Because it could just as easily be you in their situation? Would you rather die than be saved?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tomb Raider |OT| Lara's Misfortune
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
Because it could just as easily be you in their situation? Would you rather die than be saved?
Uhhh, no it couldn't. Again, its pretty clear what happens to women on that Island...
By the way, Secret Tomb nearby is the new "look more hidden footprints". I mean what's the point of calling them secret when they appear on your map, you get a message saying you are close to one and they are highlighted by white chalks. It's like they are so afraid that you might accidentally miss out on secret optional content....
toastyToast
Member
And the smart people?
Yes it could. Nobody is impervious to brainwashing. Everyone tells themselves it couldn't happen to them.
And it has nothing to do with Lara being a woman. Just because they don't brainwash women doesn't mean she can appreciate that most of the cult members are brainwashed survivors who were once no different from her and her friends.
toastyToast
Member
I get that but, what was the point in attempting to make them sympathetic if its all for naught?
This is purely a narrative criticism. Someone had to get arrows lobbed at them after all.
Right, most people, especially in individualistic cultures, commit the fundamental attribution error, which is where people tend to judge people's negative actions as being due to their personality and fail to take into account the power of the situation. However, this is usually because people don't have knowledge of the situation.
A guy cuts you off in traffic and you might say "That guy was an asshole!" But what you don't know is that the guy was in a hurry to get his pregnant wife to a hospital. That knowledge of the situation would completely change your assessment of the guy who cut you off. The problem is that Lara KNOWS the guy is trying to get his pregnant wife to the hospital and still thinks he's an asshole and chases him down and runs his car off the road.
ok
guess we gotta strike "brainwashed murderous cultists" off the list of possible bad dudes in video games.
To me it looks like your issue has more to do with video game violence in general and that's fine, that's obviously a real conversation to have. But you don't have to twist the narrative of this game to fit that conversation. Nothing in this game gives Lara any reason whatsoever to not go after these guys.
This is a strawman. I'm not saying killing badguys is wrong. I'm saying if they're going to bring up these issues they shouldn't handle them so poorly. They put a huge amount of emphasis on this story, so tell it well. They bring up issues and never go anywhere with them, and it sorta makes Lara seem psychopathic when she fails to feel any remorse for her actions knowing that at least some of the people she killed were victims as well and hypocritical when she labels them as insane murderers.
You have to stretch the game's narrative to the limits to extrapolate from it what you are. It's simply not what is presented at face value by the game. The context is clear, the setting, actions of the characters and the backstory properly reflect why Lara is killing them with no remorse. Her
, she's being hunted, she's beaten, bruised and bloodied, the leader of the Island wants her dead, his followers follow his every command, they even murder rescue pilots from downed airplanes immediately. Literally nothing in the game should make you doubt your actions.
friends are being killed, kidnapped, burned
Not quite.
Some late~endgame spoilers
Sam is captured as a candidate to be Himiko's vessel.
Reyes was captured along with Jonah and Alex.
Lara Croft gets knocked out and dragged off in what is an unusually weak outing considering how well her other fights have gone.
Interestingly enough. Not a single female cast member bite the bullet. On the other hand, cook, Alex, Roth and Whitburg died. Run Jonah, run.
Reyes was captured along with Jonah and Alex.
Lara Croft gets knocked out and dragged off in what is an unusually weak outing considering how well her other fights have gone.
Interestingly enough. Not a single female cast member bite the bullet. On the other hand, cook, Alex, Roth and Whitburg died. Run Jonah, run.
I'm basing my assessment purely on what the game gave us. You have cult members disagreeing with the cult's practices, talking about how much they just want to go home, expressing fear of being killed, and expressing anger that their friends have been killed. There is more than one scene where
cult members are killed for questioning the cult.
That doesn't mean she should try to handshake them all or not shoot first, but she has knowledge of the situation and still acts like they are all inhuman monsters who deserve to die as if they all choose to join the cult because they love to kill. She doesn't even react
when Mathias calls her out on her killing hundreds of people to survive.
