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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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Nah I'm sorry but the United States actually has a massive interest in seeing the post-WW2 order in Europe preserved, believing otherwise is complete isolationist naivety and the fact he doesn't even seem to understand the issue is terrifying.

At least Clinton will soon take the reigns and the US can get back to actually caring about what happens in the world. I get that Obama is a child of the pacific and has no interest in the old world, but the EU is on the verge of disintegrating with an emboldened, increasingly belligerent Russia licking its lips, and all Obama can say is 'well, average people won't be affected'.



A Norway-like relationship is IMPOSSIBLE. Norway's status requires it accepts free movement of people and labour, something UK voters expressively voted against. Anyone who understands these issues knows this.

He understands the issue, he just knows better than to start campaigning for another referendum in the UK or even worse start spreading bad news about the whole ordeal. That doesn't play well here and it surely doesn't play well with the large percentage of people and government officials in the UK who want to leave. The US needs to have a relationship with the UK even when it's government chooses directions we don't necessarily agree with.
 
what the fuck do you expect him to say? He has to come out and say everything is sunshine and rainbows. He can't do anything that might make the situation worse.

Not sound like a Putin propagandist by saying 'this is the end of EU's ever increasing integration' would be a start. I get that Obama wants to preserve calm, but that doesn't mean acting like none of this matters.

Let's not forget much of the angst in the UK and across EU has arguably been caused directly by Obama's 'hands-off' foreign policy. His disinterest in Russian aggression towards Eastern Europe and letting Assad continue to gas and bomb his country causing the mass immigration of 2 million refugees to Europe. Sometimes the 'stupidest shit' you can do is doing nothing at all.
 

Aki-at

Member
http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/especiai...a-em-Londres-convidada-a-voltar-para-Portugal

Portuguese emigrant, living in the south of London, got hit with an england flag on the face, spat on and shouted "GO AWAY TO YOUR COUNTRY!" on the first day of brexit. Shes been living in there for 13 years.

Plot twist, the daughters boyfriend voted LEAVE...

My Portuguese friend and I was joking about how we have the oldest ALLIANCE in the world.

Then this news broke pft so much for the alliance. What horrible human beings.
 
And conversely, it has been explicitly stated that access to the single market will not happen without free movement.



Looking at some of the anti-intellectualism I've seen going around, I don't think it will be :(

Yeah, with the bad scapegoat called "EU" not being available anymore I fear Nationalists might turn over to making foreigners still living in the country responsible for those inconvenient actions, as it is absolutely out of the question that he likes of Johnson or Farage take ANY responsibility (which they basically already proclaimed).
 

Z3K

Member
President Obama's shrug at Brexit is a fucking betrayal. He's objectively the worst US President Europe has ever had. Implying nothing will change for 'average people' and that the UK will adopt the Norwegian EU associate model just shows how completely ignorant/disinterested in Europe. Obama is happiest talking to young entrepreneurs in a restaurant in Hanoi, sounding cool and achieving nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9S3KFSgAj0

Obama and the US government I'm sure are working behind scenes to calm the EU down and push them to accept a Norway style deal for the UK.
The EU is big, but the US is the big dog, and it won't allow this shit show to continue and give Russia ideas.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
And conversely, it has been explicitly stated that access to the single market will not happen without free movement.



Looking at some of the anti-intellectualism I've seen going around, I don't think it will be :(

EU will do the Norway deal bit Norway plus as we want . Just Norway shut the fuck up and leave deal. Five year get out length

Forcing UK to sort it's shit out. (Fund .EU, Stop eu based businesses in uk tanking , more job loses but they force uk behind scenes to say we saw the light )We will only be associates now . Scotland gets better trade deals London too. As soon completed .

Eu do two tier trade system to keep rest together
Uk dies so much damage to itself the example writes itself,
 

Breakage

Member
I'd never think I'd see that. Wow the english xenophobes sure are on a whole different level. They don't like anyone

Im not sure how to feel

Yeah, I think they really are on a different level. For example Japan has its problems with xenophobia, but you wouldn't see this kind of behaviour in response to foreigners.
 

theaface

Member
Corbyn statement seems to say he's not resigning

Another one. Another one of these slimebags who think it's about them, and not about the people they swore to serve. There's being a man of principle and then there's just being blind to the world around you.

Makes me sick how much of the news over the past two days has been about sodding Corbyn and not nearly enough about the actual impacts of the referendum vote (i.e. economy, racism). Shameful.
 
And conversely, it has been explicitly stated that access to the single market will not happen without free movement.

