Well these are the from the curriculum that was supposedly used so judge for yourself:
Mother Jones
Gawker
This is awful. Those girls being told that it doesn't matter because he only abused their bodies. Sickening.
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TLC cancels 19 Kids and Counting after oldest Kid admits to molesting children
- Thread starter pgtl_10
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This is awful. Those girls being told that it doesn't matter because he only abused their bodies. Sickening.
That's another layer of tragedy if this was the counseling given to the victims. "If abused was not at fault". Like holy shit.
You joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if this whole community is fucked up and hiding a shit ton of skeletons in their closets.
And that curriculum is no joke. Exact same thing happened to my cousin, she was molested by two of her brothers. It was all handled in the family and church. The brothers went on with normal lives, she became a train wreck, alcoholic, drug user and committed suicide by jumping out of a hotel room window. It's completely fucked up the way molestation is treated, handled and not reported.
Damn. That's awful.
Abuse victims rarely get justice, but you'd hope they at least get proper care, counseling, and treatment. And not that home-schooled victim blaming garbage.
mightynine
Member
That "If victim was not at fault" sentence makes me want to punch something.
Anybody with 19 kids should lose their children and be arrested for child abuse if you ask me.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Good on their part. The family has enough money by now to live comfortably. And at the end of the day the son can always remember they and they alone were the reason a good thing got put on the chopping block.
SturokBGD
Member
You're shitting me.
I'll think about forgiving him when he stops trying to ruin the lives of my LGBT friends with him and his parents sick agendas.
These people are not Christians. God is not with them. The whole damn thing is a lie.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Fixed that for you
Officerrob
Banned
It's almost like there are statistics shown that that does not work...
But fuck the boy, what about the victims? Those girls needed help, but instead mommy and daddy thought it was best to keep the person who had molested them under the same roof. My issue with this story has very little to do with the boy and very much to do with his parents
Velcro Fly
Member
Another hyper religious hypocrite.
Cancel the show for sure.
Cancel the show for sure.
The One and Done
Member
way more
Member
There are statistics that show that prison works better than love and compassion?
somebodyelseathome
Banned
From all the posts I read it seems the girls didn't receive equal treatment. Also with that little chart that was posted earlier seems there wasn't an option to blame the situation/cause of the events on the boy responsible.
For me what causes bad stuff to happen are evil spirits/devil, people, and the individual themselves.
The people in the bible weren't perfect. (Just like how all of us make mistakes) They made mistakes that they regretted like David did before he met Basheba that's explained in this article that I barley found out about yesterday. (sorry for any misspelling)
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0927.
Another example is Paul who persecuted Christians. He even dragged them out of their homes with his own hands.
The thing is, it's important to forgive others when they do us wrong or else we can't truely move on. One example of a person forgiving another is this boy in Germany forgiving this person who killed his mother.
Voice of the Martyrs - Testimony of Pastor Richar : https://youtu.be/j_Sij_EYed8
God wants us to forgive others, spread the gospel, and not be hypocrites. It's that simple.
For me what causes bad stuff to happen are evil spirits/devil, people, and the individual themselves.
The people in the bible weren't perfect. (Just like how all of us make mistakes) They made mistakes that they regretted like David did before he met Basheba that's explained in this article that I barley found out about yesterday. (sorry for any misspelling)
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0927.
Another example is Paul who persecuted Christians. He even dragged them out of their homes with his own hands.
The thing is, it's important to forgive others when they do us wrong or else we can't truely move on. One example of a person forgiving another is this boy in Germany forgiving this person who killed his mother.
Voice of the Martyrs - Testimony of Pastor Richar : https://youtu.be/j_Sij_EYed8
God wants us to forgive others, spread the gospel, and not be hypocrites. It's that simple.
Officerrob
Banned
It reaks of arrogance that's for sure.
What the fuck is this?
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I thought it was a glimpse into the mind of Christan Extremists.
But, that first line... I don't know.
...Are you honestly saying "love and compassion" (and nothing else) is the only appropriate response to someone who's admitted to molesting underage girls - which is a horrendous crime, by the way, since you seem to have completely forgotten that?
If someone admits to pedophilic tendencies, sure, show them "love and compassion"... and get them some serious counseling, and keep them the fuck away from children as much as possible.
If someone goes so far to act on their desires and actually molests and sexually abuses children... um, show them "love and compassion" if you want, but also throw them in prison for their crimes and protect the rest of society from them.
Maybe you subscribe to the thinking of the Catholic Church, which for decades allowed priests to sexually abuse and rape thousands of young boys and girls because they claimed priests needed only God's "love and compassion" to combat and overcome their pedophilic tendencies (and because they didn't want the the police involved and the appearance of scandal). The end result was the Church enabling and shielding serial abusers and rapists who were never exposed or punished, and who therefore ended up ruining thousands of young lives, as a direct result of the Church's inaction.
