The trade war has begun between the US and Canada
- Thread starter Kifimbo
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Why would milk be more expensive? The issue is the states is overflowing with milk, especially in Wisconsin, where they produce too damn much. American milk products are insanely cheap even without shipping any to us. If trump had a brain he would encourage more stable production of product. Ya know. The thing that dairy boards do in Canada so farmers aren't killing themselves trying to earn a living.
Canada is supposed to be one of USA's allies.
USA is losing so much respect and prestige it's depressing. Why would anyone respect this country with a buffoon like Trump as its President. Why is this asshole instigating stuff like this with one of its best allies.
Sigh. America is becoming really shitty.
America used to be the country others strived to be like. Now it's a joke. Question is who is going to be the new cool country others aspire to?
BolognaOni
Member
Oh man, the stoner arguments over BC vs WA vs OR vs CA weed... That's going to be almost as good as the dudes that turned their recycling bin into a pressure bong freshman year and got stuck at the character select screen in SF2.
All of the global warming your guy causes is making our wood soft. It was quite hard a while ago!
Apparently B.C. Premier Christy Clark wasn't too happy about this:
And yet they make up the bulk of imports for multiple states (including states Trump won in the 2016 election). Funny, innit?
And yet they make up the bulk of imports for multiple states (including states Trump won in the 2016 election). Funny, innit?
A speaker on BNN predicted earlier today (or last week) that US housing prices will skyrocket because of this tariff. US wood sucks, and they can't get enough of Canadian lumber.
Fuck off Trump. The hypocrisy of this man is out of this world.
I love how protectionism is all fine and dandy when it involves America, but as soon as other countries try to protect their own interests, orange fuckhead goes nuts and throws another temper tantrum. If Trudeau plays his cards right and keeps fucking up Cheeto, he may have an easy win next election. Nobody really wants to see the conservatives pathetically kissing Trump's ass.
Also, no one wants garbage American milk over here so it would probably help if US dairy farmers stop overproducing it. It's not Canada's fault they can't find buyers for it.
I love how protectionism is all fine and dandy when it involves America, but as soon as other countries try to protect their own interests, orange fuckhead goes nuts and throws another temper tantrum. If Trudeau plays his cards right and keeps fucking up Cheeto, he may have an easy win next election. Nobody really wants to see the conservatives pathetically kissing Trump's ass.
Also, no one wants garbage American milk over here so it would probably help if US dairy farmers stop overproducing it. It's not Canada's fault they can't find buyers for it.
As a Canadian I am all for free trade with all products with the United States so long as that trade includes laws that keep all products coming in to the country to our quality standards. Our milk products are actually quite expensive but I wouldn't sacrifice the quality for a lower price.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Only if they get rid of bagged milk. I can't deal with that shit.
LOL
Lord_Byron28
Member
Given our great deal maker overlord, America will probably somehow end up losing the west coast to Canada instead.
Reading through all the details of the whole dairy tariff controversy has actually been surprisingly interesting, while also being frustrating because of the relative lack of unbiased information.
The gist of it all seems to be that beginning in the mid-2000s there was a strong increase in demand for milk products across Asia, largely on the back of rising middle-income wealth. This resulted in both demand outpacing growth in supply (by 50% and 100% in some markets on an annual basis) and spiraling prices which caused continued investment and expansion based on the belief that these trends would continue long-term. They didn't: demanded in China and Russia has reduced, and in March of 2015 the EU (the world's largest milk producer) removed its own milk production quotas, setting the stage for massive expansion and modernization in Eastern and central Europe; simultaneously, huge reductions in the price of feed in the US (from $29.26/100kg of milk in 2012 to $18.04/100kg in 2015) -- which were a product of record corn yields and low oil prices which reduced the value of biofuels have further increased US production.
The last point brings up an interesting argument in the tariff/fairness debate: American corn is famously subsidised, and also so over-produced that this year farmers are expecting to lose money on every acre they plant this season. Grain farmers will be getting approximately $4.9 billion in direct payments this year, arguably constituting an indirect subsidy. Another indirect subsidy, according to a 2009 report from Econ professors at Texas A&M, is foreign workers, with migrant labour in the US reducing US retail milk prices by an estimated 61%.
