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[DragonKnight]

I don't care. HD Nintendo games. The mission is already accomplished.

Probably is that nintendo can't expand their market this way. Next gen will be interesting to watch for sure. That said, I'll be getting a WiiU on day one.

 

[Roo]

Darn. I was hoping to avoid having to own more than one console again.

you better start saving some extra extra money...

 

[DragonKnight]

you better start saving some extra extra money...

That's fine. I go where the games are. And contrary to what some nintendo fans think, third party studios also put out fantastic software.

 

[EatChildren]

Indeed all of the bumps have mostly consisted of gaining a few Frames per second. take 2-3 bumps and it adds up a bit but its basically taking a mid range gpu and upgrading to a slightly better mdi range gpu. It boosts but nothing amazing

Yeah. It was weird, because the way people were talking made it sound like Nintendo had sent out kits with a noteworthy performance boost. Like they'd flipped an important switch. But the numbers didn't back that up. Just typical optimisation, squeezing out a couple of extra frames.

 

[Lonely1]

Again, what makes you think we can expect this? If the system is on par with PS3 and 360 as numerous sources have reported, wouldn't that be around 512MB of RAM?

Now you know why all those on par reports are mostly rubbish... congrats!

 

[bgassassin]

Reports of the apparent devkit bump are interesting to me, because I've seen numbers of one particular benchmark comparing two devkit revisions around the time people were reporting the bump, and the difference was literally just a couple of frames.

I agree as I don't recall the original rumor saying there was a "power bump" to run UE4. And yeah that "bump" was minimal.

especially considering the whole point of the tweaks was to get this engine running wasn't it? Or some supposed engine that we concluded was unreal engine 4 because it was the only one that fit. That and the rumours that it was running on it.


interesting. wish we could know more about it.

Well the primary reason for the tweaks I know of was to optimize (current) 3rd party engines. I think most concluded it was UE3.

What do you mean by original target specs, exactly? What are these, when did you give them and when did the rest of the world have them explicitly verified?

Sorry. Don't feel like going through all that. You're free to ignore anything I mention.

I stand by my prediction, wiiU won't officially run unreal engine 4. I bet Epic has parameters that constitute what UE4 officially is, and the wiiU doesn't meet those parameters, but it will still be able to run the engine on a level that allows games that run on those parameters to be scaled down.

Am I making sense? BG make me sound less dumb....go!

If Wii U didn't meet those parameters, then it wouldn't be able to run UE4 at all. That would mean Wii U doesn't have the features needed for it. If it does have the features, then it could run a scaled-down version. I think most feel that Epic is targeting DX11 as the minimum. So an equivalent level is what we would need to expect from Wii U's GPU. As I've said before the only reason why Wii U couldn't run UE4 is because Nintendo didn't put forth the effort to make a GPU that could.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Well if this ends up being true, and UE4 is as prevalent next gen as UE3 was this gen, Nintendo is going to have a hard time setting out to do what they said they were going to do, winning over 3rd parties, etc.

 

[abasm]

As we understand it so far, we don't know if ANY next-gen systems will support UE4. Epic said they were in talks with the hardware developers to convince them to make systems capable of supporting it, but most rumours have indicated a more conservative generational leap. Nobody can afford the software-subsidized loss leader approach anymore--Nintendo was forced into it kicking and screaming, and you can be sure that they'll build and price the Wii U to avoid the same fate.

My bet: Epic will scale UE4 to fit next-gen consoles and smartphones--not the other way around. If that's the case, there's a very good chance we could see it come to Wii U.

 

[bgassassin]

But... bgassassin said Wii U = PS2, PS4/Xbox720 = GCN/XBox...

And I stand by that.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If Wii U didn't meet those parameters, then it wouldn't be able to run UE4 at all. That would mean Wii U doesn't have the features needed for it. If it does have the features, then it could run a scaled-down version. I think most feel that Epic is targeting DX11 as the minimum. So an equivalent level is what we would need to expect from Wii U's GPU. As I've said before the only reason why Wii U couldn't run UE4 is because Nintendo didn't put forth the effort to make a GPU that could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItXQTyD_48&feature=related

 

[Roo]

That's fine. I go where the games are. And contrary to what some nintendo fans think, third party studios also put out fantastic software.

