These threads always give me the feeling that many never read reviews. In the movie biz they tend to be much harsher.
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The Order 1886 Review Thread
- Thread starter The Sarcastic Dude
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These threads always give me the feeling that many never read reviews. In the movie biz they tend to be much harsher.
That games have at best the same level of writing as cartoons. Not surprising when you consider the overall target audience. I'm not saying it's bad or good, I enjoy cartoons.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This is the problem of the developers. I'm aware that it's much harder to write a character for a game that's going to be 8-15 hours long then it is to write a character for a 2 hour movie. But if someone is making that effort, and the effort isn't done well, the effort deserves to be criticized.
They don't get a pass because they took on a tough challenge and didn't succeed. Reviews and opinions shouldn't be based by how hard some one tried, they should be based by the final product. I'm sure there are plenty of bad movies that the writers tried really hard to make interesting, but if the end result is a bad movie, they don't get points for effort.
qa_engineer
Member
So because I played two chapters my impressions don't matter? I can't voice my opinion in this thread? I didn't come in here to contest any of reviews, I simply stated I dont care for them. Anyway my impressions are there for those who care. Thanks for your input I suppose. I'll go back to playing the game now.
Edit: is there a threshold of time spent on a game before ones impressions matter? I would like to know.
This doesn't mesh with the various reviews I've read, or that are highlighted in the OP. The issue was a story which doesn't take advantage of it's own premise, or offer a conclusion to its setup, with gameplay and pacing which aren't particularly fun or engrossing, and game design choices which have been known to be frustrating throughout the modern history of the medium. I've enjoyed plenty of games that run afoul of those expectations, but I also don't try to dismiss reactions from others by projecting what I think they must really be saying.
I mean, I do agree based just on outside conversations that some people are annoyed at the lack of interactivity through much of the game, but the underlying issues were still regarding fun, content, story and pacing. By the only standards we have for discussion games critically, it's not a good one. It's not that people are "just scared."
NoMoChokeSJ
Banned
I don't disagree with you at all. I think that if the criticisms are valid they should be pointed out during the review process. I was just pointing out the struggles of writing for an interact medium verses just a visual one.
Personnally, I think that performances can make up huge ground in video games as a way to compensate for a shakey story. The shift to professional actors is a positive one that definitely helps. The Order doesn't sound like it's story weaknesses are so much character or performance, as much as it is pacing. Like I said, hopefully this is something RAD can build off of.
Would you give a shit about a review written by someone based off two chapters of a game? The problem isn't that you're giving your initial impressions, it's that you're giving them in a REVIEWS THREAD in an attempt to denigrate the actual reviews that have already been posted and linked to.
I never said that. Just that the vast majority of game stories are B movie level. The best gaming has to offer is above B level of course, but it's rare.
Messofanego
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_y7f-yFFc8
As always, Videogamer have the most entertaining review!
As always, Videogamer have the most entertaining review!
fucking lmao, of course. that's why there was a huge firestorm on the internet from all the snarky, mean-spirited reviews of Deuce Bigalow 2. Man, when IGN described it as "Like a real gigolo, it screws you and takes your money." I'm sure that created an avalanche of controversy. Such unearned snark!
oh wait, no it didn't. everyone laughed at the bad film and the snarky reviews. Everyone loves reviews that shits all over a bad movie. People are earning thousands of dollars a month to shit on bad movies. But nice theory, it reads a lot like why Squaresoft shot themselves in the foot.
No, there's no threshold, but you can't really dismiss other people's opinion of a game they've completed because you've only played a fraction of it. Once you finish, you can say whether you agree with them or not.
Coming into a review thread and saying "I don't value reviews" is like going into a tech-analysis thread any saying "tech performance doesn't matter." Going on to then give your reaction in those terms for either setting makes the reaction seem even less reasonable.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I agree, and I think it's a good showing of how video game plots are like action movies. Action movies aren't built on a foundation of thoughtful introspection and deep character development. It's a bad ass guy being given simple motivations so he can go from one place to another and wreck shit and complete his goal.
