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Tom Clancy's The Division |OT2| The Wolves of Wall Street

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VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
Sounds like you've been relying on me to snipe the snipers before you even run up the stairs :p

Didn't help I had a green bag on lol.

I did that glitch on Lexington and cleared the whole boss area and killed the boss before the other 3 people got to the 3rd wave in the basement..
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
yup, also in Destiny you get strange coins from just playing the game, and every Friday you get to spend those on exotics so it was an incentive to try different stuff in the game (crucible, strikes, raids, nightfall etc.) and that's why people keep on playing hoping they will get a Hawkmoon or Gallahorn by different means
I guess Phoenix Credits were supposed to be that, but given how there's so much RNG on the gear, you really can't count on the vendor selling something useful. Certainly the chance of a HE M1A with good rolls on talents seems like an impossibility. (Just like Xur selling the Gjallahorn I guess) :p.
 

Alucrid

Banned
I guess Phoenix Credits were supposed to be that, but given how there's so much RNG on the gear, you really can't count on the vendor selling something useful. Certainly the chance of a HE M1A with good rolls on talents seems like an impossibility. (Just like Xur selling the Gjallahorn I guess) :p.

at least the ghorn had a few avenues to drop, even if all of them were slim. aside from vendors i've never even seen a HE weapon drop. don't even know where they would. i guess challenge missions, but all i get is crap yellow gear there.
 
I think the difference is that Destiny already had the roadblocks in place right from the start. So you had to do all those daily bounties because you needed to level up your weapons and armor. And there were those Exotic bounties to do that had you run around doing things like open chests on Mars or get fusion rifle kills in a Nightfall.

Division basically came down to grinding crafting materials to roll weapons/gear, and people basically ran out of things to do in less than two weeks. They're trying to slow people down after the fact and obviously it's backfiring.
I think this is exactly right. Every patch has had exploit fixes and/or economy nerfs. Problem being that in a loot game, the player base immediately finds another way to increase efficiency. This latest nuclear nerf is trying to close the barn door after the animals escaped.

They should have been more subtle - better to have some players with 'too much gear' rather than alienating everyone.

I am a new level 30 and the grind feels like it will be excruciating. Not sure I'll stick around despite my enjoyment of the game.


Maybe if they add high-end drops to the daily missions or something else that feels more immediately rewarding.
 

WITHE1982

Member
Hamish on stream: "People have too much gear right now"

...and with that I'm done. I was getting kinda burnt out with the end-game anyway TBH but after 111h relevantly enjoyable hours in the game It's time for me to move on. I've promised the game to a friend of mine once I was done with it so I'm now passing the torch (and grind) onto him.

I just don't like the idea of having to farm mats for 5-6 hours (which is 2-3 days of play time for me at the minute) to craft a single weapon or armour, only to get a complete trash roll and have to start all over again.

Thanks for the ride Massive but I know through experience when to bow out, and that time is now.
 

Kabouter

Member
More brilliance from Hamish:

"Having perfect gear is not a necessity."

Does he even pay attention to the game at all?

I don't think having perfect gear is a necessity, but having very good gear is if you don't want to be everybody's bitch in the DZ, and getting that takes forever. Getting perfect gear is not likely in a human lifetime right now, let alone after the crafting nerf.
 

The1Ski

Member
Hamish on stream: "People have too much gear right now"

I hate this statement.

SOME people have too much gear right now, sure. But people that only have time to play casually are fighting to keep up! I think the majority of players are only able to get an hour or two in per night, tops.

The small percentage of players that are getting 4-5+ hours per day have skewed the perception of loot availability. A nerf to crafting negatively affects the majority of players exponentially.

I totally understand that it's tough to find the right balance and a fix isn't obvious. The changes still suck though.
 

catspit

Member
More brilliance from Hamish:

"Having perfect gear is not a necessity."

Does he even pay attention to the game at all?

I get what he is kind of saying. I have a HE M1A with Okay rolls, but it's nothing like VE3TRO's.. Still it's not a night/day difference and still better than the purple version that was for sale.. This applies more to PVE however in my opinion.. In PVP a player that has better gear by 10-15% margin will probably fair better.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
I don't think having perfect gear is a necessity, but having very good gear is if you don't want to be everybody's bitch in the DZ, and getting that takes forever. Getting perfect gear is not likely in a human lifetime right now, let alone after the crafting nerf.

