UncleSporky
Member
what is the functionality of fame? sorry i don't play TL1
Primarily, you get a skill point for each level in it.
I don't recall whether it means cheaper purchases or better quest rewards...I doubt it. Just another thing to level.
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Torchlight II |OT| Good things come to those who wait
- Thread starter jim-jam bongs
- Start date
Primarily, you get a skill point for each level in it.
I don't recall whether it means cheaper purchases or better quest rewards...I doubt it. Just another thing to level.
Man, some of the comments get under my skin in a very, very specific way. Almost feel embarassed by the amount of fun I had with my first Diablo III playtrough.
In ontopic-related news, FUCK the bats on the highest difficulty. Four/eight of them, all taking one third of my hp, and being "extra fast", AND summoning others? And this for half a floor? While I am using a LEGENDARY shield? Fuck.
In ontopic-related news, FUCK the bats on the highest difficulty. Four/eight of them, all taking one third of my hp, and being "extra fast", AND summoning others? And this for half a floor? While I am using a LEGENDARY shield? Fuck.
Games that have the ability to build specs generally require a way to respec. Even Diablo 2 has it now. You do not gain a significant amount of replayability by locking people into a build for extended periods of leveling. Especially when you want any sort of end game content because it completely drains the will of a player if they reach the level cap after a significant time investment and they realize they're fucked because of a misplaced skill point. Remember, PvP is eventually going to be a thing and now they have a post leveling process level grind.
The amount of customers they lost because people want to level up the same class over and over to try different builds is negligible, and if those people enjoyed the game enough to even want to do that then it is likely they would be willing to level a different class. It is simply a better system for any game that wants a solid post leveling cap gaming environment.
Also keep in mind that if traditional respecs were floating around at an NPC in town (ala WoW), you now make the optimal play pattern for solo play going back to town and respecing before every hard encounter. Blizzards gameplay mechanics for Diablo 3 are great, the game just has significant deficiencies elsewhere.
Started a Weapon/shield Engineer and really felt weak on the offensive side, then I found a new shield with twice the armor ! GAME CHANGER !
Seems like the weapons in the early stages really make a difference.
Not really, it really hurts replayability, you never have a reason to restart a character again, and swapping skills isn't really the same thing than starting and theming an entirely new character.
There is a reason why they're still desperately adding out content 5 month after release.
This is not re-playability, it's archaic game design, as are some other choices in TL2. Maybe in TL3, Runic will see the light and actually go with some game design that isn't circa 1998.
Do you mean unique shield? Legendary doesn't start dropping until ng+ (or thereabouts).
Plus the fact that they shipped an unfinished game that took them what 3 patches to make it crawl out of Beta.
Paragon is just a way to stall people, you basically play the same content over again to level 100 new levels stuck in the same difficulty that become easier the more you level and gain bonuses.
You just end up in the same spot that you was before when you're done.
And now that the challenge has diminished significantly they are going to throw Uber bosses to ease the crowd ...
Doesn't seem like a long term plan to me but rather like some guys trying to fix leaks on a sinking boat.
Don't get me wrong, the changes they made on itemization, the way pets scale and the overal balances changes are very positive things, but the two first should have been done right at launch.
I see a lot of people in this thread, and elsewhere covering the 'flaws' of Torchlight 2 behind the $20 price tag.
I personally think that when you put things in perspective and consider the means and manpower between the two games, Runic did a hell of a better job than Blizz did.
Well enough of that for me i'm off playing again.
Does anyone else playing on elite do 1 damage most of the time? I would say that 60% of my hits do 1 damage.
I've written a couple posts on the subject of Diablo 2's patch history. I can dig it up if you really want to read the whole thing, but the short version is that Diablo 2's only major patch was 1.10 -- which came out in 2003 -- and people were definitely playing the game just fine before that. Obviously, the other significant event in its timeline is the release of Lord of Destruction, but there was over a year of mostly unpatched classic ("classic" as in nonexpansion) Diablo 2. The breadth of the changes that Diablo 3 is currently undergoing are not at all comparable to the patch history of Diablo 2, which consisted almost entirely of minor skill tweaks (jab, whirlwind, blessed hammer, and corpse explosion were the most significant recipients) and bug fixes.
It did fall apart late game, but loot and difficulty were still boring all the way up to late Hell (well, loot is still boring regardless of level in D3), and that's where Torchlight 2 is shining for me right now.
I disagree.