People didn't love Taken because of the thoughtful fatherly performance given by Nissen. They love Taken because he was a total badass and wrecked some shit. If we didn't believe his character could do all he did, the movie falls apart, but at the same time, his character isn't very deep.
Was the plot of Taken perfectly serviceable, and even interesting at times? Sure. But the characters in the movie generally aren't developed past basic motivations in order to move the plot from one scene to the other. Which is how I feel about most protagonists in the games I play.
MegaSackman
Member
Right, I'm not trying to take it to an extreme, I just feel that there were several (not many) visceral reactions and reviews that seemed... weird, like desperate, and often I read "jesus let me play!! death to these types of games death!!"
Even though, what you say (based on reviews) is true in a form in which people really had those problems but there are several positive reviews that didn't, I don't think for a fact that this game has terrible writting, gameplay, design or whatever. I'm sure that there are real problems otherwise the positive reviews would be just 10s. It sucks that I have to wait a couple of hours to play it to know if whatever I'm saying makes sense. -_-
Resident_UA
Member
I'm going to rent it too....
But I don't see how your opinion is any better than that guy's. He doesn't see why reviewers hated the game so much and you do see. Neither one of you finished the game
Pretty much same here. Just picked it up. Willing to give it a go, and I think this universe warrants a sequel, so I want the game to do well.
I absolutely saw some of those reactions, so I'm with you there.
qa_engineer
Member
Again, the impressions are there for people who do care about reviews or what other gaffers are saying about the game thus far. If there is a better venue for that please let me know. Else I will continue to post here . I'm not here to discuss reviews or downplay reviews I just wanted to give impressions for those who do care. I feel justified in posting what i did and you and others can disagree.
RedAssedApe
Banned
MC is still above Destiny DLC
What makes the people doing the reviews matter? Their salary?
Why are they relevant? Should they be relevant is the better question. Why should that guys review be disregarded, he played 2 more chapters of the game than you did
MC is still above Destiny DLC
If you like Destiny, I'm sure you'll like this game too.
Kacho
Gold Member
LMAO pretty good.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
For your first question, those people are in theory, paid professionals who are supposed to know more about video games then your average forum goer. Though I guess that really depends on what reviewer you're looking at when it comes to video game journalism.
As for your second question, I wouldn't care about the opinion of a person who saw the first 15 minutes of a movie and told me it was great. If you were to ask me about Iron Man 3 after the first hour I'd say it was pretty good, but there is a turning point in IM3 that turned it into what I consider a bad movie. Would you be comfortable if all of the view game reviewers only played half way through the games before writing their review on it?
Yeah I think impressions off a few chapters shouldn't be posted here. You can mislead ppl with an opinion that might change once you finish the game. Just look at Rapiers impressions for instance , he was all high on the game but then seems to really feel disappointed afterwards.
qa_engineer
Member
Mislead people even though I clearly state that I'm only two hours into the game? Alright I will post my unhelpful impressions elsewhere.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Just picked it up from the local video store. Im gonna see why this game is getting all the hate.
qa_engineer
Member
Just don't post your impressions here. People who haven't played the game yet might take offense.
That article presents a pretty reasonable point of view.
15 seconds in and I'm already dying from the Elvis Costello reference.
Messofanego
Banned
And thank heavens for that, was about time critics and gamers expected more than just looks.
macfoshizzle
Member
it's interesting to me to see a lot of people here that really want to like this game for whatever reason is trying to justify more to themselves that this game is good despite the similar lack luster reviews. if you think you'll have fun and this game is worth $60, then just buy the damn thing.
so unprofessional
Short and to the point.
NullPointer
Member
Subtle but important distinction there.
My review, so far I am on Chapter 10:
THE GREAT:
Graphics: Wow this is the best looking game I have ever seen. Everything looks brilliant from the sun shining of walls and tiled floors to the how real walls and buildings look. Even little details like when you pick up lit smoking pipe the smoke archs and switches where it blows. The effects from weapons fire and hits are also great. I will stop there as I could go on for ages, I just can not get over how good looking this game is.
ATMOSPHERE: The atmosphere is superb. It enhances the scenes and makes you feel you are really in 1886.
