I recognize you Boco!
The state of NeoGAF
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
I recognize you Boco!
Kacho
Member
Yeah, definitely going to be staying on GAF for gaming talk. Good luck to the folks joining that.
If an EU citizen asks for their account to be deleted isn't it covered by the 'right to be forgotten' law? It might not, I have no idea.
JimmyRustler
Member
With the difference that NeoGAF became like this over quite some time, whereas ResetERA seems to be jump started like this.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
Can I be a mod on reset era
You mean you don't recognize all the juniors who have had accounts since 2013 but only have 60 posts???
Did I say otherwise? I just think its funny to complain about all the stuff a new forum is attempting when they're posting on a very forum that was incredibly well known for all those things.
If you're still thinking that this exodus is a small minority, please take a look at the community sections. They are almost entirely just made up of people trying to jump ship. And those are the active users that keep people coming to the site. Those are the OGs that understood the culture and made GAF what it was. It might be a minority of the 200,000 users, but they're the ones that you'll end up missing the most if you want GAF.
The site will probably reinvent itself, but who knows what that reinvention will look like and how long it will take to blossom into something most people want to be a part of again.
It's really sad to be honest.
The site will probably reinvent itself, but who knows what that reinvention will look like and how long it will take to blossom into something most people want to be a part of again.
It's really sad to be honest.
Yeah I find it odd people are downplaying people leaving the site or acting like its a good thing. Every community thread I was a part of is either a graveyard of banned users or people asking where they can go now and how they can get there. We're talking over a dozen huge active community threads and they are all dead except for posters wondering how to jump ship.
Im hopeful that itll be able to bounce back but I guess well have to wait a while longer to really see the effects of this ban wave.
JimmyRustler
Member
NeoGAF has imo been living off it's reputation for quite some time now. Just like this old movie star who still gets all the attention despite not making a good movie for years (say Johnny Depp for instance). That's what kept this forum going despite the moderation. Now resetERA does not have this reputation. I really wonder how they will fare once the dust has settled. Because then people will still know what NeoGAF is. But will they know what resetERA is?
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Things look bleak. Activity has dropped off a cliff.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Forums are dead. Its going nowhere.
Pretty sure it is. Having your account deleted from sites is a right Europeans have and I see no reason why neogaf would be exempt from that law.
SmashN'Grab
Member
It's certainly ironic that the culture of outrage that was allowed to permeate much of NeoGAF has led to its apparent downfall. My initial read of the situation was that it was entirely overblown given the seriousness of the accusations, none of which individually necessitate a response like this.
Maybe the site can recover, maybe not. I'm leaning towards not, right now. For myself, I wonder if indeed it is worth saving...
It was good in many ways, the no-bullshit attitude kept it clean of racism and misogyny and all that horrible shit. However it probably could have done better to curb the witchhunting and sanctimony of a lot of the board's members. I still used it a lot, though. Because if the price of the former meant having the latter then I guess it was worth it, to me.
It's sad to see a community torn apart like this, and there's no doubt that it is being torn apart. This isn't a minor thing. But it has been years in the making. The conditions of the community were just right for such an emotional reaction, and those conditions had been cultivated down through the years. In many ways this was the next logical step for NeoGAF, if you'd been watching it closely for some time.
Maybe the site can recover, maybe not. I'm leaning towards not, right now. For myself, I wonder if indeed it is worth saving...
It was good in many ways, the no-bullshit attitude kept it clean of racism and misogyny and all that horrible shit. However it probably could have done better to curb the witchhunting and sanctimony of a lot of the board's members. I still used it a lot, though. Because if the price of the former meant having the latter then I guess it was worth it, to me.
It's sad to see a community torn apart like this, and there's no doubt that it is being torn apart. This isn't a minor thing. But it has been years in the making. The conditions of the community were just right for such an emotional reaction, and those conditions had been cultivated down through the years. In many ways this was the next logical step for NeoGAF, if you'd been watching it closely for some time.
