You're making a point to personally target someone for asking a question. Acting like message board conversations are private, exclusive affairs after someone responds to you having made a slightly incendiary comment is just petty form.
The point - Why The Xbox Is Losing
- Thread starter le.phat
- Start date
You're making a point to personally target someone for asking a question. Acting like message board conversations are private, exclusive affairs after someone responds to you having made a slightly incendiary comment is just petty form.
They had an idea, a vison (a vision they never tried to hide by the way) but the consumers didn't want that vision and now Microsoft are changing thier policies to try and give consumers what they want.
I don't see whats wrong with that, in fact its good business sense by Microsoft. I'd much rather they changed their policies instead of being stubborn and stuck with the old policies.
Beer Monkey
Member
When Sony told their customers to get a second job, and told them that rumble was a last-gen feature, did they know what their customers wanted?
MIcrosoft 2013 drifted out of touch with their customers like Sony 2006 did. They are just faster to respond.
Yep, MS has shifted their focus away from games:
la flama blanca
Banned
Absolutely not, Sony was dumb as shit too. They've mostly cleaned their act up and in comparison to how Microsoft has handled this next gen so far, they look like fucking Gods.
Show me this list
closer to launch and tell me if you think it stays accurate
edit: BOTH LISTS even
CassidyIzABeast
Member
They're making changes in response to their missteps before the console comes out. How's that a bad thing?
I agree with almost everything.
And yeah, Microsoft didn't care for consumers. They had their "vision of future", but caved in when they saw that that future won't bring as much money as they expected. But I don't think they will remove Kinect from the pack. They've probably invested too much in it by now.
And yeah, Microsoft didn't care for consumers. They had their "vision of future", but caved in when they saw that that future won't bring as much money as they expected. But I don't think they will remove Kinect from the pack. They've probably invested too much in it by now.
Simply Sami
Member
Like someone said, they won't win but they won't lose either.
With Nintendo fucking up. There is a lot of consoles to sell to the casuals. Nintendo will be the biggest losers this gen.
With Nintendo fucking up. There is a lot of consoles to sell to the casuals. Nintendo will be the biggest losers this gen.
Beer Monkey
Member
Sony slowly cleaning up their shit over a seven year period = FUCKING GODLY.
Microsoft fixing bad policies in a month instead of waiting a whole generation to do it = MERE MORTALS.
I would argue a lot of people who watch Jimmy Fallon and CNN, saw "no used games" and "always online", most of those people probably haven't heard those things are no longer the case, or, as people are want to do, heard but don't trust or believe. So while a kid might ask for an XB1 for Christmas, uninformed parents (my experience: most of them) are going to pick up the PS4 instead because, on top of price, the fact that they can send their kid into Gamestop with $30 and buy a used game instead of having to pay $60 for a new one.
As for features, I don't think we know enough about either console to differentiate feature sets at this point, and while one console has a history of costing $60/year to play online, access Netflix, etc, one has the history of charging $50/year to give people free games every month.
Free games are a pretty big feature.
Oh list wars how I've missed you so much. Why not add Nintendo on that list as well? Do you seriously think those are the only games both Sony and Microsoft have in their stable? It's not about quantity or even quality. It's about a platform holders messaging and positioning to the development community at large that displays their moves in the coming years.
la flama blanca
Banned
Not a bad thing at all, just that I don't know where this odd appreciation as if Microsoft had fans in mind from the get-go comes from(from some people). While Microsoft is busy rectifying what they've managed to ruin, I really haven't seen that many new long term goals for the system.
Do me a favor and explain to me how those two statements even make sense together and also please clearly outline what "cleaning up their shit over a seven year period" means.
No need to be angrily defensive about your brand loyalty bro.
GravityMan
Member
A sensible take by GameSpot.
The hardcore people are usually the ones who initiate the word of mouth spreading of a quality and/or interesting product, be it a console, a game, a smartphone, a movie, etc. They are the ones who are usually tuning in when something is unveiled during a live conference. They are usually the early buyers. The softcore usually pays less attention up-front, and learns more about things via the grapevine - often their hardcore friends.
The hardcore people are usually the ones who initiate the word of mouth spreading of a quality and/or interesting product, be it a console, a game, a smartphone, a movie, etc. They are the ones who are usually tuning in when something is unveiled during a live conference. They are usually the early buyers. The softcore usually pays less attention up-front, and learns more about things via the grapevine - often their hardcore friends.