THE GOOD:
VOICE ACTING: The voice acting is great, every voice fits perfectly to each character in my opinion. I can't fault it.
WEAPONS: I see no problem with the weapons so far. I know there was a few people not happy as you can't upgrade them, for me they are fine as they are.
THE OK:
Story: The story is ok so far, nothing good but also nothing bad. The major thing that effects the story is the huge cut scenes. There are so many that interrupt you playing that you get bored listening to it and just want to play the game.
QTE's:
Some are good and some are really bad. I won't spoil it for people that haven't played the game tho. I have no real problem with the QTE's.
CAMERA:
The camera is good mostly but now and again messes up (especially when turning around).
THE BAD:
CUTSCENES:
Damn, there are so many you just want to skip it. I get the game is ment to be cinematic but can I at least play the game as well? Some go on for ages then you play for like a minute and another one pops up. As I said above it messes up the story because there are so many and a lot are so long you get bored with watching them.
AI:
The AI is bad. First thing I noticed is if a random character walks past you instead of brushing past you or moving out the way they carry on walking pushing you backwards.
companion AI : When exploring the very little you can your companion either just stands there or walks off. In one scene my companion kept walking into a shut door. They get stuck on random objects and are nearly useless when you are fighting.
Enemy AI: From what I have seen they never atrack your companion and just go for you. They also aren't very good at finding cover, some even try to hide on the wrong side of walls.
Other random character AI: Dumbiest AI in the game, they never face you when talking. One guy who was explaining something to me was looking at a wall, it didn't even notice I had walked past him. 99% of the time they don't even react to you being there, others just stand there and don't even move. It's like they are just part of the scenery which shouldn't be the case.
RANDOM HALF WALLS/FENCES:
I know it is ment to be kind of a corridor shooter but seriously I have never seen so many random placed half walls.
THE HAND HOLDING:
The only one way to go gets boring after a while. It's like you are in a maze and the game is just leading you by the hand to the end.
ENEMIES:
Far too few different enemy types. They nearly all look the same which is a let down.
Conclusion so far:
This is a good game idea stuck with bad gameplay and design with way over the top cutscenes. For me at this point I will give it a 6/10.
Be nice to me GAF this is my first go at a review.
THE GREAT:
Graphics: Wow this is the best looking game I have ever seen. Everything looks brilliant from the sun shining of walls and tiled floors to the how real walls and buildings look. Even little details like when you pick up lit smoking pipe the smoke archs and switches where it blows. The effects from weapons fire and hits are also great. I will stop there as I could go on for ages, I just can not get over how good looking this game is.
ATMOSPHERE: The atmosphere is superb. It enhances the scenes and makes you feel you are really in 1886.
THE GOOD:
VOICE ACTING: The voice acting is great, every voice fits perfectly to each character in my opinion. I can't fault it.
WEAPONS: I see no problem with the weapons so far. I know there was a few people not happy as you can't upgrade them, for me they are fine as they are.
THE OK:
Story: The story is ok so far, nothing good but also nothing bad. The major thing that effects the story is the huge cut scenes. There are so many that interrupt you playing that you get bored listening to it and just want to play the game.
QTE's:
Some are good and some are really bad. I won't spoil it for people that haven't played the game tho. I have no real problem with the QTE's.
CAMERA:
The camera is good mostly but now and again messes up (especially when turning around).
THE BAD:
CUTSCENES:
Damn, there are so many you just want to skip it. I get the game is ment to be cinematic but can I at least play the game as well? Some go on for ages then you play for like a minute and another one pops up. As I said above it messes up the story because there are so many and a lot are so long you get bored with watching them.
AI:
The AI is bad. First thing I noticed is if a random character walks past you instead of brushing past you or moving out the way they carry on walking pushing you backwards.
companion AI : When exploring the very little you can your companion either just stands there or walks off. In one scene my companion kept walking into a shut door. They get stuck on random objects and are nearly useless when you are fighting.
Enemy AI: From what I have seen they never atrack your companion and just go for you. They also aren't very good at finding cover, some even try to hide on the wrong side of walls.
