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[Risette]

Hey guys, ive been trying for a while to get my gf(mtf) to save up money for the eventual transition, but ive run into two huge problems

1) not nearly enough money
2) shes horrified of starting and changing her body

Ive been thinking of taking her to a type of seminar at a university near by that teaches kind of how to deal with it all, but im wondering if you guys have any suggestion on either fronts. Is there some type of aid we can get both monetary and psychologically?

Well, therapy is the easy/safe answer, if you're not already doing it. You could probably go with her there too, if she wanted that.

Some therapists offer special payment plans, usually ones that specialize in trans treatment (just know that specializing in trans treatment doesn't always mean good -- there's a lot of shithead therapists out there, I recommend doing research and going to any local group events to find out who's good and who isn't) because money is a common issue.

She's complaining about the comments on the jeuxvideo.com video and the fact that some people on Nesblog started a debate about gay marriage even though it has no relation with transgenderism or the subject matter (which probably was another superplay video).

I see. I could kinda pickup on some of what was being said, but... not very well.

 

[Platy]

Hey guys, ive been trying for a while to get my gf(mtf) to save up money for the eventual transition, but ive run into two huge problems

1) not nearly enough money
2) shes horrified of starting and changing her body

Ive been thinking of taking her to a type of seminar at a university near by that teaches kind of how to deal with it all, but im wondering if you guys have any suggestion on either fronts. Is there some type of aid we can get both monetary and psychologically?

Everyone has their time and what body hey feel better with
Don't rush her.

 

[lexi]

Another great article, this time in Australian mainstream press, with comments disabled!

The tide is turning, I can feel it.

 

[Platy]

The tide is turning, I can feel it.

Cute article ... but way too much mentions of her "real name" and the fact that she was a boy for me to feel any tide =P

 

[thebaroness]

Hey there everyone, I'm not a transgendered person. However I'm poking my head in this thread for the first time to try and understand people who are. I do not have anything against anyone trans, and I've very supportive of someone doing something that makes them happy.

I was reading about everything that happened with Chloe Sagal, and I'm trying to very hard to understand why someone would go through those lengths to afford a surgery to change their gender. I do not know what it feels like, so I'm hoping someone can help explain.

I do not understand the need for hormone therapy and surgery. If you feel like the opposite gender, isn't acting, dressing, talking enough to feel like yourself? Isn't being yourself what is most important? Is the need for surgery more a cosmetic desire, to get society to treat you as the gender you identify with?

For example, I had this friend who I knew for years. She was a lesbian and found a wonderful partner and the two of them were very happy together. Then sometime later, she felt a change was necessary and began the process of becoming a female-to-male (if she ever felt unhappy with her gender, she kept it to herself. She always seemed happy as a girl as a teenager). She had her breasts removed and began taking hormones. This put a large strain on their relationship and now she's debating over getting Phalloplasty to complete the transformation. I've known her so long that I still refer to her as a "she" and it offends her. But she's also still in her transition, and it's tough for me to see her as male. I've never understood her feelings so I'm just trying to understand why the need to go so far. If she felt more tomboyish, and she wanted to dress and act manly, that would be fine.

Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone, so if I did please forgive any transgressions.

 

[Platy]

Spoiler

[disclamer : I may be a little drunk, so if you don't understand anything please feel free to go "wtf" and I will explain]

Every basic cursing acts in a way to lower the person by calling the person by a way that the person does not should happly identify with.

Popular cursings in our society includes cursing of sexual orientation nature, cursing of body (like equating a nose to an elephant's nose) and cruses of personality nature.

Transgender people feel that every single time anyone in the world call us by "name" or use the pronoum, they are at the same time cursing our sexual orientation, our body AND our personality, since society expects things diferently from each other gender.

Expecting a gay people be straigh by default is simply a cursing of sexual orientation nature ... and there are a good amount of people who understand not taking the fact and exploding to transgender people who have 2 more problems instead of just sexual orientation

and yes, sexual orientation because if society expects you to be an hetero man ... it actualy feels like you should be a lesbian

So there are some people who survives more just fixing one or another ... but usualy the non fix of every aspect is unbearable at a long term.

Your friend is a dude and was ALWAYS a dude.
Trans Men usualy have it "easier" on the begining stages because it is socialy aceptable to use masculine clothing and with adequate clothing you may even pass a young boy.

But then there will be some time that a dude will notice that he wants to grow a beard and feel manly and look at his manly body and brag about his penis with other dudes and doing nothing on this meaning would be like if the mirror would be cursing him calling him a little sissy girl.