Reputation may have been a part of it but the active communities, the insiders, the in depth discussion is what made this place famous. Guess who jumped ship? Nearly all those community members (don't believe me just scroll through some community OTs), a ton of insiders and other experts are gone (Durante is a mod at the new forum for example), and much of the discussion we're now seeing is already lacking or quiet and no I'm not talking about the suicide threads shitting things up.
Reputation was only a small part of what made this the biggest gaming forum on the web and to say otherwise is foolish. Reputation drew people here and the active boisterous community is what kept people.
My god in the interconnected year of 2017 a closely knit nerdy community is upset about their community splintering and withering? Why not just yell "NERDS!" while you're at it?
That's not a solution.
Don't hurt your voice yelling at that cloud, grandpa.
Online communities have tremendous value to many people. If you don't believe me then just take one look at the Mental Health OTC thread. It's 2017, online groups can have monumental influence.
This is pretty much what I'm talking about. The NeoGAF I love cares about its communities.
Make fun of it all you want, but the gaming forum and the communities are one in the same.
Sizemore24
Member
You look like a typical Bully and a Douchebag.
I'll fight you in the ring anytime fucking cunt.
Die in hell piece of garbage
I'll fight you in the ring anytime fucking cunt.
Die in hell piece of garbage
JimmyRustler
Member
Please... The times where Dennis Dyack, Cliffy and others have been posting here are long gone. That shit was what made this forum big. True, some of the insiders are gone. Others will come, always have. And the stuff that gets posted on resetERA will surely find it's way here as well. Now assuming news outlets still continue to reference to NeoGAF and not resetGAF, guess how fast the latter is doomed to die? Many of the account suicides will cry for their account soon. The smart ones just log off, wait out the storm and then will probably come back one day.
Haha again, why not just yell,"NERDS!" and be done with it.
Cause some of you guys are a few levels below nerds. Similar to how GG gives a bad name for gamers.
Tons of developers and insiders posted here all the time. The NPD was often full of people who worked in or around the business. Same for a lot of community or news threads where developers from a game would pop in to talk to people or answer what questions they were allowed to on a game they;re working on. Not only that but let's not try and play off that this site was viewed by the gaming press as an easy aggregation of gaming news while also posting here at times. The smart ones have gone or have been banned and we've even seen on twitter that developers and others in the field don't want to come back for fear of being associated with EviLore.
Says the guy who basically has nothing of value to add but "Nerds"
snausagesUK
Member
I mentioned that in some other thread, there was an MP just the other day who got in royal trouble for some horrible shit he said ten years ago. So BBC had an article up on how to 'deep clean' your web history.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41735619
I wonder though does it extend to 'anonymous' accounts on a forum like this. I think it should. My UK PSN a/c name is more or less the same as this. I've posted my PSN on sites which also have different usernames I've used over the years. Point being there's a crumb trail there for people to follow if they want.
Well said.
Com Truise
Member
Neogaf got a lot of traffic because the first page of the gaming forum is the best aggregate for gaming news there is. That's what people want, they didn't come here en masse to read CrossingEdens newest take on why random Japanese game is mysognistic trash or to take part in unapproachable community threads. And if the latter is supposed to be Recettear's selling point...well yeah.
Also, look at that list of Admins/Moderators fucking look at it. Let's not talk about the actual choices here but come the fuck on. For the small userbase you're going to start with you need like, two mods. NOT THIRTY. What is wrong with you people.
Also, look at that list of Admins/Moderators fucking look at it. Let's not talk about the actual choices here but come the fuck on. For the small userbase you're going to start with you need like, two mods. NOT THIRTY. What is wrong with you people.
The deletion of personal data should be a right. I'm not sure how it applies to boards outside the EU (I suppose it doesnt?)
See here for referance (Article 17 is the one you are looking for):
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...016.119.01.0001.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2016:119:FULL
The right to have board messages deleted was denied by court in Germany e.g. (2011 IIRC).
So this should not be up to debate.
Hope this helps.
The people that only want news and don't care about the community have all moved to Reddit long ago.