I was planning to be a one console owner this time
but apparently that won't the case
I love Nintendo first party games but you can't cover the sun with your finger...
third party games are important too

 

[Lonely1]

And I stand by that.

Ps2 couldn't run HL2 or Doom 3.

 

[Snakeyes]

And I stand by that.

Ballsy.

 

[bgassassin]

As we understand it so far, we don't know if ANY next-gen systems will support UE4. Epic said they were in talks with the hardware developers to convince them to make systems capable of supporting it, but most rumours have indicated a more conservative generational leap. Nobody can afford the software-subsidized loss leader approach anymore--Nintendo was forced into it kicking and screaming, and you can be sure that they'll build and price the Wii U to avoid the same fate.

My bet: Epic will scale UE4 to fit next-gen consoles and smartphones--not the other way around. If that's the case, there's a very good chance we could see it come to Wii U.

Nah. They are definitely setting a minimum feature set for UE4. Epic's desire for power is just the icing on the cake.

And most rumors suggesting a conservative leap are most likely being trolled with false info.

Ps2 couldn't run HL2 or Doom 3.

XD. Just adds to my confidence.

 

[SolidSnakex]

But yeah, I'm not expecting, say, GTA built for PS4 and 720 to be portable in any way to WiiU. It'll be the third-party situation all over again, only this time Nintendo's games won't look like standard-def shitstains on modern-day TVs.

I'm not so sure about that. Rockstar wants to make as much money as they can, especially since they only release one of two new games a year. If GTA5 is released for the Wii U and it performs well for them, then why wouldn't they figure out how to release the next game on the system? I think that'll apply to other third party devs also. Those devs and publishers aren't going to ignore a fanbase that wants their games.

 

[EloquentM]

The only thing I hate about threads like that is the fact that they illicit absolutely no valuable discussion. Most posts are just hit-and-run posts.

 

[filler]

I asked earlier and didn't really get a response, but it seems I was right in thinking 360 to wii u=gamecube to wii.

I'll only be disappointed in this system, if they don't include a wiimote and nunchuk in the box. Wii pointer controls for FPS games or nothin'.

 

[Fantastical]

Yeah. It was weird, because the way people were talking made it sound like Nintendo had sent out kits with a noteworthy performance boost. Like they'd flipped an important switch. But the numbers didn't back that up. Just typical optimisation, squeezing out a couple of extra frames.

Was it IdeaMan who said the bump was significant?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The only thing I hate about threads like that is the fact that they illicit absolutely no valuable discussion. Most posts are just hit-and-run posts.

what can you do, it's news, and news deserves threads.

 

[EatChildren]

As we understand it so far, we don't know if ANY next-gen systems will support UE4. Epic said they were in talks with the hardware developers to convince them to make systems capable of supporting it, but most rumours have indicated a more conservative generational leap. Nobody can afford the software-subsidized loss leader approach anymore--Nintendo was forced into it kicking and screaming, and you can be sure that they'll build and price the Wii U to avoid the same fate.

My bet: Epic will scale UE4 to fit next-gen consoles and smartphones--not the other way around. If that's the case, there's a very good chance we could see it come to Wii U.

As I said awhile ago, I'm fairly certain Microsoft already has plans to use UE4 for several internally developed titles. Epic were in talks of getting more grunt out of the hardware, and did not state UE4 wouldn't work without said grunt.

UE4 will run on Microsoft's next system. I bet my position as a moderator on it.

 

[Lonely1]

And most rumors suggesting a conservative leap are most likely being trolled with false info.

Which rumors? Because an 7850 equivalent for the Ps4 might qualify as conservative for many.

 

[antonz]

The only thing I hate about threads like that is the fact that they illicit absolutely no valuable discussion. Most posts are just hit-and-run posts.

The topic is one that is hard to have a conversation on. Its a good thread for cullings though. As I did point out though in the thread if what Geoff says is true then it was a private conversation that he revealed publiclly because Mike made no such statement at GDC to the public

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

As I said awhile ago, I'm fairly certain Microsoft already has plans to use UE4 for several internally developed titles. Epic were in talks of getting more grunt out of the hardware, and did not state UE4 wouldn't work without said grunt.

UE4 will run on Microsoft's next system. I bet my position as a moderator on it.

lol it's kind of obvious because if it didn't, it'd only run on nothing considering what we know about the ps4 (aka if xbox can't run it, no way ps4 will).