UK is not going to have access to the single market without accepting free movement of labour. Brussels has already stated this, and I'm pretty sure Gove admitted it during the campaign. The Norwegian associate model is not an option for the UK.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Obama and the US government I'm sure are working behind scenes to calm the EU down and push them to accept a Norway style deal for the UK.
The EU is big, but the US is the big dog, and it won't allow this shit show to continue and give Russia ideas.

This it what we get, it will be phyrric ebough but its spun as a win . Salt is better deals for Scotland and some others London won't die but Paris Frankfurt do call the trading shots now.
 

Z3K

Member
EU will do the Norway deal bit Norway plus as we want . Just Norway shut the fuck up and leave deal. Five year get out length

Forcing UK to sort it's shit out. (Fund .EU, Stop eu based businesses in uk tanking , more job loses but they force uk behind scenes to say we saw the light )We will only be associates now . Scotland gets better trade deals London too. As soon completed .

Eu do two tier trade system to keep rest together
Uk dies so much damage to itself the example writes itself,

I agree, a Norway style deal will happen, and free movement will continue with a caveat that EU citizens will not be able to claim benefits until after 6 months or working here or something like that which will appease the Leavers.
 

The Boat

Member
Not sound like a Putin propagandist by saying 'this is the end of EU's ever increasing integration' would be a start. I get that Obama wants to preserve calm, but that doesn't mean acting like none of this matters.

Let's not forget much of the angst in the UK and across EU has arguably been caused directly by Obama's 'hands-off' foreign policy. His disinterest in Russian aggression towards Eastern Europe and letting Assad continue to gas and bomb his country causing the mass immigration of 2 million refugees to Europe. Sometimes the 'stupidest shit' you can do is doing nothing at all.

Im not sure how versed you are in American politics but the party who puts people like Obama in office already thinks we are too involved in foreign affairs and is pretty damn tired of being the world's police. The fact that Clinton is seen as a hawk is a pretty big negative against her here with Democrats.

So you may see it as a negative that Obama isn't more of a hawk but here that's one thing people actually prefer about him over Clinton. If you want more foreign intervention the GOP would suit that need nicely but chances are you wouldn't like the other shit they bring with them.
 

avaya

Member
Obama and the US government I'm sure are working behind scenes to calm the EU down and push them to accept a Norway style deal for the UK.
The EU is big, but the US is the big dog, and it won't allow this shit show to continue and give Russia ideas.

Economically the EU is the big dog. People forget this.
 

oti

Banned
I don't think Obama meant the UK will get the Norway deal. For the US losing the UK as an EU member is a huge deal. Both nations often share the same point of view, for the US this means losing its direct influence over the EU from within the EU. To make it all appear less frightening he used Norway as an example. They aren't an EU member either but that doesn't mean they're causing problems for the US all the time.

That's the irony here, from now on the UK will have two choices. Either follow the US or follow the EU. Lead seems rather impossible.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
People have to understand that free movement of labour is an essential part of a single market. It's not some unrelated condition that the EU requires of people in exchange for giving them access to the single market, it is a critical part of the single market actually being a single market.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
President Obama's shrug at Brexit is a fucking betrayal. He's objectively the worst US President Europe has ever had. Implying nothing will change for 'average people' and that the UK will adopt the Norwegian EU associate model just shows how completely ignorant/disinterested in Europe. Obama is happiest talking to young entrepreneurs in a restaurant in Hanoi, sounding cool and achieving nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9S3KFSgAj0
Obama was never really interested in Europe, this only changed because of Russia's actions, Syria, Lybia and stuff like TTIP. I always thought it's kind of a blessing, forcing Europe to deal with its own problems.

On the other hand he's really not saying much except "keep calm"
 

ss1

Neo Member
This it what we get, it will be phyrric ebough but its spun as a win . Salt is better deals for Scotland and some others London won't die but Paris Frankfurt do call the trading shots now.

I expect the City of London to wilt gradually as it’s place of importance diminishes in comparison to Frankfurt and Paris.
 
UK is not going to have access to the single market without accepting free movement of labour. Brussels has already stated this, and I'm pretty sure Gove admitted it during the campaign. The Norwegian associate model is not an option for the UK.

Norway is part of the Schengen area, which I thought entailed all 4 free movements including persons and labor. So, how would the Norway model not work for the UK apart from the notion that it would theoretically be rejected by 52% of people who voted on a particular referendum? (something that won't matter if the Norway model is the only thing that makes economic sense for the moment)
 

Breakage

Member
In this age of social media and the internet, all of these disgraceful incidents will circulating around the world. I can't imagine what foreigners outside of the UK think of this nation now.
It's going to deter a lot of people from coming here imo.
 