Call your friend with male pronoums. It is hard for you, but TRUST ME ON THAT, it is harder for him to hear the wrong ones since society always called it that and it is painfull to hear that coming from someone who suposed to be an ally

 

[lexi]

I do not understand the need for hormone therapy and surgery. If you feel like the opposite gender, isn't acting, dressing, talking enough to feel like yourself? Isn't being yourself what is most important? Is the need for surgery more a cosmetic desire, to get society to treat you as the gender you identify with?

No, because the body I inhabited would still be very much a male body. The idea of transition is to bring the body in line with your mind.

I actually tried to transition without hormones / surgery and it only increased the amount of anguish and dysphoria I felt. It didn't work at all.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I guess to answer the most poignant things in your post.

It varies for every trans* individual, but no, dressing, acting and even being treated like the gender you identify as simply isn't enough in some cases. Once again can't speak for every trans person but there are just things about my body physically, that unnerved me and make me depressed , and these things as they stand now can only be resolved through hormones and surgery. I've tried simply dressing up in women's clothing and much like Lexi, it just increased my dysphoria since my body was still not the way I desired .Think of it like many other aspects of health involving hormonal imbalances or body abnormalities where the only solutions are to correct the hormone levels or abnormality. In some cases these things are enough to cause severe self esteem issues, social anxiety and in some cases drive individuals to suicide.

I'd also say what "being yourself" entails is subjective, for you having genitals , hormone levels and other characteristics that match your gender identity is something that probably doesn't apply to "being yourself", since it's something you probably take as a given . But I'd implore you to think "why do I think these things aren't a part of "being yourself". For me having a penis isn't any more "me" than "acting, dressing and talking" like a guy currently is, nor being hopped up on male hormones. For me the difference between having a penis and having a vagina, even one that cant facilitate reproduction, is far from cosmetic in feeling and is very much impactful on my mental well being compared to being depressed and dare I say even suicidal for the rest of my life.

In regards to you friend, I would just say please start calling him by the pronouns he prefers. Sorry to ask more questions when you came here for answers but why can't you see your friend as male, and more importantly, why does this matter more than not making them upset? Far as I see it, the happiness of your friend should come before a few words that probably doesn't mean a lot to you, but what I must tell you means A LOT to them.

uh I guess to tldr:
1)"Isn't dressing, acting and talking like the gender they identify as enough?" In many cases no, much like a depressed person couldn't get by simply by "trying to be happy" medical intervention is needed.

2) "Being yourself" does not exclude the need for such things as hormones and surgery, what is defined as "myself" is up to every individual person and for some includes the state of their genitals or body shape or hormone levels.

3) While you may not be able to "see" someone as the gender they say they are, really what harm comes from respecting their preference?

Finally since I don't feel I did a good job of really answering you or helping to clarify anything , read the op of this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491958 .

 

[mollipen]

I do not understand the need for hormone therapy and surgery. If you feel like the opposite gender, isn't acting, dressing, talking enough to feel like yourself? Isn't being yourself what is most important? Is the need for surgery more a cosmetic desire, to get society to treat you as the gender you identify with?

If I told you that, starting tomorrow, you have to live the rest of your life with a penis, would you be happy about that situation?

If not, then the reasons why you wouldn't enjoy that life can start to speak to why some who are trans want/need surgery so badly. If you're excited by the idea, then, well, this attempt at making a point has failed. *laughs*

I've tried acting/dressing/talking. At the end of the day, I have to go back to being something that isn't that, and it's soul crushing. For me, it's playing pretend. (Though, I know, some might say transitioning is always playing pretend in their eyes.)

 

[iirate]

First, hormone therapy can have a huge effect on how a person feels, even ignoring physical effects. When my body ran on T, every bad thing that happened dragged me down and kept me there. Recovering felt insurmountable. However, after starting E, that completely turned around.

If something bad gets me down, I get upset, sometimes even more so than I would on T, but the difference is, I can more effectively express that pain to myself now and I actually get over it. I'm calmer, more assertive, and much, much happier.

I went camping with my four best friends a couple of months back, and as the conversations turned more personal that night, I ended up mentioning to them that "you can't believe how good estrogen has been to me". Immediately, several chimed in, practically talking over each other about how good I look now, how much they like my hair, etc. I was really flattered, but that wasn't what I meant. The biggest change has been on the inside.

