Tom Warren seems to throw cold water on rumours of Switch 2 being as capable as PS4 Pro

analog_future said:
Even modern $1200 iPhones aren't as performant as the PS4 Pro in 2025
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I mean, they couldn't be simply because smartphones are passively cooled, with no fans to extract heat from within the chassis. The Switch, meanwhile, does have a blower inside of it, so the comparison is a little different. iPhones can render hardware accelerated ray tracing now as well, something that a PS4 Pro can't do.
 
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HogIsland said:
Steam Deck isn't close to PS4 Pro (not close to PS4 either), and Switch 2 will be a couple steps down from Steam Deck.
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Maybe. Maybe not. It means nothing nowadays, is impossible to compare hardware like we did in 2000 because too much technologies are involved. The only answer will arrive from games that'll works or not in the final hardware.
 
adamsapple said:
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Bojji said:
We don't know what settings and resolution they used.

Matrix could run on PS4 pro with enough cuts (vs PS5 version).
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Are we sure about that? Wasn't it HEAVILY CPU bound? If PS5 saw frequent sub 20FPS dips, wouldn't it make a PS4 Pro have a seizure? Even removing all the RT and shit, this thing would be a absolute slideshow on a PS4 Pro due to it's ancient CPU.
Not really trying to argue, I've just bever heard anyone make such a claim.

This chip is gonna smoke that Jaguar, regardless.
 
Kikorin said:
Maybe. Maybe not. It means nothing nowadays, is impossible to compare hardware like we did in 2000 because too much technologies are involved. The only answer will arrive from games that'll works or not in the final hardware.
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It's going to be Elden Ring, Baldurs Gate, Cyberpunk etc "impossible ports" that run a little worse than steam deck at lower resolution, benefitting from direct hardware optimization. The CPU is low power and the GPU is comparable to the 1050 Ti.
 
coffinbirth said:
Even removing all the RT and shit, this thing would be an absolute slideshow on a PS4 Pro due to it's ancient CPU.
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Not only that, but the HDD inside the PS4 Pro wouldn't allow for the amount of streaming that we saw in that Matrix demo. The latter would have to be significantly reworked/changed completely for it to even begin to run on a PS4 Pro.
 
Muddy said:
Nintendo releasing a PS4 Pro spec handheld for 400 dollars?

The same Nintendo who charged 70 dollars for cardboard?

Let's get serious here.
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Labo was first and foremost a game.

Don't you pay 70 bucks for a digital game? What do you think you're paying for? Air?
 
DanielG165 said:
I mean, they couldn't be simply because smartphones are passively cooled, with no fans to extract heat from within the chassis. The Switch, meanwhile, does have a blower inside of it, so the comparison is a little different. iPhones can render hardware accelerated ray tracing now as well, something that a PS4 Pro can't do.
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Active cooling isn't going to account for an $800 gap in pricing though. I know the devices aren't 1:1 comparable but we should keep expectations in check.

Regardless of raw specs the Switch 2 will be plenty capable enough to make those Nintendo 1st party games shine.
 
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Woopah said:
While most don't give a fuck about graphics, the Switch 2 will need to be at least a PS4 in power to get third party games. And Nintendo wants those third party games.
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Switch was woefully underpowered and still got Harry Potter, Witcher 3, Doom, Wolfenstein etc... If devs want to port games there, they will find a way.
 
Seems like Switch 2 is going to be relying purely on DLSS for any hope of running newer games, and is focusing on sticking to lower resolutions on the handheld screen. Only exception I can think would be if the dock somehow boosts performance further, but considering the form factor of Switch 2 I don't see how they get around the thermal limits inside the handheld where the GPU is.
 
MacReady13 said:
Switch was woefully underpowered and still got Harry Potter, Witcher 3, Doom, Wolfenstein etc... If devs want to port games there, they will find a way.
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But would it have got those games if it was less powerful than a PS3?

Plus Switch still missed out on third party support because of its power. More power makes third party ports more likely.
 
coffinbirth said:
Are we sure about that? Wasn't it HEAVILY CPU bound? If PS5 saw frequent sub 20FPS dips, wouldn't it make a PS4 Pro have a seizure? Even removing all the RT and shit, this thing would be a absolute slideshow on a PS4 Pro due to it's ancient CPU.
Not really trying to argue, I've just bever heard anyone make such a claim.

This chip is gonna smoke that Jaguar, regardless.
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I was mostly talking about GPU stuff but yeah, CPU in S2 will probably be better than that Jaguar.