ChosenPredator
Banned
yeah Microsoft pretty much fix that shit quick time some people won't let go that they've clean up their act that quick or just don't trust them now but I am sure once the console is out and word of mouth starts popping off things will be more balanced again not so one sided as it seems on here.
So we all seemed to be debating on whether or not the average consumer/kid/mom/gamer has kept up E3 events and the cluster-f*** that happened afterwards.
Someone needs to survey a bunch of random people and see what they know, what they THINK they know, and which systems they are interested in, and why.
robertsan21
Member
This gamescom is going to be sweet. There will be tears and crying from Xbots while there will be cheers and happiness from Sonyboys. So many new PS4 games will be shown and its going to be awesome.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
You're the one that brought fans into it though. Beer Monkey said consumers and market not fans and market.
gaming_noob
Member
Are you someone who feeds on the misery of others?
la flama blanca
Banned
That's how interpreted it, I apologize if I missed the mark.
something fishy
Member
if they drop the kinect and the price, is it really?
these things don't launch for several months yet.
There won't be "so many", because Sony is playing a much more strategic game. Microsoft dealt most of their cards, because they had no choice. The negative press and bad PR was suffocating them, so they fought back the only way they could, prove they have the games and change policies to try and get closer to the PS4. Problem is, they don't have nearly as many surprises left whilst Sony has an entire arsenal. More first party exclusives in the works than Microsoft.
Sony will drip feed us the good stuff, as to not take too much of the sting from current or more closer to release titles. My guess is two new exclusive announcements at Gamescom if that, but you never know. Microsoft showing off more might compel Sony too as well, but they need to also make the immediate launch games seem more appealing, that is Killzone SF, DriveClub and Knack.
15 vs. 20
that's it, no more conversation those are the facts, lets not discuss anything else, there's no need.
15 vs. 20
If you want to talk about number of games then it's 15 vs. 20.
If you would like to say that you feel the xb1 games are superior, fair enough thats how opinions work, but I'm afraid the quantity aspect falls to sony.
SwiftDeath
Member
Sony losing billions trying to bring down the cost of a blu-ray drive laden console with a cell technology over 7 years is perfectly understandable
MS flipping some switches after seeing the pre-order numbers are perfectly understandable
To think that as a company one experience isn't going to affect your company vision and how you value your customers/consumers differently than another is entirely mad
Maybe MS won't take the core for granted, maybe they have deflated their hubris somewhat
I don't know that. All evidence still points to the concessions being hard points both in a business sense and a company culture sense
We'll see what happens and it will certainly be interesting regardless of outcome but to think that MS and Sony should be viewed on the same level consumer advocacy wise is silly
Impeccable
Member
I don't know why but the list wars for the exclusives made me laugh.
rakkadakka
Member
That drip is going to have to be pretty quick, release in < 3 months.
The only thing left for MS todo is lower the price. If they came down by say $50 (keeping Kinect because that gives a unique selling point) I think they could really do some damage with hardcore gamers.
Chief Icaroc
Banned
I want to slow clap this. Bravo. I think that this is the main reason why I personally thought that Sony had to be following suit and locking up used games. (we know how that turned out.... mmmm tasty crow. delicious.)
Blue_Barry
Member
Because it indicates they don't have a solid grip, on what the marketplace wants.
Roberstan is roberstan. One must understand the OT to understand Robertsan.
Garrett 2U
Member
I disagree.
He groups gamers into three categories: Casual, Softcore, Hardcore.
Okay, I understand where he is going with that.
The first "WTF" moment I had was him saying the Casual market is dominated by Nintendo. Yeah, last generation. The Wii U has an insignificant marketshare and growth rate.
If anything, Nintendo's failure has set up Microsoft perfectly to take the "casual" crowd with their Kinect and TV/Media integration.
Next is Softcore/Hardcore...
There is certainly the softcore majority of gamers who buy the shooters and sports.
And there is the hardcore minority of gamers who might buy those games but also dozens of others.
What I don't agree with is that the softcore "follows in the wake" of the hardcore.
If that were so then they wouldn't buy Call of Duty and Madden yearly, as the hardcore group consistently belittles those franchises.
Microsoft is set up perfectly to take the softcore group with their emphasis on COD/BF4, exclusivity of TitanFall, Halo and Minecraft, and Twitch integration.