The Canadian-US trade in ultra-filtered milk seems, based on all of this, to have been propping up American producers in an environment of overproduction based on the fact that they, through indirect subsidies and a loophole in US-Canadian trade agreements, could dominate the protected Canadian market (American dairy imports to Canada were up 17% from 2014-15). With it gone, dairy farmers have lost the one crutch they had which protected them from global market forces. Congress having been nice enough to kick the other one out in 2014 when they decided to market-ize the previous direct dairy subsidies by having farmers buy insurance that kicks in when the margin between the price of milk and the cost of feed falls below the level of coverage selected by the producer. They apparently tended to select badly: many of even those covered may not receive assistance this year because the majority of farms are enrolled under catastrophic level, according to the head of the American Farm Bureau, leading inevitably to plenty of anxiety and anger.
The Canadian thing isn't new, but six months ago Congress was talking about reinstating dairy subsidies (even while production continued to expand and the national cheese stockpile reached 1.19 billion pounds...). As a Canadian, I may be a bit biased, but to me this looks like the same old Trump-esque deflection rather than a Canadian-made problem.
Sources:
http://theconversation.com/milk-pri...sweeping-changes-in-global-dairy-market-59251
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/29/congress-asks-usda-to-bail-out-dairy-industry/
http://cnas.tamu.edu/Publications/The Economic Impacts of Immigration onf U.S Dairy Farms.pdf
The gist of it all seems to be that beginning in the mid-2000s there was a strong increase in demand for milk products across Asia, largely on the back of rising middle-income wealth. This resulted in both demand outpacing growth in supply (by 50% and 100% in some markets on an annual basis) and spiraling prices which caused continued investment and expansion based on the belief that these trends would continue long-term. They didn't: demanded in China and Russia has reduced, and in March of 2015 the EU (the world's largest milk producer) removed its own milk production quotas, setting the stage for massive expansion and modernization in Eastern and central Europe; simultaneously, huge reductions in the price of feed in the US (from $29.26/100kg of milk in 2012 to $18.04/100kg in 2015) -- which were a product of record corn yields and low oil prices which reduced the value of biofuels have further increased US production.
The last point brings up an interesting argument in the tariff/fairness debate: American corn is famously subsidised, and also so over-produced that this year farmers are expecting to lose money on every acre they plant this season. Grain farmers will be getting approximately $4.9 billion in direct payments this year, arguably constituting an indirect subsidy. Another indirect subsidy, according to a 2009 report from Econ professors at Texas A&M, is foreign workers, with migrant labour in the US reducing US retail milk prices by an estimated 61%.
The Canadian-US trade in ultra-filtered milk seems, based on all of this, to have been propping up American producers in an environment of overproduction based on the fact that they, through indirect subsidies and a loophole in US-Canadian trade agreements, could dominate the protected Canadian market (American dairy imports to Canada were up 17% from 2014-15). With it gone, dairy farmers have lost the one crutch they had which protected them from global market forces. Congress having been nice enough to kick the other one out in 2014 when they decided to market-ize the previous direct dairy subsidies by having farmers buy insurance that kicks in when the margin between the price of milk and the cost of feed falls below the level of coverage selected by the producer. They apparently tended to select badly: many of even those covered may not receive assistance this year because the majority of farms are enrolled under catastrophic level, according to the head of the American Farm Bureau, leading inevitably to plenty of anxiety and anger.
The Canadian thing isn't new, but six months ago Congress was talking about reinstating dairy subsidies (even while production continued to expand and the national cheese stockpile reached 1.19 billion pounds...). As a Canadian, I may be a bit biased, but to me this looks like the same old Trump-esque deflection rather than a Canadian-made problem.
Sources:
http://theconversation.com/milk-pri...sweeping-changes-in-global-dairy-market-59251
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/29/congress-asks-usda-to-bail-out-dairy-industry/
http://cnas.tamu.edu/Publications/The Economic Impacts of Immigration onf U.S Dairy Farms.pdf
You're what's wrong with America.
P.S. The Province of Canada burned down the White House during the last time the U.S. went to war with its northern neighbours.
Don't mess with Canada or we'll do it again.