Other random character AI: Dumbiest AI in the game, they never face you when talking. One guy who was explaining something to me was looking at a wall, it didn't even notice I had walked past him. 99% of the time they don't even react to you being there, others just stand there and don't even move. It's like they are just part of the scenery which shouldn't be the case.
RANDOM HALF WALLS/FENCES:
I know it is ment to be kind of a corridor shooter but seriously I have never seen so many random placed half walls.
THE HAND HOLDING:
The only one way to go gets boring after a while. It's like you are in a maze and the game is just leading you by the hand to the end.
ENEMIES:
Far too few different enemy types. They nearly all look the same which is a let down.
Conclusion so far:
This is a good game idea stuck with bad gameplay and design with way over the top cutscenes. For me at this point I will give it a 6/10.
Be nice to me GAF this is my first go at a review.
The OT thread is for people playing the games who want to give impressions. As I mentioned last night, this thread is for the discussion of reviews.
At first I was afraid the write-up was getting a little too deep into meta commentary. I ended up liking the points. Contextualizing the reaction seems like a pretty important part, seeing some responses to the negativity across so many reviews. Short and to the point, too.
Well, the fundamental reason we ought to take professional reviewers more seriously than the people on GAF who say 'just played the first 2 chapters, loving it so far, the reviews are all wrong!' is that;
1) Reviewing things because it's your job, and
2) giving impressions on something that you've a) probably been excited (hyped) about for a long period of time and which b) you've just spent quite a lot of money on
put you in very, very different relationships with the thing you're judging.
That's the heart, basically, of why paid reviewers are more 'trustworthy'; it's because (in theory) they have fewer reasons to be biased in favour of the game.
I think a lot of negative comments are a reaction to the overwhelming defense this game is getting despite it appearing to be 'okay' at best. In my opinion, this game only has a strong defense force because it's an exclusive title that's been heavily pushed and marketed for ages. The game has had a negative pre-release reception because it has always looked pretty bad (gameplay-wise, not aesthetically). It's failed to impress at every showing and yet the hype train kept on chugging because it's an exclusive. Now it's out an is getting a negative reception and people who've invested a bunch of time and energy into anticipating it because the Sony marketing team told them they should are insisting that there's bias in the reviews and that the reviewers are being bullies. You never see this kind of stuff for multiplatform games.
Granted, a lot of people revelling in the game's reception happen to be doing so because they're stupidly loyal to the other side. I may just be projecting my opinion on all the other negative nancies, but in my opinion it's fun to watch people freaking out over this game's poor reception simply because it's an exclusive for their platform of choice.
Messofanego
Banned
This is the kind of stuff I love to see in videos. I think Karak (AngryCentaurGaming) is going to do a video about the AI.
Nintenyearold
Neo Member
hahaha this was spectacular
macfoshizzle
Member
the giantbomb quicklook pretty much summed it up for me.
Chilled_Eskim01
Member
Great read. I totally agree with the author's sentiments on this game. It's not bad, but it just isn't good. Highly suggest some folks check this article out for any wondering why folks may not be giving the game as high a rating as you'd have thought.
Good read.
It folds back a bit into what I was talking about earlier about valuing fresh characters & story over well-worn industry staples.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
How can one differentiate between someone that paid for the game actually liking it, or someone trying to convince themselves that they like it in order (1886) to justify their purchase? :O
Well if they'd treated that as a chance to make a puzzle segment fit in with the rest of the scene, I'd have been ecstatic
For lack of a better comparison, imagine the sort of hidden object gameplay in Captain Toad; working that into an object you encounter in a scene would be an interesting approach. Merely tilting a pistol so your character can see a Triangle prompt to check if there are bullets in the revolver just feels like stalling the scene, rather than adding something to it. Some were handled better than others, but barely. Virtue's Last Reward and 9-9-9 each had similar object/puzzle mechanics, and I think those could have benefited the overall sense of player agency and ability contributing to what happens in the story here.
Always-honest
Banned
They can sell it a day later for 10$ less. That's nothing for +/- 7 hours of "entertainment".
But yeah... Hard to tell.
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