Matrix itself can no problem run on Polaris class hardware. This is unoptimized pc build using max settings and 1080p:



We have no idea what resolution and settings switch demo was using, it was also probably optimized and tailored for it (just like PS5 build was and Xbox devs did the same with Series build).
 
I don't think PS4 Pro is best comparison since that is basically a high-res PS4 with same shitty Jag and an extra 1GB slow RAM. Especially when there's so many PC handhelds with more modern hardware to reference. Like Steam Deck with Zen2+RDNA2(same as current-gen consoles), or Asus Ally with Z1 Extreme Zen4+RDNA3. If you want a reference for a GPU-bound game on those handhelds, the Deck matches the PS4 version of GOW at 800p, while the Ally can match it at 1080p. That's at 15W and 30W SoC TDP, respectively. Full system power consumption at 15W TDP lock in that game on Deck is ~25W, with spikes to 28W.

I still think the best comparison is a Steam Deck with DLSS, which can run all sorts of modern games at 30-45fps(for 30fps/90Hz or 45fps/90Hz).
 
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Woopah said:
But would it have got those games if it was less powerful than a PS3?

Plus Switch still missed out on third party support because of its power. More power makes third party ports more likely.
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And yet it's on track to sell more than the PS2! Once again, most people don't give a shit about stuff like that! Can it run Fortnite?
 
ManaByte said:
www.tweaktown.com

Nintendo is the richest company in Japan regarding cash flow and money in the bank

With no debt and over $11 billion USD in cash assets Nintendo is the richest Japanese company according to a new 'Top 300 Richest Japanese Companies' list.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com
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Well done for derailing the thread.

Nice way of looking at it. I guess Nintendo are richer than Microsoft too going by this logic.

Well back to topic, now you know why they are so rich. Selling you underpowered hardware at full price with profits day one.

The Switch 2 will be no different. Enjoy.
 
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Sebastian1295 said:
Ps4 to ps4 pro hardware for 400 dollars is an abomination and embarrassment. No one wants to play 1080p at best 'it'll dip below that' at 30fps on a 4k screen man. This thing will be prehistoric tech wise on launch and will have an outdated LED screen on it too boot because they'll want to sell you an OLED version of it later lol. I know i'm being harsh but honestly it's the truth.
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Posts like this will be hilarious to revisit when Switch 2 is the hottest gaming of 2025, sells like hotcakes, and is THE thing the bigger gaming sphere talks about for the majority of the year…

You'd think people would learn lol.

Anyways, I saw the wizardry Nintendo pulled off with ancient hardware on the Switch so I gotta be honest when I say it's hard for me to be fussed about "what level" the Switch 2 is at power wise or anything else…

I know Nintendo and others will come through and make awesome games for it and that's all that matters to me…
 
I'd consider anything above base Ps4 as a bonus. This is Nintendo after all. If there's one thing that's not worth hyping up it's their hardware specs.
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bundylove said:
It wont run anything nee if it cant hit minimum target for unreal 5.

Dont see any unreal 5 games on ps4 or ps4 pro
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Thats not necessarily true, steam deck can run sparking zero which is an unreal 5 game, from the specs i wouldnt be surprised to get a port
 
MacReady13 said:
I love Nintendo and hold them very near and dear to my heart but, anyone thinking this will be as powerful as a PS4 or even a Pro are fucking crazy! Nintendo know what the VAST majority of the population want, and that is a cheap(ish), affordable console that can play games the mainstream want (like the Switch does). Most don't give a fuck about graphics.
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Not sure if serious. The 2022 Steamdeck is nearly as powerful as the PS4, GPU wise, and it's not crazy expensive.

Base PS4 should really be the minimum.

Also, Nintendo knows they've been leaving a lot of money behind with middling third party support. Having specs good enough for extensive 3rd party support could be key to billions in additional revenue. And we've heard multiple times now, and seen jobs come up that suggest that Nintendo is angling for much better third party support for Switch 2.
 
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I'm more curious about the screen resolution in handheld mode, 720p and 1080p docked on the Switch made perfect sense when you consider the ratios, it works out as what, 56% fewer pixels, which let them substantially under clock things in handheld mode without requiring the developers to go and create two different modes.

Even if they went 1440p docked and 1080p handheld for the Switch 2, that's only 44% fewer pixels, so would have to cut things elsewhere (CPU side, graphical settings etc) to get a similar power saving.

But a 720p handheld in 2025 would be nuts, my guess is they'll implement upscaling even on mobile mode.
 
Banjo64 said:
It's a handheld device that will have 4 hours plus of battery life and a smaller profile than the PC handhelds. It's not going to be a graphical powerhouse. If it's a 2x increase on the Switch that's as good as we're going to get from Nintendo.