40k HE per perfect roll on avg.

ezpz
 

Alucrid

Banned
I don't think having perfect gear is a necessity, but having very good gear is if you don't want to be everybody's bitch in the DZ, and getting that takes forever. Getting perfect gear is not likely in a human lifetime right now, let alone after the crafting nerf.

i'm at the point where i'm not even getting slight upgrades. mostly downgrades or useless sidegrades, unless i farmed mats for hours and crafted tens of HE items...which i don't want to do.
 

Serick

Married Member
i'm at the point where i'm not even getting slight upgrades. mostly downgrades or useless sidegrades, unless i farmed mats for hours and crafted tens of HE items...which i don't want to do.

That's the problem I'm having. Played for 4 days without a single drop/crafted item that even slightly resembled an upgrade.. and my stats aren't "good" they're "passable".
 
I don't think having perfect gear is a necessity, but having very good gear is if you don't want to be everybody's bitch in the DZ, and getting that takes forever. Getting perfect gear is not likely in a human lifetime right now, let alone after the crafting nerf.

I get what he is kind of saying. I have a HE M1A with Okay rolls, but it's nothing like VE3TRO's.. Still it's not a night/day difference and still better than the purple version that was for sale.. This applies more to PVE however in my opinion.. In PVP a player that has better gear by 10-15% margin will probably fair better.
Both well said. I think perhaps I equated "perfect" with "useful", but that's not what he was meaning.
 

Axial

Member
Go out of bounds, glitch through building from the other side of the DZ, invite friend, disband, go rogue on friend, let him revive by support station, let rogue timer run out, rinse and repeat. There are also places where you can glitch through walls from within the DZ and attack other players and they can't shot you back, same shit. It's a 'safer' way of farming DZ xp.
 

catspit

Member
i'm at the point where i'm not even getting slight upgrades. mostly downgrades or useless sidegrades, unless i farmed mats for hours and crafted tens of HE items...which i don't want to do.

This is where I am at.. Very slight adjustments to stats with hours of time put in. Only way right now for me to improve my gear is division tech. Division tech is a whole other issue.. It is a large time sink to only roll 1-2 items maybe after lots of playtime. I haven't played for 3ish days now and feel fine..
 

Frenden

Banned
This is where I am at.. Very slight adjustments to stats with hours of time put in. Only way right now for me to improve my gear is division tech. Division tech is a whole other issue.. It is a large time sink to only roll 1-2 items maybe after lots of playtime. I haven't played for 3ish days now and feel fine..

Same boat. It's been about a week for me. My gear is good, but my primary has crap rolls. I rolled more than thirty vectors and never got a decent one.

My stats are good, but my DPS on my primary is low because my rolls have been bad. In order to improve, I need to pray to the RNG gods for a primary drop or roll worth a shit and they're making that exponentially harder.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
at least the ghorn had a few avenues to drop, even if all of them were slim. aside from vendors i've never even seen a HE weapon drop. don't even know where they would. i guess challenge missions, but all i get is crap yellow gear there.
The problem is that the pool of potential item drops is just so huge that even if you get a HE drop, it could be a weapon mod or a performance mod. For Destiny, the raids basically only had exotic weapons in their drop pool which just made getting something (even something crappy like one of those exotic autorifles) at least in the realm of possibility.

Maybe if they add high-end drops to the daily missions or something else that feels more immediately rewarding.
I feel like they'll start giving away token level 30 HE gear in daily Hard mode challenges at some point. Particularly if they want people to buy their DLC - which would only appeal to people at the cap anyway.

This also makes me wonder if completing a set will take forever... because you'd imagine that they'd want set items to be as "special" as HE drops.
 
I'd be okay with rarer HE drops... If they were actually useful. However, most HE drops are absolutely useless. The best gear right now is gained through crafting, which they are going to massively nerf in a handful of days. They haven't said anything about improving the quality of drops, so that fits in with Hammish saying that people have too much gear.

We consumed all the content that they had put in the game, and now they are trying to slow us down by cutting off the main supply route to getting useful loot: Crafting....

...which is going to severely slog the game for new or lower level players. They keep making changes that are in reaction to those of us who are deep in the endgame, but it's just going to keep expanding the rift between us and everyone else, which will only frustrate and infuriate people who aren't on our side of that rift.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
Go out of bounds, glitch through building from the other side of the DZ, invite friend, disband, go rogue on friend, let him revive by support station, let rogue timer run out, rinse and repeat. There are also places where you can glitch through walls from within the DZ and attack other players and they can't shot you back, same shit. It's a 'safer' way of farming DZ xp.

So its not really a Bullet King V3 like he says.
 
