UpperCaseN
Member
I just beat it. I told myself that I would go back and grind for salvage + xp to get those last upgrades but I'm not sure I feel like it now, hmm
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Tomb Raider |OT| Lara's Misfortune
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
Trent Strong
Banned
Shaky-cam was a terrible idea. Worst QTEs in a video game, and all QTEs are bad. Frame rate on the 360 is unacceptable.
I've been pretty impressed by the enemy's characterization in this game. Sneaking up on them and just listening to them talk is kinda fun. Most of them are just normal dudes playing chess, or complaining about being stuck on the island themselves. They're just as desperate as Lara to get off, too.
But then they start yelling and shooting, and we can't have that.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I was about to mention that myself. I actually really like how the enemies actually... feel like brothers. Desperate people, trapped here. They cry for help from their comrades when wounded, tell them to get down, all that stuff. It's great when you can at least get a sense of characterization and camaraderie to the faceless hordes you have to deal with. Even when most of them are broken, psychotic, and just plain insane. Very nice touches from CD.
It's pretty funny, later in the game, a few Solarii comment on how one women has pretty much massacred everyone and they're like, "What the fuck is going on!?"
I think my favorite exchange between two Solarii was where one of them had the sense to realize Lara was an actual threat,
"It's just one girl!"
"Yeah? Well, we're getting our asses handed to us, by one girl!"
Enemy dialogue in this game is great, whether you're in combat or out of it, CD brought the Solarii to life and sometimes, I think twice before killing them.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
This is pretty much exactly how I'm playing.
Actually, when you start looking for shit to jump to, there's a fair amount of effort that went into making a lot of the environment climbable. It's just that so little seems to be there for any other reason.
The game is so impressive in a lot of ways that it seems a shame so much of the environment is wallpaper.
I'm playing on hard on PS3, and man am I shit at shooters. I am not looking forward to the clusterfucks people are saying I have in store. Maybe I'm just off tonight, Vanquish was going swimmingly.
Did I miss something in the story because there are no female survivors on the island aside from Lara's crew?
By the way in the place where you find your first Tomb in Shantytown, on your runthrough after you complete the game 3 guys are praying really loudly to the Sun goddess or some shit. It was some hilarious stuff.
By the way in the place where you find your first Tomb in Shantytown, on your runthrough after you complete the game 3 guys are praying really loudly to the Sun goddess or some shit. It was some hilarious stuff.
I got the sense that the
cult had them all sacrificed/burned.
Well, they do seem to have a habit of
burning them alive
That bugged me, because through their dialogue it's pretty clear that most of Solarii are victims who just want to survive and go home. Some of them even comment on how they don't want to kill and how the Russians were assholes who killed for fun. Then along comes their angel of death. And as soon as they are alerted, regardless of whatever they said that was counter to violent behavior, the AI would turn into mindless killers. Lara commits an extreme case of fundamental attribution error in this game. She murders because the situation forces her to, but the Solarii are just insane murderers!
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Well, it was pretty clear from the Monastery bit what happened to them.
Well, it's either kill Lara or deal with Brother Mathias.
There are documents that tell what happened to these men to break them. I can find it believable sorta that they're just totally insane and will just try to kill outsiders.
The events in the game itself + the documents paint enough of a picture of the island and the inhabitants to justify their villainy.
And if you're someone who is being chased and relentlessly shot at by dozens of dudes on an island, you aren't going to stop and wonder if the next two guys with guns dressed just like the others you see might not 100% agree with them. You're gonna gun em down just the same.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The worst part is... we see sympathetic aspects to these people, but then you realize that
every single one of these men was complicit in the sacrifice, torture, and burning of countless women, amongst all the other atrocities.
Shit, death is a mercy for these people. This island makes the Rook Islands from Far Cry 3 look like fucking Disneyland. It's rare that I encounter villains in games that I wanna kill as much as I wanna kill the Solarii. The Solarii are desperation taken to its furthest extreme.
But you just listened to their conversation and they said they were against what they were doing. Why have that dialog if they're just going to turn into mindless enemies as soon as you engage them? And Lara automatically jumps to calling them "insane murderers" to justify her killing of them when it's clear from all the research she does throughout the game that they are victims as much as she is, and she never questions whether she should try to save them as well. Cults are real, and everyone is susceptible to being brainwashed into one. And people can be saved from cults. If a cultist is trying to kill you, of course kill them, but don't try to justify what you did by writing them off as less than human. It's clear most of them haven't lost their humanity since a lot of them care about their brothers to the point of wanting revenge.