That being said, I don't want to discount the importance of physical changes, too. Often, I find myself wearing guy clothes that I HATE simply because a lot of my other clothing doesn't work with my body shape the way I want it to yet. I've been on hormones for around 9 months now and have come a long way, but it still takes time. I'm finally getting to the point where I'm gendered female by strangers far more often than I'm gendered male, and you can't understand how much better it feels to introduce yourself and not have to explain to them why this "dude" they're looking at has a woman's name. Without hormones, many would never reach that point.

I could go on, but I feel like I've already ranted enough, I hope that helps!

 

[thebaroness]

Spoiler

[disclamer : I may be a little drunk, so if you don't understand anything please feel free to go "wtf" and I will explain]

Every basic cursing acts in a way to lower the person by calling the person by a way that the person does not should happly identify with.

Popular cursings in our society includes cursing of sexual orientation nature, cursing of body (like equating a nose to an elephant's nose) and cruses of personality nature.

Transgender people feel that every single time anyone in the world call us by "name" or use the pronoum, they are at the same time cursing our sexual orientation, our body AND our personality, since society expects things diferently from each other gender.

Expecting a gay people be straigh by default is simply a cursing of sexual orientation nature ... and there are a good amount of people who understand not taking the fact and exploding to transgender people who have 2 more problems instead of just sexual orientation

and yes, sexual orientation because if society expects you to be an hetero man ... it actualy feels like you should be a lesbian

So there are some people who survives more just fixing one or another ... but usualy the non fix of every aspect is unbearable at a long term.

Your friend is a dude and was ALWAYS a dude.
Trans Men usualy have it "easier" on the begining stages because it is socialy aceptable to use masculine clothing and with adequate clothing you may even pass a young boy.

But then there will be some time that a dude will notice that he wants to grow a beard and feel manly and look at his manly body and brag about his penis with other dudes and doing nothing on this meaning would be like if the mirror would be cursing him calling him a little sissy girl.

Call your friend with male pronoums. It is hard for you, but TRUST ME ON THAT, it is harder for him to hear the wrong ones since society always called it that and it is painfull to hear that coming from someone who suposed to be an ally

Thanks for the explanation. I don't try to still call my friend a "she". It's more a slip of the tongue when someone asks, "hey where did ____ go?" "Oh she went to the bathroom" I would never do something to maliciously make them feel bad just because I felt it was some sort of social norm. I didn't know such a thing would be so hurtful so I will try harder in the future to reference him properly.

No, because the body I inhabited would still be very much a male body. The idea of transition is to bring the body in line with your mind.

I actually tried to transition without hormones / surgery and it only increased the amount of anguish and dysphoria I felt. It didn't work at all.

I never knew it was so hurtful. I just thought it was about society accepting that you'd rather display the opposite gender's qualities. Again, I would never stop someone from getting a surgery that made them happier. I just never knew how someone transgendered felt. If the transformation has made you happier, than I'm really glad and I hope you finally feel comfortable with yourself!

I guess to answer the most poignant things in your post.

It varies for every trans* individual, but no, dressing, acting and even being treated like the gender you identify as simply isn't enough in some cases. Once again can't speak for every trans person but there are just things about my body physically, that unnerved me and make me depressed , and these things as they stand now can only be resolved through hormones and surgery. I've tried simply dressing up in women's clothing and much like Lexi, it just increased my dysphoria since my body was still not the way I desired .Think of it like many other aspects of health involving hormonal imbalances or body abnormalities where the only solutions are to correct the hormone levels or abnormality. In some cases these things are enough to cause severe self esteem issues, social anxiety and in some cases drive individuals to suicide.

I'd also say what "being yourself" entails is subjective, for you having genitals , hormone levels and other characteristics that match your gender identity is something that probably doesn't apply to "being yourself", since it's something you probably take as a given . But I'd implore you to think "why do I think these things aren't a part of "being yourself". For me having a penis isn't any more "me" than "acting, dressing and talking" like a guy currently is, nor being hopped up on male hormones. For me the difference between having a penis and having a vagina, even one that cant facilitate reproduction, is far from cosmetic in feeling and is very much impactful on my mental well being compared to being depressed and dare I say even suicidal for the rest of my life.

In regards to you friend, I would just say please start calling him by the pronouns he prefers. Sorry to ask more questions when you came here for answers but why can't you see your friend as male, and more importantly, why does this matter more than not making them upset? Far as I see it, the happiness of your friend should come before a few words that probably doesn't mean a lot to you, but what I must tell you means A LOT to them.

uh I guess to tldr:
1)"Isn't dressing, acting and talking like the gender they identify as enough?" In many cases no, much like a depressed person couldn't get by simply by "trying to be happy" medical intervention is needed.