 

[Chet Rippo]

Man none of this stuff makes any sense to me. I just want to see the games now.

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

I asked earlier and didn't really get a response, but it seems I was right in thinking 360 to wii u=gamecube to wii.

This I don't agree with....

I'll only be disappointed in this system, if they don't include a wiimote and nunchuk in the box. Wii pointer controls for FPS games or nothin'.

This I stand by 100%

 

[onilink88]

Did anyone think otherwise? We've known all along that PS4 and 720 will be far more powerful than WiiU, to the point where games made for them won't be able to run on WiiU.

Not that I think every game on the PS4/720 will be "downportable", but you seem to be ignoring the scalability of engines here.

It's simple: think of PC gaming. Do you think that games are made with only high-end rigs in mind?

Was it IdeaMan who said the bump was significant?

No. >_>

 

[bgassassin]

I asked earlier and didn't really get a response, but it seems I was right in thinking 360 to wii u=gamecube to wii.

No that's not the case.

Was it IdeaMan who said the bump was significant?

No. Someone twisting the original UE4 rumor on another site if I remember correctly.

Which rumors? Because an 7850 equivalent for the Ps3 might qualify as conservative for many.

The ones that had it weaker than that.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Hmm, I wonder if it's simply not powerful enough, or they just don't want to port it.

I think the downside is, next gen will probably have quite a few games that could realistically be ported to the Wii U, but now probably won't, because it'll be a little harder to do so without UE4 already on the Wii U.

The only thing I hate about threads like that is the fact that they illicit absolutely no valuable discussion. Most posts are just hit-and-run posts.

Well, it is a news thread, sometimes, it's hard to make posts other than "cool" or "eww" or something.

 

[EloquentM]

The topic is one that is hard to have a conversation on. Its a good thread for cullings though. As I did point out though in the thread if what Geoff says is true then it was a private conversation that he revealed publiclly because Mike made no such statement at GDC to the public

Mike wouldn't say anything official if he wanted to. whether UE4 was running on wii u or not I'm sure they would've still put him on an NDA as not to undermine their new console.

what can you do, it's news, and news deserves threads.

Its not news, its simply hearsay from a tweet.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yesterday I already started contemplating whether or not I should buy a PS4 or upgrade my PC. I spoke with people in the PC gaming thread and apparently my options are limited unless I really shell out, which would cost about 300-400 when it's all said and done.

Choices choices. Luckily I have years to choose because if I do decide to get another console it won't be at launch, it'll be when they build some sort of library or something most likely, and that's probably 2 years away. Launch next year, 1 year to build library/get things rolling. Lots of time to decide. Also by then we should get a decent idea of the Wii U output (pre-other consoles releasing).

 

[antonz]

Yesterday I already started contemplating whether or not I should buy a PS4 or upgrade my PC. I spoke with people in the PC gaming thread and apparently my options are limited unless I really shell out, which would cost about 300-400 when it's all said and done.

Choices choices. Luckily I have years to choose because if I do decide to get another console it won't be at launch, it'll be when they build some sort of library or something most likely, and that's probably 2 years away. Launch next year, 1 year to build library/get things rolling. Lots of time to decide. Also by then we should get a decent idea of the Wii U output (pre-other consoles releasing).

You can do pretty reasonable on the pc side though AMD shitting the bed has lifted alot of pressure off Intel. 2500K is still a fantastic CPU for instance

 

[filler]

No that's not the case.

Bonus!

 

[abasm]

And most rumors suggesting a conservative leap are most likely being trolled with false info.

But it follows conventional logic. The loss leader approach is busted--consoles are cracked far faster than they are emulated, ergo it makes more sense to profit on the hardware from day one. Example: Sony's responses to piracy have been far more extreme than Nintendo's because piracy more directly jeopardizes their bottom line.

Sony is dire financial straits, and cannot afford to make another big (and clumsy) leap as they did with the PS3. Microsoft might be able to suffer the brunt of another loss leader, but they don't HAVE to if Sony can't compete. Furthermore, I highly doubt that general consumers will notice the difference between late 360 and early "Durango" games. There won't be any initial differences as noticeable as the jump to HD...unless they unveil a markedly improved version of Kinect or some other new method of input. Neither of those things would require more power.