So they are making HE drops even harder now? I've missed out on all the big farming methods and in 6 days gametime I only have a HE Vector and Liberator weapon wise. I've not gotten a single HE to drop ever.
 

spyder_ur

Member
I listened to it and I get that they don't want people to be swimming in gear. I'm optimistic that other sources of materials will be provided in the update, so it could offset the crafting changes.

But I'm curious as to what you find positive about it.

I'm of the opinion that the RNG element to crafting, particularly with weapons since you can't re-roll them, is the worst part of this game. I'm not asking for easy gear, but rolling the same weapon 30 times just to get the talents right only to find that, because the DMG of the weapon is also RNGed, it's worse then the thing it's supposed to replace is not fun and it's not progression.

Here is what I think might be appealing about it, though really my point is that it's OK to see how it plays out:

-I don't think the crafting table literally being the end game was very appealing. I'm open to solutions where you are actually playing the content to gear up rather than spending hours at the crafting table
-I think the idea that you're not going to be able to craft anything ever is ridiculously overblown.
-I respect the fact that the company is making bold changes to the game based on data and information that we don't have, even if they go against the mindset of internet mobs
-I like the idea that people may be using different guns rather than just the blueprints that everyone has and could craft basically infinitely
-I like the other changes in the patch generally

As ever, it's going to depend on the experiences, gear and progression that they provide in this patch. I'm just saying I'm OK with seeing where it goes.
 

KodaRuss

Member
That's the problem I'm having. Played for 4 days without a single drop/crafted item that even slightly resembled an upgrade.. and my stats aren't "good" they're "passable".

This is kinda where I am at as well. I am at 132k dps and 47k health and I just cannot get any upgrades at the moment but I guess the goal now is to get to lvl 50 dark zone and do a bunch of crafting and hope I get upgrades.
 
This is kinda where I am at as well. I am at 132k dps and 47k health and I just cannot get any upgrades at the moment but I guess the goal now is to get to lvl 50 dark zone and do a bunch of crafting and hope I get upgrades.
Dz50 blueprints are the missing pieces in your stat puzzle. That and hope to get lucky with HE drops from named bosses or dz chests.
 

KodaRuss

Member
Dz50 blueprints are the missing pieces in your stat puzzle. That and hope to get lucky with HE drops from named bosses or dz chests.

Yep, I cannot see myself doing the grind to lvl 90 dz. It is taking me about a day per level right now (only have about an hour and half to play in a day) and I am lvl 43.

Maybe I am missing something but I feel like they need to add a mission playlist like Destiny has with the strike playlists. Obviously the rewards/leveling is not there for the Division but I feel like that is a bit of an oversight for people who dont want anything to do with the Darkzone (i am fine with it for the most part but a change of pace would be good).
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
Just don't kill other players while OOB, that shit will get you banned.

Exploit all you want, on your own premise as long as it don't directly grief others.
 

EL CUCO

Member
Got a little busy at work so couldn't post this sooner...

Natchai on stream Re crafting: "Hold off for the 2nd half of the story. I swear you'll like it. Just cant reveal it yet"

I mean, even it's damage control, wouldn't this mean dev is listening...? They've never really given a reason to think otherwise. That's how these types of games usually get better.

Seeing alot of "I'm out". If the game aint fun for you, then you should absolutely "Be out". Plain and simple. It'd actually help from making the OT an absolute poop show for those that are actually enjoying the game, as well.

But I dont see a reason why we shouldn't at least wait and see how Massive responds to the crafting community outrage. I'm actually looking forward to see how they treat this, as it gives us a clearer picture of what we can expect from them going forward.

...Back to work
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Yep, I cannot see myself doing the grind to lvl 90 dz. It is taking me about a day per level right now (only have about an hour and half to play in a day) and I am lvl 43.

Maybe I am missing something but I feel like they need to add a mission playlist like Destiny has with the strike playlists. Obviously the rewards/leveling is not there for the Division but I feel like that is a bit of an oversight for people who dont want anything to do with the Darkzone (i am fine with it for the most part but a change of pace would be good).
The game is designed for PvP to be the end game. I've just resigned myself to that.
I have no doubt that the DZ level 90 stuff is going to be the new end game gear to aim for.
 

Tawpgun

Member
More brilliance from Hamish:

"Having perfect gear is not a necessity."

Does he even pay attention to the game at all?

I mean. He's not wrong. Having BiS for your current build isnt a requirement for any of the content.

But that being said, it is the true end game goal.





I'm about to drop my thoughts on what they need to do to fix the systems in this game.