2) "Being yourself" does not exclude the need for such things as hormones and surgery, what is defined as "myself" is up to every individual person and for some includes the state of their genitals or body shape or hormone levels.

3) While you may not be able to "see" someone as the gender they say they are, really what harm comes from respecting their preference?

Finally since I don't feel I did a good job of really answering you or helping to clarify anything , read the op of this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491958 .

You're right, it isn't important to me and it's not something I mean to do. It just slips out, but I will try to refer to him more correctly. Thank you for the reply too. I really came in here because I've never known how someone trans felt. It's helping me to understand the position so thanks for explaining so I can wrap my head around it. Thanks for linking to that thread to, it was really informative.

If I told you that, starting tomorrow, you have to live the rest of your life with a penis, would you be happy about that situation?

If not, then the reasons why you wouldn't enjoy that life can start to speak to why some who are trans want/need surgery so badly. If you're excited by the idea, then, well, this attempt at making a point has failed. *laughs*

I've tried acting/dressing/talking. At the end of the day, I have to go back to being something that isn't that, and it's soul crushing. For me, it's playing pretend. (Though, I know, some might say transitioning is always playing pretend in their eyes.)

hmm I never thought about it like that before. I suppose I wouldn't like having a penis because it would probably really mess with my sex life. I know even as a woman how long it took me to become comfortable with my own body, so I can't imagine what it must feel like to not even be comfortable in your own gender. I don't know what that kind of anguish feels like, I always thought just acting how you felt on the inside openly would be enough. I'm sorry that you have to go through it. I wish you all the best with your own transformation!

Did such a thing exist before this century and we has the medical technology to change a gender? Was a person who felt the wrong gender just doomed to live in that body and hide it before this century? (I know it's probably not well documented, I'm just very curious)

First, hormone therapy can have a huge effect on how a person feels, even ignoring physical effects. When my body ran on T, every bad thing that happened dragged me down and kept me there. Recovering felt insurmountable. However, after starting E, that completely turned around.

If something bad gets me down, I get upset, sometimes even more so than I would on T, but the difference is, I can more effectively express that pain to myself now and I actually get over it. I'm calmer, more assertive, and much, much happier.

I went camping with my four best friends a couple of months back, and as the conversations turned more personal that night, I ended up mentioning to them that "you can't believe how good estrogen has been to me". Immediately, several chimed in, practically talking over each other about how good I look now, how much they like my hair, etc. I was really flattered, but that wasn't what I meant. The biggest change has been on the inside.

That being said, I don't want to discount the importance of physical changes, too. Often, I find myself wearing guy clothes that I HATE simply because a lot of my other clothing doesn't work with my body shape the way I want it to yet. I've been on hormones for around 9 months now and have come a long way, but it still takes time. I'm finally getting to the point where I'm gendered female by strangers far more often than I'm gendered male, and you can't understand how much better it feels to introduce yourself and not have to explain to them why this "dude" they're looking at has a woman's name. Without hormones, many would never reach that point.

I could go on, but I feel like I've already ranted enough, I hope that helps!

Thank you so much for answering with your own personal story, it does help me a lot. Again, I was just ignorant that such a thing has such a large impact. I'm really happy for you if your life has gotten better, and your friends have even noticed a change in your mood!

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Well, it also has to be appreciated that "trap" has also become Internet slang for younger boys/guys who like dressing up as girls, but who may or may not be transgender. Sort of like the "otokonoko" term in Japan.

In that sense, it's a term that is often used by the people themselves, and it's become slang that doesn't necessarily have a negative connotations in a number of circles.

As I said before, I've talked many times at our panels on the word, and why it can be so negative/offensive. However, I also think it's a great example of the reality of life: that words themselves are no exactly offensive, it's the intention behind them that is.

This fits for me. I find the term useful as a modestly convincing crossdressing boy that isn't taking any hormones and who doesn't intend to transition. I can see why it would be offensive to some, though, so I eschew its use whenever possible.

 

[Platy]

Making people to try to "be at our side" is what made trans issues be trown at side while teaming up with gay movements because they think we are freaks.
It is what made people play roles to receive treatment in guidelines that fittet only the most sexist views of women ever.
It is what makes us feel "happy" for people like poison and birdo and they are the worst examples EVER for a transgender person.
It is what makes some people goes to some transition process they don't want just to fit a cisnormative society.

If something pisses me off and it is related to the thread, I will say.

And people didn't even wanted to read what I wrote, since they are starting to say that I was agains't her decision.