Trump: "What can I get for a Washington?"
Trudeau: "For that, we'll give you better lumber prices for 10 more years. Throw in California and we'll put our own milk in cartons!"
Trump: "Terrific, milk is the best. I have it in my cereal every morning. Great deal!"
Muppet of a Man
Member
All White Evangelical Conservatives chanting in unison: "Hey guyz, let's run our country like a washed up conman runs a used car dealership! Supply-side Jesus said it was His Word. I heardz it in the Prosperity Gospel."
Rest of rational world: <Collective facepalm that can be heard from outer space.>
Rest of rational world: <Collective facepalm that can be heard from outer space.>
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Bagged milk is gross. I know it. You know it. Everybody knows it.
I'm sure the United Kingdom had nothing to do with the war of 1812....and lol if Canada tries to go to war with the US. Didn't the Canadian Air Force have to raid a museum for some spare plane parts a couple of years back?
Didn't NASA have to order some parts off ebay?
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Thankfully NASA is not really part of the US Armed Forces, but since you brought it up, what about the CSA? Have they ever done anything worth a damn outside of some satellites?
Seriously. I'm glad we really worked on that the last two decades. Much easier to deal with the American's now.
Same. But I'm adamant about that as well. I've seen and eaten American pork, chicken, beef...it's weird, something's not right. My mother-in-law went across to the border one time and bought a bunch of American meat. She never told us about it, but everyone noticed immediately when we were cooking it and after we started eating as well. This is a lady who loves to save for the sake of saving, like it's challenge. She goes to 3+ groceries in the same day to get the best deals, gets all the coupons, etc. And my in-laws are quite well to do. There's absolutely no need to go that far. Even she conceded that she's never buying American meat to save money. Ten years later, I'm 99% sure she hasn't.
The only thing I liked about the TPP when it was being negotiated was an opportunity for Harper to reform our diary industry. I thought that since he gleefully did something similar to the CWB he'd be up for it, but as it turns out, as usual with our blue-vested empty vessel of a man, it was all political theater and he managed to secure diary industry concessions in the TPP.
And now I'll place some more unrealistic hopes on Trudeau, I guess. Diary votes are rural Ontario and Quebec, mostly. He's not winning those anyways. I'd fake being really opposed to removing diary supply management in order to get concessions elsewhere, then throw them in the negotiations. Make the US think you're giving up something you're actually happy to get rid of.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I wouldn't be surprised that if the U.S. attempted to annex Canada via a ground invasion that they would get their asses handed to them like when the Russians attempted to invade Finland in the Winter War of 1939.
Here are the stats for that conflict:
Casualties and losses (Finland with approx. 300,000 troops):
25,904 dead or missing [F 7][14]
43,557 wounded[15]
8001,100 captured[F 8][16]
957 civilians killed in air raids[14]
2030 tanks destroyed
62 aircraft lost[17]
70,000 total casualties
Casualties and losses (Russia with approx. 1,000,000 troops and vastly superior ordnance):
126,875167,976 dead or missing[F 9][19][20]
188,671 wounded, concussed or burned[19]
5,572 captured[21]
3,543 tanks[F 10][22][23][24]
261515 aircraft[F 11][24][25]
321,000-363,000 total casualties
Here are the stats for that conflict:
Casualties and losses (Finland with approx. 300,000 troops):
25,904 dead or missing [F 7][14]
43,557 wounded[15]
8001,100 captured[F 8][16]
957 civilians killed in air raids[14]
2030 tanks destroyed
62 aircraft lost[17]
70,000 total casualties
Casualties and losses (Russia with approx. 1,000,000 troops and vastly superior ordnance):
126,875167,976 dead or missing[F 9][19][20]
188,671 wounded, concussed or burned[19]
5,572 captured[21]
3,543 tanks[F 10][22][23][24]
261515 aircraft[F 11][24][25]
321,000-363,000 total casualties
Extra Sauce
Member
Begun, the Polite Wars have.
Your opinion on milk is objectively wrong. Also, The UK was kind of busy with a guy causing all sorts of problems in Europe to devote major resources to the War of 1812, stop me if you've heard of a man named Napoleon.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Sure, but the UK was still heavily involved in that war and I highly doubt the outcome would have been the same had the Britsh not have been as heavily involved as they were, but I digress.
