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Tim Burton on Why 'Miss Peregrine's Home For Peculiar Children' is Mostly White

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P

purseowner

Member
Krejlooc said:
blaxploitation is a genre built entirely off of tokenism. Considering blaxploitation a legitimate film genre in the first place is supporting cultural tokenism.
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Plenty of film academics would disagree with you. The genre is very much part of film history now, with only homages and pastiches remaining, but was in many ways counterculture and built out of necessity when there was only tokenism avaliable.

That said, Burton's comments are utter tripe and he clearly misunderstands the importance and impact of the blaxploitation genre and why it belongs in the past.
 
2

2MF

Member
Oersted said:
Okay, who of you made 2MF believe we didn't let him?
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By "let him" I mean there's no point and nothing to win from shaming people about their creative choices. But I see the thread is more about some interview he gave. than the actual movie... Maybe famous people should just learn to shut up when it comes to these topics, unfortunately :)
 
T

Toxi

Banned
120v said:
adding PoC to Brady Bunch for the sake of PoC's being there makes the characters token. i'm with him on that's more offensivee, assuming that's what he's getting at
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Show adds new white character: "Oh cool."

Show adds new black character: "I will not stand for this token nonsense! I would have been just fine with this character if they were white, but this forced diversity is pandering and offensive!"
 
1

120v

Member
Krejlooc said:
Ah, whataboutism. Never fails to show up in these threads.
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blaxploitation has a huge following among people who grew up in that era, had a huge influence on modern pulp. it was before my time and i never watched those movies so i'm not going to bat for them... but chastising those who think they're "great" is casting a pretty wide net
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Toxi said:
Show adds new white character: "Oh cool."

Show adds new black character: "I will not stand for this token nonsense! I would have been just fine with this character if they were white, but this forced diversity is pandering and offensive!"
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They don't even see it coming right out of them.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
Lucky Seven said:
Honestly, I used to think this and still sort of do. Almost everbody I met agrees with this.
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image.php


What is it with frogs and racism now?
 
T

timetokill

Banned
I feel like he was tryyyyyying to say that putting in "token" characters of other races is insulting but

uh

i mean i'm trying to be generous here, but ah, fuck it
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
purseowner said:
Plenty of film academics would disagree with you. The genre is very much part of film history now, with only homages and pastiches remaining, but was in many ways counterculture and built out of necessity when there was only tokenism avaliable.
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LOL no they wouldn't, your own reply doesn't even disagree with the notion that blaxploitation wasn't cultural tokenism. Of course it's a part of history, nobody is denying it took place, nor that it ingrained a cultural identity for black people to wider america.

It's about as legitimate as birth of a nation. The original one. Yes, that's legitimate film too. But it's not something to be celebrated. blaxploitation is ripe for homage, as basically nothing is off limits in post-modernism. And it has an obvious cultural cachet. But blaxploitation is not something to be celebrated at face value, and certainly not in the ways Tim Burton is doing so. You shouldn't be looking at blaxploitation for social diversity cues.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
2MF said:
As usual, what I think here is: it's his movie, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.

If he wants to make everyone blue, or pink, or white or black or grey with strawberry patterns all over, let him.
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Thats not the point here at all.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
120v said:
blaxploitation has a huge following among people who grew up in that era, had a huge influence on modern pulp. it was before my time and i never watched those movies so i'm not going to bat for them... but chastising those who think they're "great" is casting a pretty wide net
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This sounds very much like the same type of argument that the confederate flag is about southern pride. Cool, some people dig this genre of film made to exploit an entire race. Neat, the prevalent stereotyped images of black people that the genre helped flustered still infest film today. None of this is to be celebrated.
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
timetokill said:
I feel like he was tryyyyyying to say that putting in "token" characters of other races is insulting but
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That's exactly what he was saying, but the token defense makes no sense because:

A)Allegedly the book already has a diverse cast of characters, if true, then those characters would not have been tokens, putting them would be, you know, being faithful.

B)He opened the statement by saying that he, a white man, felt offended in behalf of POC when he saw tokens used, which destroys any point he would have made, like, fuck you burton, you can't tell what people of color should be offended by.
 