So I guess if you're looking for "statistics", you could always talk to those priests' victims about how you think "love and compassion" is better protection against a serial rapist than prison.
He was an incredibly sheltered 13-14 year old going through puberty. Are you calling him a serial rapist in particular or just speaking in general?
It's not necessarily pedophilia for someone that young to do that; so there is potentially a chance for rehabilitation.
Red Mage
Member
Starting to? The guy is a sleaze bag. Has been for years.
Do what? I think that your ire would be best directed towards fans of the show, not Christians.
Holy cow at that "therapy." People who twist Scripture like that piss me off.
Uh..... i think is cristal clear.
The deluded christian mental gymnastics to justify an attrocity?
Millions of teenage boys go through puberty every year, and yet the vast majority of them somehow manage not to engage in non-consensual sexual contact with underage girls and their own sisters. Teenage boys are capable of having sex, and of sexual assault, and they're old enough to know what they're doing and to be held responsible for their actions. Just because the Duggars are extremely religious doesn't make them simpletons incapable of critical thought, who don't understand the concepts of consent or unwanted sexual contact.
Sorry, but that sort of talk ("he was going through puberty") smacks of "boys will be boys", "what can you do?", which tries to justify or excuse abusive behavior and sexual assault against girls and women as natural or inevitable because "the hormones made them do it".
And I wasn't referring to Duggar specifically when talking about serial rapists, but let's not forget that he molested FIVE girls - it wasn't a one-time thing; he did it repeatedly against different victims. He's a serial molester by definition. Sure, there's a chance he's not a "true" pedophile and some court-ordered counseling and therapy would work instead of juvenile detention... but let a judge and case worker decide that after the authorities have been notified; don't cover it up and hope that God's love will sort things out. Because if "love and compassion" aren't enough, some other girl is going to suffer for it, all because you wanted to give the boy a second chance (because white Christian boys always get the benefit of the doubt). That, after all, was the same tack taken by the Catholic Church.
LightofRohan
Member
Even though I really want to.
I'm out... discussing anything here is a recipe for disaster.
I'm out... discussing anything here is a recipe for disaster.
CadetMahoney
Member
pretty much./
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
TLC stands for "The Learning Channel" right? Man, what a fall from grace. If old boy gets a pass well then time to open the juvie floodgates of all the sinners who found the grace of god.
What the fuck am I reading? That's mental. This is not normal. This is not part of growing up. Maybe where you lived was a super special case, but not everywhere else.
Meaningless statement. Adults are dumb as shit too. So what?
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I'm no psychologist, but what more can someone say to battle it. It is your body and it will heal. It's just our bodies, so who you are is not destroyed. I feel like that can be a good thing to say to someone who was abused. You don't want to hide it like a hidden monster. You don't gain influences from it. Look at the statistic where men are more Iikely to molest if they were molested and women are more prone to commit suicide. I don't know the specifics. I'm just talking about this. It may seem like BS to think God solves everything because people need answers and support.
What he did has no forgiveness in my book.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Not since like 2002. It was a very different channel before the reality craze. It was actually very educational before the changes.
Well these are the from the curriculum that was supposedly used so judge for yourself:
Mother Jones
Gawker
For my own piece of mind and sanity I will pretend that is a absurdly fake mock up.
A violation like this damages more than your body. And it's clear that these girls didn't get real counseling, because a real counselor would have been legally obligated to tell the police. This bullshit sweeps their pain under the rug because their religion believes their soul is undamaged.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I agree with you. If they posed a threat to the person they're obligated by law to do something about it, right? The councilor and some lazy religious people kept him from getting arrested or investigated sooner. I agree, God is not a rescue device from people you can very well punish under law. The religious overtone is held in a lot of organizations that help treat abused victims.
Isn't this guy married too? I wonder if he told her before they tied the knot. I can't imagine she's in their for love. Money must be pouring in like no other, well not anymore.
My cousin has a degree to become a Christian councilor and some part of me thinks she'll use God as this ultimate escape goat for everything.
Wag
Member
Birth control is wrong?
I don't get why they went to a State Trooper of all people. There are plenty of actual experts in childhood development who could actually help Josh and his sisters, yet they take him to a Statie? To do what? That's seems strange to me. Then there's how that cop just happened to be heavily into kiddie porn... I probably shouldn't speculate on what may or may not be coincidental, so I'll just stop here.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Darn, I got in late before the cop porn stuff. Still, the guy got off because someone else loved the same stuff.
No charges? Did they take him to BK when they were done talking?
No charges? Did they take him to BK when they were done talking?
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
It's gon b k
Smiles and Cries
Member
wow
somebodyelseathome
Banned
I'm not justifying his actions. I don't support the behavior/actions he did.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
It's obviously not what is best, but what is best and legal frameworks are different. I'm not sure what needs to be done here/situations like this.