I just don't see how a huge generational leap helps anyone. Sure, WE would like it, but they can't afford it.

 

[Linkhero1]

Yesterday I already started contemplating whether or not I should buy a PS4 or upgrade my PC. I spoke with people in the PC gaming thread and apparently my options are limited unless I really shell out, which would cost about 300-400 when it's all said and done.

Choices choices. Luckily I have years to choose because if I do decide to get another console it won't be at launch, it'll be when they build some sort of library or something most likely, and that's probably 2 years away. Launch next year, 1 year to build library/get things rolling. Lots of time to decide. Also by then we should get a decent idea of the Wii U output (pre-other consoles releasing).

PC would probably be a better choice imo. I'm considering either building a PC or getting the 720 if the Wii U won't be getting some third party games that may interest me.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

You can do pretty reasonable on the pc side though AMD shitting the bed has lifted alot of pressure off Intel. 2500K is still a fantastic CPU for instance

PC would probably be a better choice imo. I'm considering either building a PC or getting the 720 if the Wii U won't be getting some third party games that may interest me.

yeah but if I have to buy a new CPU that'll put me at almost 300 bucks alone, throw in the video card (decent one for 100-200), I'll probably need a PSU to support it, and bam that already puts me in a hole, whereas a console would be a one time set and forget.

I built my PC back when the intel q9550 was near the tops in performance lol. 4800 series card, 450W psu. Since then so much has changed no more low priced high performance cards with little power usage.

 

[User Name Here]

As I said awhile ago, I'm fairly certain Microsoft already has plans to use UE4 for several internally developed titles. Epic were in talks of getting more grunt out of the hardware, and did not state UE4 wouldn't work without said grunt.

UE4 will run on Microsoft's next system. I bet my position as a moderator on it.

Let's hope it's only for their titles.

*crosses fingers*

 

[Linkhero1]

yeah but if I have to buy a new CPU that'll put me at almost 300 bucks alone, throw in the video card (decent one for 100-200), I'll probably need a PSU to support it, and bam that already puts me in a hole, whereas a console would be a one time set and forget.

I built my PC back when the intel q9550 was near the tops in performance lol. 4800 series card, 450W psu. Since then so much has changed no more low end high performance cards with little power usage.

That's true, but I it also depends on the price of the 720/PS4 compared to upgrading your PC. In the end you do what you think is best.

 

[Oddduck]

Sony is dire financial straits, and cannot afford to make another big (and clumsy) leap as they did with the PS3. Microsoft might be able to suffer the brunt of another loss leader, but they don't HAVE to if Sony can't compete. Furthermore, I highly doubt that general consumers will notice the difference between late 360 and early "Durango" games. There won't be any initial differences as noticeable as the jump to HD...unless they unveil a markedly improved version of Kinect or some other new method of input. Neither of those things would require more power.

I just don't see how a huge generational leap helps anyone. Sure, WE would like it, but they can't afford it.

Based on what Iherre said, it seems like PS4 is still a big leap over Wii U, even if it's not as powerful as Durango.

I think Sony is able to get decent power without spending tons of money.

I don't know why people think this is impossible to do. You don't have to create a super beast of a machine to have a decently powerful and affordable system.

Technology goes down in costs over time.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

That's true, but I it also depends on the price of the 720/PS4 compared to upgrading your PC. In the end you do what you think is best.

indeed, like I said, it wouldn't even be at launch, it would be a year later at the earliest so something I got is time.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Yeah. It was weird, because the way people were talking made it sound like Nintendo had sent out kits with a noteworthy performance boost. Like they'd flipped an important switch. But the numbers didn't back that up. Just typical optimisation, squeezing out a couple of extra frames.

But, couldn't a few frames make a big difference?

Say, the bench mark runs at 20fps... with the tweaks, its boosted to 24fps ( four frames )... that would translate to a 20% increase in performance.

 

[Linkhero1]

And I stand by that.

Your stance is based off the specs you saw, correct? I'm just a bit worried because lherre compared 720/PS4 to high-end PC and Wii U to low-end PC.

indeed, like I said, it wouldn't even be at launch, it would be a year later at the earliest so something I got is time.

Yup. We still have a year until next E3. It's going to be an interesting road for Nintendo.