Yeah but look at the Gaming page right now. There hasn't really been many new news or threads in days. The people that made this a great news aggregate seem to be leaving, which is sad.
Kacho
Member
I mean, we're currently in the middle of a weird transition period. It's going to take some time for things to settle and normalize. There's no reason to think others can't fill the void there.
I get your point but you also have to recognize that it's a fairly slow news week apart from the NeoGAF PR clusterfuck. The real test will be this coming weekend and what the traffic for Mario, Wolf and Stranger Things looks like.
That being said, I do believe that we're at a critical juncture and we need a turnover in management. It wouldn't surprise me if EL is taking a serious look at his options right now.
The lack of crisis management here staggers me. Effective crisis management means performing a risk analysis, having a plan, communicating early and often when a crisis event hits, not covering anything up, seeking the buy-in from the opinion leaders through persuasion, and being honest and forthcoming.
Instead there was no risk analysis or a plan (or it would have been known that a significant risk was a scandal involving the sole owner), there was the cover up by nuking threads from orbit a week ago, there was no timely communication on Saturday, there has been no further updates from Evilore besides this one statement, and instead of a full effort to secure the buy-in from opinion leaders they're off forming a rival site or attempting to join it.
Instead there was no risk analysis or a plan (or it would have been known that a significant risk was a scandal involving the sole owner), there was the cover up by nuking threads from orbit a week ago, there was no timely communication on Saturday, there has been no further updates from Evilore besides this one statement, and instead of a full effort to secure the buy-in from opinion leaders they're off forming a rival site or attempting to join it.
Can you please point me the direction as well? I have used reddit extremely rarely and have no idea where to look at.
Is there a specific page where news get reported and collected fast.
I will really appreciate help for this, since this is the reason I am in GAF, fast overall news circulation and information.
Thanks
Which might have something to do with the current state and the fact that this website was down for a while. Just wait until the dust settles, the other forum opens and the people who want to go there but still linger here are gone as well. There is a need for any semblance of peace and structure before anything can really get going again.
I said that before and I'll say it again. Cool videogame people or Twitter personalities don't automatically make for good admins/moderators.
I'll register and see the ambiance and the moderation policy before making my mind.
Why u mad bro?
Dominican Power
Member
I want my poli-gaf back.
Now that the dust has somewhat settled
I am not a fan of pretending that something did not happen for the sake of moving on. Eventually it will bubble up later on and often than not create a volatile environment, which undeniably create resentment as to why the topic was avoided and not discussed openly. Better to have closure on a controversial topic then pretending it did not happen. That is the root of the problem for a while now, stifling dialog by avoiding it--and no, a robotically written short statement does not help ease that resentment.
How the Amir0x incident was addressed is baffling. Instead of letting people discuss what has happened with him, we instead had to pretend that it was just another incident and lets just avoid talking about it. It is bizarre, because it looks bad from the outside looking in; almost complicit and we as a community indirectly foster people like him. Instead of letting the community talk (and denounce) his actions, we were instructed to pretend that nothing had happened. The statement released about Amir0x was also lacking any real actual statement, it was just a rundown of his history within GAF. While the post did indicate that we should wait for more info, nothing was done when all the allegations proved to be right. That this avoidance and lack of responsibly has hit people deeply is understandable.
Patrick Klepeks article also paints that picture with the mod staff. They clearly understood that it was not handled correctly, and did their best with the limited instructions given. Standing as a united front for a stance most of them did not agree with is heartbreaking considering the excellent and thoughtful staff behind the scenes. That frustration set it for them was understandable, they were getting criticized for being heavy handed in their censorship on the matter but at the same time could not freely speak their mind without throwing the admin under the bus. Admirable that the mod staff stayed during this time for the community, even if they had to sidestep some of their own morals. Which, considering the kind of people the former mods are it must have been emotionally devastating.
