if I'm not too terribly bothered by long cutscense (although unskippable is unreasonable and hurts replayability), the constant action prompts and reuse of overly boring QTEs is a HUGE negative for me.
Most of these posts are opinions, for better or for worse. I'd hope that folks could at least respect that without resorting to thinking we're all in on this trying to take down RAD and this franchise (which I hope it becomes). It reminds me quite a lot of Assassin's Creed 1. Decent foundation for a good series, as long as it's not overplayed.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
My copy will be in the mail tomorrow. Looking forward to playing and watching it.
I can't believe we are on page 84.
I can't believe we are on page 84.
Agreed.
Internally I imagine both Sony and RAD are pleased with The Order 1886. We've got no indication this is anything other than the exact product they set out to design. There's not been any talk of development hell, changes of vision or the like. They've made it, pretty much exactly as they've always talked about, and released a working product. It's a shame the reviews aren't higher, but it's the product they wanted to make.
I think the game will do OK for itself in terms of both sales and word of mouth from players.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Seems like it is selling great despite the reviews, no.1 in Amazon charts here (UK).
neogaf never ceases to amaze me.
nycgamer4ever
Member
That is assuming everyone finishes the game in 5 hours bro. We already know that is NOT the case so I'm not sure why you are running with this number. Every game can be completed in way less time than the average time but that is not the norm. I know how I play games and just about every time I finish a game it takes me way longer than what the lowest play time is. I fully expect to finish this in about 9 to 10 hours. You are taking the worst case scenario and using that as example which is not realistic.
Do you ignore positive reviews or is it only negative ones? =P Do you ignore all reviews? Obviously not, you're in this thread.
I don't know if you'll hate the game or not. Why not finish it first? You're 1/3 through the game. =)
CambriaRising
Member
The irony is so thick a butter knife could slice it.
agree but im sure sony is concerned about the metacritic ratings of its first party/second party output lately. heavy rain was pretty well received but post tlou everything has been decent (infamous) , so so (killzone) to bad (order). But then again nd and ssm haven't shown their hand yet and im pretty sure bloodborne will be the first real goty contender.
nycgamer4ever
Member
That is because contrary to what the paid critics think, gamers have a brain and smart enough to sort through the bullshit.
I honestly didn't understand this: They very deliberately introduce a gameplay mechanic, but then don't actually capitalize on it in terms of broader gameplay. In a game where it would be quite easy to conceptualize a scenario for equipment that breaks down barriers, but is also basically a calling card for surrounding threats, imagine a boss encounter (for example) where you're trapped in a subterranean sewer-way with a larger, slower enemy. You need to get from one side of that zone to the other, clearing derelict piping blocking the pathway, but not alerting the resident threat.
I would LOVE to see segments like that.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I think WoM is going to devastate this game.
qa_engineer
Member
I don't pay attention to any reviews. Thanks for letting me know how long the game I would have never know without your snarky comments.
Edit: for those of you in here who are seriously considering buying the game I suggest you form your own opinion and don't let the reviews deter you. Buy it used, borrow it or whatever you want.
Freeman
Banned
Bummer. This game is cursed.
ps: OsirisBlack, sorry you got banned, save that code for me mate.
Thanks for your quick review. It's nice to hear from other Gaffers who has/is playing it
I saw that.. I was like... that was unnecessary. It's ok, if people decide to dislike the game and would never buy it... stop giving other people a hard time lol
I agree we could sit here until we are blue in the face to argue about what falls under the "video game" title.
I do feel as technology progresses we can allow for more open world gameplay, where the user can do what he/she wants to. Games are evolving (for the better) and I'm excited to see where they go.
But here is where my argument somewhat falters, and something I'm trying to understand, if games are linear are they all just interactive entertainment games (movie-esque games) - I guess for a large part of these past two generation devs have been trying to emulate the movie industry in some way? You are technically going in one direction, getting past "arenas" to hit the next bit of spoon fed information ala Gears of War. Some games offer a bit more freedom in how you approach it, but for the most part games are stuck in the mold of the player being placed in a large arena and asked to go from point A to B in order to progress through the storyline laid forth. This is where games like GTA differentiate and break that mold, and that is what makes them so fun and beloved - and the best selling video game in modern gaming.