Production value don't really matter when the core gameplay is not good(aka all Ninja Theory games).
and how is this a plus?
there is nothing new or unique about the new design or the new Lara,as a charachter she is still non believable super hero and non-human as for the design it self she is average looking character even NPC-quality, at least the old one was iconic.
not even close.
Moff
Member
Finished it
when the credits rolled I realized that I am actually kind of angry at this game
never have I played a game with more shallow gameplay, you think assassins creed is bad? try tomb raider.
it has reached the point where I am not able to call it a game anymore. its rather an interactive movie for the most part.
the linearity is suffocating, and I am not only talking about the leveldesign here, there are at least some more or less open areals. but the gameplay for the most part, which is running and climbing consists of mostly pressing forward and pressing A.
is that really gameplay? can we call that an actual game anymore?
and in some aspects, where there is actually some gameplay, its gets either mediocre (shooting) or short und and dull (puzzles).
I am aware this is an uncharted clone, a relaunch that is not supposed to hold up to its predecessors, but if you compare this the first installments of its franchise with its rich leveldesign and puzzles, tomb raider is a wonderful example of what went wrong with the industry in the last ~10 years: more superficial, less gameplay.
when the credits rolled I realized that I am actually kind of angry at this game
never have I played a game with more shallow gameplay, you think assassins creed is bad? try tomb raider.
it has reached the point where I am not able to call it a game anymore. its rather an interactive movie for the most part.
the linearity is suffocating, and I am not only talking about the leveldesign here, there are at least some more or less open areals. but the gameplay for the most part, which is running and climbing consists of mostly pressing forward and pressing A.
is that really gameplay? can we call that an actual game anymore?
and in some aspects, where there is actually some gameplay, its gets either mediocre (shooting) or short und and dull (puzzles).
I am aware this is an uncharted clone, a relaunch that is not supposed to hold up to its predecessors, but if you compare this the first installments of its franchise with its rich leveldesign and puzzles, tomb raider is a wonderful example of what went wrong with the industry in the last ~10 years: more superficial, less gameplay.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
There's several parts actually, my favorite is when Lara says
"can't we just talk it over" and the two guys start bicker between themselves about if they should talk about it lol
Wow it's a good thing I mentioned the gameplay in the other section you apparently didn't read.
Good waypoint system makes it accessible.
The only iconic thing about the old Lara was her pointy, ridiculous breasts.
Cool story bro!
I think you're misremembering. Unless there was a different scene I missed,
the guys ask Lara to put down her weapons and claim they just want to talk, then after a few seconds they realize that won't work and decide to just attack. I doubt those guys were seriously considering negotiations
Probably gameplay where areas are locked off to the player until they come back with the ability that can unlock it.
There's only really two areas on the island where that really happens though, and with two items:
Mountain Village/Shipwreck Beach and the rope arrows/rope ascender.
You don't have to use Survival Vision if you don't want to.
But if you're someone that just wants to blow throw the game quickly without getting hung up on puzzles, it's nice to have a hint system that isn't totally obvious.
Trent Strong
Banned
Is Laura half Asian?
NullPointer
Member
I think you've misunderstood the criticism.
Nobody has a problem with games that have an easy mode. Its only a problem when there aren't any options to crank up the danger and tension. Hard is easy, normal is easier, and easy is easier still. So those who want to progress through the story without obstacles have that option, and those who want some real challenge get the short end of the stick.
Just as combat in this game wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that it seems that challenging platforming and puzzles have been sacrificed for it. So blood and guts types get what they're after, but platforming and puzzle fans get a single room with a pulley.
Its not whats in the game, its whats been left behind, and all of this would be less divisive if this wasn't a long running series that a lot of gamers have fond memories of. At least that's my take.