D

Domcorleone

Member
. I remember back when I was a child watching The Brady Bunch and they started to get all politically correct. Like, OK, let’s have an Asian child and a black. I used to get more offended by that than just... I grew up watching blaxploitation movies, right? And I said, that’s great. I didn’t go like, OK, there should be more white people in these movies
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Whooooooshhh

I was with him up until this part. Gross. It's like these types of white people read off of talking points.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
what is it about big shot hollywood directors and making up bullshit excuses for why they wont cast minorities

there was ridley scott who thinks people are coming to see a movie starring joel edgerton. who the fuck is joel edgerton. and now burton here thinks casting minorities would be tokenism. man fuck these guys.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
120v said:
adding PoC to Brady Bunch for the sake of PoC's being there makes the characters token. i'm with him on that's more offensive, assuming that's what he's getting at



then i assume you find Tarantino worrisome too?
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I guess you're right, preventing non-white people from getting acting jobs IS better than giving token roles (AKA, something subjective that very often is called token for no other reason than because the character is not white).
 
M

Moonkid

Member
Man, this really illustrates how ingrained white as the default race is and to what extent people will defend it. If you don't have someone that cares and understands the issue of diversity, we end up with movies and statements like these.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Good thing I've already been ignoring Tim Burton for nearly 20 years now.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
2MF said:
As usual, what I think here is: it's his movie, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.

If he wants to make everyone blue, or pink, or white or black or grey with strawberry patterns all over, let him.
Click to expand...

At what point, from a moral perspective, does this slowly morph into "it's his restaurant he can serve whoever he wants"?
.
 
B

Brianimaniac

Banned
Krejlooc said:
This sounds very much like the same type of argument that the confederate flag is about southern pride. Cool, some people dig this genre of film made to exploit an entire race. Neat, the prevalent stereotyped images of black people that the genre helped flustered still infest film today. None of this is to be celebrated.
Click to expand...
So me liking a lot of blaxploitation movies is the same as flying a confederate flag? WTF? That's bullshit.
 
S

Slayven

Member
WrenchNinja said:
what is it about big shot hollywood directors and making up bullshit excuses for why they wont cast minorities

there was ridley scott who thinks people are coming to see a movie starring joel edgerton. who the fuck is joel edgerton. and now burton here thinks casting minorities would be tokenism. man fuck these guys.
Click to expand...

They live in a bubble where people tell them their shit doesn't stink
 
M

Mr. X

Member
"I didn't really think about it" would've been more accurate and disrespectful than "I default to white unless it's mentioned, if I didn't it would just be too PC".

Blaxplotation is a response to lack of blacks in film and tokenism.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
A Link to the Past said:
I guess you're right, preventing non-white people from getting acting jobs IS better than giving token roles (AKA, something subjective that very often is called token for no other reason than because the character is not white).
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I'm sure a lot of these people would call Leuitenant Uhura an offensive token character.

She was so offensive to minorities, Martin Luther King Jr personally begged Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show and called himself her greatest fan.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Tim Burton said:
I remember back when I was a child watching The Brady Bunch and they started to get all politically correct. Like, OK, let’s have an Asian child and a black. I used to get more offended by that than just... I grew up watching blaxploitation movies, right?
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Burton seems to be unaware of his own internal bias; that white is the "default" and anything else requires a special reason. I find it really disappointing considering Burton's earlier works often championed and celebrated outcasts and those outside the mainstream.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Toxi said:
I'm sure a lot of these people would call Leuitenant Uhura an offensive token character.

She was so offensive to minorities, Martin Luther King Jr personally begged Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show and called himself her greatest fan.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is diversity is selling, making money hand over fist.
 
C

Choppasmith

Member
Dumb question but, I'm not familiar with The Brady Bunch (I know of it, but never watched it), DID they add POC characters to the show or was he just giving a hypothetical scenario? I'm just trying to understand if he was getting mad at a poorly written character/s on that show or if he's just assuming adding a POC character would instantly label them an awful token character.

It sucks either way, and this is the first I heard about the diversity of the source material being drastically reduced for the film. man I was already lukewarm toward the film, definitely passing on it now.
 
M

mlclmtckr

Banned
I feel bad for Tim; he used to be a real talent and now he makes some of the worst big-budget movies of the current century.

I mean, fuck him for this statement, but still. Must be really frustrating to watch your talent just run through your fingers like water.
 
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