Tom Warren seems to throw cold water on rumours of Switch 2 being as capable as PS4 Pro

Sooner said:
The Wii U was more powerful than the 360 and PS3. It released before the PS4 and Xbox One. Nintendo is on thier own timeline.
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Cant Speak Nathan Fillion GIF
 
his obviously saying switch 2 is not going to be as powerful as ps4 pro.

With DLSS, more games could probably run at 60fps on switch 2, than the ps4 pro, switch 2 has the upper hand on upscaling but doesnt mean its as powerful as ps4 pro.

Alot of factors to considered here, this is not just TF or upscaling comparison.
 
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Setsuna Mudou said:
It will literally be weaker hardware than the current handheld pcs on the market while running at lower power profiles. Whatever some of you are smoking, better mix some tobacco with it, it's too intense right now.
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Elden-Ring-Last-Gen-PS4-PS4-Pro-vs-Xbox-One-One-X-Do-You-Really-Need-A-Console-Upgrade-7-49-screen.png


DLSS in 4K Performance mode will look better than this. If they choose to go 1800p DLSS Quality or Balanced it would still look better. The framerate will also be better thanks to a superior CPU and modern GPU.
 
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Do people know PS4Pro GPU details before throwing this nonsense?

Also how does the most powerful handheld available today compared to PS4Pro or Series S?

Arent it based on Radeon 780M GPU? Which is way weaker than PS4Pro?

Thats like PC owners with GTX 470 claiming they are above PS4Pro because they reduced the resolution to 480p/60 fps vs PS4Pro 4K/30
 
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These Xbox guys have a tendency to just look at raw power, TF numbers and ignore the result on the screen. Let's just wait and see.
 
Mister Wolf said:
Elden-Ring-Last-Gen-PS4-PS4-Pro-vs-Xbox-One-One-X-Do-You-Really-Need-A-Console-Upgrade-7-49-screen.png


DLSS in 4K Performance mode will look better than this. If they choose to go 1800p DLSS Quality or Balanced it would still look better. The framerate will also be better thanks to a superior CPU and modern GPU.
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You are fucking insane my guy, please save this for after the switch 2 comes out. Please!

You're talking 4k on entry level, low powered handheld running at around 15w.... fml 👌 🤡

Remember how games like the witcher 3 looked on the switch? So just transpose that to the switch 2...

the_witcher_3_switch_compar.png
 
Mister Wolf said:
Elden-Ring-Last-Gen-PS4-PS4-Pro-vs-Xbox-One-One-X-Do-You-Really-Need-A-Console-Upgrade-7-49-screen.png


DLSS in 4K Performance mode will look better than this. If they choose to go 1800p DLSS Quality or Balanced it would still look better. The framerate will also be better thanks to a superior CPU and modern GPU.
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You're getting Steam Deck quality visuals at 720p/1080p upscaled to 4k with DLSS performance. The upscaling quality will be significantly better than checkerboarding, but you're not getting visuals on par with even base PS4.
 
baphomet said:
You're getting Steam Deck quality visuals at 720p/1080p upscaled to 4k with DLSS performance. The upscaling quality will be significantly better than checkerboarding, but you're not getting visuals on par with even base PS4.
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I'm not even entirely sure DLSS is available, currently there are no APUs with tensor cores (that I'm aware of). Will be funny if they have to end up using FSR at the end of the day.
 
FireFly said:
In that case we would be comparing PS5/XSX games to the Switch 2 version, not PS4 games. The relevant comparison in this case would be PS3/Xbox 360 games on the Switch 1.
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We're in 2025 and 99% of the games are still cross gen, still will look like shit smeared in vaseline on the switch 2. There are real world handhelds that are more powerful than the switch 2 will be, we know what's the ceiling. I love my handhelds, but there's no way they perform as good as a ps4, much less a pro. The less we talk about "power" and focus on other cool features like portability, good controls, OLED screen, etc, the better chance to be excited when the new console arrives. Putting these stupid expectations is a recipe for putting it in a terrible light as soon as it comes out.

edit: gta5 is a ps3 game, never even released on the switch although it sold north of 100M units. What does it tell you?
 
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Setsuna Mudou said:
We're in 2025 and 99% of the games are still cross gen, still will look like shit smeared in vaseline on the switch 2. There are real world handhelds that are more powerful than the switch 2 will be, we know what's the ceiling. I love my handhelds, but there's no way they perform as good as a ps4, much less a pro. The less we talk about "power" and focus on other cool features like portability, good controls, OLED screen, etc, the better chance to be excited when the new console arrives. Putting these stupid expectations is a recipe for putting it in a terrible light as soon as it comes out.

edit: gta5 is a ps3 game, never even released on the switch although it sold north of 100M units. What does it tell you?
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I do not think we are going to get the OLED variety for another 2-3 years (and for a $50 price bump at least).
 