Im not sure how versed you are in American politics but the party who puts people like Obama in office already thinks we are too involved in foreign affairs and is pretty damn tired of being the world's police. The fact that Clinton is seen as a hawk is a pretty big negative against her here with Democrats.

So you may see it as a negative that Obama isn't more of a hawk but here that's one thing people actually prefer about him over Clinton. If you want more foreign intervention the GOP would suit that need nicely but chances are you wouldn't like the other shit they bring with them.

I don't care about what public opinion prefers; given a referendum in 1939 I'm sure the UK would've voted again for NOT going to war with Nazi Germany. The job of the president isn't to be liked, it's to do the right thing, and Obama has absolutely failed at doing that.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Obama and the US government I'm sure are working behind scenes to calm the EU down and push them to accept a Norway style deal for the UK.
The EU is big, but the US is the big dog, and it won't allow this shit show to continue and give Russia ideas.

He wouldn't have to push very hard; EU will want a Norway style deal (minus maybe the financial passport). It's jsut an extremely bad deal for the UK, and specifically does nothing against the main pro-Brexit propaganda, so he'll rather have to push the UK to take it.
 
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The new -

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Raven117

Member
Nah I'm sorry but the United States actually has a massive interest in seeing the post-WW2 order in Europe preserved, believing otherwise is complete isolationist naivety and the fact he doesn't even seem to understand the issue is terrifying.

At least Clinton will soon take the reigns and the US can get back to actually caring about what happens in the world. I get that Obama is a child of the pacific and has no interest in the old world, but the EU is on the verge of disintegrating with an emboldened, increasingly belligerent Russia licking its lips, and all Obama can say is 'well, average people won't be affected'.

.

Hey man, for once, this is not America's fault We didn't call a vote, our citizens didn't vote to Leave a strong trading block.

While yes, the West (that includes the U.S.) has a vested interest in a strong and safe Europe for not only our own interests, but for the world at large, we cannot be held responsible for the U.K. shooting itself in the foot.

I watched the video, and it was a calm and measured response. Something needed at the moment. Yes, he mentioned Norway . . . but as an example of countries existing outside the EU and not being completely effed. Not that the U.K. should wholesale adopt their "deal."

In this age of social media and the internet, all of these disgraceful incidents will circulating around the world. I can't imagine what foreigners outside of the UK think of this nation now.
It's going to deter a lot of people from coming here imo.

We will send you our Trump voters! Looks like they have lots to talk about over a pint!
joking around
 

Breakage

Member

Erevador

Member
President Obama's shrug at Brexit is a fucking betrayal. He's objectively the worst US President Europe has ever had. Implying nothing will change for 'average people' and that the UK will adopt the Norwegian EU associate model just shows how completely ignorant/disinterested in Europe. Obama is happiest talking to young entrepreneurs in a restaurant in Hanoi, sounding cool and achieving nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9S3KFSgAj0
Nonsense. Obama is staying reasonable and rational as too many in Europe fall over themselves to overreact in the most hyperbolic way possible.
 
He wouldn't have to push very hard; EU will want a Norway style deal (minus maybe the financial passport). It's jsut an extremely bad deal for the UK, and specifically does nothing against the main pro-Brexit propaganda, so he'll rather have to push the UK to take it.

Associate membership won't happen. This entire referendum has been about 1 singular issue: immigration. Believing that the Brexit government will opt to abandon our influence within the EU government but retain freedom of movement (like Norway) is believing in a fantasy. Obama is seemingly ignorant of this.
 
I don't care about what public opinion prefers; given a referendum in 1939 I'm sure the UK would've voted again for NOT going to war with Nazi Germany. The job of the president isn't to be liked, it's to do the right thing, and Obama has absolutely failed at doing that.

Obama gently pushed for Remain before the vote and has Kerry at the EU now managing the fall out. Anything beyond that is just going to whip up British nationalism and make everything worse. What do you want him to do, threaten sanctions against the UK or something?
 

Z3K

Member
He wouldn't have to push very hard; EU will want a Norway style deal (minus maybe the financial passport). It's jsut an extremely bad deal for the UK, and specifically does nothing against the main pro-Brexit propaganda, so he'll rather have to push the UK to take it.

We will take that deal and shut the fuck up.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
EU doesn't have a military, and they can't survive without America backing them up, so they will listen intently to what the US will say about all of this.
I mean...the member states do!?
This is European domestic policy in a sense, not sure why the US would get too involved.
 
what the fuck do you expect him to say? He has to come out and say everything is sunshine and rainbows. He can't do anything that might make the situation worse.
Exactly.
This is the same fundamental misunderstanding of the situation as when people talk about punishment from the EU, or think "We respect the vote" means more than "you did this to yourselves, congrats".