Being complicit against your will doesn't justify apathy towards them. They are still victims. Do you think in cases like Jonestown that the people deserved to die? It would have been better off if they didn't put that dissonance in the game if Lara wasn't going to react to it. She outright gets called out on it and she still doesn't react.
GillianSeed79
Member
I rented this from Red Box tonight. I'm not sure I get what the horrible backlash was about other than it's more of an Uncharted game than a Tomb Raider game and the horrible PR.
Going from the internet rage I half thought Laura would be raped in the first five minutes of the game and she would be some weak, stereotypical female protagonist.
From the few hours I played it felt like a completely serviceable big budget game. It felt like the platforming of Uncharted, the audiologs of Bioshock and the collectables of RE4. I actually found the opening hours less offensive than the story in Far Cry 3. I've never been accused of having good taste, but I've actually had more fun with Tomb Raider than Far Cry 3.
The thing that bugs me is that I can't believe I heard criticism against this game on a popular podcast that shall not be named where the reviewer essentially said that he found it unrealistic and off-putting that Laura could actually aim her bow realistically after first getting it.
First off, it's a video game. Second of all, the bow is actually fun to use unlike Far Cry 3. I can't help but think if this game's star was Nathan Drake or Jason Brody, it wouldn't have gotten half the outrage. Some of the criticism like the it's unrealistic for a girl to be able to aim a bow so well even comes off as patronizing if not sexist. Which is completely ironic considering the game was being panned in the preview phase for being misogynistic. Eh, just my two cents.
Going from the internet rage I half thought Laura would be raped in the first five minutes of the game and she would be some weak, stereotypical female protagonist.
From the few hours I played it felt like a completely serviceable big budget game. It felt like the platforming of Uncharted, the audiologs of Bioshock and the collectables of RE4. I actually found the opening hours less offensive than the story in Far Cry 3. I've never been accused of having good taste, but I've actually had more fun with Tomb Raider than Far Cry 3.
The thing that bugs me is that I can't believe I heard criticism against this game on a popular podcast that shall not be named where the reviewer essentially said that he found it unrealistic and off-putting that Laura could actually aim her bow realistically after first getting it.
First off, it's a video game. Second of all, the bow is actually fun to use unlike Far Cry 3. I can't help but think if this game's star was Nathan Drake or Jason Brody, it wouldn't have gotten half the outrage. Some of the criticism like the it's unrealistic for a girl to be able to aim a bow so well even comes off as patronizing if not sexist. Which is completely ironic considering the game was being panned in the preview phase for being misogynistic. Eh, just my two cents.
Very impressed with the game about 3 hours in. I think they took the best from Uncharted without making an outright clone. Definitely appreciate that they didn't set out just to make a shoot-em-up. The platforming mechanics are more sophisticated than Uncharted, but the level design isn't necessarily.
Oh, and how is it that GAF loves this game in spite of its frequent QTEs? I thought GAF hated QTEs?
Oh, and how is it that GAF loves this game in spite of its frequent QTEs? I thought GAF hated QTEs?
I love you Heavy Rain
toddhunter
Member
Did anybody else notice on one large enemy:
(mild location spoiler)
The big guy on the "ship" that you take down has a little toy rabbit sticking out of his pants. A good luck charm from his daughter? Something he was taking home to her? I did wonder about it, which was a nice touch. Of course the game didn't "go there" and it might have been a shout out to a developer or something but I still felt it was an interesting moment (before you brutally kill him with your pick-axe with multiple blows to the head)
Sort of left my thinking "what could have been" and with the sequel more than likely "what never will be".
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Well damn :/
Better practice getting my reaction time up to speed, but at least its good to know that the game let's me restart near the part I messed up.
Well now I know what I should use my next skill point on.
Also thank you for answering my questions.
Just play on easy. They're easy.
Quicksilver4648
Member
Yeah, I just wanted to tag onto the discussion here and say that the enemies weren't your typical mercenaries as found in most games. They didn't join into the organization by choice for personal profit. Everyone of them were survivors on the island. This might be a bit spoilerish so I am going to hide it but it is mostly just back story.
These weren't like the guys from Deus Ex: Human Revolution who could have just hopped the fence and left the company once stuff started to get crazy.