I would agree that the PS4 is more attractive right now to hardcore gamers. It has better hardware numbers, more announced indie games, and the Sony exclusives.
But the Xbox One is more attractive to the softcore group of gamers right now.
Definitely early adopters have a huge role in spreading word about the consoles.
But both PS4 and Xbox One are going to sell out at launch.
I'd argue that the softcore group is more important to sell to at launch, because that group is the one that is going to be persuaded more by what console their friends own and which has the better COD/sports community.
The hardcore group is going to buy whatever console(s) have the games they want. They are less important to sell to at launch.
The biggest obstacle Xbox One is going to face when trying to sell to softcore gamers is the price tag. The TitanFall exclusivity does a bit to dampen the $100 difference, but they need more. Or they need to take a hit and drop the price of the console.
He groups gamers into three categories: Casual, Softcore, Hardcore.
Okay, I understand where he is going with that.
The first "WTF" moment I had was him saying the Casual market is dominated by Nintendo. Yeah, last generation. The Wii U has an insignificant marketshare and growth rate.
If anything, Nintendo's failure has set up Microsoft perfectly to take the "casual" crowd with their Kinect and TV/Media integration.
Next is Softcore/Hardcore...
There is certainly the softcore majority of gamers who buy the shooters and sports.
And there is the hardcore minority of gamers who might buy those games but also dozens of others.
What I don't agree with is that the softcore "follows in the wake" of the hardcore.
If that were so then they wouldn't buy Call of Duty and Madden yearly, as the hardcore group consistently belittles those franchises.
Microsoft is set up perfectly to take the softcore group with their emphasis on COD/BF4, exclusivity of TitanFall, Halo and Minecraft, and Twitch integration.
I would agree that the PS4 is more attractive right now to hardcore gamers. It has better hardware numbers, more announced indie games, and the Sony exclusives.
But the Xbox One is more attractive to the softcore group of gamers right now.
Definitely early adopters have a huge role in spreading word about the consoles.
But both PS4 and Xbox One are going to sell out at launch.
I'd argue that the softcore group is more important to sell to at launch, because that group is the one that is going to be persuaded more by what console their friends own and which has the better COD/sports community.
The hardcore group is going to buy whatever console(s) have the games they want. They are less important to sell to at launch.
The biggest obstacle Xbox One is going to face when trying to sell to softcore gamers is the price tag. The TitanFall exclusivity does a bit to dampen the $100 difference, but they need more. Or they need to take a hit and drop the price of the console.
I honestly don't know how you haven't been banned yet, every single post i see of yours has 'Xbots' in it and your posts sound like they are written by a 6 year old and slightly challenged child.
Based on that video, I now think both consoles will fail. Just about everyone was "Meh, whatever"
This is the current first half of the launch window line up. It's pretty solid as is. They can announce fall 2014 stuff as the months go on, but I would agree they should probably announce a few more titles just to keep the buzz going.
Going to give Microsoft a year or so and see how things play out. It's great that they made a bunch of changes due to low pre-order numbers and to compete with Sony policies, but I'm still not convinced they're changing those policies for the long haul.
As someone who has worked directly with MS for almost 20 years as a systems admin in an MS based shop, they have made changes before to adjust consumer expectations and then changed back once they had enough people hooked into their system. I'm not saying they'll do that with the Xbox One, but I think to ignore their past indiscretions, just like any major corporation, is to ignore future implications.
As someone who has worked directly with MS for almost 20 years as a systems admin in an MS based shop, they have made changes before to adjust consumer expectations and then changed back once they had enough people hooked into their system. I'm not saying they'll do that with the Xbox One, but I think to ignore their past indiscretions, just like any major corporation, is to ignore future implications.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
The market place wants a new Xbox, they just don't want to log in every 24 hours or have to plug in Kinect if they don't want to. Now they don't. So again, how is that a bad thing?
I see this complaint a lot and I don't get it. Horrible policies are not the kind of different and interesting you want.
Beer Monkey
Member
You missed it by a mile. You took what I was saying out of context and that rippled through most of a page of the thread.
Apology accepted.
la flama blanca
Banned
Cool, can you address the questions I posted for you above?
uncledonnie
Banned
It's not so much this but the people that come with the "LOL backpedaling!" that I don't understand. We complain about the policies and then we mock/complain when they change them.