It is crucial to talk about the mods that have left, because they were not run-of-the-mill people; they shaped the best aspects of GAF. They have made far more good judgment calls then bad. When people join, they join because of how things have been moderated. Instead of it being a free-for-all, there are basic rules in place but self-judgment is key to survival on the board. People who complain about the heavy-handedness in moderation are often than not people that take no responsibility for their idiocy. In the short term, nothing will change and everything will look fine. But in the long term, when basic rule set that was fostered by former mods starts to fade, and again has to be heavily moderated because it got out of control, the same people complaining now will be the ones on the chopping block. I harbor no ill-will against the remaining mod staff, they have a hard task ahead of them--I wish them the best of luck, I know that they are also going through a stressful time.
Correlation between how the Amir0x incident was handled and now the sexual assault allegations is that history is repeating itself. Again, avoidance and lack of any responsibility. To do it twice to your members and mod staff is inexcusable, you can only ask so much of them. While the whole sexual assault incident is minefield to traverse, especially the tricky he-said-she-said aspect, how it has been handled thus far is baffling beyond words. No lack of any remorse, just a bunch of short incident reports, and demeaning statements about the alleged victim. Which makes this even worse, instead of being self-reflective and upfront we got a defensive response that deflects all the blame. Which doesnt make a strong foundation to stand on going forth, whether the allegations are confirmed to be false or true.
I applaud that Malka has kept some of the harsh threads relating to the sexual assault allegations open, it is a good step at some transparency. At the same time Im worried about the rise of lets-pretend-this-is-not-an-issue posters that have cropped up. Because it just again, leaves this big looming issue open when meanwhile some members are conveniently trying to bury it. Which again, brings in the issue of complacency of sexual assault upon the whole board and all the eventual uncovered evidence will paint it as such. That people want to distance themselves from that notion is not unreasonable. This is why people are taking a hard stance, they want it know that they will not be complacent to silently justify such appalling deflective behavior.
As much as people want this board to go back to talking games, people tend to forget that we talk about every aspect of games--from the initial idea to production to the release. But with it comes difficult discussions, such as the depiction of women, sexual harassment in the workplace, workplace crunch, toxic developer relationships and more. These discussions are steeped with politically charged subject matters, there is no way around it. This is sign of the times, we need to have these once taboo discussions; it reflects greatly that we care not just about the games people make but the people themselves. This also applies to calling out toxic internet personalities. There is no skipping this aspect of gaming now and you are doing a disservice by self-censoring it because we just want to play games. This also applies to the hard censoring of the OT, because especially now that taboo subject matters are finally discussed in the open.
Im not sure if I will be banned for all of this, but it needed to be said. It was my moral duty to at least make an effort to convey why I feel that this is a major issue that will forever taint the way I look at this forum. It is sad, because this use to be my home, now I dont know who is inside anymore or is it worth it to even go inside. I wont be replying regarding this post, Ive just came to clear my mind on these issues.
-Odd
I am not a fan of pretending that something did not happen for the sake of moving on. Eventually it will bubble up later on and often than not create a volatile environment, which undeniably create resentment as to why the topic was avoided and not discussed openly. Better to have closure on a controversial topic then pretending it did not happen. That is the root of the problem for a while now, stifling dialog by avoiding it--and no, a robotically written short statement does not help ease that resentment.
How the Amir0x incident was addressed is baffling. Instead of letting people discuss what has happened with him, we instead had to pretend that it was just another incident and lets just avoid talking about it. It is bizarre, because it looks bad from the outside looking in; almost complicit and we as a community indirectly foster people like him. Instead of letting the community talk (and denounce) his actions, we were instructed to pretend that nothing had happened. The statement released about Amir0x was also lacking any real actual statement, it was just a rundown of his history within GAF. While the post did indicate that we should wait for more info, nothing was done when all the allegations proved to be right. That this avoidance and lack of responsibly has hit people deeply is understandable.