As far as the violence towards otherwise semi-sympathetic enemies, I kindof agree. It seems weird to both humanize the enemy factions and at the same time reward the players for "finesse" kills and executions. I could do without Lara having a raucous bloodlust personally, as I don't think the game would be any weaker if it wasn't there. Executions and finesse, if anything, seem there for the multiplayer versus crowd, while the stealth systems are tailored to single player, and adds a lot to combat encounters.
who?
Trent Strong
Banned
She's definitely all woman. My god. I'd pay ten bucks for a bra and panty outfit for her.
You know, Laura Kraft.
So what qualifies as incapacitating an enemy with a dodge counter? Cause I definitely did that about a hundred times with no achievement pop. And no, I wasn't using dodge kill. B -> Y (twice -- near the end of the game on tougher enemies) so they're crawling around with the finisher prompt should do it, right?
It's mostly fine.
DeadRockstar
Member
Don't do it, the game looks fantastic on PC.
Wind's Howling
Member
This game is starting to become my little gem this generation. It is one of the few games in my huge collection that makes me feel that almost everything is done right, and where the developers put a lot of time and love in the atmosphere and design.
Here is hoping that the sequel will have the same impact as Uncharted 2 did in comparison with Uncharted.
Here is hoping that the sequel will have the same impact as Uncharted 2 did in comparison with Uncharted.
The only goal for either side is survival. The enemies are humanized because they're supposed to be human beings caught up in a hellish place. However, they are also enemy combatants with the very clear objective of executing all of them. She kills them because she has to, perhaps hating them makes it easier. It seems like an ugly, human way of coping with combat.
She doesn't answer Mathias' comment because she doesn't shy away from what she's been doing. She tells Roth it was 'too easy' to do. She put her survival and the survival of her crew above the lives of enemy combatants. She did hate them, and they did seem like monsters to her, maybe you can say she was as 'brainwashed' by the island itself as the rest of them. Lara had her 'brothers' (crew) and the savagery to survive, just as the cultists did.
Lara had a level head and clear mind, but as you point out, many of the cultists also had clear thoughts and mused about their helpless situation and coercion by Mathias. It didn't stop them from wanting to kill/capture everyone to find a means of escape. Likewise, if Lara could get the drop on a gang of cultists talking weather, she was going to blow the fuel barrel next to them and continue forward with her escape. Two sides, same goal, and no tolerance for each other, a situation established by the cult, not the Endurance crew. It wasn't up to her small crew to change the status quo or be sympathetic.
uploading...
captainnapalm
Member
I see this game is averaging above 85 for both user and critic reviews on Metacritic. I've been following Metacritic for a while, and let me tell you, that's very rare, especially for big budget games.
I'm pleased for the devs that people are responding so well. They made a great game.
As for the enemies, thing, it was kill or be killed, no matter how well the game humanised them. They were still humans who wanted to kill her.
I'm pleased for the devs that people are responding so well. They made a great game.
As for the enemies, thing, it was kill or be killed, no matter how well the game humanised them. They were still humans who wanted to kill her.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Stop following Metacritic.
here is the TressFX hair after the patch, video is still processing though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwVnBdzUWNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwVnBdzUWNY
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I guess they still forgot to fix which way it's blowing.
captainnapalm
Member
I find the user score more reliable than the critic one, but I don't allow either of them to make up my mind. Was just pointing out the rarity of an AAA game scoring so high with both critics and users.
I'm currently at that ShantyTown section. Am i far from the end?
Unfortunately, i'm not enjoying the game as much as i had hoped. I love 3rd person action/adventure/shooter/puzzle games but i feel kind of bored going through this game. After the initial enthusiasm settled down, i didn't have any particular feelings towards this game since then and i'm just going through the game until i reach the end. Sure, great production values without a doubt and it's obvious a lot of hard work was put into this game. A true modern day AAA blockbuster game...