I think with The Order 1886 failures are: the pricepoint, the pre-release hype, and what turned out to be a game based on game that came nearly 10 years ago really didn't help its case. All this for what amounted to a 5 year development time - something was seriously mismanaged for the game to turn out so uninspired and bland.
nycgamer4ever
Member
I think the developers care about the metacritic because they want to see what people think about their creation, however bottom line for publishers is the sales number. As long as it sells they will be happy.
Oh lighten up. =)
Also, this is a lie. You're in a review thread. So, you obviously do pay attention. At least a little. Enough to post in fact.
I'm looking forward to picking up my copy (rent) too. So, I can see if the reviewers are right or wrong as well.
pppfffff what?? if anything its the average gamer who is more swayed by the insane marketing behind this game. The last time sony pushed a game this much was tlou and that was a genuine masterpiece. I expect lots of disappointed ppl especially if they go in expecting something of tomb raider caliber (not going to even bother comparing it to tlou/uc2).
I expecdt this game will do well just because of the marketing push behind it. Inspite of informed opinions from critics otherwise. While I agree some of the critics were a bit too harsh and many of the twitter jokes are very unprofessional. The general consensus is that this is not a good game.
Cave Johnson
Member
But why should we restrict the medium to what should be and what isn't? Gone Home is my GOTY in 2013 and you will find me one of the most ardent criticizers of "modern" game experiences to-date. I always look for the context within a game rather than set an arbitrary what-games-are checklist before I presume judgement of the game/IP.
Back on Topic:
I have always constantly point out that the RaD lack the focus, or should I say, deliberately ignoring the standards of how it would be compared against during their early reveals.
I've highlighted the fact that if they couldn't find anything to showcase to combat early criticisms in their next few reveals, than it would mean they truly have nothing of substance to show or they are saving the best aspects till release date. Time and time again, the writing on the wall is getting more pronounced and only until the reviews dropped in did it validate all the issues from years back. The delay, did NOTHING, to quell concerns and yet the game is getting massive hype despite its lackadaisical showing. Expectations went way worse when the LEAD developer is putting "gameplay" as a negative connotation... in the games industry. All of the pieces indicated this would be a catastrophic failure (review wise)
Some even defended the fact that the 3 month delay would make some drastic "changes" even though I debated that it would be impractical to make significant gameplay amendments in that period as it is usually the time period reserved for polish and bug checking.
I guess people have banked their past history as a solid foundation to earn their trust. But that doesn't mean you can turn a blind eye when reveals upon reveals and hands-on impressions from GAF to media alike is confirming what we have been suspicious from the very start. If this game fails sales-wise than it clearly dispels the myth that the "graphics" will win the majority audience.
Back on Topic:
I have always constantly point out that the RaD lack the focus, or should I say, deliberately ignoring the standards of how it would be compared against during their early reveals.
I've highlighted the fact that if they couldn't find anything to showcase to combat early criticisms in their next few reveals, than it would mean they truly have nothing of substance to show or they are saving the best aspects till release date. Time and time again, the writing on the wall is getting more pronounced and only until the reviews dropped in did it validate all the issues from years back. The delay, did NOTHING, to quell concerns and yet the game is getting massive hype despite its lackadaisical showing. Expectations went way worse when the LEAD developer is putting "gameplay" as a negative connotation... in the games industry. All of the pieces indicated this would be a catastrophic failure (review wise)
Some even defended the fact that the 3 month delay would make some drastic "changes" even though I debated that it would be impractical to make significant gameplay amendments in that period as it is usually the time period reserved for polish and bug checking.
I guess people have banked their past history as a solid foundation to earn their trust. But that doesn't mean you can turn a blind eye when reveals upon reveals and hands-on impressions from GAF to media alike is confirming what we have been suspicious from the very start. If this game fails sales-wise than it clearly dispels the myth that the "graphics" will win the majority audience.
So all the negative reviews are wrong? Wow, truly a conspiracy!
When I wrote ok in front of SH2 and TLOU, I meant ok I agree those are good. Your list is pretty good but at best, it's not better than saturday matinee cartoons. And it's still a handful of games, 90% of the rest is not even worth mentioning. I'm just saying there's a huge room for improvement, and in The Order's case, who tried to make story as its main focus, failed by a large margin.