Beer Monkey
Member
Do you understand that the list was a response to a post where somebody said Microsoft had shifted their focus away from games? It's not a fucking MS versus Sony pissing contest, it's just showing that they haven't shifted their focus away from games. If MS isn't focusing on games, neither is the whole fucking industry.
I think you're missing the elephant here. The market does not want to be forced to pay an extra $100+ for a camera they don't want.
They have recieved so much bad press and consumer backlash over their orig policies that i doubt many of those policies will be in the NEXT Xbox nevermind going back to them with Xbox One.
There is 0 chance of them doing another reversal and bringing back DRM etc with Xbox one and you can quote me on that.
What's the incendiary comment exactly? That kids playing online like to throw around racial slurs? Because that has been my experience. Children online with anonymity act like children. And a comment that says most kids will be playing on XBO conforms with my desire to have children off my games. Why are children even playing mature rated games in the first place?
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think that's true. I think most hard core gamers are playing some of those types of games as well. The difference is they buy/play those blockbuster type games AND buy and play a ton of other type of stuff.
I think the only people who really hate on those types of games are the hardcore gamers who mainly play Japanese developed games, or PC gamers who just belittle any console shooter.
Most of the hardcore gamers I know play the CoD, Halo, Madden and so on of the world, but also a bunch of other stuff. The softcore types I know just buy a few of those blockbuster games a year and that's it.
Where softcore get swayed is deciding which system to play CoD etc. on based on what they're friends are playing--particularly the early adopters. i.e., I ended up going with a 360 first last gen as a couple friends who game more than I do had one, and I loved playing Gears and some other games at their places.
Let's not forget that low sales figures at launch doesn't dictate how a console will do over it's lifetime.
Remember the PS3 Launch? There were consoles still on the shelves at Christmas after the launch.....which in my memory has been pretty darned rare after a Holiday launch.
Sony managed to take things and turn them around even after the xbox 360 had a year head start.
If the XBOne has a lack luster launch M$ will keep tweaking things and going after game exclusives and it'll eventually reach some sort of parity.
Remember...Hardcore gamers should want the XBOne and PS4 to be as close as possible in order to keep both companies from being complacent. Each company will keep trying to out pace the other and we'll be the ones to benefit.
Remember the PS3 Launch? There were consoles still on the shelves at Christmas after the launch.....which in my memory has been pretty darned rare after a Holiday launch.
Sony managed to take things and turn them around even after the xbox 360 had a year head start.
If the XBOne has a lack luster launch M$ will keep tweaking things and going after game exclusives and it'll eventually reach some sort of parity.
Remember...Hardcore gamers should want the XBOne and PS4 to be as close as possible in order to keep both companies from being complacent. Each company will keep trying to out pace the other and we'll be the ones to benefit.
gaming_noob
Member
And on top of that, an underpowered machine that's launching exactly at the same time as its competition... The Xbox brand has always been synonymous with power (arguably even during current gen) so this is the biggest blunder on their part IMO.
Garrett 2U
Member
Yeah I agree, hardcore plays those games too, hence why I said "And there is the hardcore minority of gamers who might buy those games but also dozens of others."
I'm disagreeing with the journalist's opinion that softcore follows in the steps of hardcore.
I think that, if anything, they follow in the footsteps of other softcore gamers and what is familiar.
My point is that selling your system to what he calls the "softcore" is more important than really getting the hardcore gamers behind you.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Totally.
I don't want the X1 to fail. I want Kinect to fail, not get used in regular games and get moved back to being an optional accessory for people who want to play dance/fitness/party games.
I hate motion control stuff and don't want to see packed in motion control accessories become the norm or for gesture stuff to start getting shoehorned into regular games (like waggle and pointer stuff on the Wii) due to everyone having the accessories.
I think the problem MS faces is that they've never faced Sony like this. This is Sony poised to kill both SEGA and Nintendo with Playstation 1 level of Sony gaming division greatness. Clear messaging, clear direction, dominant specs, first party strength, ease of development, lots of hardware stock, getting more of the quirky smaller titles on board, etc.
Microsoft can tweak their policies all they want. There are clear disadvantages that they will have through the entire generation. More difficult to develop on (and weaker) hardware (though still super easy compared to this gen), more expensive package (bundled Kinect will keep them from price parity), seemingly unwilling to cultivate their own studios and would rather buy and publish someone else's IP's.