My opinion on bagged milk is shared worldwide. Bagged milk is objectively detested everywhere in the world.
CaviarMeths
Member
As another Saskatchewan resident, no thanks. I'd rather be the Kansas of Canada than Actual Kansas.
After a second 10-minute Trudeau talk
Trump: "We shouldn't punish Canada, we love Canada, them putting tariffs on our milk means more patriotic, great great cheap American milk for Americans.
American Milk, for Americans. I've lived that messages all my life, isn't it a great message Justin, so great"
Trump: "We shouldn't punish Canada, we love Canada, them putting tariffs on our milk means more patriotic, great great cheap American milk for Americans.
American Milk, for Americans. I've lived that messages all my life, isn't it a great message Justin, so great"
JonnyDBrit
Member
...So let me get this straight:
Because Canadian forests are owned by local government, rather than private individuals, they charge a lower fee for their own citizens to be able to use and harvest from those forests. This thus makes Canadian wood cheaper, and makes it overly competitive with US wood?
That's not a fucking subsidy, that's just setting a price tag which they can accept on themselves because they're not solely for profit.
Because Canadian forests are owned by local government, rather than private individuals, they charge a lower fee for their own citizens to be able to use and harvest from those forests. This thus makes Canadian wood cheaper, and makes it overly competitive with US wood?
That's not a fucking subsidy, that's just setting a price tag which they can accept on themselves because they're not solely for profit.
ManDudeChild
Member
Of course Clark wasn't happy about this. An election is coming up, and hopefully we can be rid of the CFOX pundit.
Impeccable
Member
Embarrassing seeing military dick waving in this thread.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Seductivpancakes
Member
People in this thread actually like McDonald's coffee? It tastes like ashtray.
He already promised he'd open federal lands to drilling and lumber, get ready for cronies to sign massive sweetheart deals and pillage national forests. This situation will only make that pitch to his base even easier.
"Drill, baby, drill" will be on (red) hats and bumper stickers again
You must mean Panera... McDonald's has taken the best fast food coffee title
its weak as fuck ...give me Tim's or Robin's any day over MicD's.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
You don't pick who to sell to without losing something. If Canada goes to China and pushes for them to buy the wood, China will offer the worst deal possible since they end up with the upper hand. Same thing happened when Russia got hit with sanctions and they signed that oil and gas deal with China. If Canada could sell its wood for the same price or higher to China they would already be doing it. Canada will sell its wood for less than it used to.
People have to stop pretending China will hand out free money every time some country is complaining about the US. China gets the upper hand in such cases, and the country trying to sell them something is just trying to cut its losses.
Yep.
Poutine, bagged milk, Tim Horton's. Gee, never heard those before.
Most Americans couldn't even find Canada on a map, so I guess I can't blame them for parroting the three things they think they know about my country.
Anyways, it was only a matter of time before the orange rapist switched his attention to Canada. Like someone else mentioned, the less we have to deal with/rely on the US, the better.
Saying this as a Canadian, the Canadian dairy industry is kind of ridiculous, and the Canadian dairy supply management squeezes regular Canadians even more than we already are being squeezed. I hate the protectionist stance the Canadian government has towards dairy here.
I cautiously welcome this move if it means the end result is more competition in the Canadian dairy industry.
I cautiously welcome this move if it means the end result is more competition in the Canadian dairy industry.
RiverShell
Member
I'd rather we keep our milk clean, rather than load it with steroids and other shit. I'm glad Trudeau isn't taking shit from Tiny Hands and his pack of idiots.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
As long as we don't try to rename Canada Dry to America Dry over this, I'm cool with it.
Dead Prince
Banned
we'll get to the point that we can't escape US because he has bad bad relationship with everyone outside of the US.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
A Serious Man
Member
Trump sees the writing on the wall and must move before our worst fears are realized and a Canadian team wins the Stanley Cup again.
Ovek
7Member7
The UK will still be desperately hanging on in four years time.
Change the game to Skullgirls and 3rd Strike and this was basically my own stoner experience.
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