Most men, women, and all children were killed immediately after being captured. Some select women were chosen for burning rituals and only the strongest and, for a lack of a better word, simple minded men were given the choice to survive. They didn't want any strong minded men rocking the philosophical-boat. The men who chose to survive were thrown in cages and pits for weeks without food to crop out the weak. To survive they had to murder, and much worse, the other prisoners. If they managed to not die then were allowed into the brotherhood. Yes, they were all once innocent survivors but everyone you fought against were mentally disturbed murders.
What exactly happened when Lara gets captured mid-game?
The Solarii guys incapacitate her, then those guys get massacred by some giant supernatural Oni warrior....then for no apparent reason she's hanging upside down in a room full of dead, flayed bodies? Is this every explained in any logical way?
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I think
that the Oni knock her out and prep her to be apparently eaten or killed later, as judged by the dead bodies lying around and hanging upside down like food. She got clubbed by one of the Oni, iirc.
Quicksilver4648
Member
From what I saw those Oni guys REALLY like hanging people upside down and killing them. Seriously, you see people hanging all over the island. After Lara breaks free and scurries over to the hole in the wall she sees that big Oni walk in. I assume he was going to kill her but once he noticed that she was missing it seemed as if he just shrugged his shoulders and left the room.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Nah, I chose Normal mode like every other time as my first setting when playing a new game. I'm pretty sure I've been tainted into thinking "Easy mode = Baby mode" thanks to my buddies.
And wait are the QTE different on each difficulty setting?
They seem to have a good amount of lines celebrating her death if they kill you, which is pretty cool.
But they weren't all mentally disturbed murderers. A lot of the guys you kill are pretty clear headed when they talk, they're just fearful of their leaders,
the oni
2 guys even get shot by more deranged cult members for doing so.
Yes, several times those lines wouldn't match the personalities they displayed in the conversations they had before you engaged them. You'd have a guy talking about he hated what the cult was doing, then you alert him and he suddenly turns into a generic psychopath.
So what is your point exactly?
That there should be a "let's be friends" game mechanic implemented, or that CD shouldn't have bothered to humanize the villains at all?
I know I didn't regret killing a single one of the enemies in this game and considering the position that Lara is in, I don't see how it benefits the narrative whatsoever to start to feel remorse for the people she's killing, and nothing in the game so far has given her a reason to do so.
dark_chris
Member
Rented this game at Redbox.
Fantastic game! I loved it.
This is also my first Tomb Raider game as well.
Fantastic game! I loved it.
This is also my first Tomb Raider game as well.
Lysander91
Banned
So every time I want to play this game I need to delete my game installation on my 360 and reinstall it or else the game freezes when I load it. FUN FUN FUN!!!!!
toastyToast
Member
It would have been cool if (ending spoiler)
No way that was gonna happen seeing as how they were the evil male oppressors
the rescue ship went back for the remaining Solarii and maybe a scene showing them dealing with the hold over them being broken
No way that was gonna happen seeing as how they were the evil male oppressors
I always play Easy because my backlog is huge and I just want to see the story / scenery / interfaces, and yes the QTEs are very easy on easy.
Watch out man, saying that kinda stuff is gonna get you labeled as a lowest common denominator video game industry ruiner by some people here.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Ok, what the fuck is up with the shaky cam?
Why?
Why?
They shouldn't have given the Solarii sympathetic dialog if their behavior wasn't going to match what they said or have any relevance to the plot. Why have a guy talk about how he hates the violence and just wants to go home if he's going to just turn into a bloodthirsty psychopath as soon as he's engaged? Why have documents detailing how the Solarii are victims?
Lara is quick to judge them as if they are bad people rather than normal people in a bad situation with lines like "they're insane murderers" and "That's right you bastards! I'm coming for you all!" She forgets she herself is a normal person in a bad situation killing lots and lots of people. It doesn't even phase her. Why does Crystal Dynamics even bring up these issues in the first place if they're not going to do anything with them?
They could have had a scene at the end
showing the remaining Solarii rejoicing at their freedom and thanking Lara.
I've been here 9 years, and that crowd already knows I'm a phony.
Beat it last night.
+ Production values are really high as everyone already has said
+ Graphics on my PC are super ridiculous
+ Cover mechanic well implemented without the use of a button
+ All the weapons feel very tight
+ Survivor mode makes it very clear where you need to go
+ Lara's redesign
+ Metroid-esque design
- Story. Zzzzzzz.