Zones said:
The issues is precisely about using TF as some sort of objective performance measurement.

It may have had some use a while back, but with the whole 'dual issue' calculation present with modern GPUs, you essentially get a reported TF number that's roughly twice as high compared to the actual performance.

So a 4TF docked Switch would in real world perform closer to a base PS4 compared to a PS4 Pro.
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Talking about a console's power just in TF is like saying two people weighing 100 kg are the same. One could be a ripped sumo wrestler ready to throw you across the room, and the other could be some couch potato wheezing up a flight of stairs.
 
Setsuna Mudou said:
We're in 2025 and 99% of the games are still cross gen, still will look like shit smeared in vaseline on the switch 2. There are real world handhelds that are more powerful than the switch 2 will be, we know what's the ceiling. I love my handhelds, but there's no way they perform as good as a ps4, much less a pro. The less we talk about "power" and focus on other cool features like portability, good controls, OLED screen, etc, the better chance to be excited when the new console arrives. Putting these stupid expectations is a recipe for putting it in a terrible light as soon as it comes out.

edit: gta5 is a ps3 game, never even released on the switch although it sold north of 100M units. What does it tell you?
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The Switch 2's GPU is double the size of the Steam Deck's, so it would need to be clocked at less than half the speed of the Steam Deck in docked mode to be slower, which would be around half the TDP. And I don't see any evidence that Nintendo has reduced the TDP even from Switch 1.

So even the most pessimistic expectations should see performance similar to Steam Deck in docked mode. When you add in DLSS, you can then get to 1440p, say (in DLSS Performance mode).
 
www.techpowerup.com

Nintendo Switch 2 PCB Leak Reveals an NVIDIA Tegra T239 Chip Optically Shrunk to 5nm

Nintendo Switch 2 promises to be this year's big (well small) gaming platform launch. It goes up against a growing ecosystem of handhelds based on x86-64 mobile processors running Windows, its main play would have to be offering a similar or better gameplay experience, but with better battery...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA originally built the T239 on Samsung 8 nm DUV foundry node, but the semi-custom chip powering the Switch 2 is very likely built on the Samsung 5 nm EUV node. This node offers a 70% transistor density increase over 8 nm, and Nintendo Prime calculates that the chip in the picture is roughly that much smaller than the 341 mm² die area of what the NVIDIA Orin would be with 2/3rd its CPU core and iGPU SM count. The chip in the pictures is estimated to has a die size of roughly 200 mm².
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The T239 features a 3-tiered hybrid CPU consisting of one Arm Cortex X1 HP-core, three Cortex A78 P-cores, and four Cortex A55 E-cores, with Arm DynamIQ, a hardware-based scheduler. The iGPU of the T239 is based on the "Ampere" graphics architecture, with 12 streaming multiprocessors worth 1,536 CUDA cores. On the Switch 2, this chip drives 12 GB of LPDDR5X-7500 memory. The console uses a UFS 3.1 based 256 GB flash storage solution.
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Sooner said:
The Wii U was more powerful than the 360 and PS3. It released before the PS4 and Xbox One. Nintendo is on thier own timeline.
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That isn't a flex.

It was debatable whether it was more powerful and it released 6-7 years after the PS3/360.

What games on the Wii U came close graphically to Gears of War, Halo 4, Uncharted and TLOU?
 
Setsuna Mudou said:
It will literally be weaker hardware than the current handheld pcs on the market while running at lower power profiles. Whatever some of you are smoking, better mix some tobacco with it, it's too intense right now.
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It will be more capable than a steamdeck for sure.
 
It won't take much to be better than base PS4 and Switch 2 will still have an advantage of having more ram available to devs and a much better CPU. 5.5GB for PS4 vs I would assume 10GB for Switch 2. A78C should stomp the PS4/PS4 Pro Jaguar cores no problem, and utilizing DLSS will clean up the low native resolution base.
 
FireFly said:
The Switch 2's GPU is double the size of the Steam Deck's, so it would need to be clocked at less than half the speed of the Steam Deck in docked mode to be slower, which would be around half the TDP. And I don't see any evidence that Nintendo has reduced the TDP even from Switch 1.

So even the most pessimistic expectations should see performance similar to Steam Deck in docked mode. When you add in DLSS, you can then get to 1440p, say (in DLSS Performance mode).
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Like the steam deck isn't already using upscaling (like FSR) to run the games. Where did you get anything about the GPU being double the size of the deck?