To be honest if it's as powerful as the Deck but slimmer, quieter and with a longer battery life and consider that a miracle.
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I thought my expectations were low, but predicting a 2x increase from one generation to the next? That is the call of a man who refuses to be disappointed. Lol.
 
MacReady13 said:
And yet it's on track to sell more than the PS2! Once again, most people don't give a shit about stuff like that! Can it run Fortnite?
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It can run Fortnite. Which is the whole point.

Switch needed to be at a certain power level to be able to run things like Fortnite and other popular third party games.

For Switch 2 to run new popular games for the next 7-8 years, it will also benefit from being at a certain power level.
 
Gaiff said:
I think the CPU will be quite a bit faster than the Pro's CPU, but the GPU will be more comparable to the one inside the regular PS4.
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It might be, but you know damn well it'll be hobbled by a super narrow memory bus and shitty LPDDR memory that will hold the entire system back by it being severely memory bandwidth starved.
 
SidViscous said:
my guess is they'll implement upscaling even on mobile mode.
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I don't see why they wouldn't, although I'm not very tech savvy. But if there's one mode that DLSS should be used heavily it's definitely handheld mode imo.

I imagine the smaller screen size should allow for some pretty great visuals even at very low native resolutions.
 
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Muddy said:
It's Nintendo.

You currently play on a PS3 level handheld in 2025.
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A handheld that was released in early 2017.

It's not impossible that the Switch 2 will be comparable to the PS4 Pro in 2025, which was a console released nine years ago in 2016.
 
DenchDeckard said:
The switch is like 400gflops isn't it?

Imagine nintendo with 2tf and dlss?

I hope it has dlss
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I see loads of people have been speculating switch 2 will use dlss since the first rumours of the device, and it will very likely feature the hardware to support it.
But I wonder, would Nintendo be able to use dlss?
Dlss is a Nvidia specific machine learning software right, so I'd imagine Nvidia would want some sort of royalty payments to use it. Also the work to integrate it into the switch developer tools.
I've been wondering this for a bit, and I'm genuinely curious to what people who know more than myself think. Or am I talking bollocks?
 
gerth666 said:
I see loads of people have been speculating switch 2 will use dlss since the first rumours of the device, and it will very likely feature the hardware to support it.
But I wonder, would Nintendo be able to use dlss?
Dlss is a Nvidia specific machine learning software right, so I'd imagine Nvidia would want some sort of royalty payments to use it. Also the work to integrate it into the switch developer tools.
I've been wondering this for a bit, and I'm genuinely curious to what people who know more than myself think. Or am I talking bollocks?
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They're already paying Nvidia for the GPU and all related drivers and AI/ ML features. They won't be paying any royalties.
 
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I think some people are reading what Tom said very generously. Why would he say that to imply the Switch 2 is better than the PS4 Pro? As much as I'd love that, we know Nintendo by this point.

Either way, I hope DLSS isn't the crutch they rely on here. Especially at lower resolutions, it's kind of a shitty band-aid and I wish we hadn't gone down that path as an industry.
 
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I don't think Nintendo has talked about performance or the components inside their consoles since the Wii...Right? it will not be an official talking point. and as far as we know; The Switch 2 will be powered by the Nintendo´s Magic and Mario´s jizz. And that will be enough.
 
HogIsland said:
Steam Deck isn't close to PS4 Pro (not close to PS4 either), and Switch 2 will be a couple steps down from Steam Deck.
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The Steam Deck is ancient by now at almost 3 years old and it IS close to the base PS4 if you go by TFLOPs. It's 1.6TF vs 1.84TF. That a 15%-ish difference.

Historically Nintendo's handhelds (or handhelds in general) have always been as powerful as last gen consoles and this will be the same again. The Switch 2 will be a smidge faster than a PS4, but it will have a much more modern instruction set, faster storage and GPU features under its belt which widens the gap further in favor for Switch. Very similar to how a Series S can do things a One X can't despite having a faster GPU.

This makes the Switch essentially more powerful than a PS4 Pro on paper, however the software is the issue. Alan Wake 2 with RT won't run at 1080p with high settings on Switch 2. It will run at 240p with low settings. An RDR2, TW3 or GTAV port however should look easily better than it does on PS4 Pro.
 
Ozriel said:
They're already paying Nvidia for the GPU and all related drivers and AI/ ML features. They won't be paying any royalties.
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Yeah I was just curious is all.
If it does end up using dlss, I would keep my expectations in check though because I would imagine it would be quite expensive on such a small chip
 
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