It's as if the developers tried to cram each and every fashionable modern game mechanic into this game (xp, traversal without skill, cutscenes with QTE, open world-ish hubs that don't add much to the experience, extremely easy to no puzzles, cinematic, setpieces...) but the overall game feels rather boring and very formulaic, if that make sense. Cutscene, a bit of extremely easy traversal, shoot-out, spectacular setpiece with QTE to narrowly escape, easy traversal that is only there to move through the game, shoot-out,... and so on and on. Story and characters feel very flat. Also, i think there is something with the framerate being constantly kind of low-ish (on PS3) that makes it feel less smooth. The very few times that thinking appears to be required, the game throws the solution in your face to make sure that the player "doesn't get bored".
It's strange. This game seems to have borrowed a lot from Uncharted. And i absolutely loved Uncharted 1+2 and i will forever love those games. But i got bored by Uncharted 3 (too much setpiece orientated) and Golden Abyss (too much easy traversal). I feel the same about this Tomb Raider. Maybe the formula is getting stale for me. I think game developers are taking the "cinematic" angle way too serious in these last couple of years. At this point, i'm yearning for some old fashion skill based platforming and shooting. Also, developers, please get rid of those QTE setpiece sections that probably take half the game budget to make and don't add anything special to the game.
In the end, i'm not feeling like i'm playing much of a game, but more a movie with gameplay thrown it to bridge the sections between the cutscenes and cinematic QTE setpieces.
Unfortunately, i'm not enjoying the game as much as i had hoped. I love 3rd person action/adventure/shooter/puzzle games but i feel kind of bored going through this game. After the initial enthusiasm settled down, i didn't have any particular feelings towards this game since then and i'm just going through the game until i reach the end. Sure, great production values without a doubt and it's obvious a lot of hard work was put into this game. A true modern day AAA blockbuster game...
It's as if the developers tried to cram each and every fashionable modern game mechanic into this game (xp, traversal without skill, cutscenes with QTE, open world-ish hubs that don't add much to the experience, extremely easy to no puzzles, cinematic, setpieces...) but the overall game feels rather boring and very formulaic, if that make sense. Cutscene, a bit of extremely easy traversal, shoot-out, spectacular setpiece with QTE to narrowly escape, easy traversal that is only there to move through the game, shoot-out,... and so on and on. Story and characters feel very flat. Also, i think there is something with the framerate being constantly kind of low-ish (on PS3) that makes it feel less smooth. The very few times that thinking appears to be required, the game throws the solution in your face to make sure that the player "doesn't get bored".
It's strange. This game seems to have borrowed a lot from Uncharted. And i absolutely loved Uncharted 1+2 and i will forever love those games. But i got bored by Uncharted 3 (too much setpiece orientated) and Golden Abyss (too much easy traversal). I feel the same about this Tomb Raider. Maybe the formula is getting stale for me. I think game developers are taking the "cinematic" angle way too serious in these last couple of years. At this point, i'm yearning for some old fashion skill based platforming and shooting. Also, developers, please get rid of those QTE setpiece sections that probably take half the game budget to make and don't add anything special to the game.
In the end, i'm not feeling like i'm playing much of a game, but more a movie with gameplay thrown it to bridge the sections between the cutscenes and cinematic QTE setpieces.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah thats it, I find the convos they have entertaining myself
Depending on how far you are into Shantytown, you are past the half way point. The start of Shantytown is roughly 50% of the game.
Lapidus' Beard
Member
I just got all of the collectables.
And yet another LOST reference came across as I
The classic "secret found" sound was a nice surprise!
got all of the GPS transmitters. From the secret document: 'That name again... Trinity. Some kind of organisation. But who are they? And how do they know about this island?' I bet it's Charles Widmore!
Finished the game. Very much enjoyed it. The combat was pretty cool but repetitive, and it gets kinda old taking on wave after wave. I want to be a survivor, not a mass murderer 
Game was incredibly easy, used my bow for 99% of it.
Got 77% completion, did not really focus on collecting/searching for stuff so that's fine, might go back and explore some more.
Game was incredibly easy, used my bow for 99% of it.
Got 77% completion, did not really focus on collecting/searching for stuff so that's fine, might go back and explore some more.
After the patch is looks more convincing, still freaks out sometimes though.