Regardless, even by those metrics it's not even in the same realm of a PS4 pro, not to mention that these APUs need to run cool and very low power. We have seen the form factor of the switch 2 for a few weeks now, it's nowhere nearly as big as the majority of the PC handhelds out there, so will be even more power limited than... yes the Steam Deck.
 
Stuart360 said:
PS4PRO?, wow i'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to Switch 2 news.
I was thinking XB1 level, and maybe PS4 level at a push lol.
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Much better than both.

CPU = 8 Arm A78C cores curb stomps the 8 Jaguar cores.

GPU = Much more modern architecture than what is in the XB1/PS4. Keep in mine, a Nvidia flop has been more efficient than an AMD flop for well over a decade. Also, Switch 2 is not likely going to target a native resolution higher than 1080p and will utilize DLSS to do the rest of the work to clean up the image.

RAM = Lower bandwidth, but again as the overall architecture is way more modern and efficient, devs should get a lot more out of the available memory bandwidth Also, devs should have access to around 10GBs of usable ram on Switch 2 vs the 5 - 5.5GBs available on XB1/PS5/PS4 Pro.

Internal Storage = UFS-3.1 Storage is obviously many magnitudes faster (2100 MB/s) than the max read speeds available on XB1/PS4/PS4 Pro (45 - 50 GB/s) when using either an HDD or SSD.

TLDR: The Switch 2 is going to punch above its weight and in every way should provide a better experience than both XB1 and base PS4.
 
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Setsuna Mudou said:
Like the steam deck isn't already using upscaling (like FSR) to run the games. Where did you get anything about the GPU being double the size of the deck?

Regardless, even by those metrics it's not even in the same realm of a PS4 pro, not to mention that these APUs need to run cool and very low power. We have seen the form factor of the switch 2 for a few weeks now, it's nowhere nearly as big as the majority of the PC handhelds out there, so will be even more power limited than... yes the Steam Deck.
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We already have the specs of the GPU from the Nvidia leak. It's an Ampere GPU with 1,536 ALUs, compared with 512 on the Steam deck. That's 3X more, but Ampere doubled the number of compute cores and kept everything else the same, so realistically it should perform like a 1024 ALU (16 CU) RDNA 2 part.

Yes, the unit will be smaller. That's why the 9W figure of the Switch 1 should be used as the baseline, rather than the 15W figure of the Steam Deck. Still, you're cutting 40% power on a GPU that is double the size, so that leaves performance left over, at the same efficiency (2*0.6 = 1.2, and performance doesn't scale linearly with power anyway). I agree about the PS4 Pro, but I think the poster was talking about DLSS Performance mode, which gives you an extra 2X resolution reduction, and may still look better than checkerboarding. That would probably require performance in the realm of the PS4, which is more ambitious than the pessimistic baseline, but also seems possible if Nintendo are using the 5nm Samsung process.

Anyway, the point is that even if Nintendo are still using 8nm, we would still expect the Switch 2 to compete fine with the Steam Deck in docked mode, at the original 9W power consumption of the Switch 1. Ampere PC parts on 8nm were only slightly less efficient than their RDNA 2 equivalents on 7nm.
 
How can everyone be so sure every game will feature DLSS upscaling? Sure, the hardware supports it but I can't shake the feeling that Nintendo could disappoint us regarding DLSS with some limitation or drawback.
 
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FireFly said:
We already have the specs of the GPU from the Nvidia leak. It's an Ampere GPU with 1,536 ALUs, compared with 512 on the Steam deck. That's 3X more, but Ampere doubled the number of compute cores and kept everything else the same, so realistically it should perform like a 1024 ALU (16 CU) RDNA 2 part.

Yes, the unit will be smaller. That's why the 9W figure of the Switch 1 should be used as the baseline, rather than the 15W figure of the Steam Deck. Still, you're cutting 40% power on a GPU that is double the size, so that leaves performance left over, at the same efficiency (2*0.6 = 1.2, and performance doesn't scale linearly with power anyway). I agree about the PS4 Pro, but I think the poster was talking about DLSS Performance mode, which gives you an extra 2X resolution reduction, and may still look better than checkerboarding. That would probably require performance in the realm of the PS4, which is more ambitious than the pessimistic baseline, but also seems possible if Nintendo are using the 5nm Samsung process.

Anyway, the point is that even if Nintendo are still using 8nm, we would still expect the Switch 2 to compete fine with the Steam Deck in docked mode, at the original 9W power consumption of the Switch 1. Ampere PC parts on 8nm were only slightly less efficient than their RDNA 2 equivalents on 7nm.
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Can you link me to this supposed APU that you are mentioning? Do we know how cut down that thing is?
We should also admit that the CPU will be in no realm as strong as what AMD has, right?