 

[bgassassin]

Hmm, I wonder if it's simply not powerful enough, or they just don't want to port it.

I think the downside is, next gen will probably have quite a few games that could realistically be ported to the Wii U, but now probably won't, because it'll be a little harder to do so without UE4 already on the Wii U.

It would be a feature issue, not a power issue.

But it follows conventional logic. The loss leader approach is busted--consoles are cracked far faster than they are emulated, ergo it makes more sense to profit on the hardware from day one. Example: Sony's responses to piracy have been far more extreme than Nintendo's because piracy more directly jeopardizes their bottom line.

Sony is dire financial straits, and cannot afford to make another big (and clumsy) leap as they did with the PS3. Microsoft might be able to suffer the brunt of another loss leader, but they don't HAVE to if Sony can't compete. Furthermore, I highly doubt that general consumers will notice the difference between late 360 and early "Durango" games. There won't be any initial differences as noticeable as the jump to HD...unless they unveil a markedly improved version of Kinect or some other new method of input. Neither of those things would require more power.

I just don't see how a huge generational leap helps anyone. Sure, WE would like it, but they can't afford it.

I agree, but conventional logic seems to have been thrown out of the window. Though I think Sony's hardware will be powerful and financially reasonable for them.

 

[Lonely1]

I think Sony is able to get decent power without spending tons of money.


I don't know why people think this is impossible to do. You don't have to create a super beast of a machine to have a decently powerful and affordable system.

Ps4 is releasing at least a year latter. It will likely ship on a bigger, noisier, box too.

 

[Terrell]

No one post in that thread, PLEASE.

Too late.

As I said awhile ago, I'm fairly certain Microsoft already has plans to use UE4 for several internally developed titles. Epic were in talks of getting more grunt out of the hardware, and did not state UE4 wouldn't work without said grunt.

UE4 will run on Microsoft's next system. I bet my position as a moderator on it.

UE4 currently can only run on a multi-GPU setup or a Kepler. Considering Microsoft is only a year out from their next console, we're going to be expecting another mammoth power-sucking $350+ sold-at-a-loss console from them then?

 

[AzaK]

http://cbe002.chat.mibbit.com/?server=studio64.yi.org&channel=#nintengaf

Cheers

 

[Oddduck]

Ps4 is releasing at least a year latter. It will likely ship on a bigger, noisier, box too.

You don't know when PS4 will ship. That's all just rumor.

Sony could easily debut PS4 at next E3. Sony knows that 360 getting a one year head start was bad for PS3.

PS2 succeeded because it released one year ahead of the competition.

 

[antonz]

Too late.



UE4 currently can only run on a multi-GPU setup or a Kepler. Considering Microsoft is only a year out from their next console, we're going to be expecting another mammoth power-sucking $350+ sold-at-a-loss console from them then?

I expect them to take a loss for sure which is why they are street testing contract programs with the 360 now to see if they can get that for the 720

 

[bgassassin]

Your stance is based off the specs you saw, correct? I'm just a bit worried because lherre compared 720/PS4 to high-end PC and Wii U to low-end PC.

Well lherre didn't quite say that. I said high-end vs mid-range. He then called Wii U low-end, and then I said only if we call PS4 mid-range. From there he said PS4 wasn't final. So essentially it still works it way back around to what has been said before.

 

[Lonely1]

You don't know when PS4 will ship. That's all just rumor.

Sony could easily debut PS4 at next E3. Sony knows that 360 getting a one year head start was bad for PS3.

So, you believe the Ps4 will ship by this holidays? Ok, there's no use of discussing with you then. Since you are basing your argument on an scenario that I consider implausible.

 

[Glorified G]

yeah but if I have to buy a new CPU that'll put me at almost 300 bucks alone, throw in the video card (decent one for 100-200), I'll probably need a PSU to support it, and bam that already puts me in a hole, whereas a console would be a one time set and forget.

I built my PC back when the intel q9550 was near the tops in performance lol. 4800 series card, 450W psu. Since then so much has changed no more low priced high performance cards with little power usage.

PC gaming is all about getting the top performance, 1080p etc, if your not picky about that and just want to get one upgrade, play next gen games decently and call it a day, might as well buy ps4/720. Most likely both consoles will have a 8-10 year cycle.