The Problems

1. The loot progression is severely flawed.
This is by far the most important thing to address regarding end game progression. Currently, as it stands, the most consistent, efficient way of getting the best loot in the game is to buy blue prints by grinding phoenix credits/DZ rank and then farm crafting materials and division tech. THIS IS SO FKN BORING. You have this awesome loot based action RPG, and you end up spending half your time pressing 2 buttons at a goddamn table.

They have challenge modes that require coordination that give out yellows. They will have even harder incursions that give out probably great gear also. And my favorite, they have the dark zone which to me is by FAR the best and most compelling and unique thing about this game. The way of getting gear from the DZ is awesome also. You fight high level enemies and they drop loot. Or, you go rogue on another player to steal this loot. Then you have to go extract it. And if you die, you lose some of it (assuming you won't get there in time to pick it back up) And they are adding DZ supply drops which will be awesome.

The extracting loot mechanic alone is the coolest mechanic in this game. I remember how sweaty my first extracting of a high end item was. That feeling of EARNING your loot in a fun and interesting way is what they need to focus on. However they need to revamp the loot itself also.

2. The loot is too scarce/too random
Currently, drop rates in the DZ and in challenge mode come too scarce and in addition to that the loot rolls are too random. I've deconstructed more yellow loot than I have equipped. That's because they all have a crazy amount of variability. Firearm/Stam/Electronics can roll with a hundred points separation between the low/high values. Then you have the talent roll. And then mod slots or other attribute rolls. It's cool that there is that much variety in the game, but the scarcity of it all makes it so you feel like you never get what you want even if you do get that yellow beam of light. Hell, some talents are outright garbage for certain weapons or gear.

Because of this, the best way to get a decent roll is to craft.

Solutions

1. Get rid of crafting entirely or overhaul it.
Hamish/Massive are right about one thing. People got really good gear, way too fast. The exploits didn't help any of this but the main culprit was the flawed loot system relying on crafting too much. Honestly, I would be for removing blueprints ENTIRELY, or at the very least removing the highest level of them.

Crafting shouldn't be the primary way of getting gear but that doesn't mean you have to throw away the deconstructing and material mechanics. Instead of that table crafting things from scratch it should be used more like a recalibration station.

You get that awesome drop actually playing the game, but it doesn't have the talent you want or the rolls you want. Instead of just throwing it away, you can use your materials to change values on it. Crafting/Recalibrating should augment your gear. not create it.

2. Up the drop rates in the DZ. Especially from northern DZ enemies. And make the loot "smarter"
By smart loot, I mean don't have stupid talents on guns that don't need them and useless talents in general. You also need to tone down the RNG on the atrribute and mod slot rolls. Make the values a lot tigher and a lot higher for yellows. I hate when I have a purple thats better than my yellow.

There are talents like triple rewards from accolades, or headshot kills grant credits that are just silly. I don't have the entire list of talents in front of me but some of them could definitely get the axe. I'd also be for removing talents from certain guns or making sure they don't match up. For instance, you can roll a gun that will give a damage bonus when less than 10 meters from a target and a damage bonus when more than 40 meters from a target. That's just silly.

I don't think SMG's should be able to roll with something that increases their crit chance and I don't think snipers should roll with the headshot bonus talent. Those are baked into the gun already and there are plenty mods to help you up them too. Would make sandbox balancing a whole lot easier when people don't have vectors that hit sniper tier damage values for more than half their mag.


I think I had something else to say but forgot.

I'll try out the DZ drops and incursions. But if they don't change their loot/endgame system I don't know if I'll be buying the season pass.
 
Got a little busy at work so couldn't post this sooner...

Natchai on stream Re crafting: "Hold off for the 2nd half of the story. I swear you'll like it. Just cant reveal it yet"
Then just tell us. The longer they let this fester, the more damaging it will be for them in the long run. That's DeeJ levels of ball teasing.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
The Division |OT 3| Get rid of Jay Wilson

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WipedOut

Member
Then just tell us. The longer they let this fester, the more damaging it will be for them in the long run. That's DeeJ levels of ball teasing.

Exactly. Don't post that you are nerfing the economy and then say that is only part of the story, maybe leave that bit out until you CAN detail everything.
 

ERMint13

Member
Unless the drop rate increases the people who don't have all lvl 31 gear are going to stay behind the all lvl 31 guys.

Didn't they say don't bother with the incursions unless all gear was lvl 31? I feel like some of the adjustements are just reactions to people that have geared up/grinded through hours of play or exploits.

I still don't have a 31 backpack(I'll be able to craft one have all the blueprints), chestpiece, sidearm or holster.
 
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