 

[Devolution]

Who said anything about "making people be on our side?" You went into a thread about Angelina Jolie and started going g off about trans men and cis and alll this stupid crap. It has nothing to do with "being accepted" and more to do with you tainting our image even further with your irrelevant faux outrage in the wrong venues. It lacks tact, it lacks cohesion and planning, and it lacks anything and everything to do with a functional socialization.

We are already considered a joke by others. Great, make them all make them think we have a stick up our ass by going off on random tangents and rants no one gives a fuck about. What exactly did anyone gain from your rant? Most were confused. Others, annoyed.

This goes for the rest of transgaf. The hug box ultra sensitive crap makes us look like more jokes than anything else. Trans gaf is already considered laughable due to many of the antics of the members in this thread. Thanks for giving them more ammo. You want to bring something to our cause? Stop going off on authorative random rants like on abortion (when we can't even get pregnant) and threads about breast cancer and breast removal. Instead, try explaining ina logical, and not "release the hounds because they're wrong" scattershot "strategy". It makes all look like idiots and makes me embarrassed to even post in this thread.

Platy I found your posts really antagonistic and unnecessary, in a thread about cancer no less. You didn't do anyone any favors.

 

[Platy]

This goes for the rest of transgaf. The hug box ultra sensitive crap makes us look like more jokes than anything else. Trans gaf is already considered laughable due to many of the antics of the members in this thread. Thanks for giving them more ammo. You want to bring something to our cause? Stop going off on authorative random rants like on abortion (when we can't even get pregnant) and threads about breast cancer and breast removal. Instead, try explaining in a logical, and not "release the hounds because they're wrong" scattershot "strategy". It makes all look like idiots and makes me embarrassed to even post in this thread. Gaf is not your pulpit for trans issues.

I am not transgaf =P

If you don't like what I write feel free to put me on ignore list.... it is a gaming forum, even if I wanted we would not be able to make people view trans people in a broader light by acting like perfect people.

I write whatever I want as long as it is on topic and acording to the site guidelines (or against, if I want to take the consequences =P) .... it is MY profile.

If you don't like something than feel free to not to post it, but you can't do ANYTHING to make me not to post.

When people have genuine questions I answer then, but sorry if I am not a full time trans activist encyclopedia as you wished.

Being trans is just a small part of me.

Who said anything about "making people be on our side?"

Going into a thread about preventive breast cancer and making it about trans issues is not the best way to get people on our side.

You said =P

Platy I found your posts really antagonistic and unnecessary, in a thread about cancer no less. You didn't do anyone any favors.

Which is why I didn't posted more, but I just NEEDED to say my rant because last week a friend had the double mastectomy denied because he has "no existing problems" and looking at someone getting one with the same "no existing problems" was just enraging.

 

[Risette]

This goes for the rest of transgaf.

you talkin to me

 

[Devolution]

Which is why I didn't posted more, but I just NEEDED to say my rant because last week a friend had the double mastectomy denied because he has "no existing problems" and looking at someone getting one with the same "no existing problems" was just enraging.

I don't feel like that was the right place to vent that anger and especially not in the manner you did. It felt like an attack on the fact that she was able to get this done for herself. You can do what you want but it was just really unnecessary.

 

[Risette]

If you go into gaf and make non-trans issues into trans issues, yes.

that's not "transgaf" though, that's people who "go into gaf and make non-trans issues into trans issues"

two separate things

 

[Uraizen]

you talkin to me

Can I talk to you?

Spoiler

I ended up here and want to say hi.

 

[Village]

Hello, Trans gaf.

I need your help. If you can, a very close friend of mine who...I do not know what the phrasing would be .. I guess becoming a trans gender. God that sounds offensive.

Anyway, well he or I guess she now Is looking to me to be some type of support mechanism.

I honestly have no Idea what to do or what this job would exactly entail. I do not mind being there for friends, however this is rather new. Is there anything I should know or avoid.

I honestly know nothing about any of this, their coming to me was rather surprising in itself.

 

[Risette]

Can I talk to you?

Spoiler

I ended up here and want to say hi.

sure

Spoiler

where you been?

You're correct in that distinction.

I just didn't like the broad strokes painted because I always try my best to do the opposite but I am also part of TransGAF '~'

 

[DJ Crimson]

Yea

 

[Village]

Just explain to her that you're willing to help and support her if she ever needs it. Don't make a huge fuss about it and everything should be okay.

That is what I had been afraid off. I usually do not make a big fuss out of anything. This is rather new so I didn't know if the "its coo' " attitude would even be applicable.

 

[Uraizen]

sure

Spoiler

where you been?

Away for a bit.

Spoiler

Stupid project and being sick, I'll be back soon-ish, later!