The idea with D2, and other loot games like Torchlight 2 (I presume) and Path of Exile is that playing through the game is challenging and exciting the whole way through. When you twink out new characters, you can play through quicker and explore less since you're less reliant on drops on XP. Remaking a character and leveling them to the cap shouldn't be seen as a chore.
The issue with Diablo 3 is that replaying it with new characters is a chore all the way up to Hell or early Inferno, since there's literally no challenge involved. It's just a long, linear grind. There's no way to really speed it up significantly with better gear.
Oh, please. The game was hardly unfinished. That's a bit of a stretch. It had some issues with certain systems (namely the itemization and endgame, which like you've mentioned has been taken care of) but it also had perfect, extremely tight, gameplay.
Yeah, TL2 didn't have the same means as Blizzard, as evidenced by the art, and gameplay as a whole...but it's not like that comforts me and somehow makes the game better. I'll never really get why consumers sympathize with developers because they're a small or less experienced team. You either make a better game or you don't, I could care less about what resources got you there.
sazzy
Member
TL2 is great and fun, but I seriously doubt the mental aptitude of
people who say its more polished than D3
I'm really big on awesome loot. While D3 does its combat better, TL2's loot is just in another league. I'm in loot heaven with TL2. (Really looking for a decent shield atm, all my other slots are good, just need a good shield but none are dropping).
That's true, but there's good reason for D3's backslash. It is and will be a much more polished than TL2, but the problem is that for a lot of people the game just wasn't fun...at all. The development team did some great improvements, it's got that Blizzard feel and quality, but for me the most important parts of an ARPG like loot, pacing, maps weren't anywhere near D2, TQ or Sacred. As for the DRM and RMAH, they were very good at destroying whatever interested I had left in the game and the reason I didn't buy the game myself.
But enough's enough, this TL2 thread after all and speaking of which, I really dig the map generator; the outside areas have enough variety and complexity, but still have believable geography and it's nice easily distinguish the "extra" paths from the main road. They almost feel like hand-made even though the end result isn't as good as Titan Quest's fully hand-designed.
My biggest gripe with the game remains the UI which isn't very well styled and it seems to blow right in your face. Hopefully TorchED will give some tools for modifying it and at least the font should be customisable like in the first one.
I definitely agree with you there. Seeing loot drop is pretty much always exciting in Torchlight and in D3 it is just seeing that you got the same pair of gloves but with 5 more Dex and Vit. I am a min-maxer in games so the loot in D3 doesn't bother me but the genuine excitement from Torchlight loot is fantastic.
The UI definitely needs some touch-up and hopefully the modding toolkit will allow for improvements.
Don't get me started on the plastic health and mana orbs :/
UncleSporky
Member
It depends on what you mean by polished. Graphics only? Items, skills, the whole package?
I think going by the ratio of complainers vs. satisfied customers is as good a metric as any. "Polished" in this case can simply be another word for "better," and being subjective I'd let the people decide on that.
Another thing I like about TL2 that Blizzard still cant seem to get right with D3 for some reason, is the fact that the volume balance between music and sound is done right. I dont have to lower sound to minimal levels and then crank music volume as well as my PC volume, just to hear the soundtrack.
Diablo 3's mix was and still is way off, sounds are so much louder than everything else, even at lower levels. Music was damn near silent compared to effects.
Diablo 3's mix was and still is way off, sounds are so much louder than everything else, even at lower levels. Music was damn near silent compared to effects.
I didn't think there's anything wrong with them (as in I just didn't pay any attention, but now they will bug me, thanks), but I'll certainly look into changing them when the TorchED gets released.
Click the magnifying glass on the bottom of the screen.
sazzy
Member
Incredibly tight gameplay and combat, art, music and sound, and controls. In D3 I mean.
the magnifying glass icon toggles it.
Whole package.
Graphics/Art, Gameplay (tightness, responsiveness, feedback), UI are where I'd say TL2 is lacking. Graphics/Art is understandable, and the Gameplay isn't horrible (just not up to D3 level), but I'd expect a better UI.
Items was where D3 was lacking.
I'm pretty satisfied with both skill systems.
I linked my Steam account, though presumably no one wants to play now.
These games really need some sort of system to scale yourself down in level so you can play with your friends.
I wouldn't say it is archaic, but it does serve a completely different purpose. D3 allows for better replayability on a character, TL2's system allows for more interesting character progression on early playthroughs.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Can I register for online play yet
UncleSporky
Member
But these things are subjective. If more people disagree with you than agree, well...