What the kids were taught about the abuse was wrong. Does that mean the parents should be jailed? How could this be enforceable in most cases? They didn't exactly hide it, but their manner of being truthful was fucked up in a few ways and went nowhere. Is there anything that can even be done, from the angle of legal frameworks, to prevent that from happening? It was like bad luck here with how it was handled by authorities.
What the kids were taught about the abuse was wrong. Does that mean the parents should be jailed? How could this be enforceable in most cases? They didn't exactly hide it, but their manner of being truthful was fucked up in a few ways and went nowhere. Is there anything that can even be done, from the angle of legal frameworks, to prevent that from happening? It was like bad luck here with how it was handled by authorities.
Damn.
Don't be so harsh. They have a cell tower which brings 5K a month alone. They have done disgraceful things, but having 19 children is not one of them.
way more
Member
It's not simply bad luck. These people are in a fringe cult that has misogyny as a cornerstone of its faith.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/09/22/vyckie_garrison_on_escaping_quiverfull.html
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Oh.
I do have a problem with things like that. People just making up their own BS "culture" and raising kids in it. Kids aren't your property, they are your responsibility. When a whole fucking movement of people are so clearly failing in that responsibility, yeah something should be done.
And if you need proof that it's abuse and not just religious differences, people have done the studies and worked with thousands of affected individuals and identified damaging traits:
http://journeyfree.org/rts/
https://www.freedomofmind.com/
I do have a problem with things like that. People just making up their own BS "culture" and raising kids in it. Kids aren't your property, they are your responsibility. When a whole fucking movement of people are so clearly failing in that responsibility, yeah something should be done.
And if you need proof that it's abuse and not just religious differences, people have done the studies and worked with thousands of affected individuals and identified damaging traits:
http://journeyfree.org/rts/
https://www.freedomofmind.com/
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
There is a world of difference between making fun of someone being molested and giving someone shit about being a molester.
Obliterator
Member
The most disturbing thing about all this is everyone talking about how this sicko apologized and has changed.
What about the fucking girls he molested? Why the fuck is none of the media asking if they are ok? They could carry some heavy scars and trama from this guy but all anyone cares about is how long ago it was and how he's sorry now.
What about the victims?
What about the fucking girls he molested? Why the fuck is none of the media asking if they are ok? They could carry some heavy scars and trama from this guy but all anyone cares about is how long ago it was and how he's sorry now.
What about the victims?
The Chosen One
Member
Well that didn't take long for Huckabee to destroy any viability he had as a presidential candidate. That bubble he lives in must be reinforced with 6 feet of concrete.
The liberal side of me wants to say a 14 year-olds life shouldn't be completely destroyed without a chance of rehabilitation. I'd like to think that if he had a chance to live a normal teenage life with regular friends and girlfriends, not in an isolated pseudo religious cult, just maybe he wouldn't be molesting his younger sisters and maybe his teenage hormones would have been directed at meeting/kissing/touching consenting girls his own age like most teens. Maybe the bizarre Duggar family environment was not conducive for normal teenage behavior and the parents are to blame for subjecting all their kids to this.
But then the realist part of me says, the police report and information that the Duggar's admitted to so far is probably just the tip of the ice-berg. The parents have tried to control the situation so much from the start that it's likely the situation was far worse than what's currently known, as usually is the case with these things. Also the fact that so little attention is being paid to the victims I find very disturbing. I'm getting the impression no real counseling was done and the victims were just told to "forget" what happened since the perpetrator had asked for "forgiveness".
Also if TLC wasn't televising this stupid show, then justice might have happened sooner since the victims and members of the community wouldn't have been afraid to step forward and the Duggers would have had less clout to sweep it under the rug.
The liberal side of me wants to say a 14 year-olds life shouldn't be completely destroyed without a chance of rehabilitation. I'd like to think that if he had a chance to live a normal teenage life with regular friends and girlfriends, not in an isolated pseudo religious cult, just maybe he wouldn't be molesting his younger sisters and maybe his teenage hormones would have been directed at meeting/kissing/touching consenting girls his own age like most teens. Maybe the bizarre Duggar family environment was not conducive for normal teenage behavior and the parents are to blame for subjecting all their kids to this.
But then the realist part of me says, the police report and information that the Duggar's admitted to so far is probably just the tip of the ice-berg. The parents have tried to control the situation so much from the start that it's likely the situation was far worse than what's currently known, as usually is the case with these things. Also the fact that so little attention is being paid to the victims I find very disturbing. I'm getting the impression no real counseling was done and the victims were just told to "forget" what happened since the perpetrator had asked for "forgiveness".
Also if TLC wasn't televising this stupid show, then justice might have happened sooner since the victims and members of the community wouldn't have been afraid to step forward and the Duggers would have had less clout to sweep it under the rug.
Learn2read
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