 

[Platy]

that's not "transgaf" though, that's people who "go into gaf and make non-trans issues into trans issues"

two separate things

You're correct in that distinction.

Does people who for no reason say that "Poison is a dude" count on "make non-trans issues into trans issues" or counts the people who gets pissed to see their identity trown in the garbage that goes to correct the person be the one that "makes non-trans issues into trans issues" ? =P

 

[Brian Griffin]

Hello, Trans gaf.

I need your help. If you can, a very close friend of mine who...I do not know what the phrasing would be .. I guess becoming a trans gender. God that sounds offensive.

Anyway, well he or I guess she now Is looking to me to be some type of support mechanism.

I honestly have no Idea what to do or what this job would exactly entail. I do not mind being there for friends, however this is rather new. Is there anything I should know or avoid.

I honestly know nothing about any of this, their coming to me was rather surprising in itself.

You should start by reading though this thread and this one ---> Transgender Threads: A Primer to get a better understanding of what she is going through. It's a lot to take in but you will be a better person for it. Asking her questions about it could also be helpful for you and her. Let her know that you feel a bit out of your element but are prepared to learn and help her out in any way you can.

A couple other things:

People don't become transgender, they are transgender. "Transitioning" is the term used for the process of switching to the gender the person identifies as which is what it sounds like your friend is going to begin doing.

 

[Village]

You should start by reading though this thread and this one ---> Transgender Threads: A Primer to get a better understanding of what she is going through. It's a lot to take in but you will be a better person for it. Asking her questions about it could also be helpful for you and her. Let her know that you feel a bit out of your element but are prepared to learn and help her out in any way you can.

Thanks, reading through it now.

 

[yeoz]

this is probably a good time as any to remind people that the irc channel exists, and that we've got a fairly good bunch of regulars to chat with in there, if you have questions about transitioning.

you can PM me or fireside if you want the irc channel details.

 

[Femmeworth]

Lin, cut it with the policing crap. I know you hate being trans but don't take it out on us.

Edit: I'm being a bit unfair. Your criticisms have some merit, but you need to drop the tone.

 

[lexi]

I would agree in principal with not going into a thread about cancer and bringing up unrelated trans stuff. We have a perfectly good thread right here to bring up various topics and share our thoughts on any given subject.

 

[Jinfash]

If you don't like what I write feel free to put me on ignore list.... it is a gaming forum, even if I wanted we would not be able to make people view trans people in a broader light by acting like perfect people.

I write whatever I want as long as it is on topic and acording to the site guidelines (or against, if I want to take the consequences =P) .... it is MY profile.

If you don't like something than feel free to not to post it, but you can't do ANYTHING to make me not to post.

This is my first time posting in any transgaf thread, so I don't know who's trans, "transgaf" or otherwise. But I wanted to drop by to say that I found your posts in the Angelina Jolie thread were in poor taste.

Nobody can force you to write something or stop you from writing another, yes, but considering your activity in that thread I'm going to assume you deeply care about trans-issues and trans-acceptance. So based on that, I felt you were doing the cause a great disservice. I'm not even going to touch on how careless it was to turn that thread into a trans discussion, no, but I will on how you were feeding and perpetuating the growing stereotype of trans people on this site being unaccommodating and indignant, when you should be trying to do the opposite in order raise positive awareness (which, in all fairness, is the impression I generally get from this thread).

Again, nobody can force you to do anything, but being part of a minority (of a minority) means that others have limited exposure to your group, that they will look up to you as a representative even if unassigned. Everyone has that added responsibility of appropriately representing this community by default. Going on about "I am ME and I will say what *I* think, regardless of the repercussions" is incredibly selfish if not childish. Especially when the expressed views aren't grounded in reality and/or the context of other trans people's experiences. Everyone would be in a much better position if they take a step back every now and then to reevaluate themselves, rather than adamantly marching as if they have all the answers this world has to offer.

And with those two cents, ones that are genuinely coming from care and concern since I don't know anyone well enough to harbor ill-feelings, I bid everyone adieu. So carry on with the regular trans programming.

 

[Platy]

I would agree in principal with not going into a thread about cancer and bringing up unrelated trans stuff. We have a perfectly good thread right here to bring up various topics and share our thoughts on any given subject.

If we were to make tags about the thread it would be :

1) Angelina Jolie
2) Double Mastectomy
3) Cancer

You know what group is made ENTIRELY with people who do double mastectomy ?