Patrick Klepeks article also paints that picture with the mod staff. They clearly understood that it was not handled correctly, and did their best with the limited instructions given. Standing as a united front for a stance most of them did not agree with is heartbreaking considering the excellent and thoughtful staff behind the scenes. That frustration set it for them was understandable, they were getting criticized for being heavy handed in their censorship on the matter but at the same time could not freely speak their mind without throwing the admin under the bus. Admirable that the mod staff stayed during this time for the community, even if they had to sidestep some of their own morals. Which, considering the kind of people the former mods are it must have been emotionally devastating.
It is crucial to talk about the mods that have left, because they were not run-of-the-mill people; they shaped the best aspects of GAF. They have made far more good judgment calls then bad. When people join, they join because of how things have been moderated. Instead of it being a free-for-all, there are basic rules in place but self-judgment is key to survival on the board. People who complain about the heavy-handedness in moderation are often than not people that take no responsibility for their idiocy. In the short term, nothing will change and everything will look fine. But in the long term, when basic rule set that was fostered by former mods starts to fade, and again has to be heavily moderated because it got out of control, the same people complaining now will be the ones on the chopping block. I harbor no ill-will against the remaining mod staff, they have a hard task ahead of them--I wish them the best of luck, I know that they are also going through a stressful time.
Correlation between how the Amir0x incident was handled and now the sexual assault allegations is that history is repeating itself. Again, avoidance and lack of any responsibility. To do it twice to your members and mod staff is inexcusable, you can only ask so much of them. While the whole sexual assault incident is minefield to traverse, especially the tricky he-said-she-said aspect, how it has been handled thus far is baffling beyond words. No lack of any remorse, just a bunch of short incident reports, and demeaning statements about the alleged victim. Which makes this even worse, instead of being self-reflective and upfront we got a defensive response that deflects all the blame. Which doesnt make a strong foundation to stand on going forth, whether the allegations are confirmed to be false or true.
I applaud that Malka has kept some of the harsh threads relating to the sexual assault allegations open, it is a good step at some transparency. At the same time Im worried about the rise of lets-pretend-this-is-not-an-issue posters that have cropped up. Because it just again, leaves this big looming issue open when meanwhile some members are conveniently trying to bury it. Which again, brings in the issue of complacency of sexual assault upon the whole board and all the eventual uncovered evidence will paint it as such. That people want to distance themselves from that notion is not unreasonable. This is why people are taking a hard stance, they want it know that they will not be complacent to silently justify such appalling deflective behavior.
As much as people want this board to go back to talking games, people tend to forget that we talk about every aspect of games--from the initial idea to production to the release. But with it comes difficult discussions, such as the depiction of women, sexual harassment in the workplace, workplace crunch, toxic developer relationships and more. These discussions are steeped with politically charged subject matters, there is no way around it. This is sign of the times, we need to have these once taboo discussions; it reflects greatly that we care not just about the games people make but the people themselves. This also applies to calling out toxic internet personalities. There is no skipping this aspect of gaming now and you are doing a disservice by self-censoring it because we just want to play games. This also applies to the hard censoring of the OT, because especially now that taboo subject matters are finally discussed in the open.
Im not sure if I will be banned for all of this, but it needed to be said. It was my moral duty to at least make an effort to convey why I feel that this is a major issue that will forever taint the way I look at this forum. It is sad, because this use to be my home, now I dont know who is inside anymore or is it worth it to even go inside. I wont be replying regarding this post, Ive just came to clear my mind on these issues.
-Odd
Com Truise
Member
Reddit is shit for gaming news because they are slow, nobody actually cares about posting news there. Turning reddit into a decent news source takes effort, gaf was easy.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
/r/games for general gaming news with a moderate PC bias
Then subreddits for whatever game you may like, like /r/destinythegame or /r/fortnitebr.
Lol yeah im good. Half the admins were super pricks/liars and almost always had wrong info. Half the mods are !suprise! The posters who always believed themselves "celebrities". Have fun with that group. If GAF goes down ill find someplace to get gaming news but it won't be there.
KarneeKarnay
Member
Well said.
Just look at how slow motion gaming is moving in comparison to how it used to.
- Status