The pathfinding in this game is frustratingly terrible. I just keep running into the same issues over and over again, and it's starting to go from a negligible annoyance to a frequent source of frustration.
I do have to say, though, the difficulty curve on Normal ramps up quite nicely. I'm actually getting to parts that are rather difficult and require a lot of potion spam. Rather than the walk in the park that Diablo III on Normal was.
I've actually died a few times in Torchlight II.
I do have to say, though, the difficulty curve on Normal ramps up quite nicely. I'm actually getting to parts that are rather difficult and require a lot of potion spam. Rather than the walk in the park that Diablo III on Normal was.
I've actually died a few times in Torchlight II.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I'm rather confused about pathfinding problems unless it's something that crops up at like level 30 and thus something I haven't really seen yet.
Are you using some sort of cross-map navigation I don't know about? Otherwise clicking a map area should make the player walk to it, which shouldn't have any problems unless there are enemies in the way.
Are you using some sort of cross-map navigation I don't know about? Otherwise clicking a map area should make the player walk to it, which shouldn't have any problems unless there are enemies in the way.
The games are just designed differently. It would be unreasonable for Blizzard to expect someone to level a new character from 1-60 again (which takes a lot longer than playing through TL2) everytime they patched in a change. In D2 it wasn't bad because rushing was common and you could get from 1-70ish in like 5 hours. The game also wasn't balanced around people being at a level cap, and leveling up after 80 wasn't really necessary for most builds.
The only thing subjective on that list is music/sound...
Wouldn't Normal on TL2 be equivalent to NM in D3? Not that they're really comparable.
This is my Torchlight 2 experience. The effects were absurdly loud while the music was barely audible.
Then again, I've come to accept that every single game in the history of ever will need me to tweak the sound settings.
Oh, is it?
In that case I would say they're comparable in difficulty then. I like that Torchlight II allows you to select your difficulty right off the bat, rather than having to play through the content multiple times to get to any sort of real challenge and mouse-clicking finesse.
UncleSporky
Member
That's ridiculous. Sometimes individuals hate certain controls/gameplay feel while most love it, or the other way around. There is no one standard you can point to and say "yes, that game controls optimally, in a measurable way." You simply can't.
Graphics too. Some people think Wind Waker still looks better than the most realistically textured/modeled games today. This can apply to Torchlight as well, with the style it has chosen. It's completely subjective.
I'm assuming so at least, since TL2 has the easy difficulty. Difference is obviously that it doesn't force you to go through it.
Please. D3 is way more responsive, tight, gameplay. It gives much better feedback to the user when you're hitting/being hit. And the UI is not even close.
Graphics/art I suppose can be subjective. But they use basically the same style and D3 just does it better. Blizzard has one of the best art teams in the industry.
Agreed on the design decisions, the games are trying to achieve different things. I do very much prefer D3s potion system though. Potions are just an unstable band aid for uneven difficult on combat encounters, and they tend to overshadow the rest of the game's combat mechanics around end game. Torchlight 2 might not have this issue if they neglected to include an end game goal, not sure since I'm only up to level 10. It is still a little disheartening to run into a hard boss and be forced to down some pots to keep going.
And despite Diablo 2 being easy to rush in, build respecs were still added in.
theytookourjobz
Junior Member
Yep. Town Portal scrolls and Identify scrolls should have got scrapped.
TL2 on the other hand has faster, better flow in the combat and I really like the classic ARPG combat. Pretty much everything boils down to personal prefence, especially since the design choices are very different for the two games.
Yeah, I agree on the potions thing. It can lead to lazy balancing since the devs always have those to fall back on. But there is a cooldown so it won't be like D2 where you'd stack 16 full rejuv potions and just go to town.
They were added in, but it was so far after the fact that I spent the majority of my time playing that game without them. Never minded, though.
I can agree with this 100%. Again, Torchlight II is $20 and Diablo III was $60. I feel like you have to take that into consideration when comparing the two, and Torchlight II does hold up to me as a budget game.
If Torchlight II was $60 I would be shitting all over it, but it's not, so I'm very satisfied.
Piercedveil
Member
Just made it to act two. Can't wait to continue tonight. Act one only took me about six hours, which was a little surprising to me because I thought Runic had said that each act was longer than the first game, or am I wrong? I'm loving the game and I don't want it to end too soon lol
If Torchlight 2 was $60 I'm not sure I would have prebought it, but I think I would still be satisfied. Its just fun to play. Then again I have no issue paying full price for games (even then gaming isn't an expensive hobby) so I could be an edge case.