Trans men and Humans with breast cancer in both breasts

You know what group is made ENTIRELY with people who want do a double mastectomy but somehow medics think they need to be sure and deny then a basic need unless they get psyquiatric evaluation that dificultates the entire process simply because they are afraid that the person might regret ?

Trans men.

I agree entirely it could be worded better because it was made in rage mode (which is, again, why I ignored the thread since then), but NOT A SINGLE SOUL will make me agree that it was unrelated to the topic.

It was a TOTAL cis privilege to say that she wanted to do the procedure and nobody asked if she was sure for YEARS.

I am STIL pissed about how the system works diferently in the same case.

If someone want a little more backstory, this is the wiki of Robert Eads :

Eads was counseled that he would not need to undergo a hysterectomy and oophorectomy as part of his sexual reassignment.
[..]
In 1996, after a severe bout of abdominal pain and vaginal bleeding, Eads sought emergency medical treatment, and received a diagnosis of ovarian cancer. However, more than two dozen doctors subsequently refused to treat Eads on the grounds that taking him on as a patient might harm their practice.

Dude was CONFIRMED for ovarian cancer and people STILL didn't wanted to take it out.

 

[Sibylus]

My opine is that while the subject of ftm mastectomy is really damned important, flying off the handle in a thread about a woman who took a preventative action is not the way to broach it. It can carry a topic and discussion all on its lonesome (and without lashing out in anger). It's a subject worth being angry about, but I think that anger is better channeled into advocacy instead of a public meltdown.

 

[Devolution]

My opine is that while the subject of ftm mastectomy is really damned important, flying off the handle in a thread about a woman who took a preventative action is not the way to broach it. It can carry a topic and discussion all on its lonesome (and without lashing out in anger). It's a subject worth being angry about, but I think that anger is better channeled into advocacy instead of a public meltdown.

I feel like it could deserve a thread of its own rather than taking a thread about cancer awareness and someone being proactive about their health into something else entirely.

 

[Risette]

transgaf is not a person

 

[Risette]

Are you really serious? Did you even READ the post Jinfash made? Transgaf, whether it's a person or not, is seen a tight ass group that is unaccommodating in its issues related to gender and trans-ness, as well as being outright juvenile in some cases such as Platy's attempt to steer Angelina Jolie's breast cancer preventive masectomy thread into a discussion on transgender rights.

When you speak for a group, especially for a minority, you become a representation of that group.

Welcome to being a minority. Are you new to this? More than that, we're not talking about any minority, like being black, or gay. We're talking about such a small minority that's maybe 1% of the population, which means we will ALWAYS be surrounded by a majority.

And I'm "policing" because I dare talk about people's perception of us as a group on this site?

cool but like I previously mentioned I don't contribute to that sort of behavior (in fact I do the opposite????) yet I'm still a member of transgaf. as you can see, it doesn't really need a Holy Savior of Our Reputation. some members post in certain ways and some others in different ways. if you don't like the way some post, then call them out on it in the same place it happens (like I do) and then you, as a representative of that minority (as you said), add another voice to the mix of representation and possibly counter their poor representation.... woah

also please never quote me and include a tumblr gif grotesquerie ever again

 

[Jinfash]

if you don't like the way some post, then call them out on it in the same place it happens (like I do) and then you, as a representative of that minority (as you said), add another voice to the mix of representation and possibly counter their poor representation.... woah

+1

Though I think that's exactly what Lin and others already did here (i.e. calling out). I stopped reading the Angelina thread shortly after the crazy got out of hand though.

 

[Risette]

+1

Though I think that's exactly what Lin and others already did here (i.e. calling out). I stopped reading the Angelina thread shortly after the crazy got out of hand though.

Well, emphasis on it being where it happens: so it becomes part of that discussion where it happened. Otherwise the perception issue remains, I think, because in that discussion there will just be that voice and none to counter it. Putting it back here for Some Reason just seems bizarre to me.

I can perhaps understand a concern for thread derailing, but uh, I guess as long as it's somewhat relevant it's okay? Dunno.

 

[Risette]

Because it would further dilute a thread and drive it even further off topic, and no, it was not relevant. Here is the best thread for it. Of course, making a thread about the perception of Transgaf could offer up more "interesting" opinions, but who wants to go through that?

do it

 

[Dr.Palutena]

+1

Though I think that's exactly what Lin and others already did here (i.e. calling out). I stopped reading the Angelina thread shortly after the crazy got out of hand though.