In any case, my final point was that even if we could grant it would be close to a steam deck, that's still falling way behind the clown expectations of some in this thread. Obviously nowhere near the realm of a PS4 pro (and doubt about the base model even).
 
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StereoVsn said:
It's going to be really interesting to see the specs when it eventually releases. And how well will DLSS work on it.
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We now understand that DLSS uses horsepower overall to being used. It's not like Switch 2 will have dedicated hardware to DLSS only.
 
mckmas8808 said:
We now understand that DLSS uses horsepower overall to being used. It's not like Switch 2 will have dedicated hardware to DLSS only.
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It should have dedicated hardware for DLSS and other Nvidia functionality similar to modern Nvidia GPUs though.

There is certainly no free lunch but it should help. Question is what is going to be the source res to upscale. 540p wouldn't be great as an example, but 720p to 1080p or to 1440p (for docked) could work.
 
Woopah said:
Correct, plus we don't know how DLSS on a console compares to DLSS on a PC.

Aren't the tensor cores hardware for DLSS?
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StereoVsn said:
It should have dedicated hardware for DLSS and other Nvidia functionality similar to modern Nvidia GPUs though.

There is certainly no free lunch but it should help. Question is what is going to be the source res to upscale. 540p wouldn't be great as an example, but 720p to 1080p or to 1440p (for docked) could work.
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Are we sure on this mobile device, it'll have tensor cores for DLSS? Exactly how much can it have given the lack of space and cooling?
 
mckmas8808 said:
Are we sure on this mobile device, it'll have tensor cores for DLSS? Exactly how much can it have given the lack of space and cooling?
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It has 48 tensor cores for DLSS and 12 RT cores for ray tracing, so there is dedicated hardware for these features.

It might be that these features get used more in docked mode than portable mode.
 
Setsuna Mudou said:
Can you link me to this supposed APU that you are mentioning? Do we know how cut down that thing is?
We should also admit that the CPU will be in no realm as strong as what AMD has, right?

In any case, my final point was that even if we could grant it would be close to a steam deck, that's still falling way behind the clown expectations of some in this thread. Obviously nowhere near the realm of a PS4 pro (and doubt about the base model even).
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The APU is the T239, which is now confirmed from the shipping manifests. The leak was from the NVN2 API used to communicate with the APU, so it confirms that 1536 cores were available for the developer to access. It's not clear if that's a full chip. There is a DF article on the APU here:

www.eurogamer.net

Inside Nvidia's new hardware for Switch 2: what is the T239 processor?

What new hardware has Nvidia cooked up for Nintendo? Digital Foundry puts together all available info on the cutting-edge T239 processor.
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

From what I can find online, the A78C has a slightly higher IPC than Zen 2, but is clocked lower. On the other hand the Steam Deck only has 4 physical cores vs. 8 in the T239.
 
Woopah said:
It has 48 tensor cores for DLSS and 12 RT cores for ray tracing, so there is dedicated hardware for these features.

It might be that these features get used more in docked mode than portable mode.
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WHOA! That was in a leak?
 
Woopah said:
Yes that was in the Nvidia hack from 2022.

So we know it has the hardware to do DLSS and Ray Tracing. We just don't yet know exactly how good it will perform these features.
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Gotcha! My interest has been piqued. Because there's an obvious thermal limit that they have for this device. So......I'm very curious how much raw performance it'll have now, since it also has DLSS and RT hardware within it.

From what we know, does the Steamdeck or other PC handhelds have either of this extra hardware within it?
 
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Nintendo haters come out of the woodwork anytime it's time for Nintendo to destroy them again in sales, review score, and any other metric a healthy console should have.

Rest assured that while the gaming industry is falling to shambles around them, Nintendo will stay the course and be the lodestar for the industry. Enjoy woke bullshit though, pretend graphics whores.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Gotcha! My interest has been piqued. Because there's an obvious thermal limit that they have for this device. So......I'm very curious how much raw performance it'll have now, since it also has DLSS and RT hardware within it.

From what we know, does the Steamdeck or other PC handhelds have either of this extra hardware within it?
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I'm not really an expert on PC handhelds, but from my understanding none of them released so far use Nvidia tech. It's mostly AMD and Intel.

So no, nothing released has exactly what Switch 2 will have. PC handhelds can do ray tracing, but you need Nvidia hardware to get DLSS.

In terms of thermal limit, the Switch 2 dock has a fan in it to help with that (though obviously that only helps with docked mode).
 
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