- All of Lara's friends
- QTE's need to go away forever. Shitty way to implement 'gameplay.'
- Cinematic escape sequences start to feel boring once you realize 90% of them you can just run forward and jump without much precision.
- Combat is ridiculously easy
- Enemy AI is pathetic
- Lots of the skill point upgrades seemed trivial/useless
- Puzzles way too simple
- Hidden optional tombs are borderline offensive in ease of difficulty
All in all pretty decent, probably give it around an 8/10 or something. Really wish they would've gone more for a survival game than a TPS one but I get that they wanted to make an Uncharted clone. Hopefully they can flesh out their ideas and make the inevitable sequel even better.
+ Production values are really high as everyone already has said
+ Graphics on my PC are super ridiculous
+ Cover mechanic well implemented without the use of a button
+ All the weapons feel very tight
+ Survivor mode makes it very clear where you need to go
+ Lara's redesign
+ Metroid-esque design
- Story. Zzzzzzz.
- All of Lara's friends
- QTE's need to go away forever. Shitty way to implement 'gameplay.'
- Cinematic escape sequences start to feel boring once you realize 90% of them you can just run forward and jump without much precision.
- Combat is ridiculously easy
- Enemy AI is pathetic
- Lots of the skill point upgrades seemed trivial/useless
- Puzzles way too simple
- Hidden optional tombs are borderline offensive in ease of difficulty
All in all pretty decent, probably give it around an 8/10 or something. Really wish they would've gone more for a survival game than a TPS one but I get that they wanted to make an Uncharted clone. Hopefully they can flesh out their ideas and make the inevitable sequel even better.
Lysander91
Banned
Everyone knows that gaming isn't about fun or the experience. It's about showing how you're better than everyone else by playing on the hardest difficulty! Only those stupid casual CoD babies don't care about being challenged... oh wait.
Phonomezer
Banned
Just went back and got 100% for everything... sad now Can't wait for DLC!
Also thinking back to the very beginning of the game
Can't wait for DLC!Also thinking back to the very beginning of the game
who were the guys in the caves you first encounter? I seem to recall them pleading with her to wait rather than trying to kill her. Were just escapee's from the Solarii?
toastyToast
Member
The narrative doesn't seem to go all in on anything especially the parallel between Lara and the islands inhabitants.
What was it building up to? That throwaway you're a killer too line? Which funnily enough
Lara responds to by killing more peole
To be honest it just seems like you did not play the same game as I did, because nothing you say is at all what the game itself has inferred to me.
The documents may have painted the survivors overall as victims, but its clear none of them are good people. Just because some guy may want to go home is not going to make me rethink shooting him in the face considering the context of the game.
Mathias also wants to leave the Island, doesn't mean he's not worth killing
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
The irony of "Secret Tomb nearby". Amazing.
All of the people on the island are survivors of various ships and planes that wrecked on the island. Unless an abnormal amount of vehicles carrying psychopathic prisoners crashed into the island we can assume a majority of them were normal people who were forced into the cult in order to survive. The dialog of a bunch of these guys is that of desperate survivors and people who had been brainwashed, not of psychopaths who take joy in killing. Many of them scream things like "You killed our brother(s)!" and exclaim in fear that Lara's wave of death has come their way. Many of them do appear to be psychopathic assholes, but not all of them, especially not the guys with the sympathetic dialog. It's kill or be killed; by Lara, by the cult leaders, or by
the Oni.
toastyToast
Member
Mathias is
the leader of a cult of the most mentally deficient, most easily manipulable people that washed up on the island. Their initiation involves breaking them by starving them in a steaming-hot subterranean cavern until their numbers are depleted and only adding the most hardened of them to his stable. There's nothing to suggest that these guys were criminals or otherwise deserving of this fate. They got put into a shitty situation, just like Lara. Unlike Lara, they don't have the mental acuity to find themselves an out
RedAssedApe
Banned
the beginning was confusing.
i thought all of the friends had gotten captured and glasses/tech guy got shot...i guess it was just some random glasses guy laying dead on the ground. where did those other captives come from? were they part of the ships crew or just some other random ppl that had coincidentally also gotten shipwrecked?
Well yeah. Sucks, but they're corrupted, they kill, torture and kidnap new survivors,
burn women because their leader tells them to
Why should I feel bad for killing them considering the situation that the character that Im playing as is in.