All these foreign countries told the UK before the vote how much of a fuck up this would be, which was met with "nyurk nyurk, you're not the boss of me, we're sovereign" by enough voters. A foreign power is certainly not going to save the country from a popular nationalist backlash.

Right now, everyone else in the world are looking out for the best interests of the people they represent :
- Everyone in the west needs markets to be as stable as possible, and to not burn bridges because at some point in the future, trade agreements will need to be made.
- the EU specifically needs to remind the UK that the process can't start until article 50 is triggered by the UK. This is very important as these were the terms agreed on beforehand and as this is done because UK voters have decided so, the EU should play absolutely no part in triggering the exit. Anything else could cast doubt on responsibilities and they need to be unambiguous this is UK's sovereign will. They want it to be triggered quickly not to punish the UK, but to not make this limbo of UK's making last more than it should. This is also in UK's interest as an unstable country is not desirable for business.

- Scotland didn't agree to leave and they're exhausting every possible solution.

Right now, the only ones not scrambling to protect their people's interests are the UK (minus Scotland and Ireland) as they're too busy fighting each other, posturing, or trying to fuck Scotland. So yeah, taking it out on Obama is utterly misguided.
 
Obama gently pushed for Remain before the vote and has Kerry at the EU now managing the fall out. Anything beyond that is just going to whip up British nationalism and make everything worse. What do you want him to do, threaten sanctions against the UK or something?

Like I said, simply holding back from proclaiming the end of EU integration and acting as though nothing of value is being lost would be nice. Obama a complete lame duck on the problems facing Europe, since the beginning of his presidency.
 
I don't care about what public opinion prefers; given a referendum in 1939 I'm sure the UK would've voted again for NOT going to war with Nazi Germany. The job of the president isn't to be liked, it's to do the right thing, and Obama has absolutely failed at doing that.

You have to get elected to become president. If a party keeps pushing forward a presidential candidate that goes against what the party wants that's a party that won't last long.

And who gets to decide what is right? For us what is right is reducing the size of our military, quit busting our national budget on being the police, and spending that money on shit we need like Healthcare and education. So if you ask me what's right, I'd say the health and education of US citizens comes before European interests.

This is a problem created solely by the UK, fix your own problems.
 

Hasney

Member

So while I did say it was a dead cat bounce to start with (and it still could be), I do believe the markets have slightly rallied as some senior Tories appear to favour entering the EEA as leaving the EU and if that's the most likely option. then the markets would be happier with that than a total exit.

However, it still would feel like all this shit has been for absolutley nothing if that happens, for us to pay more, have more of a say and keep freedom of movement. Feels like a comprimise where no-one is happy.

Ignoring the referendum would be the best thing for the markets, obviously. The opposite end of the spectrum of just leaving would make it crash harder.
 

Piecake

Member
I don't care about what public opinion prefers; given a referendum in 1939 I'm sure the UK would've voted again for NOT going to war with Nazi Germany. The job of the president isn't to be liked, it's to do the right thing, and Obama has absolutely failed at doing that.

Well, even if he shat all over Britain for their stupid decision and went all doom and gloom about the European project, what would have been the results?

I don't see any. He isn't going to change anything with speeches and interviews. All he is going to do is if he goes all doom and gloom is piss half of Britain off and perhaps make the markets worse. That isn't in the benefit of America or Britain.

And hell, he told Britain that there will be fallout before the vote. What else do you expect him to do? How is he supposed to help fix this? The US President does not have some singular credibility. Other people, other experts, other respected people who are not the leaders of a foreign government can give the hard truth. Diplomacy has never been about that because telling a nation that they are a bunch of doomed fucking idiots is a good way to ruin a relationship
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Associate membership won't happen. This entire referendum has been about 1 singular issue: immigration. Believing that the Brexit government will opt to abandon our influence within the EU government but retain freedom of movement (like Norway) is believing in a fantasy. Obama is seemingly ignorant of this.

I think they'll jump on it if it's their only way to keep the financial passports. UK's position in negotiation is weak because they absolutely need these passports or won't survive.
 
In this age of social media and the internet, all of these disgraceful incidents will circulating around the world. I can't imagine what foreigners outside of the UK think of this nation now.
It's going to deter a lot of people from coming here imo.

Foreigners "outside of the UK"? Huh? They're all over here, mate. Taking our jobs. Raping our women. Kicking our dogs. Shitting in letter boxes.

Scum of the earth!
 
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