Well I don't think anyone here is disagreeing that going into threads about close to anything ,particularly about people getting potentially life saving surgeries and ranting about cis-hetero-normativity and people being insensitive and how unfair society is or whatever is anything but tactless and counterproductive. But Lin expresses this with a heaping of awful tone, broad sweeping generalizations, obnoxiousness and enough self-loathing to completely sour any point she may have in here or to turn it into "You trannies* are cramping my style with the normal folks" . I personally can attest to and advocate the idea that whether one wants to or not, that ones opinions for such a small group can affect the perceptions of the whole, and that over aggressiveness and an indignant attitude can ruin a message.But Lin could have learnt a thing of two about both of these things before coming in here to complain. I've more or less quit going into trans news threads because I've come to realize I'm not patient enough to be this person and instead just aim to be a positive trans representative here when people come to ask questions and by taking part in community threads.

* I apologize for using this word, but I had a point to make.

 

[lexi]

Meh, wouldn't that be best left for Lexi?

I'm not the supreme commander of transgaf, and also perhaps not as involved as I used to be. If anybody here feels the desire to make that thread and canvas opinions, I give my blessing.

 

[mollipen]

This goes for the rest of transgaf.

Oh look—this again.

 

[Junpei Heat]

Does anyone have any updates on their transition? Rather than the typical policing/privilege/etc talk that tends to happen in here.

 

[lexi]

Does anyone have any updates on their transition? Rather than the typical policing/privilege/etc talk that tends to happen in here.

I remember when the thread was about that stuff!

 

[DJ Crimson]

Yea

 

[mollipen]

Please be mindful outside of this thread, for the continual perception and respect for trans people everywhere which is already pretty fucking low to begin with. When you're a minority that's 1-2% of the population, you are ALWAYS an ambassador.

The problem with your saying this to me is that, nearly every time a trans topic comes up here on NeoGAF and non-trans people collide with those who are trans and discussions/arguments come up, whenever I get involved I'm typically pointed out as being one of the more level-headed from those talking in defense of the trans side. Because I am. Because I DO understand the perceptions, DO want people to learn more about who we really are, DO want people to not shut down to the arguments being presented and hopefully actually learn something about a group they don't know enough about, and DO have a differet approach to how these topics should be handled.

(However, for those who are upset, are outspoken in their beliefs, are militant in saying what they say, or whatever else, I understand why they are that way.)

Go look at trans-related threads where I've been involved. I invite you to do so. I'm not saying this in a way to brag or have an ego or offer up myself as some sort of great representative or anything - I'm simply stating the truth of the situation.

And yet, here we are again, with you making statement where you come off as having no problem throwing an entire group of people under the bus - yourself excluded. I'm not saying you're wrong in your opinions on how trans people are seen by some on here - ive made some of the EXACT points that you are when it was the proper time and place - I'm saying that you seem to have no ability at times to bring up the issues that you have without coming off like you're above us all and wish we would all just fall in like to your wants.

Just like what you did in the Girl's thread.

If you have issues with people, bring it up in PMs. If somebody is out of line in a thread, tell a mod. If you've got concerns about the perceptions of transgaf as a group, bring those concerns up in a way that isn't "I'm right, you're wrong, start doing what I say."

Nobody speak for all of transgaf, or any *gaf, or any group anywhere, and we are not an all-connected collective. We are all individuals with our own opinions and personalities and ways of doing things. None of us like the idea of people outside of the community stereotyping us as lumping us together as one whole when doing that stereotyping, so I sure as hell don't like that when it comes from inside of the community.

And that's all I'll say to all of this, so that I'm not helping to keep this thread continuing to be off track.

 

[Platy]

Besides the fact that 90% of gaf don't even know this thread exists and don't know who is trans and who is not.

Maybe Emi because she is in every non-forum gaf community ever ... but then again I really doubt people see a post and goes "omfg this is a tranny posting about abortion lol wut he don't even have an uterus LOL" =P

Also ... please TELL ME nobody here gets hot blooded when they read stuffs like this :

Capcom has been pretty open about Poison being trans in recent media

There's no question about it.

would still refer to her as a she!

 

[Vortex566]

This thread really is really inspirational. I think it's great that you don't let anyone or anything stand in your way.

 

[Sibylus]

Does anyone have any updates on their transition? Rather than the typical policing/privilege/etc talk that tends to happen in here.

Waiting. I'm probably an expert by now.

 

[Hop]

Transition is like war. Occasional bursts of action surrounded by a lot of waiting for something to happen.

For me, I'm stressing about being a trans girl traveling cross-country in unfamiliar and potentially hostile territory. And stressing about how I'll handle keeping hormones flowing during the change in job and insurance and location and all that. But apparently my new job is fully willing to be supportive and accommodating, which is a nice middle finger to my parents.