Well looks like it's scoring exactly as it's been showing. When we first saw it in trailer form a lot of us were saying 'wow' because it looked gorgeous. Then we actually saw the gameplay a while later and the feeling seemed to be 'looks pretty mediocre'. It seems like that is exactly what it is.
It will sell millions.
It will sell millions.
qa_engineer
Member
I came in here to share my impressions so that others who do care about opinions of others outside of the "gaming journalists" can get all sides of the story. Not to read reviews. Enjoy.
RipperGrim
Member
I don't think you have a bar at all. Saying something like The expendables and Sharknado's writing is equivalent to gaming's best writing makes me think what you say is ridiculous and you just have something against writing in games in general for some strange reason.
What are you trying to imply?
I'm shocked that play times can vary so much if there's truly nothing to explore, and the game does indeed hold your hand through every sequence. I mean, unless the timer keeps adding up if you die over and over, I guess the bad players might have higher times, but for the average-good players shouldn't they all be relatively close? (assuming you don't just leave your character standing there while you go to work for the day)
Could have fooled me.
Resident_UA
Member
MegaSackman
Member
I feel that most negative comments comes from a place where people sense that taking control out of them is like a threat to the video game industry and could mean the end of the medium as we know it. From there comes the rest of the complains which I don't think are as bad as people say, ej: Story, gameplay, lenght.
There are stories praised as good that are pretty terrible, there are games with poor gameplay and AI but get a free pass, there are games with the same lenght but longer cinematics or just the same but people love them.
It's just a particular case, not a conspiracy or anything, I think people are just scared.
There are stories praised as good that are pretty terrible, there are games with poor gameplay and AI but get a free pass, there are games with the same lenght but longer cinematics or just the same but people love them.
It's just a particular case, not a conspiracy or anything, I think people are just scared.
User 73706
Banned
It is the strongest shape in nature!
indigo-cyclops
Member
Just another game where I will have to play it and make up my own mind. What I've seen is enticing enough to warrant a purchase, and it seems some reviewers want to build some sort of narrative. That narrative is, since this game was first "demoed" that it would be severely lacking in gameplay and good ideas.
This is a review thread. Not a "I don't pay attention to reviews, here's impressions that won't help you at all because I only played 2 chapters" thread.
qa_engineer
Member
Pretty sure the circle is. But what do I know.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You do understand that there are better action movies then Sharknado right? Because I never said every games story was as bad as Sharknado. There are action movies that are genuinely good movies, but they still aren't going to be the ones getting any awards or recognition in the writing category. I think Die Hard is an awesome movie, but if Die Hard had the best writing in the history of movies, movies would have a history of pretty bad writing.
NoMoChokeSJ
Banned
Movies are also filmed and condensed through editing to keep pacing and cohesion over a relatively short period of time. Games of any substantial length obviously have a much larger challenge of both length and interactivity. A lot of superbly written films would make horrible games because their story doesn't really accomodating lengthy interactivity. Just look at the varying quality of the LOTR games.
Even though it sounds like The Order struggles with finding a good happy medium with this formula, hopefully RAD establishes a good evough footprint to improve on this in the next game. Everybody saw the leaps that Uncharted made throughout the series, nothing says The Order won't follow suit.
NowhereFaded
Member
The circle is. To come full cirlce. As below, so above, and beyond.
Did you finish it?
Just wondering
Going to pick up the game for rent in a bit. =)
I don't know if I agree with the reviewers or not. However, I can see why these scores are the way they are based off my own playtime with the game prior to launch. I think they are entitled to their opinion and this "fuck them! What do they know!" attitude is pretty amusing when its something people got themselves hyped about.
I also have a personal interest in this as I run a video game store and, like many stores like it, I could lose a great many sales here. In fact, I've already lost 4 CE/LE preorders since yesterday. =/
RipperGrim
Member
Yes it is. By far. 90% of movies also don't warrant mentioning
I can't really comment on The Order but from what I've seen and heard it's got shitty pacing and is probably not worth defending it's writing but slapping all games as badly written is because of this games failures isn't fair to the medium. My point here is that the writing in games is most certainly not as bad as people seem to think and it's not just me that thinks this, go to any count down for best moments in gaming and see what has been created.
I can agree that the best movies can beat the best written games but what I won't agree on is the best writing in games being only B movie worthy.
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